Eir rural FTTH thread II

Andy From Sligo · 06-10-2018 7:40pm

at what stage is it the customers responsibility for the hardware - I would say anything after the ODP and including the optical yellow cable just as anything after POTS main socket the hardware (phone/fax etc) is/was the customers responsibility. wouldnt I be right in saying that. Just as Telecome Eireann , eircom didnt worry if you put a binatone or betacom or panasonic phone into the master socket and it got blown up by lightening it was your responsibility to to replace it not theirs

so take eir or another ISP who install the hardware (wireless modem etc) if that goes bang .. whos responsibility is it to replace it? (and if its out of warranty?) the ISP or the customer?

Andy From Sligo · 06-10-2018 7:44pm

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

The ONT is registered with the OLT in the exchange. When you try to replace your open eir ONT with your eBay one the OLT will reject it and you'll lose your connection.

thats very drastic - why do they do that then?..

Andy From Sligo · 06-10-2018 7:48pm

tuxy wrote: »

Do you have all the tools and knowledge to correctly remove OpenEirs ONT and install that one? Are you sure you can get it to work on the OpenEir network and what do you have to gain by doing this? If you want to use your own router that's fine and very easy to do once it supports vlans on the wan port but removing a perfectly good ont in the hope you can get some random on to work.....why?

You can expect a very expensive repair from KN if it goes wrong.

what 'tools' would you need to remove the yellow fibre cable with the green plug from the supplied ONT

what do you gain? : er doing away with 2 devices (ONT & Wireless router) and turn it into 1 device and save cables / power supply etc...

Andy From Sligo · 06-10-2018 7:55pm

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

I'd go further to say that if his interference causes issue for others on his split that open eir would be within their rights to withdraw service completely. It is a shared medium after all.

A GPON ONT at the end of the day is a ONT is it not? - and its not like its some cheapo chinese made spurious router we are talking Huawei make .. hardly liable to have ropey electronics affect other users - thats like saying in the days of POTS they would not allow you to get a betacom UK telephone with a UK to Irish adaptor because it will affect other users

Andy From Sligo · 06-10-2018 8:00pm

tuxy wrote: »

Yes it would have to be a massive repair bill or complete removal of service. Whichever is the most effective at detering people form doing it.

are you absolutely sure? - that is drastic if so ... the very least should be that the Huaewei ONT does not have correct hardware/software setting ... doesnt work (LOS light or something) then unplug the optical cable and plug it back into open eir / kn supplied ONT and away you go again .. no?

tsue921i8wljb3 · 06-10-2018 8:44pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thats very drastic - why do they do that then?..

I guess they want complete control of their network. Like the device you mention could be fake, could be damaged, could be using the wrong wavelengths or any number of things to cause issues. Are you qualified to make that decision?

This is all moot anyway because they are not going to let you use it.

tuxy · 06-10-2018 8:45pm

My understanding is that an ont that is not 100% compatible can cause network collisions.
Why would you do that to your neighbours?
To save the 2 watts that the ont on the openEir network uses? Are you even sure the combined wattage of the eir Equipment is lower than the HG8245?
The more I think about it the more convinced I am that openEir would just blacklist you and never offer you FTTH at that premises again.

tuxy · 06-10-2018 8:47pm

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

This is all moot anyway because they are not going to let you use it.

In some imaginary world he would be able to pay openEir to extensively test that ont at the cost of several thousand on a segregated network for a few months and after that let him use it.

MBSnr · 06-10-2018 9:16pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

and aesthetically wise I am not very keen on the look of those Fritz routers either ...

You're not wrong on that. The burgundy and silver model I have isn't as nice as the black version I've seen online. As for the LEDs, it's like stepping back in time....

The actual OS and the features on the box are brilliant though. It's just pig ugly.

