Eir rural FTTH thread II

fritzelly

As discussed before not every eircode is matched to phone numbers and the eircode is the primary way to check for FTTH

Marlow

Poulgorm wrote: »

What's a man to believe?

The only thing you can go by, if you don't have background knowledge:

- whatever the provider check for THAT provider says applies to THAT provider and THAT provider only. Not for other providers.

Background knowledge:

- Airwire updates their database every single week and even optimizes their data where they can.

- Eir retail updates their data much less frequent, sometimes every 2 weeks, sometimes once a month

- Vodafone updates their data maybe once every 2 or 3 months.

etc. etc. etc. etc.

- also: when Eir retail updates their data, they completely ignore the "Ready for Order" field.

- On the Airwire checker however it will tell you, what date their database last was updated, when it is estimated, that your order can be ordered from OpenEIR or when it says "No ports available", that your DP is full, the exchange can't take any more connections or the build is in trouble/delayed. Eir retail does not relay that sort of data. They only know yay or nay. And then ooops, when it went wrong.

Bottom line:

- whatever the provider check for THAT provider says applies to THAT provider and THAT provider only. Not for other providers.

You can't go to a provider and say: "but the other provider says I'm enabled !"

/M

Poulgorm

Bottom line:

- whatever the provider check for THAT provider says applies to THAT provider and THAT provider only. Not for other providers.

You can't go to a provider and say: "but the other provider says I'm enabled !"

/M

Interesting response, Marlow. I thought Openeir were legally obliged to treat all providers equally and not give their sister sales company a head start on the others.

Marlow

Poulgorm wrote: »

Interesting response, Marlow. I thought Openeir were legally obliged to treat all providers equally and not give their sister sales company a head start on the others.

You didn't read my response properly.

OpenEIR gives all providers the same data. There is no difference.

Eir retail ignores certain parts of that data and hence gives you wrong results. Even if the Eir retail checker tells you that you can order, they still can't order your connection before the "Ready for order" date from OpenEIR. They just don't tell you that it's going to take quite a while.

Sure, there's no harm on sitting on your contract.

This is not a problem with OpenEIR. This is a problem with the individual provider not looking at or presenting the data right.

/M

Poulgorm

Damn it Marlow, you have ruined my day . I had just got all excited thinking that I was going to get FTTH in a matter of days, now you tell me it may be weeks or a few months away.

Marlow

Poulgorm wrote: »

Damn it Marlow, you have ruined my day . I had just got all excited thinking that I was going to get FTTH in a matter of days, now you tell me it may be weeks or a few months away.

Erhmm .. you mean that Eir retail have ruined your day. It's hardly my fault for pointing out the obvious.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Poulgorm wrote: »

Damn it Marlow, you have ruined my day . I had just got all excited thinking that I was going to get FTTH in a matter of days, now you tell me it may be weeks or a few months away.

It was the same for me. It just means that eir will accept pre orders for your Eircode and then schedule an install after the Ready For Order (RFO) date which in your case seems to be the 7th of November.

Poulgorm

Well, I am not going with Eir anyway - had a horrendous billing issue with them before. I will contact my chosen supplier on Monday and see if they will accept a pre-order. You never know, I might still have it by Christmas. Fingers crossed.

godskitchen

Quick question for anyone who has done this or can offer advice...

The 2 boxes that are supplied by the installers (KN) for a Eir ftth install, one of those boxes is powered?

I want to keep those boxes outside the house inside a waterproof box that is recessed into the house external wall. There is cat 5 to this box but no power, how can I go about powering the eir component that needs power? Has anyone used a poe injector?

Marlow

godskitchen wrote: »

Quick question for anyone who has done this or can offer advice...

The 2 boxes that are supplied by the installers (KN) for a Eir ftth install, one of those boxes is powered?

I want to keep those boxes outside the house inside a waterproof box that is recessed into the house external wall. There is cat 5 to this box but no power, how can I go about powering the eir component that needs power? Has anyone used a poe injector?

You need a stabilized feed of 12V for the ONT. If you have a PoE solution that will do that, then that should work.

Also it's only 1 box and a cradle these days. The ODP is now a cradle, that holds the ONT.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

godskitchen wrote: »

Quick question for anyone who has done this or can offer advice...

