Eir rural FTTH thread II

Marlow

fritzelly wrote: »

Most companies have...no need to nitpick with a few small companies most people have never heard of or will ever deal with and they probably couldn't afford to do it

Not afford to ? Are you mad ?

Westnet sells 150 Mbit/s at 45 EUR with free installation and free router. And that's a regular pricing. They just limit themselves geographically, because they feel they can't offer the support standard outside of their boundaries.

Not affording it doesn't even come into the picture.

And I just mentioned the ones, that I knew of my head. I can find more. Don't be sore, when somebody proves you wrong.

/M

fritzelly

Westnet admit they lose money in the first year with FTTH

Most people don't care about customer care/support as they have no need to ever use it, tho eir probably has the worst

I'm not sore :cool:

KOR101

Kerry update: A lot of work now done along Sneem road out of Kenmare. Spools of fibre clearly up on some of the poles. I'm up a small road after Templenoe and the poles have a red painted mark right up to where the old blue line ends. So it really is still happening.

I'm a few hundred metres beyond it. Did someone write that they certainly won't go beyond 200 metres if at all?

Airwire: MartinL

KOR101 wrote: »

Kerry update: A lot of work now done along Sneem road out of Kenmare. Spools of fibre clearly up on some of the poles. I'm up a small road after Templenoe and the poles have a red painted mark right up to where the old blue line ends. So it really is still happening.

I'm a few hundred metres beyond it. Did someone write that they certainly won't go beyond 200 metres if at all?

150m is the maximum and that's only if you're on the stretch.

We have tried to convince them to connect 2 houses 100m past the last pole and they've refused. So chances are slim to none, if you're past the last pole.

daraghwal

Airwire: MartinL wrote: »

150m is the maximum and that's only if you're on the stretch.

We have tried to convince them to connect 2 houses 100m past the last pole and they've refused. So chances are slim to none, if you're past the last pole.

Have you had any successes asking them to connect people that are in a situation like me? About 65 metres from the road but the nearest pole within the blue lines on the DCCAE map to me is 10-15 metres. I am in the middle of the fibre run, just a bit further from the road.

Airwire: MartinL

daraghwal wrote: »

Have you had any successes asking them to connect people that are in a situation like me? About 65 metres from the road but the nearest pole within the blue lines on the DCCAE map to me is 10-15 metres. I am in the middle of the fibre run, just a bit further from the road.

Can you PM me an Eircode and I'll have a look.

Airwire: MartinL

Hi,

your house should be no problem. We've fixed issues like that no problem.

You just have to be aware, that you've got to have ducting to the OpenEIR pole on the road, because they won't do an overhead span any longer than 50m.

RoYoBo

I don't like Eir as a company and had endless problems trying to get my FTTH connected due to unbelievable incompetence. Their 'customer service' is the definition of the word oxymoron.

However, now that I am FTTH connected for 4 months, I am very happy with my 150mbs and the price. I did my research and knew that it was the cheapest solution for me, by a country mile! Westnet is the only other provider I know of that doesn't charge a hefty connection fee, but it has very limited geographical availability and not in my area.

I have the Eir €45/€50 package for 12 months, with VOIP calls included and (so far) all is working perfectly. I received the €50 cashback and compensation from Eir for the mess made of my FTTH order. In addition, I'm finding their mobile app, with free calls from my broadband allowance when out and about, to be a huge cost-saving advantage. I hadn't figured this into my initial calculations, so it was a nice bonus.

If I am careless enough not to search out other/better deals after my 12 month special offer is up, then the consequences are mine. I do it for all other repeat services and products, so why not broadband? There are several sites that offer comparisons, with the option of fairly easy and straightforward switching.

Loath as I am to praise Eir, all in all it was/is the best choice for me and many others, especially if budget is an issue. When it ceases to be the best deal, it's up to us to search out alternatives - that's the name of the game for everything you choose to buy

Marlow

And sometimes you even get lucky and they increase your price by 6 EUR half way through your term.

If you miss that letter and don't change before the date, that they specified, you're paying the higher price and are back in contract.

Have you checked your bill lately ?

I've seen a good few, that got caught on that one. Seen a good few also using the opportunity to jump ship.

199 EUR isn't a hefty installation fee, when you consider, that the providers are charged 270+VAT by OpenEIR for the installation. Nevermind the infrastructure they've got to put in place before they're even able to get you a connection.

