Eir rural FTTH thread II

Marlow

Big Wex fan wrote: »

There is no rope in it anymore, I asked could he not use the present phone cable to feed the new cable thru but he just said no

He is not allowed, by law, to remove the old phone cable. There is legislation, that prevents OpenEIR from removing the copper line. It has to remain there for other service providers to use.

So the only way, you'd work that one, is that you pull a rope through using the phone line. If it's gone, it's gone. But KN can't touch it.

/M

Johnboy1951

Marlow wrote: »

He is not allowed, by law, to remove the old phone cable. There is legislation, that prevents OpenEIR from removing the copper line. It has to remain there for other service providers to use.

So the only way, you'd work that one, is that you pull a rope through using the phone line. If it's gone, it's gone. But KN can't touch it.

/M

... or

attach a rope to the end of the copper cable, pull out the copper and rope, attach a second rope to the copper cable and use the first rope to pull in the copper cable again, with new rope attached, which can be used to pull in the fibre cable alongside the existing copper cable.

Yes it is twice the work, but achieves everything .....

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Yes it is twice the work, but achieves everything .....

only if you ever want to use that copper line again.

/M

Peppa Cig

Marlow wrote: »

only if you ever want to use that copper line again.

/M

“Copper is Dead - Long Live Fibre”

Johnboy1951

Marlow wrote: »

only if you ever want to use that copper line again.

/M

... or someone else does ...... and also avoids the possibility of accusation of theft!

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

... and also avoids the possibility of accusation of theft!

Do you know what the chances of that are ? OpenEir doesn't even know where half of their ducts are. Never mind if there us copper or fiber in them.

And then there is those other people. You can be sure they get to the copper before you.

/M

Big Wex fan

The deal is fibre and phone, do they need the copper wire or is the phone thru the fibre now? If thru the fibre only, then fect it, pull 2 cords thru for the fibre and a back up.

Johnboy1951

Marlow wrote: »

Do you know what the chances of that are ? OpenEir doesn't even know where half of their ducts are. Never mind if there us copper or fiber in them.

And then there is those other people. You can be sure they get to the copper before you.

/M

So you advise theft. :rolleyes:


Nice one!

Johnboy1951

Big Wex fan wrote: »

The deal is fibre and phone, do they need the copper wire or is the phone thru the fibre now? If thru the fibre only, then fect it, pull 2 cords thru for the fibre and a back up.

My connections use both ...... phone by copper and broadband by fibre.

Johnboy1951

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

My connections use both ...... phone by copper and broadband by fibre.

So does mine, I expect that some time in the near future, OE will initiate the plan to retire copper. Then we will be "advised" to connect the phone into the analogue port of the modem and the copper line be disconnected.

I would imagine that a contractor like KN would be visiting all the remaining properties that only have copper to replace their lines with fibre.

Do they have a modem that only does PSTN phones?

fritzelly

Copper is not going anywhere for a long time yet - you can even have VOBB on a copper (FTTC) line, it's not only fibre.
OE just want the requirement to provide a copper line removed from the USO. It's not possible to order just a phone line over FTTH

Andy From Sligo

fritzelly wrote: »

Copper is not going anywhere for a long time yet - you can even have VOBB on a copper (FTTC) line, it's not only fibre.
OE just want the requirement to provide a copper line removed from the USO. It's not possible to order just a phone line over FTTH

isnt it in OE's/eircom/eir interest to retire copper system as soon as they can so they can retire the electricity in the DSLams (or whatever they are called) or cabinets / excanges - and save all that money on power and pass the savings onto the customer (highly unlikely) or pocket the savings in electricity themselves?

yep they should retire the copper and take down all the existing copper on the poles and undergroud and sell it all off wholesale and make a nice tidy profit and make everyone use VOIP over FTTH

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

So you advise theft. :rolleyes:

Nice one!

I actually don't. Because by definition, once the copper is on private property it doesn't seem to be owned by OpenEir anyhow.

