Eir rural FTTH thread II

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I have got 2 routers at the moment a Belkin N150 I bought for 30quid and a Vodafone HG658c (unlocked with O2 firmware) - can i not just put the grey ethernet cable from the ONT into the WAN socket of the HG658 or Belkin and choose DHCP and away I go???

If the router does not do VLAN tagging on the WAN interface it will not work. I don't know if either of those routers do it. Check the settings.

Marlow

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

I think you're wrong about that. It seems to only apply to FTTH lines (paths) which were first provisioned after the effective date (01/01/2019).

That could be. But probably more for practical reasons, as OpenEIR doesn't have the records to show when the line originally was build.

/M

Andy From Sligo

oh bugger I stand corrected then - I will have to look if any of theose routers have VLAN tagging then , I dont recall seeing that setting - thats a shame because I was hoping to carry on using the HG658c router I am currently using at the moment - thanks for that info

Johnboy1951

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

I think you're wrong about that. It seems to only apply to FTTH lines (paths) which were first provisioned after the effective date (01/01/2019).

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=107996404&postcount=3113

That would imply that any connections made prior to Jan 2019 will not have a reimbursement payment, and so subsequent providers should not ever have to take on part of that charge, so those customers should, in theory, get 'free transfers' to new providers thereafter. (except for some small connection fee I suppose).

Maybe it will encourage eir to give those customers a good deal when renewing ... hahahahahahahaha!

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Maybe it will encourage eir to give those customers a good deal when renewing ... hahahahahahahaha!

Unlikely. It'll more be the case of more profit to the provider.

/M

fritzelly

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Maybe it will encourage eir to give those customers a good deal when renewing ... hahahahahahahaha!

You're forgetting that OE and Eir are the same group so at the end of the day it don't really matter - just a case of which bank account has the money

Johnboy1951

fritzelly wrote: »

You're forgetting that OE and Eir are the same group so at the end of the day it don't really matter - just a case of which bank account has the money

I'm not sure what you mean ....... eir have already paid the due amount, and the customer has also ..... so the only way eir has of recovering that 'discount' they gave the customer is to keep them as a customer.

fritzelly

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean ....... eir have already paid the due amount, and the customer has also ..... so the only way eir has of recovering that 'discount' they gave the customer is to keep them as a customer.

Eir have paid OE - the money is still within the group - nothing lost, nothing spent, nothing gained. When Vodafone, Airwire etc pay it's left their company and is money eir have gained. Comprende?

Johnboy1951

fritzelly wrote: »

Eir have paid OE - the money is still within the group - nothing lost, nothing spent, nothing gained. When Vodafone, Airwire etc pay it's left their company and is money eir have gained. Comprende?

The point you seem to miss is that any subsequent provider will not have to pay anything as the original connection was made prior to the Jan 2019 arrangement when the first installer took on the whole cost of that first install.

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The point you seem to miss is that any subsequent provider will not have to pay anything as the original connection was made prior to the Jan 2019 arrangement when the first installer took on the whole cost of that first install.

That's less than 20% of the rollout atm (the uptake on OE is currently under 20% of passed homes). And after 1.1.2019, that figure will get smaller by every year. To a provider it makes more sense to take that profit and offset it against the loss on other connections.

There is no real incentive to make a special deal to the consumer based on that factor. The consumer doesn't even know, if their home is eligable or not, nor will have access to that data. (in most of the cases)

/M

tuxy

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

oh bugger I stand corrected then - I will have to look if any of theose routers have VLAN tagging then , I dont recall seeing that setting - thats a shame because I was hoping to carry on using the HG658c router I am currently using at the moment - thanks for that info

I have the HG658c but it still has the vodafones firmware and there is no option to enable vlan tagging on the wan port.

fritzelly

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The point you seem to miss is that any subsequent provider will not have to pay anything as the original connection was made prior to the Jan 2019 arrangement when the first installer took on the whole cost of that first install.

The point is they can now offset any costs by eir retail for installs against other providers and make more money for the group
Currently if someone signs up with eir there is a 250 install charge, move to another provider there is a nominal charge for a new install. Under the new scheme the new provider will pay a sliding scale of the charge to OE reimbursed back to eir in most cased. Win win for eir as a group

helimachoptor

fritzelly wrote: »

Only right - Sky have always been sneaky about this kind of thing. Pushing people to eir to get connected then telling them they can move to them when it's installed. Never heard stories about anyone else, well a little bit about Vodafone but think that was more uneducated sales people.

Also I would expect this latest post from sky is just some testing rather than an indication of a market strategy.