The 2 boxes that are supplied by the installers (KN) for a Eir ftth install, one of those boxes is powered?

I want to keep those boxes outside the house inside a waterproof box that is recessed into the house external wall. There is cat 5 to this box but no power, how can I go about powering the eir component that needs power? Has anyone used a poe injector?

The HG8010H ONT I have does not support POE as far as I know. Also it is designed to be inside. Having it in an external wall could lead to issues with condensation and the ONT eventually failing. The installer may refuse to install it in the external wall.

Marlow

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

The HG8010H ONT I have does not support POE as far as I know. Also it is designed to be inside. Having it in an external wall could lead to issues with condensation and the ONT eventually failing. The installer may refuse to install it in the external wall.

None of the ONTs do. But you can get PoE solutions, where you inject PoE on one side and then get ethernet and out on another unit the other side.

The issue is just, that I've seen none of those, that are Gbit/s capable. Gonna be tricky, as all 4 pairs already are in use for data.

The easiest is just to run a power feed out.

/M

ED E

If you've two CAT5 cables to that point sacrifice one for DCV and keep the other for data.

babi-hrse

You will need to have a proper waterproof box and a willing engineer. Condensation would be a real issue. Maybe screw a Tupperware lunch box inside the etu and keep it enclosed dunno about the thermal runaway I dunno if the Onts heat up much. I've only ever installed outside a premises once and not likely to do it again the only reason I did it after much deliberation was because
A the junction box was airtight and housed electrical sockets that didn't so much as have a spider in it and was several years old it and was built for electric gates and housed two 220v wall sockets inside.
B there already was a modem wired in there on the ADSL copper network.
C the people who's business it was running to was involved in communications engineering and electrical and understood the technology and had their own fibre splicers and promised they would move it up to the premises with their own run.
D they had a dedicated cat6 cable going all the way in.
So the short answer is your not likely to get someone to do it for you. You could however get it put in properly then dismantle it and reconnect outside and close up the holeafter the engineer leaves. that way the tech did what he was supposed to do and it's on you if it stops working down the line as the job was completed to cpi standards.

godskitchen

Thanks for all the replies. Would the installer leave enough cable to allow the boxes to be put up in the attic at a later stage? ..... Its maybe about 20m of extra cable, to be on the safe side. Or what cable is it and I will see about ordering it?

babi-hrse

godskitchen wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. Would the installer leave enough cable to allow the boxes to be put up in the attic at a later stage? ..... Its maybe about 20m of extra cable, to be on the safe side. Or what cable is it and I will see about ordering it?

If he can leave the excess cable outside as there's restrictions about not coming in more than 1 meter into a living space. If there's a junction box in ground outside he can coil up a fair few meters and leave in in there as slack.
You'll just have to be sure to open the junction box and have a mate keep and eye on the coil as you draw it through. You don't really want to be reefing it when it's got itself kinked at the mouth of the ducting. If you lay your house with PVC pipes going across attic with a drawstring the tech will be happy to use it. No tight 90 degree bends though.
Installers are not allowed to work on the roof or in an unfloored attic. They are allowed to bring fibre across a non living space so if the attic has the Crawlspace off to the side with preferably a pipe going across with string in they can bring fibre through that across attic. However the intended is not allowed be installed up there unless it's a living space visible at all times.

babi-hrse

godskitchen wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. Would the installer leave enough cable to allow the boxes to be put up in the attic at a later stage? ..... Its maybe about 20m of extra cable, to be on the safe side. Or what cable is it and I will see about ordering it?

There are various types going about not but the most common one I've seen is 3m.
If your install is a simple install fibre from 1 pole through duct to house or overhead from pole to house and it's not coming off 2 or 3 poles down the road. You could always ask the installer can you get your appointment rescheduled or come back later on if he can give you the lenght of cable required to get it through provided he can see no issues with the path you intend to take.

godskitchen

Thanks all,

It is a friends house. The run from the pole to the house is 105m in an underground duct with pull cord in it.

It's a new build with no existing service.

I didn't know them when they were building as I would have suggested setting up the entry point to the house differently to what has been done.

The fibre would ideally be in the attic as it will look awful where the current dpu is located.

