Eir rural FTTH thread II

fritzelly

Airwire: MartinL wrote: »

Obviously at 50 EUR, it was only 512 kbit/s in 2006, but we still have customers with us to date, that have SOHO package level at 50 EUR. The only time that would change, is if they voluntarily decide to change package. End of story. Oh yes .. and they'd be at 20 Mbit/s now. Not 512 kbit/s.

I don't wanna think what I was paying for that at the time and then got ISDN and paying 2 line rental charges!
But fair play to you or rather the company unless you own the company then fair due to you

Airwire: MartinL

fritzelly wrote: »

I don't wanna think what I was paying for that at the time and then got ISDN and paying 2 line rental charges!
But fair play to you or rather the company unless you own the company then fair due to you

A contract goes both ways. If you deteriorate the contract on the customer, then the customer can leave without penalty.

If you improve the contract on the customer, then the customer has very little incentive to break the contract.

Simple 1+1 calculation. Airwire has customers to date, that have been with us from within the first 2 or 3 months of starting the business. I would say, that says a lot about us.

Westnet has very much the same attitude. So you will find, that we have very little coverage in Mayo because there is no need. They do the same job as we do .. with slightly changed parameters.

If a customer in Mayo comes to us, and we can cover them, we won't turn them away. If Paul gets a customer in Galway, that he can cover, he won't turn them away. Beyond that, there is no need to fight over the same customer, as there are plenty of people that are crying for broadband in other areas.

And similar principles apply to other regional ISPs. Like Net1, BBnet, Northwest Broadband or a lot of other regional providers.

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Why do suppliers raise ISP charge after the term , if they wanted to keep customers after their minimum contract why would they raise price? - should be the other way round and lower price after the cotract to keep customers and stop them leaving for another ISP - doesnt make sense.

Eir and Sky do raise the price after the term. Virgin, if you don't negotiate. The majority of other providers do not. And some of those others offer you a discounted price for a contract extension, but don't advertise this.

And as for the router, some providers want to provide their own router to ensure quality. If you replace it, it's your own problem.

Other providers will offer you shorter contracts, if you buy their router outright .. or supply your own. But you will be at your own devices with your own router support wise. Technician callouts will cost you, if your equipment is at fault. That suits very few people.

That's where you have to make your pick. But you can't have the cheapest price and freedom. Doesn't work that way.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Airwire: MartinL wrote: »

A contract goes both ways. If you deteriorate the contract on the customer, then the customer can leave without penalty.

If you improve the contract on the customer, then the customer has very little incentive to break the contract.

Simple 1+1 calculation. Airwire has customers to date, that have been with us from within the first 2 or 3 months of starting the business. I would say, that says a lot about us.

Westnet has very much the same attitude. So you will find, that we have very little coverage in Mayo because there is no need. They do the same job as we do .. with slightly changed parameters.

If a customer in Mayo comes to us, and we can cover them, we won't turn them away. If Paul gets a customer in Galway, that he can cover, he won't turn them away. Beyond that, there is no need to fight over the same customer, as there are plenty of people that are crying for broadband in other areas.

And similar principles apply to other regional ISPs. Like Net1, BBnet, Northwest Broadband or a lot of other regional providers.

That sort of geographical monopoly is coming to an end I'm afraid. The deeper fibre goes into rural Ireland the tougher the smaller players are going to find it. You'll now be competing with eir, with Sky, with Vodafone and their massive advertising budgets. The vast mishmash of regional providers is not going to last in my opinion. If I were you I'd be looking at consolidating my business with other like minded providers.

Airwire: MartinL

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

That sort of geographical monopoly is coming to an end I'm afraid. The deeper fibre goes into rural Ireland the tougher the smaller players are going to find it. You'll now be competing with eir, with Sky, with Vodafone and their massive advertising budgets. The vast mishmash of regional providers is not going to last in my opinion. If I were you I'd be looking at consolidating my business with other like minded providers.

It's why some of us have invested (no small amounts) into expanding our network to OpenEIR and SIRO coverage. In some cases even done our own limited FTTH rollout.

Trust me. None of these providers are asleep.

Calhoun

One of the disadvantage the good smaller providers have right now is fighting the perceptions of old.

I looked around for a long time before i originally went with Imagine before i could get FTTH and the market for wireless services just didnt seem trustworthy enough for the product being sold.

It was folks on this thread that got me to look at other options and give airwire a go. I could be wrong but i think this could be an issue for some of the smaller companies as they get a better product to sell, the perception is the larger companies will offer a better service overall.

I could be wrong though.

Westnet: Paul

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

That sort of geographical monopoly is coming to an end I'm afraid.

It's been a long time since we had anything that vaguely resembled a regional monopoly. The fact that we don't waste energy trying to cannibalise each others' business doesn't mean we're not facing some pretty stiff competition from other quarters already.