They can either claim ownership and maintain the duct end to end and fix the ducting problems within said property OR it's owned by whoever owns the property and let the owner do whatever they want to do with it.

The legal obligation just states they can't interfere with it.

Thats all I pointed out.

They literally have no legal repercussions on the owner removing the copper due to their own interpretation of boundaries. Hence my suggestions.

/M

Marlow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do they have a modem that only does PSTN phones?

OpenEir are in the process of introducing a VoIP/VoBB only 256 kbit/s only profile on fibre. Converting from fibre to traditional PSTN within the customer profile will be a minor issue.

So . Don't worry about that part.

/M

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

I actually don't. Because by definition, once the copper is on private property it doesn't seem to be owned by OpenEir anyhow.

They can either claim ownership and maintain the duct end to end and fix the ducting problems within said property OR it's owned by whoever owns the property and let the owner do whatever they want to do with it.

The legal obligation just states they can't interfere with it.

Thats all I pointed out.

They literally have no legal repercussions on the owner removing the copper due to their own interpretation of boundaries. Hence my suggestions.

/M

didnt it used to be in the old days of telecom eireann / eircom the case that the consumer/householder touch or do any work on any of the cable that preceded the main master socket and it was the property of TE/eircom regardless of whether it was on your private property or not? and that the consumer could only do something to the wiring after the master socket only? - I think it was against the law because you could damage the infrastructure on the telephone network if you touched the wiring before the master socket.

paleoperson

Finally should be able to enjoy fast-paced online gaming at non-ungodly hours.

Too bad it didn't happen many years ago.

Johnboy1951

Marlow wrote: »

I actually don't. Because by definition, once the copper is on private property it doesn't seem to be owned by OpenEir anyhow.

They can either claim ownership and maintain the duct end to end and fix the ducting problems within said property OR it's owned by whoever owns the property and let the owner do whatever they want to do with it.

The legal obligation just states they can't interfere with it.

Thats all I pointed out.

They literally have no legal repercussions on the owner removing the copper due to their own interpretation of boundaries. Hence my suggestions.

/M

To take anything which you do not own ...... and no householder can claim ownership of the telecom cable ..... is theft.
It matters not a whit who else might own it or claim ownership, it is quite clear to everyone that the householder does not own the cable.
Neither does it matter what others might do ..... just like claiming 'but my neighbour broke the speed limit' is no excuse when you do so.

So, yes, to take the cable is theft.
In addition, to so take, the cable must necessarily be disconnected from the telecoms infrastructure, and to do so would also be 'interference'.

No matter what way it seems to you, you have advocated theft of and interference with the telecoms infrastructure.

Andy From Sligo

a New month .... lets see now if I will actually be able to order FTTH - I try to keep so positive, I see those shiny new 3M distribution boxes on the poles and the fibre cable running from pole to pole and keep telling myself "not long now!" ...

turbbo

Yep - another month and so a month behind build commencement here. The planned times seem to be well behind all over the country.

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

No matter what way it seems to you, you have advocated theft of and interference with the telecoms infrastructure.

Your view on this is extremely narrow. But either way, you're wrong. Because all I suggested was to remove the cable. Not to take it and re-use it or throw it out.

It would only be theft, if you then re-used it, or took it away, etc. You could always coil it up either end.

Either way, that narrow view, that you're showing here will not help anyone nor the discussion here.

And in regards to telecoms infrastructure, I've already pointed out, that obviously even OpenEIRs perspective on this has changed. Because if it was telecoms infrastructure, they would also have to maintain the ducting. If they took that matter to the court of law, they'd find them fighting a loosing battle. They are after all not the incumbent anymore. They also lost a lot of rights with that privatization.

/M

Johnboy1951

Marlow wrote: »

Your view on this is extremely narrow. But either way, you're wrong. Because all I suggested was to remove the cable. Not to take it and re-use it or throw it out.

It would only be theft, if you then re-used it, or took it away, etc. You could always coil it up either end.