The Cush

fritzelly wrote: »

I would be surprised if this is not an eir retail incentive where they are paying for the install and subsequently losing customers but they need to recoup that money to make eir retail look more profitable.
But I do think it is a more equitable solution

Marlow wrote: »

No. This will be applied to all installations. The start date is, when the installation was physically put in place.


Yes .. that's the corner where it came from. They simply made too big losses on offering free install and customers then moving provider after 12 months.

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

I think it's a result of ALTO complaining about the installation fees and pushing Comreg to intervene but apparently ALTO are still not happy with this outcome.

This was one of the issue raised Comreg's Pricing of Wholesale Services in the Wholesale Local Access (WLA) market consultation back in April 2017 and this appears to be fix for the issue.
https://www.comreg.ie/publication/pricing-wholesale-services-wholesale-local-access-wla-market-wholesale-central-access-markets/

Have a read through section 13.2, Recovery of connection costs for CGA / NGA services.

For connection costs associated with current generation and next generation services, we propose that Eircom should recover the costs through a combination of an upfront connection charge and a monthly rental charge.

We propose that those costs that are incurred each time an end user migrates from one retail service provider (‘RSP’) to another should be recovered on the basis of an upfront connection charge. Other costs, such as the costs of the service lead (underground or overhead fibre), the optical network terminal (‘ONT’) in the end user’s premises or the costs of all poles, ducts and boxes on public roads, should be recovered as part of the ongoing rental charge in line with the economic life of the asset.

Johnboy1951

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The point you seem to miss is that any subsequent provider will not have to pay anything as the original connection was made prior to the Jan 2019 arrangement when the first installer took on the whole cost of that first install.

Marlow wrote: »

That's less than 20% of the rollout atm (the uptake on OE is currently under 20% of passed homes). And after 1.1.2019, that figure will get smaller by every year. To a provider it makes more sense to take that profit and offset it against the loss on other connections.

There is no real incentive to make a special deal to the consumer based on that factor. The consumer doesn't even know, if their home is eligable or not, nor will have access to that data. (in most of the cases)

/M

You might well be correct, and the alternative providers will take the 'extra' and pocket it.

Home eligible?
Besides the date of connection (prior to new arrangement 2019) what other criteria would apply?

It seems straight forward ...... if your connection was invoiced prior to Jan 2019 then subsequent providers do not have to pay the first provider any 'reimbursement' charge.

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You might well be correct, and the alternative providers will take the 'extra' and pocket it.

Home eligible?
Besides the date of connection (prior to new arrangement 2019) what other criteria would apply?

It seems straight forward ...... if your connection was invoiced prior to Jan 2019 then subsequent providers do not have to pay the first provider any 'reimbursement' charge.

It's not that easy. On every disconnect/reconnect the internal phone number may change. Also, the UAN can change even mid term, if the product is changed.

There is a unique identifier, but OpenEir does not use that for "billing" purposes.

They are introducing a new field, that will contain the first installation date. But their database is a massive mess as it is. It's not going to get any better.

Why do you thing the prequal data is so hit and miss? The providers are making a massive effort to get a usable database, and hence not everybody pulls the data set every week. Not even Eir retail.

/M

Johnboy1951

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You might well be correct, and the alternative providers will take the 'extra' and pocket it.

Home eligible?
Besides the date of connection (prior to new arrangement 2019) what other criteria would apply?

It seems straight forward ...... if your connection was invoiced prior to Jan 2019 then subsequent providers do not have to pay the first provider any 'reimbursement' charge.

Marlow wrote: »

It's not that easy. On every disconnect/reconnect the internal phone number may change. Also, the UAN can change even mid term, if the product is changed.

There is a unique identifier, but OpenEir does not use that for "billing" purposes.

They are introducing a new field, that will contain the first installation date. But their database is a massive mess as it is. It's not going to get any better.

Why do you thing the prequal data is so hit and miss? The providers are making a massive effort to get a usable database, and hence not everybody pulls the data set every week. Not even Eir retail.

/M

I think maybe you were answering some other post.

Andy From Sligo

tuxy wrote: »

I have the HG658c but it still has the vodafones firmware and there is no option to enable vlan tagging on the wan port.

just found a HG659 in the cupboard - vodafone sent it out to me (when I had ADSL in another house and they thought I had a problem with the 658, but it wasnt and they didnt want it back , told me to hang onto it) - I think that has tagging option on it - but that would be locked with vodafone firmware - I wonder if that would work with any provider FTTH ?