The deeper fibre goes into rural Ireland the tougher the smaller players are going to find it. You'll now be competing with eir, with Sky, with Vodafone and their massive advertising budgets.

Yeah, we know. I think there's still scope to be a successful minority player by appealing to people who want to feel valued as customers.

The vast mishmash of regional providers is not going to last in my opinion. If I were you I'd be looking at consolidating my business with other like minded providers.

It may come to that, but I don't think it's there yet. The mechanics of consolidating SMEs can be daunting.

Andy From Sligo

Looking at it logically you would think that if you went with a large well known company that they would have the money to invest the money into the infrastructure and equipment as and when they need to, and the outfit to offer more people jobs in the customer service department so you are not waiting on hold ages to speak to someone, and would be a more professional outfit.
Except for from what I hear and see is that the small ISP's seem to be much better to deal with . offering a more competitive packages, better customer care, actually more grateful for customers and more friendlier. The only thing I am concerned about is if big ISP companies up a gear now (and they are more likely to seeing as we are now entering an era of ftth being offered in rural areas) dwarf the smaller ISP's and eventually put them out of business because the smaller ISP's simply cannot keep afloat with the other larger companies around.

Johnboy1951

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Looking at it logically you would think that if you went with a large well known company that they would have the money to invest the money into the infrastructure and equipment as and when they need to, and the outfit to offer more people jobs in the customer service department so you are not waiting on hold ages to speak to someone, and would be a more professional outfit.
Except for from what I hear and see is that the small ISP's seem to be much better to deal with . offering a more competitive packages, better customer care, actually more grateful for customers and more friendlier. The only thing I am concerned about is if big ISP companies up a gear now (and they are more likely to seeing as we are now entering an era of ftth being offered in rural areas) dwarf the smaller ISP's and eventually put them out of business because the smaller ISP's simply cannot keep afloat with the other larger companies around.

IF ..... good luck with that!

Andy From Sligo

Just wondering, what happens if you put a wireless router on without vlan tagging in its menu/features what happens ? Like say if you swapped out the supplied ISP router for your own router without vlan tagging (don't worry I wouldn't be doing it I am just curious as to what would happen) would it just not work / not be able to get internet?

tuxy

Not really a ftth question just google what happens if you don't tag packets with the correct or any vlan tag.(Anwer....not much)

chris_ie

We were due to have FTTH by Winter 2018. Figured it would be 2019 due to the storms. Although, seen a KN van this morning out past the house with a trailer and two big spools of black cable/conduit or whatever it was. Any ideas what that would be? Think the lines are ducted out our way and not on the poles. Wife said they KN fella was at the bottom of the lane the other day down the hole doing something. Also the exchange we'd be connecting into is still showing as 'Planned' although as we all know that map hasnt been updated in a while.

Andy From Sligo

tuxy wrote: »

Not really a ftth question just google what happens if you don't tag packets with the correct or any vlan tag.(Anwer....not much)

sorry I should have worded it a bit better - it was to do with FTTH connection. -
I think i read a few posts back that the router on FTTH must have Vlan Tagging ... but I never found out why and if FTTH will still work with a router without VLAN tagging ...

EDIT: just googled and its gone right over my head , i dont get it I only want a simple answer does it work or not work on FTTH but all the answers on google go into too much technicality about VLAN Tagging ...

Andy From Sligo

tuxy wrote: »

Not really a ftth question just google what happens if you don't tag packets with the correct or any vlan tag.(Anwer....not much)

EDIT: just googled and its gone right over my head , i dont get it I only want a simple answer does it work or not work on FTTH but all the answers on google go into too much technicality about VLAN Tagging ...

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

EDIT: just googled and its gone right over my head , i dont get it I only want a simple answer does it work or not work on FTTH but all the answers on google go into too much technicality about VLAN Tagging ...

The answer is: NO.

The native (no vlan tag) VLan is typically Vlan 1.

So if you connect a router that doesn't do Vlan tagging, then you try to talk to the other side on Vlan 1.

That's like ringing the wrong phone number when connecting to dial-up internet and there is no modem on the other side.

/M

tuxy

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

sorry I should have worded it a bit better - it was to do with FTTH connection. -
I think i read a few posts back that the router on FTTH must have Vlan Tagging ... but I never found out why and if FTTH will still work with a router without VLAN tagging ...

virtual lans are an IEEE 802.1Q standard and work the same for openeir as they would if you setup one locally yourself so the same answers you find on google apply.

oscarBravo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

EDIT: just googled and its gone right over my head , i dont get it I only want a simple answer does it work or not work on FTTH but all the answers on google go into too much technicality about VLAN Tagging ...

It won't work. FTTH traffic has to be VLAN tagged. If your router can't tag it, nothing happens. PPPoE won't log in; IPoE won't get an address.

tuxy

oscarBravo wrote: »

It won't work. FTTH traffic has to be VLAN tagged. If your router can't tag it, nothing happens. PPPoE won't log in; IPoE won't get an address.