Surely, it's up to you to vote with your wallet. But then again, when you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Any problem with your line you've got to compensate with grey hair, hours on the phone and probably lost income, when you can't work because of the issues. Especially for those who depend on broadband to work from home.

At the end of the day, it's a matter on how much money your time is worth. If you're happy to spend more time dealing with issues, then you sure can save a buck here and there.

/M

daraghwal

Airwire: MartinL wrote: »

Hi,

your house should be no problem. We've fixed issues like that no problem.

You just have to be aware, that you've got to have ducting to the OpenEIR pole on the road, because they won't do an overhead span any longer than 50m.

Will they do an overhead span when their poles are already in place right up to the house?

Airwire: MartinL

daraghwal wrote: »

Will they do an overhead span when their poles are already in place right up to the house?

Maybe. That question can always be brought up with them.

Generally, they state that they only do an overhead span up to 50m from the road/pole.

To be honest, the cable they use for overhead spans is flimsy as **** ... I've talked with some of the engineers and they're already fixing/replacing overhead cables they put in less than a year ago.

The cable that goes into ducting has a heavy duty mantle. But it's too heavy to be run overhead.

AidenL

daraghwal wrote: »

Will they do an overhead span when their poles are already in place right up to the house?

I’m wondering that also.

I have a copper phone and dsl all the way to my house on poles, but I’m 100m from the road as the crow flies

AidenL

Airwire: MartinL wrote: »

Maybe. That question can always be brought up with them.

Generally, they state that they only do an overhead span up to 50m from the road/pole.

To be honest, the cable they use for overhead spans is flimsy as **** ... I've talked with some of the engineers and they're already fixing/replacing overhead cables they put in less than a year ago.

The cable that goes into ducting has a heavy duty mantle. But it's too heavy to be run overhead.

Bugger, that might be me doomed than.

Airwire: MartinL

AidenL wrote: »

Bugger, that might be me doomed than.

If there's a phone line on that already, they will probably use them. Sometimes they already need to do the span over 4-5 poles on the road to get from the DP to a house.

There's just another problem with that. We had an install this weekend, where the phone line was brought in 20-30 years on an overhead install. Now, the phoneline goes right through trees. Even the pole with OpenEIRs DP is surrounded by trees.

The customer would have had to chop 5-10m of the top of his trees to use that same path.

The requirement is 1m of clearing around the fiber cable.

Bringing the line in overhead on the other side of the house was a no go due to power lines crossing there.

In the end, the customer brought 40m 2" ducting in from the OpenEIR pole to the house. At least we know, that that's going to be something that isn't going to break any time soon.

AidenL

Airwire: MartinL wrote: »

If there's a phone line on that already, they will probably use them. Sometimes they already need to do the span over 4-5 poles on the road to get from the DP to a house.

There's just another problem with that. We had an install this weekend, where the phone line was brought in 20-30 years on an overhead install. Now, the phoneline goes right through trees. Even the pole with OpenEIRs DP is surrounded by trees.

The customer would have had to chop 5-10m of the top of his trees to use that same path.

The requirement is 1m of clearing around the fiber cable.

Bringing the line in overhead on the other side of the house was a no go due to power lines crossing there.

In the end, the customer brought 40m 2" ducting in from the OpenEIR pole to the house. At least we know, that that's going to be something that isn't going to break any time soon.

Martin,

What are your thoughts on this kind of scenario on the attached picture?

I know I'll have to trim trees also, I have that same issue to be honest. Not sure how the phone line lasts out the storms !

RoYoBo

Marlow wrote: »

And sometimes you even get lucky and they increase your price by 6 EUR half way through your term.

If you miss that letter and don't change before the date, that they specified, you're paying the higher price and are back in contract.
/M

IF I miss that important communication, then it's my fault.

Marlow wrote: »

Have you checked your bill lately ?

/M

Yes - every month for all bills, without fail. Eir isn't the only company that makes errors.

Marlow wrote: »

199 EUR isn't a hefty installation fee, when you consider, that the providers are charged 270+VAT by OpenEIR for the installation. Nevermind the infrastructure they've got to put in place before they're even able to get you a connection.

/M

It doesn't much matter to me who is charging the €199 when I have to pay it - it's an added expense and money out of my pocket. It's up to the other aggrieved companies to fight that battle.

Marlow wrote: »

Surely, it's up to you to vote with your wallet. But then again, when you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Any problem with your line you've got to compensate with grey hair, hours on the phone and probably lost income, when you can't work because of the issues. Especially for those who depend on broadband to work from home.

