Eir rural FTTH thread II

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

They differ depending on if it gets brought in overhead or underground. Even with another pole, you still have the option to bring it in underground. If you want to. You would have to supply the ducting for that of course.

The overhead cable is extremely thin and flimsy. Less than 3mm.

The underground cable is 1 inch or more. Would need to look it up.

/M

25mm? More than 3 times the diameter of the distribution cable?

Marlow

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

25mm? More than 3 times the diameter of the distribution cable?

Yep. It's at least the size of the distribution cable. There is a reason, that they call for an absolute minimum internal diameter of 32mm and there isn't a whole lot space left, when they bring the cable through.

I was quite puzzled, the first time i saw that. With SIRO it's a thin cable in ducting and a much larger diameter cable overhead.

/M

Marlow

Big Wex fan wrote: »

That's grand, i can get stuck in to getting ready then. What's the cable diameter?

Marlow wrote: »

The underground cable is 1 inch or more. Would need to look it up.

Back home now. Looked it up. The ducting guideline calls for a minimum internal diameter of 32mm.

Preferable 50mm.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

Yep. It's at least the size of the distribution cable. There is a reason, that they call for an absolute minimum internal diameter of 32mm and there isn't a whole lot space left, when they bring the cable through.

I was quite puzzled, the first time i saw that. With SIRO it's a thin cable in ducting and a much larger diameter cable overhead.

/M

The distribution cable is 8.3mm diameter though so 25mm seems excessive but I haven't actually seen the underground cable.

Marlow

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

The distribution cable is 8.3mm diameter though so 25mm seems excessive but I haven't actually seen the underground cable.

It's thicker than that for sure. The distribution cable is designed to be used overground and underground.

The access cable for underground only has 2 fibres (like the overhead one), but it's got a massive mantle. There's a reason, that they can't get it into some of the smaller ducts.

/M

Johnboy1951

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

The distribution cable is 8.3mm diameter though so 25mm seems excessive but I haven't actually seen the underground cable.

Marlow wrote: »

It's thicker than that for sure. The distribution cable is designed to be used overground and underground.

The access cable for underground only has 2 fibres (like the overhead one), but it's got a massive mantle. There's a reason, that they can't get it into some of the smaller ducts.

/M

I reported earlier in this thread that from memory the underground cable from DP into my home was close to 9mm.
It could indeed have been 8mm or 10mm ..... but not as much as 12mm (1/2").
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108180114&postcount=3613

I did not take a vernier to the bit of cable I had before I gave it to a friend, so I don't have the exact size unfortunately.

I reckon it was somewhere close to 9mm in diameter.

It consists of two strands of fibre in a twin plastic covering, surrounded by padding, enclosed in a plastic lined full metal sheath (aluminium I think) and the whole lot covered by a very strong thick plastic covering.
(above by memory).

I would imagine a 1/2" pex pipe would be suitable ...... but larger would be better to allow for securely attaching the fibre cable to the pull rope.

In addition I would poke the pex pipe through any hole you drill at either end to ensure the cable does not chaff going through the hole.
It can always be pushed back in after installation, if required.

tsue921i8wljb3

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I reported earlier in this thread that from memory the underground cable from DP into my home was close to 9mm.
It could indeed have been 8mm or 10mm ..... but not as much as 12mm (1/2").
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108180114&postcount=3613

That would make more sense. 25mm diameter cable is absolutely massive. Make a 1 inch circle with your finger and thumb to give an idea of scale.

Johnboy1951

As an aside ..... With the fibre completely exposed, I was very very surprised at how sharply the single fibre strand could be bent before it snapped.
In fact I had to deliberately pinch the bend closed in order to achieve breakage.
I was able to bend the fibre strand back on itself very sharply without braking it.
While holding it in this position, I had to use my other hand to pinch hard on the bend to break the fibre.

With the fibre still encased in its coverings, I could also bend it back on itself without physical damage.

So to me this cable and fibre is very robust indeed.

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

So to me this cable and fibre is very robust indeed.

I've only seen 2 underground installations and it was a guestimate. So you're probably spot on.

But yes .. a ducted installation should always be preferred because a) the fibre not being exposed and b) that cable is not easily the destroyed.

The overhead cable on the other hand is extremely flimsy. I've seen some needing replacing after less than a year.

/M

Big Wex fan

The ducking is not really an option due to cost. I live 100 metres down a lane and then digging up at front of the house, my better half would have a melt down. I have a 'duct' for the phone line _ 3/4 inch pipe fitted during the house build but too small. Hate the thoughts of an ugly wire attached to house but will have to get used to it. Why use such a narrow overhead cable? Does sound like a recipe for regular call outs!

m99T

Big Wex fan wrote: »

The ducking is not really an option due to cost. I live 100 metres down a lane and then digging up at front of the house, my better half would have a melt down. I have a 'duct' for the phone line _ 3/4 inch pipe fitted during the house build but too small. Hate the thoughts of an ugly wire attached to house but will have to get used to it. Why use such a narrow overhead cable? Does sound like a recipe for regular call outs!

Does your phone line cable have a draw rope in it? You might get an installer who feels comfortable using it, or even using the existing copper as a draw rope to pull fibre through. Depends, but you might.