Andy From Sligo · 06-10-2018 9:32pm

does anyone know what the FTTH ISP's do if one of the wireless routers they have supplied has failed after 12months warranty? - do they say "dont worry we will send out a replacement router and and engineer to install it for you" or "dont worry we will send out another router in the post and you have to install it and set it up yourself" or "now its out of warranty we can supply one and it will cost €... or you can go out and buy your own compatible wireless modem from PCworld or wherever" ?

Andy From Sligo · 06-10-2018 9:55pm

tuxy wrote: »

My understanding is that an ont that is not 100% compatible can cause network collisions.
Why would you do that to your neighbours?
To save the 2 watts that the ont on the openEir network uses? Are you even sure the combined wattage of the eir Equipment is lower than the HG8245?
The more I think about it the more convinced I am that openEir would just blacklist you and never offer you FTTH at that premises again.

I really hate to doubt people especially when they are trying to be helpful, but have you any backup to all of this in the way of terms and conditions anywhere or any examples of this happening ... or is this just what you think they would do?

joe_99 · 06-10-2018 10:30pm

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

The ONT is registered with the OLT in the exchange. When you try to replace your open eir ONT with your eBay one the OLT will reject it and you'll lose your connection.

You are 100% correct. Each ONT has a unique serial number that is registered in the network and associated with the OLT by eir. No other ONT will work. ONT can't be moved either as they won't work at a different address from the OLT they were registered with.

fritzelly · 06-10-2018 10:35pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

does anyone know what the FTTH ISP's do if one of the wireless routers they have supplied has failed after 12months warranty? - do they say "dont worry we will send out a replacement router and and engineer to install it for you" or "dont worry we will send out another router in the post and you have to install it and set it up yourself" or "now its out of warranty we can supply one and it will cost €... or you can go out and buy your own compatible wireless modem from PCworld or wherever" ?

Please clarify - wireless routers or FTTH router, two different things
For wired connections they will replace the router if you are under contract.

For the wireless one not sure - you have to pay for it to start with (in most cases) so would be your responsibility

Andy From Sligo · 06-10-2018 10:36pm

joe_99 wrote: »

You are 100% correct. Each ONT has a unique serial number that is registered in the network and associated with the OLT by eir. No other ONT will work. ONT can't be moved either as they won't work at a different address from the OLT they were registered with.

do all OLT networks in the world work in this way where the ONT serial number is registered with the OLT? - is this how they can connect/disconnect someone/address?

say now the UK's BT's OpenReach ONT's are they registered like that with the OLT?

fritzelly · 06-10-2018 10:41pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

do all OLT networks in the world work in this way where the ONT serial number is registered with the OLT? - is this how they can connect/disconnect someone/address?

say now the UK's BT's OpenReach ONT's are they registered like that with the OLT?

Yep, the hardware ID is how they communicate with it - plonk a different ONT in there and it will cease to work immediately
Maybe they could change the ID but why would they when they are supplying their own certified hardware?
Have been cases where the ONT supplied had the wrong ID vs what was registered on their account ergo no service.
This technology is a bit beyond the old copper DSL where the signal is just 1 and 0's so you can you use whatever router you like plugged into the wall

Andy From Sligo · 06-10-2018 11:05pm

fritzelly wrote: »

Yep, the hardware ID is how they communicate with it - plonk a different ONT in there and it will cease to work immediately
Maybe they could change the ID but why would they when they are supplying their own certified hardware?
Have been cases where the ONT supplied had the wrong ID vs what was registered on their account ergo no service.
This technology is a bit beyond the old copper DSL where the signal is just 1 and 0's so you can you use whatever router you like plugged into the wall

when you say they is it physically done by human? - not automatically assigned or anything?

sounds a bit of a nightmare of a system - all electronics pack up , so if you have an eir fitted ONT and it does pack up you have to wait for an engineer to come out and repair it and replace it .. and with their track record of coming out and fixing something as well - at least with an ADSL router you could just go out , buy another ADSL router and plug it into telephone socket, set it up with right settings and away you go ...

tsue921i8wljb3 · 06-10-2018 11:28pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

when you say they is it physically done by human? - not automatically assigned or anything?

sounds a bit of a nightmare of a system - all electronics pack up , so if you have an eir fitted ONT and it does pack up you have to wait for an engineer to come out and repair it and replace it .. and with their track record of coming out and fixing something as well - at least with an ADSL router you could just go out , buy another ADSL router and plug it into telephone socket, set it up with right settings and away you go ...