/M

Another IF that people have to deal with IF the time comes. Line problems happen, whether it's Eir or some other provider and AFAIK, the same crews will be responsible for fixing them all anyway. Choosing another provider isn't going to save you that hassle IF the worst happens. The 'peanut' and 'monkeys' analogy doesn't really work here - the 150mb FTTH is exactly the same, no matter who provides it.

Marlow wrote: »

At the end of the day, it's a matter on how much money your time is worth. If you're happy to spend more time dealing with issues, then you sure can save a buck here and there.

/M

It was way more than 'a buck' - over €400 for the first year if my memory serves me.

Marlow

RoYoBo wrote: »

The 'peanut' and 'monkeys' analogy doesn't really work here - the 150mb FTTH is exactly the same, no matter who provides it.

That right there is not quite right.

OpenEIR has 2 ways of providing NGA to other providers.

First of all, the provider can choose to let OpenEIR provide the connection and haul it all the way to for example Dublin or Cork or wherever their base is. They will charge the provider for the line and the traffic charges for the transit.

OR

The provider picks up the traffic locally as near as possible to the exchange that the line is connected to. The provider then hauls it back to base on their own infrastructure.

And this is exactly the reason, why for example Westnet only does business outside of Mayo, when it's for business customers, that want connectivity back to Mayo. Westnet is based in Castlebar. They have direct OpenEIR infrastructure everywhere around Mayo and they use their own network to transport the traffic. So if you were in lets say Dundalk, your 150 Mbit/s line would be delivered to them in Mayo (so travels from Dundalk to Mayo and may cost them traffic charges) and then from Mayo on their own infrastructure back out to for example their upstream connections in Dublin or elsewhere. Paul explained that earlier in the thread, when he outlined, why they are selective, what business outside of the northwest they take on.

Airwire is very similar. They pick up traffic locally and use their own national infrastructure. The difference is just, that they're more geographically central in Ireland, so cover more ground and they have a presence in Dublin, Portlaoise, Limerick, Ennis, Athlone plus soon Sligo. So anything outside of that scope, they'd probably only give you a yay or nay on request.

I can give you more examples, if you want. Digiweb is one. They run their own network. Actually even outside of Ireland.

And then there's upstream. Every ISP differs. What upstream they have, how many internet exchanges they are on, how well connected they are.

During the snow, we saw some of the most extreme bandwidth usage ever. Nearly ever ISP did. And it also showed who where the most contended ISPs, so didn't have upstream bandwidth. Those were Eir, Sky and Vodafone for example. Massively oversubscribed.

When you only get about 12 Mbit/s on an otherwise 90 Mbit/s VDSL connection at that particular time, you know there's not enough bandwidth to go around.

Also .. as explained above, the other way (just let OpenEIR handle the whole shebang) ... a very good example is Sky. They use BT for everything. BT will provide them with NGN circuits. So they don't do OpenEIR FTTH because that's already expensive as it is. BT whacks a bit on top. Now it's not of interest at all.

So all Sky do is OpenEIR FTTC and soon SIRO. They use BT for all that and have no network of their own in Ireland. And well .. their upstream capacity doesn't seem to be the best either, when it gets busy. Plenty of examples here on boards for that.

So yes .... you pay peanuts and you get monkeys.

If you pick a provider, that a) has network staff in house and know what they're doing, b) actually operates their own network, c) doesn't oversubscribe to f***, d) does actually have support in Ireland and e) cares about their customers .... then you get a better connection and less hassle.

/M

Marlow

Oh... and then there's story about routers.

You're telling me, that unless you've got the know how to replace your router, that a 150 Mbit/s connection on Eir or Vodafone is the same as other providers who lets say use the Fritz!Box routers ?

And what will a better router cost you ? (it's included with Digiweb. And Airwire will give it to you for free, if you extend your contract to 12 months ... opposed to 6 months)

Mjaeh .... i'll leave that elephant in the room right there.

/M

Marlow

RoYoBo wrote: »

It was way more than 'a buck' - over €400 for the first year if my memory serves me.

How do you arrive at that figure ?

Eir = Free installation, 45x6+50x6 = 570 EUR for 12 months.
Digiweb = 199 EUR installation, 54.95x12 = 858.40 EUR for 12 months (288.40 more than Eir, better router)
Airwire = 199 EUR installation, 50x12 = 799 EUR for 12 months (229 more than Eir, better router)

A better router will cost you about 150-200 EUR ... now we're talking maybe 30-80 EUR difference in 12 months.