Either way, that narrow view, that you're showing here will not help anyone nor the discussion here.

And in regards to telecoms infrastructure, I've already pointed out, that obviously even OpenEIRs perspective on this has changed. Because if it was telecoms infrastructure, they would also have to maintain the ducting. If they took that matter to the court of law, they'd find them fighting a loosing battle. They are after all not the incumbent anymore. They also lost a lot of rights with that privatization.

/M

I already provided a solution which returned the telecoms infrastructure to its original state.
That is what you objected to.
Yes that was interference also, but not a permanent one, and did not involve theft of property, regardless the owner.

There is a lot of value in the copper cables throughout the country, which no doubt the owner will hope to recover when it is not needed.

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

That is what you objected to.

Is that where your problem is ?

I didn't object to it. I just pointed out, that the copper line is not needed anymore in reality.

On top of that, the copper line is a fire hazard. The majority of lightning damage to houses come through the phone line. By leaving it in place, when you don't need it anymore, you're taking that risk. What's worth more ? That unused telecoms infrastructure or your house and livelyhood ?

/M

Johnboy1951

Marlow wrote: »

Is that where your problem is ?

I didn't object to it. I just pointed out, that the copper line is not needed anymore in reality.

On top of that, the copper line is a fire hazard. The majority of lightning damage to houses come through the phone line. By leaving it in place, when you don't need it anymore, you're taking that risk. What's worth more ? That unused telecoms infrastructure or your house and livelyhood ?

/M

Hahahahahaha, now you are getting ridiculous.
An unused copper cable buried in the ground is going to be a fire-hazard in the home

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Hahahahahaha, now you are getting ridiculous.
An unused copper cable buried in the ground is going to be a fire-hazard in the home

Actually not. It's still energized from the exchange, even when it's inactive. Hence you can plug a phone in and dial 19800 to figure out, what the number is.

And that means, you can still get your phone socket blown off the wall on the next lightning strike. I've seen that happening. More than once.

/M

shigllgetcha

Got a call with 20 mins notice that the hoist would be there. Was in dubai but my mother was around to meet them

Took 40 mins and all installed

Atleast i didnt have to wait too long after the failed install last week

leex

Marlow wrote: »

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Hahahahahaha, now you are getting ridiculous.
An unused copper cable buried in the ground is going to be a fire-hazard in the home

And that means, you can still get your phone socket blown off the wall on the next lightning strike. I've seen that happening. More than once.

/M

Happened in my own house last year. Line inactive. Socket blown to bits.

fritzelly

That can happen with anything tbh, aerial etc

editorsean

This happened with a neighbour a couple of years ago. This was the remains of the socket:



She said it sounded like a fire cracker went off in the hallway. Sparks flew out from her PC, which went out with a puff of smoke. This was connected to the Eir router with a network cable. It also blew her printer and a few other electronic items, likely due to the surge being carried along the mains as it made its way to ground. The telephone wiring was all charred. Luckily nothing caught fire.

I know a few others that had lightning damage, however it mainly just blew the router and their (cordless) phone. Usually the phone / DSL sockets remained intact and they just needed to replace their router and phone. Surprisingly it's been a long time since I heard someone with lightning damage via their electrical wiring or TV/satellite antenna.

fritzelly

editorsean wrote: »

I know a few others that had lightning damage, however it mainly just blew the router and their (cordless) phone. Usually the phone / DSL sockets remained intact and they just needed to replace their router and phone. Surprisingly it's been a long time since I heard someone with lightning damage via their electrical wiring or TV/satellite antenna.

The copper covers a lot more area so more chance of being hit than your aerial. But its still there - I wonder does underground copper have more of a chance of being hit...

fritzelly

fritzelly wrote: »

The copper covers a lot more area so more chance of being hit than your aerial. But its still there - I wonder does underground copper have more of a chance of being hit...

I would imagine the risk is where it leaves the duct and goes up the pole, it would be at greatest risk if it is physically disconnected somewhere overhead.
It can then build up a charge.