Attic is floored so I might see if they can run another pull cord from the outside box to where they want it in the loft.

I know what some of the kn lads are like so I understand it needs to be made as easy as possible.

cnocbui

godskitchen wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. Would the installer leave enough cable to allow the boxes to be put up in the attic at a later stage? ..... Its maybe about 20m of extra cable, to be on the safe side. Or what cable is it and I will see about ordering it?

I was able to get my install done in the attic - as you can see here.

I told the installer that I only agreed to sign up for fibre because the sales people had told me that the cable could likely be run from the pole on my property to the chimney, so that I could install the router mid-house. He unsurprisingly said he wouldn't do that. I then suggested that if he left a coil of fibre on my pole, and came back in a day or so, there would be fibre poking out of the wall inside so he could finish the install.

He nixed that. We then talked about running the cable to the wall from the pole. I basically said that there wasn't going to be a fibre install if that was the only option. So we talked about following the existing route of the copper phone line. That enters the boiler room, low on the wall runs up and into the attic, then across to mid house. I said I would be happy to do the attic bit and then asked about the size of the plug on the end of the fibre with the notion of my pulling it back up the wall duct to the attic so I could relocate the install to the attic as I didn't want the fibre install mess inside. He then said he wouldn't mind installing it in the attic and that he had done that with his own home.

I think it helped that I had everything to hand to make it possible and actually the easiest option - screwing into wood is a lot easier than a block wall - I had ducting the fibre could be threaded through and left on the ground for me to bury later, I had the loft wired with a power socket close by. I had a suitable power board to hand and a floodlight in the loft to see by and there were boards to stand on. I even had my own ladder in place.

babi-hrse

cnocbui wrote: »

I was able to get my install done in the attic - as you can see here.

I told the installer that I only agreed to sign up for fibre because the sales people had told me that the cable could likely be run from the pole on my property to the chimney, so that I could install the router mid-house. He unsurprisingly said he wouldn't do that. I then suggested that if he left a coil of fibre on my pole, and came back in a day or so, there would be fibre poking out of the wall inside so he could finish the install.

He nixed that. We then talked about running the cable to the wall from the pole. I basically said that there wasn't going to be a fibre install if that was the only option. So we talked about following the existing route of the copper phone line. That enters the boiler room, low on the wall runs up and into the attic, then across to mid house. I said I would be happy to do the attic bit and then asked about the size of the plug on the end of the fibre with the notion of my pulling it back up the wall duct to the attic so I could relocate the install to the attic as I didn't want the fibre install mess inside. He then said he wouldn't mind installing it in the attic and that he had done that with his own home.

I think it helped that I had everything to hand to make it possible and actually the easiest option - screwing into wood is a lot easier than a block wall - I had ducting the fibre could be threaded through and left on the ground for me to bury later, I had the loft wired with a power socket close by. I had a suitable power board to hand and a floodlight in the loft to see by and there were boards to stand on. I even had my own ladder in place.

Yep the board approach is best if your planning to relocate. And alot easier to mount. The hole diameter to take the fibre back out with end splice would probably need to be 13mm. If you have the fibre running in the loft non living space he can coil some up and tape it leave it hanging from a nail on the rafters. I have done that for people who opt for it to be installed in a partially converted attic but they wish to string it across to the unconverted part and remount the board after conversion and electrical outlets put in. I take them at their word.

babi-hrse

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

You are correct. They will try to follow the copper path. They will not use the ESB ducting as far as I know.

It's not so much as an issue with ESB duct but ESB ducts tend to go to ESB poles not telegraph poles eir cannot string fibre lines onto ESB poles and ESB cannot string cables to eir poles.
If you have your ESB duct running to telegraph pole something else is wrong altogether.
I always tell people the engineer won't mind if you havn't completely buried a duct. Running a duct along a garden hedge and tied back is fine by us. As long as when it approaches the house it's in a channel to be covered up. Their only concern is can it be tripped over... Can a hedge trimmer accidentally cut it. The cable isn't allowed to go freestyle. So having a blocked duct isn't the worst thing if you have a boundary hedge running up to the pole. All you might have to do is get a long section of pipe from a builders yard and at worst case borrow a consaw from a friend to make a channel to put pipe recessed into concrete path at side of house.

tsue921i8wljb3

cnocbui wrote: »

There were a few offcuts from my install. I broke out the macro lens and thought someone might be interested to see what is doing the job:

There are some other inner protective sleeves I have excluded. The fibre is tiny in diameter. It's the clear glass bit at the end of the yellow strand. The black outer protective jacket contains two embeded strands of what I take to be Dyneema - a very high molecular weight plastic with a very low modulus of elasticity and a tensile strength higher than carbon fiber and many times that of steel, by weight. It's also is very light and will float in water.