That is the trade off you make for a vastly superior service. If you don't want to sign up on the off chance that an ONT fails that is your prerogative. The ONT has to be registered. It is inherent to how the system works.

tuxy · 06-10-2018 11:31pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I really hate to doubt people especially when they are trying to be helpful, but have you any backup to all of this in the way of terms and conditions anywhere or any examples of this happening ... or is this just what you think they would do?

Google "rogue ONT" to find explanations of what happens when an ONT is not behaving as it should. It would be ok if it was only you that lost service but it's not fair to compromise the service of other people.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

and with their track record of coming out and fixing something as well .

Who's track record? It's KN that do this field work. If they get paid in the same way as installs then they will be very happy to replace a faulty ont as it's such a simple job once they know which ont is faulty.

Andy From Sligo · 06-10-2018 11:47pm

tuxy wrote: »

Google "rogue ONT" to find explanations of what happens when an ONT is not behaving as it should. It would be ok if it was only you that lost service but it's not fair to compromise the service of other people.

Do you think that Huaewi ONT I linked to on ebay would be a rogue ONT? (presuming that it is an original Huawei device and not a cheap knock off china rebadged unit, which i shouldn't think it is and an original high quality huawei device)

tuxy wrote: »

Who's track record? It's KN that do this field work. If they get paid in the same way as installs then they will be very happy to replace a faulty ont as it's such a simple job once they know which ont is faulty.

I didnt say what engineer - I realise KN or someone else does the end part of the FTTH installation ... and I also am aware of all the negative and unhappy experiences of waiting for an engineer to come out and fix something

Why are the company just sticking with this one (or tight selection) of ONT's they are using? - why are they not testing the likes of this Huawei HGHG8245 on their system and then maybe them (or the preffered ISP) ditch the seperate ONT and wireless router so the customer can have one neat ONT & wireless router in one device with one less ac adapter and less wiring and just a neater looking setup - it might be tested and they might find the HGHG8245 works absolutely fine on the FTTH system ?

tuxy · 06-10-2018 11:58pm

Only extensive testing with it on the openEir network could answer that.

I'm sure the ISP can put pressure on openEir to get a fault fixed so be sure to go with an ISP with good customer service.

openEir picked one set of hardware as it would be a waste of time and money to do otherwise. Should they have delayed rollout by a few years just to test loads of ONTs when they have one that works perfectly. openEir provide a service as far as an ethernet port in the house then the ISPs have loads of options on which router they want to use.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 06-10-2018 11:58pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Do you think that Huaewi ONT I linked to on ebay would be a rogue ONT? (presuming that it is an original Huawei device and not a cheap knock off china rebadged unit, which i shouldn't think it is and an original high quality huawei device)

I didnt say what engineer - I realise KN or someone else does the end part of the FTTH installation ... and I also am aware of all the negative and unhappy experiences of waiting for an engineer to come out and fix something

Why are the company just sticking with this one (or tight selection) of ONT's they are using? - why are they not testing the likes of this Huawei HGHG8245 on their system and then maybe them (or the preffered ISP) ditch the seperate ONT and wireless router so the customer can have one neat ONT & wireless router in one device with one less ac adapter and less wiring and just a neater looking setup - it might be tested and they might find the HGHG8245 works absolutely fine on the FTTH system ?

By default if you plug in something that has not been provisioned by open eir it could be deemed rogue. You may be lucky and the OLT ignores it but why would you even take the chance that it could degrade the system for all your neighbours?

They have chosen this model because different ISPs want to use different routers. If you want to try to lobby some ISPs for an all in one device work away but I assume it would have to be requested by an ISP for open eir to even consider it.