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

just found a HG659 in the cupboard - vodafone sent it out to me (when I had ADSL in another house and they thought I had a problem with the 658, but it wasnt and they didnt want it back , told me to hang onto it) - I think that has tagging option on it - but that would be locked with vodafone firmware - I wonder if that would work with any provider FTTH ?

The eir F2000 that is used for FTTH is a rebadged 659. Here is a picture of the WAN interface of mine. If yours is similar it should work. You do realise you're likely going to get a supplied router with whatever ISP you go with?

tuxy

"Andy wrote:

I wonder if that would work with any provider FTTH ?

Maybe in some other country but as far as I know both open Eir and Siro use vlan for ftth.

tuxy

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

You do realise you're likely going to get a supplied router with whatever ISP you go with?

You have to pay extra if you want a router on the airwire 6 month contract. I think they are the only one with such a short contract, good to have the option.

Andy From Sligo

thanks, - i wonder when these providers say "99eur installation charge - and get a router worth 150euro" if you can haggle and say "I dont need a router I am supplying my own , so can you keep your router and let me off the installation charge" - if they would do that? - I am predicting the answer would be no! - but it might be worth a try

and aesthetically wise I am not very keen on the look of those Fritz routers either ...

Andy From Sligo

I still like the look and sound of the all in one Huawei HG8245 off ebay for £37UK pound - if it works over here on the irish FTTH system, and has that vlan tag thing

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SC-APC-port-Huawei-HG8245-Gpon-ONT-ONU-4-ethernet-2-voice-port-WIFI-English/332428689223

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I still like the look and sound of the all in one Huawei HG8245 off ebay for £37UK pound - if it works over here on the irish FTTH system, and has that vlan tag thing

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SC-APC-port-Huawei-HG8245-Gpon-ONT-ONU-4-ethernet-2-voice-port-WIFI-English/332428689223

open eir will not allow that ONT on their network so you'll be wasting your money if you purchase it. Unless you plan to use it just as a router if that is even possible.

Andy From Sligo

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

open eir will not allow that ONT on their network so you'll be wasting your money if you purchase it. Unless you plan to use it just as a router if that is even possible.

can you elaborate a bit about the will not allow it part please? - say if you got eir / other provider to install the normal supplied ONT... and when they had gone replaced their ONT and wireless router with HG8245 all in one ONT & Wireless router and configured it all up properly .. how would they not allow it?

tuxy

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thanks, - i wonder when these providers say "99eur installation charge - and get a router worth 150euro" if you can haggle and say "I dont need a router I am supplying my own , so can you keep your router and let me off the installation charge" - if they would do that? - I am predicting the answer would be no! - but it might be worth a try
.

Why would you waste the time of both yourself and the sales rep even talking about that? All profit margins have been calculated, they either get the router back from you at some stage or they change you way above what they paid if you don't return it.
Then there is the complication of offering you a service using unsupported hardware. Do you think the customer care team get training in how to use 3rd party routers?

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

can you elaborate a bit about the will not allow it part please? - say if you got eir / other provider to install the normal supplied ONT... and when they had gone replaced their ONT and wireless router with HG8245 all in one ONT & Wireless router and configured it all up properly .. how would they not allow it?

The ONT is registered with the OLT in the exchange. When you try to replace your open eir ONT with your eBay one the OLT will reject it and you'll lose your connection.

tuxy

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

can you elaborate a bit about the will not allow it part please? - say if you got eir / other provider to install the normal supplied ONT... and when they had gone replaced their ONT and wireless router with HG8245 all in one ONT & Wireless router and configured it all up properly .. how would they not allow it?

Do you have all the tools and knowledge to correctly remove OpenEirs ONT and install that one? Are you sure you can get it to work on the OpenEir network and what do you have to gain by doing this? If you want to use your own router that's fine and very easy to do once it supports vlans on the wan port but removing a perfectly good ont in the hope you can get some random on to work.....why?

You can expect a very expensive repair from KN if it goes wrong.

tsue921i8wljb3

tuxy wrote: »

Do you have all the tools and knowledge to correctly remove OpenEirs ONT and install that one? Are you sure you can get it to work on the OpenEir network and what do you have to gain by doing this? If you want to use your own router that's fine and very easy to do once it supports vlans on the wan port but removing a perfectly good ont in the hope you can get some random on to work.....why?

You can expect a very expensive repair from KN if it goes wrong.

I'd go further to say that if his interference causes issue for others on his split that open eir would be within their rights to withdraw service completely. It is a shared medium after all.

tuxy

Yes it would have to be a massive repair bill or complete removal of service. Whichever is the most effective at detering people form doing it.