And the 50 EUR you got back for the hassle they created .... well, that hassle shouldn't have been there in the first place.

/M

RoYoBo

I think we're talking at complete cross-purposes here, Marlow. I'm speaking about FTTH only. If I had chosen Digiweb or Pure (the only other providers available to me) I'd have been charged €199 installation charge. You've already acknowledged this is because Eir charge them a prohibitive fee to access the SAME line as I have.

In turn, I have acknowledged that Eir have abysmal CS. I was also concerned about the Eir router and its wifi capabilities but can only report that I've had no problems whatsoever - so far, but that's all anyone can speak about. Digiweb offering a 'free' modem while charging for the installation kinda cancels itself out.

And the elephant in the room is actually the overall, far from inconsiderable, cost difference for the first year ... When that is up, I will consider Digiweb or Pure or any other provider that can offer me a better deal.

RoYoBo

I refer you to my post from December 9th.

RoYoBo wrote: »

There is quite a substantial difference in costs for the first year between Digiweb and Eir. Both are 12 month contracts and the following illustrates the costs for both for Year 1:

Digiweb €64.95 (calls included) for 12 months, plus the installation charge of 199 equals €978.40.

Eir (calls included) is €45 x 6 for the first 6 months, followed by €50 x 6 for the next 6 months and 50 cashback equals €520 and no installation charge.

That €458 difference for the first year is a deal breaker for me due to my budget. Granted, the better modem and better customer service (not to mention the extreme hassle of trying to get installed with Eir in the first place!) is a big plus for Digiweb, but not enough to overcome a saving of such magnitude.

If one is careful and on the ball, once the contract is up at the end of the 12 months, one is free to change to the best deal available. This may be Digiweb at that time, given that no installation fee will apply.

RoYoBo

Marlow wrote: »

A better router will cost you about 150-200 EUR ... now we're talking maybe 30-80 EUR difference in 12 months.

And the 50 EUR you got back for the hassle they created .... well, that hassle shouldn't have been there in the first place.

/M

I don't need a better router - the one Eir provided works perfectly for me. I got the €50 cashback as part of the deal and not as compensation. I was given a separate amount for that that I didn't include in my calculations.

Marlow

RoYoBo wrote: »

I refer you to my post from December 9th.

Well, yes. Based on that pricing, quite a difference. A lot has changed price wise since then.

RoYoBo wrote: »

I don't need a better router - the one Eir provided works perfectly for me.

Fair enough. I've had my fingers on a few of those. I even have one of the Vodafone SIRO ones (same as Eir FTTH router) in box here. Never opened. All I'd use it for is a doorstop.

Either way, if that suits you, that's fine. But you'd be the exception there. The amount of people disgruntled with for example the wifi quality of that piece of c*** is quite a bit. I came across one recently, who has the 1000 Mbit/s FTTH connection. On the Eir router, all he gets wirelessly was 8 Mbit/s. ... I could have tried to explain the reason for that, but then again, in his world he still thinks Eir is irish owned and he couldn't dream of replacing what they supplied ... including the router.

/M

Marlow

RoYoBo wrote: »

Another IF that people have to deal with IF the time comes.

Have a read at this: https://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057848243 and let me know, how you get on, when you're cancelling your broadband with Eir to not having to pay them 81 EUR/month after 12 months.

/M

RoYoBo

Marlow wrote: »

Well, yes. Based on that pricing, quite a difference. A lot has changed price wise since then.
/M

AFAIK, the only thing that's changed is the €50 cashback? Still makes over €400 of a difference in the first year, even if I was to make my choice and install now.

As for the router, I believe there can be a significant difference over wifi, though choosing a different band (5 or 2.4) to suit your tablet/phone/gadget helps a lot. I think there was an older batch of Eir routers that had more problems, so maybe I was lucky

I get 146 on my (wired) PC and 109 on my wireless phone. My tablet is old, so around 50 is all I get with it, but certainly streets ahead of the 3.5 I used to have.

Marlow

RoYoBo wrote: »

AFAIK, the only thing that's changed is the €50 cashback? Still makes over €400 of a difference in the first year, even if I was to make my choice and install now.