For reference too this is (Apologies for the quality) what the UG cable looks like in a 32mm duct.



As far as I remember it was 8mm.

Just checked what cable clips were used, I remember they fitted exactly.

Cable was 7mm.

fritzelly

The techs are not allowed to remove the copper line - if they do they can get in trouble.

m99T

fritzelly wrote: »

The techs are not allowed to remove the copper line - if they do they can get in trouble.

I've seen them do it, if you slip them 20 quid they are likely to do whatever you want. I was able to get the cable panned out before an install so I could do some interesting runs with it through a house for a brown envelope.

To be fair to them the reps are worse. Donegal rep put on the order that a monitored alarm was in the house when there wasn't even a phone line because it bumps the install to the top of the list (They assume if there is a phone line then there is a duct and everything is just easier).

Marlow

You're in Donegal....

Please consider that doesn't work in any other country

/M

fritzelly

m99T wrote: »

To be fair to them the reps are worse. Donegal rep put on the order that a monitored alarm was in the house when there wasn't even a phone line because it bumps the install to the top of the list (They assume if there is a phone line then there is a duct and everything is just easier).

Say what? When an order is placed it will tell you if there is a line to the house - that don't make sense unless someone is BS'ing you.

m99T

Marlow wrote: »

You're in Donegal....

Please consider that doesn't work in any other country

/M

You have a very fair point there.

Up the whild whest

m99T

fritzelly wrote: »

Say what? When an order is placed it will tell you if there is a line to the house - that don't make sense unless someone is BS'ing you.

The Rep that I used to get installs 3 or 4 times with Eir would come to the house and no matter what stick down that the house had a monitored alarm on the application. I pulled him up on it and he said putting that down makes them think there is some sort of phone line. Some sort of phone line means there is a duct to a pole.

I have no idea if it works but he does it anyway. I can only assume it does because the installs all seemed to be setup very quick. Maybe 3-4 days max.

fritzelly

3-4 days install time is normal lol, your man is an idiot

m99T

fritzelly wrote: »

3-4 days install time is normal lol, your man is an idiot

Yeah that's true. He is.

I mean 3-4 days before site visit after the application by the way, not 3 or 4 days over all install time.

Marlow

m99T wrote: »

Yeah that's true. He is.

I mean 3-4 days before site visit after the application by the way, not 3 or 4 days over all install time.

Any order placed requires 4 work days advance notice.

Its procedure.

/M

fritzelly

Marlow wrote: »

Any order placed requires 4 work days advance notice.

Its procedure.

/M

Three days - if you ordered Monday the appointment would be for Thursday (depending on some factors). Or do you count that as four days...

Marlow

fritzelly wrote: »

Three days - if you ordered Monday the appointment would be for Thursday (depending on some factors). Or do you count that as four days...

Yup. That's generally 4 calendar days.

/M

Andy From Sligo

You know someone was saying earlier on that the fibre strands ar e quite robust and that you can bent them back a fair bit before they break, how about if there is a bend in these , would data be lost/slow down? Because its light that travels and I have always heard that saying that light cannot bend round corners

ED E

If you "kink" it data flow stops. It'll be a case of working working working dead, no degradation curve.

Andy From Sligo

ED E wrote: »

If you "kink" it data flow stops. It'll be a case of working working working dead, no degradation curve.

ah right yeah its that because its digital system isnt it? 0's and 1's . either on or off ... whereas at least with analog the signal can deteriorate but still carry on working (to a point)

ED E

Its simpler than that. The light bounces from side to side. Too sharp a turn and that process fails so the far end will go dark.

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

ah right yeah its that because its digital system isnt it? 0's and 1's .

All broadband systems are digital. Analog would mean voice.

But the way to compare it, is optical vs. electrical.

As ED E pointed out, with optical systems it either works or it doesn't. As long as light can be passed, everything is ok.

With electrical systems (still digital), the resistance goes up. So it may slow down before it dies because the equipment either side tries to compensate for the issue in between. That's still a digital process.

/M

Andy From Sligo

OK thanks - but taking that into consideration what would be classed the most reliable out of the 2 fibre optic or ADSL2/VDSL through copper ? - what (if any) would give more trouble or could give more problems than the other because of their different technology?

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

OK thanks - but taking that into consideration what would be classed the most reliable out of the 2 fibre optic or ADSL2/VDSL through copper ? - what (if any) would give more trouble or could give more problems than the other because of their different technology?

- We're at the end bandwidth wise of what can be done on copper, while we haven't even utilized 1% of what can be done on fibre.
- Copper corrodes, which leads to degradation of the connection. Fibre doesn't.
- Both of them can break.
- The power consumption for operating a copper network (for the operator) is a lot higher than with a fibre network
- An electrical copper line can be hit by lightning and there is risk, that your house can burn down. With fibre there is no such risk.

Just a few minor differences. There are lots more.

/M

Big Wex fan

There is no rope in it anymore, I asked could he not use the present phone cable to feed the new cable thru but he just said no pipe to narrow. I was talking to a couple of lads who suggested putting in my own feeder cable and then tell them to use that. Suggested use a vacuum and plastic to pull light wire through. Sounds a bit mad but apparently works. If I've couple of weeks until they come with pole then I might give it a go.

7mm fibre as well as the phone cable in 18mm duct should be doable.