The cable also contains a great shank of kevlar fibre for tensile strength protection. Despite that, I am anticipating a prolonged and complete loss of service when we next get a significant storm as these cables are strung so tight you would think they were using them to support the poles. When the poles start thrashing about in a gale... fingers crossed.

You don't happen to have the cable identification markings that would be printed on the cable?

fritzelly

Marlow wrote: »

http://irelandoffline.org/ is probably the best place, where something like that would be placed.

They already have an excellent broadband map: http://irelandoffline.org/map/#!/map

So it might be worth engaging them and see, if they're interested in hosting an impartial list of irish providers including a proper tagging of what services they host.

/M

Could throw a web page up tomorrow if anyone is interested in furnishing the info.

babi-hrse

I can find a certification of the
Fibre cable this could be me opening a whole can of worms. I don't know how to read it but I can print the details from the manufacturer.
The glass is made by corning.
The fibre is more robust that people think it can bend backwards at 4 times it's width with is probably at .5mm but bends result in lower decibels so that's why it doesn't get bent so harshly.

The newer cable has a white insulated core feels like a soft plastic. Much like white poly so it may be possible to bring the fibre further in if there is proper trunking to protect it

tsue921i8wljb3

babi-hrse wrote: »

I can find a certification of the v
Fibre cable this could be me opening a whole can of worms. I don't know how to read it but I can print the details from the manufacturer.
The glass is made by corning. The same as gorilla glass

It is the cable used for underground installations I am interested in. I have posted the datasheet for the 3M figure of 8 overhead cable several times in the thread.

I'm not sure why you'd be opening a can of worms.

Marlow

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

It is the cable used for underground installations I am interested in.

I might have a cut off of an installation. Take me a day or two, to find it, but if I do, I'll let you know.

/M

babi-hrse

Marlow wrote: »

I might have a cut off of an installation. Take me a day or two, to find it, but if I do, I'll let you know.

/M

Marlow if you got your installation done more than two months ago the cable has changed since. To what extent I'm not sure the fibre maybe still the same the cladding maybe the same the Kevlar jacket is different. Techs are getting different stock as product changes.
What you may have gotten installed the person down the road maybe getting a different product it will do the same as yours but the make up of the shielding may be different. Right now it's a black Kevlar jacket with Saran wool fibre a white inner spongy plastic with another layer of Saran wool and a red cladding before fibre. The white inner spongey leads me to believe one can bring the fibre into the premises as it was the black poly that was the reason it could not be brought into the premises due to some obscure insurance rules about black poly burning off toxic fumes during a house fire. White poly is for indoor use whilst black poly for external use only. So it may be possible to bring it further the question hasn't been asked.

babi-hrse

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

It is the cable used for underground installations I am interested in. I have posted the datasheet for the 3M figure of 8 overhead cable several times in the thread.

I'm not sure why you'd be opening a can of worms.

The new cable is for both ug and oh installations

Marlow

babi-hrse wrote: »

Marlow if you got your installation done more than two months ago the cable has changed since. To what extent I'm not sure the fibre maybe still the same the cladding maybe the same the Kevlar jacket is different. Techs are getting different stock as product changes.

I deal with installations every week. And you're not even that lucky .. (or you might). They are still installing the old stock cabling in some areas. My own gaff got the old thin flimsy overhead installation just start of this month, while the new ones was supposed to be used.

The stuff SIRO are using for overhead is hell of a lot better.

/M

cnocbui

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

You don't happen to have the cable identification markings that would be printed on the cable?

13/08/2018 AOOME(?) 1XG657A OPENEIR 06358M

That's as near as I can make out on the abraded bit I have to hand. I can pop up into the loft for a look at a hopefully more pristine sample if that doesn't seem right.