Andy From Sligo · 07-10-2018 12:11am

Duley noted - I take into account all what you are saying - its a pity though they didnt go down the road of maybe supplying an all-in-one ONT with built in wireless router in the first place in the FTTH setup, and then all the consumer had to do is choose which ISP they wanted to go with for the internet service.

Out of these 2 setups - I know personally which setup I personally would prefer to have in my home and on display (could always hide it away and box it in I know that)

ED E · 07-10-2018 12:13am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Duley noted - I take into account all what you are saying - its a pity though they didnt go down the road of maybe supplying an all-in-one ONT with built in wireless router in the first place in the FTTH setup, and then all the consumer had to do is choose which ISP they wanted to go with for the internet service.

Out of these 2 setups - I know personally which setup I personally would prefer to have in my home and on display (could always hide it away and box it in I know that)

Nope. Won't ever happen. Same way virgin won't allow third party gear. It's a shared medium so OE want to control endpoints.

Johnboy1951 · 07-10-2018 12:14am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Duley noted - I take into account all what you are saying - its a pity though they didnt go down the road of maybe supplying an all-in-one ONT with built in wireless router in the first place in the FTTH setup, and then all the consumer had to do is choose which ISP they wanted to go with for the internet service.
....

I am extremely happy they did not go that route.

As openeir has done it there is no limitation on the user equipment fitted in my home.

tuxy · 07-10-2018 12:20am

Agreed, I'm not sure why you would want openeir to force every ISP to use the same ont/router combo which they would have to do to guarantee the integrity of the fibre network. It would seriously restrict the possible services an ISP could offer. I also imagine a router becomes obsolete long before an ONT does.

fritzelly · 07-10-2018 12:23am

The reason they stick with one provider of hardware is they negotiate a price for said hardware, if they start saying we support six providers their buying power goes way down. That's apart from all the compatibility issues etc

Andy From Sligo · 07-10-2018 12:35am

OK then - I should be able to go to my preferred ISP and say "I would like the Huawei combo ONT/Wireless device with my order please if you do it , and it should be one of the approved ones and then be able to replace the eir ONT by taking the yellow optic lead out of the ONT and put it into my ISP supplied ONT/Wireless ROUTER - or

Place my FTTH order with ISP of my choice - state that I would like the all in one ONT/Wireless Router with my order ... KN or whoever it is , comes out and fits ODP and the ONT/wireless router I placed with my ISP - whats difficult in that ?

The choice is not there at the moment - I cannot choose my own setup , I cannot choose my own type of router I want, I have to go with the router that my ISP supplies ... it sounds like I cannot even use one of my existing WLAN routers because it has to have VLAN tag - my hands fell well and truly tied , of course I will go with the default setup (when I finally can order FTTH) but I am just saying as it is at the moment its limited with the default equipment setup

tuxy · 07-10-2018 12:37am

I'm sure somewhere in the world a provider has gone with an ont+router combo option but probably only in a situation where they were also the only ISP.

Andy From Sligo · 07-10-2018 12:43am

tuxy wrote: »

I'm sure somewhere in the world a provider has gone with an ont+router combo option but probably only in a situation where they were also the only ISP.

Indeed - I think even as close to the home as BT OpenReach up in the north and UK - must check again but I am pretty sure they are using ONT with built in wireless router ... might be wrong though. Think they also supply BBU (rechargeable battery backup unit) with their ONT so that if power cut the ONT still works

tuxy · 07-10-2018 12:43am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

OK then - I should be able to go to my preferred ISP and say "I would like the Huawei combo ONT/Wireless device with my order please if you do it , and it should be one of the approved ones and then be able to replace the eir ONT by taking the yellow optic lead out of the ONT and put it into my ISP supplied ONT/Wireless ROUTER - or

So you want to go to your ISP and have them go to openeir who can test whatever random ONT you picked for a few months and then get back to you?

I'm running my own router without issue. Any router that's an upgrade for the default one will support vlan tagging, anything else would be a downgrad anyway.

Eir rural FTTH thread II

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