Marlow wrote: »

Eir = Free installation, 45x6+50x6 = 570 EUR for 12 months.
Digiweb = 199 EUR installation, 54.95x12 = 858.40 EUR for 12 months (288.40 more than Eir, better router)
Airwire = 199 EUR installation, 50x12 = 799 EUR for 12 months (229 more than Eir, better router)

Nowhere near 400 EUR in difference, because for example Digiwebs pricing is 10er less/month since back then. Or well, you quoted the calls included pricing back then.

Also, you said, that only Digiweb and Pure were available to you: http://fibrerollout.ie/rollout-map/where-to-buy/

I see 8 providers offering FTTH there. Of those I see 5, that may not cover you. Your profile doesn't specify where in the country you are, so nobody knows. And you only know, if they cover you, if you actually ask them.

RoYoBo wrote: »

As for the router, I believe there can be a significant difference over wifi, though choosing a different band (5 or 2.4) to suit your tablet/phone/gadget helps a lot. I think there was an older batch of Eir routers that had more problems, so maybe I was lucky

No. You got lucky full stop with that router. They're still crap. I've only had my fingers on one last week. You leave the room and you have no wifi .... neither on 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz.

/M

Cuauhtemoc

Marlow wrote: »

If you're within 150m of a distribution point, chances are extremely good, that you can get it. The lines on the fibre map (or the houses enabled) are not very accurate.

/M

Another quick one hopefully. Maps have updated the FTTH go live date to 11th of April which is great!!
I'm just wondering while it's a convenient option(digger onsite) should we run a duct direct to the pole with the Distribution Point on it which is around 100m away from the house?
The pole that actually services our house is 30m away but would running duct direct to the DP pole increase the likelihood of getting FTTH?
The house and the respective poles are all in a straight line on the roadside if that makes any difference.
Some other information if it is anyway relevant:
-The DP is already 100m past the last postcode listed as being able to get FTTH on the fibrerollout map.
-There are only 5 houses withing a 100m radius of this DP. None of which show as being able to receive FTTH on the map.

Thanks.

C.

Marlow

Cuauhtemoc wrote: »

Another quick one hopefully. Maps have updated the FTTH go live date to 11th of April which is great!!
I'm just wondering while it's a convenient option(digger onsite) should we run a duct direct to the pole with the Distribution Point on it which is around 100m away from the house?
The pole that actually services our house is 30m away but would running duct direct to the DP pole increase the likelihood of getting FTTH?
The house and the respective poles are all in a straight line on the roadside if that makes any difference.
Some other information if it is anyway relevant:
-The DP is already 100m past the last postcode listed as being able to get FTTH on the fibrerollout map.
-There are only 5 houses withing a 100m radius of this DP. None of which show as being able to receive FTTH on the map.

Thanks.

C.

If you're past the last pole, you may find it difficult to get any connection, unless you accidently provide the wrong Eircode ... and in that case having the duct at the pole with the DP may be a very good plan.

The DP being past the last Eircode listed will give you a good chance of making your case. Get a picture of the DP, where the number on it is clearly visible. Then state, that your duct is at said pole. Looks like their mapping is off again.

/M

Cuauhtemoc

Thanks again Marlow.

Just looking at doing the ducting run. From Eir's webiste:
Suitable duct for most installations will be a Hydrodare type pipe of minimum internal
diameter of 32 mm.
(50 or 100mm pipe will be required for long distance runs)

Would standard 54mm black ducting do for this? Something like This
A quick search for Hydrodare type pipe brings up a 150m roll for €550!!

Edit: Also should i put in an Access box as near the DP pole as i can? The pole is the other side of our wall but only a meter or so away. Would they normally come down over the wall into the duct/Access box or under the wall? Going under obviously being somewhat trickier for us.

Cheers.

C.

Johnboy1951

Cuauhtemoc wrote: »

Thanks again Marlow.

Just looking at doing the ducting run. From Eir's webiste:
Suitable duct for most installations will be a Hydrodare type pipe of minimum internal
diameter of 32 mm.
(50 or 100mm pipe will be required for long distance runs)

Would standard 54mm black ducting do for this? Something like This
A quick search for Hydrodare type pipe brings up a 150m roll for €550!!

Cheers.

C.

The reason they mention Hydrodare pipe is (IMO) to imply a continuous run without joints, unlike the pipe you linked to which would have a joint every 6 metres at least.

If the run is without bends, and great care is taken with security of joints, particularly when back filling, then the linked pipe should work well.