It's very odd that he would think it would work any different from the IEEE standard. Any standard networking question can be answered on google, I could be word but I think this is the kind of thing that Ed E was asking us to avoid when he warned everyone to stay on topic.

tsue921i8wljb3

chris_ie wrote: »

We were due to have FTTH by Winter 2018. Figured it would be 2019 due to the storms. Although, seen a KN van this morning out past the house with a trailer and two big spools of black cable/conduit or whatever it was. Any ideas what that would be? Think the lines are ducted out our way and not on the poles. Wife said they KN fella was at the bottom of the lane the other day down the hole doing something. Also the exchange we'd be connecting into is still showing as 'Planned' although as we all know that map hasnt been updated in a while.

Sounds like it could be the fibre cable. It comes on a massive drum that they pull around on a special trailer.

Andy From Sligo

tuxy wrote: »

It's very odd that he would think it would work any different from the IEEE standard. Any standard networking question can be answered on google, I could be word but I think this is the kind of thing that Ed E was asking us to avoid when he warned everyone to stay on topic.

I know, i'm sorry but all I was getting was too technical answers and no plain answers - I hate networking at the best of times -

EDIT: - only used to ADSL set-ups where you can just use a modem/router without Vlan tagging

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

The answer is: NO.

The native (no vlan tag) VLan is typically Vlan 1.

So if you connect a router that doesn't do Vlan tagging, then you try to talk to the other side on Vlan 1.

That's like ringing the wrong phone number when connecting to dial-up internet and there is no modem on the other side.

/M

oscarBravo wrote: »

It won't work. FTTH traffic has to be VLAN tagged. If your router can't tag it, nothing happens. PPPoE won't log in; IPoE won't get an address.

Thanks thats answered my question

tuxy

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I know, i'm sorry but all I was getting was too technical answers and no plain answers - I hate networking at the best of times -

EDIT: - only used to ADSL set-ups where you can just use a modem/router without Vlan tagging

If you can't google ""what is vlan tagging" and understand the two sentence answer that's highlighted you would be better off going with the ISP supplied router so you have access to tech support.
Using any of the extra features enabled by using your own router will require some reading about networking.

ED E

We need a new thread for Andy's network building 101.

chris_ie

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

Sounds like it could be the fibre cable. It comes on a massive drum that they pull around on a special trailer.

Cheers Dominique Loud Waistband. Hopefully it’s the start of it at least. Any movement on it would be great to see.

BandMember

It baffles me how some people who don't even have the service can spend pages of this thread posting about how they want to mess around with it and screw things up for not only themselves, but possibly others in their area too, despite being told multiple times not to do so and have their query answered repeatedly. I mean........ :rolleyes:

m99T

BandMember wrote: »

It baffles me how some people who don't even have the service can spend pages of this thread posting about how they want to mess around with it and screw things up for not only themselves, but possibly others in their area too, despite being told multiple times not to do so and have their query answered repeatedly. I mean........ :rolleyes:

If we didn't mess around and break things we probably wouldn't have most of the technology we have today.

If you can break it you have to learn to fix it.

oscarBravo

m99T wrote: »

If we didn't mess around and break things we probably wouldn't have most of the technology we have today.

If you can break it you have to learn to fix it.

Yeah... but the polite thing is to break your own network, not someone else's.

Andy From Sligo

tuxy wrote: »

If you can't google ""what is vlan tagging" and understand the two sentence answer that's highlighted you would be better off going with the ISP supplied router so you have access to tech support.
Using any of the extra features enabled by using your own router will require some reading about networking.

I already have said that I will be sticking with the ISP supplied router. I only asked what would happen if a person was to put a router on without Vlan tagging.

You seem to have selective reading of my posts - even though I say I am going to use the ISP supplied router that you choose to ignore that and i feel you make me out to be an idiot for not understanding if I cannot understand the answers on Google.

i am taking it from the tone from you and you and all the posts you have replied to me on here that you have a problem with me/my posts

Andy From Sligo

BandMember wrote: »

It baffles me how some people who don't even have the service can spend pages of this thread posting about how they want to mess around with it and screw things up for not only themselves, but possibly others in their area too, despite being told multiple times not to do so and have their query answered repeatedly. I mean........ :rolleyes:

what is problem with people jeesus - touchy or what - you and others failed to read properly what I posted - I posted "I am not going to do it, but what would happen if I put a router on without WLAN tagging" - and people cannot just answer the question I asked they have to twist it and start getting all arsehole like about it

tuxy

I have no problem with you, just your attempts to derail the thread at every opportunity. There's a nets & comms section for networking questions.

If you really wanted to lean what happens when you use the wrong vlan tag you would just change the tag on a PC on your local network.