Eir rural FTTH thread II

Marlow

tuxy wrote: »

Agreed, I don't like anything about it. All I can do is take the the free odroid and hope I contribute to their downfall.

Enjoy. They're a NICE piece of kit. I've got some of the very early Odroids. Think I've even got a X2 flying about somewhere. With the X3 they got real advanced.

I have a few XU3 and XU4's for experiment and little embedded projects.

/M

9726_9726

Marlow wrote: »

I've been working with advanced mesh networks for years. The noise floor on those, depending on the size of the network, varies from 300 kbit/s to 2 Mbit/s.

If you're on an old ADSL1 line, that's an absulote no go.

This however is nonsense. The cost to operators and networks just to having to accomodate to run speedtests and bandwidth tests it's pure and utter insanity, when a service like that reaches several 100GB/month.

300GB+ is basically a 1-2 Mbit/s noisefloor. More like 2 Mbit/s. That's before you transmit any traffic. And it's also upload.

/M

People don't realise that so-called speed "tests" are bandwidth-floods that pump dummy data down all links between the client device and the server, flooding everything along the way, until the slowest part reaches saturation. There is a rediculous overhead from this activity, which uses up valuable bandwidth that could be used for proper payload. On many networks, you and all of your speed testy buddies are using up shared space that impacts others, too. (DOCSIS, mobile, FWA, etc).

Plus there are those who will do speed tests while there is background data running and will think they are getting (total_bandwidth - background_traffic) speed. [facepalm].

Openeir wholesale products are essentially not unlimited, in that they charge for 95th percentile traffic. So a device like what Marlow spelled out above, causing a 1-2Mbps background transfer, if used by all customers, would cause the wholesale price from OE to the ISP to go up by about €5.77 ex VAT per Mbps per month per subscriber (from memory).

So... Excessive speedtesting has an impact on costs and hence prices. It can also have a detrimental effect on service quality generally.

Marlow

9726_9726 wrote: »

Openeir wholesale products are essentially not unlimited, in that they charge for 95th percentile traffic. So a device like what Marlow spelled out above, causing a 1-2Mbps background transfer, if used by all customers, would cause the wholesale price from OE to the ISP to go up by about €5.77 ex VAT per Mbps per month per subscriber (from memory).

A thing, I came to appreciate moving to Ireland, was that every single internet provider specified the contention of the product they were selling.

It's not something you see in a lot of other countries.

Obviously, it wasn't good for sales and Eir were the first to abandon it .. at the same time they also stopped telling people what upload they were getting and calling it all "unlimited" .. (with the hidden stuff in the terms and conditions).

So we went from pretty darn decent (not speed wise, but marketing wise) to down right crap. Very few ISPs in Ireland these days tell you the upload speed, nevermind the contention of their products. With FTTH it has improved a wee bit, but not a whole lot.

/M

Johnboy1951

9726_9726 wrote: »

People don't realise that so-called speed "tests" are bandwidth-floods that pump dummy data down all links between the client device and the server, flooding everything along the way, until the slowest part reaches saturation. There is a rediculous overhead from this activity, which uses up valuable bandwidth that could be used for proper payload. On many networks, you and all of your speed testy buddies are using up shared space that impacts others, too. (DOCSIS, mobile, FWA, etc).

Plus there are those who will do speed tests while there is background data running and will think they are getting (total_bandwidth - background_traffic) speed. [facepalm].

Openeir wholesale products are essentially not unlimited, in that they charge for 95th percentile traffic. So a device like what Marlow spelled out above, causing a 1-2Mbps background transfer, if used by all customers, would cause the wholesale price from OE to the ISP to go up by about €5.77 ex VAT per Mbps per month per subscriber (from memory).

So... Excessive speedtesting has an impact on costs and hence prices. It can also have a detrimental effect on service quality generally.

Well if the ISP can find an easy and reliable method of informing the user about their connection speed at regular intervals ...... one that customers can believe ...... then they would seem to have a very good reason to do so, besides facilitating the customer.

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Well if the ISP can find an easy and reliable method of informing the user about their connection speed at regular intervals ...... one that customers can believe ...... then they would seem to have a very good reason to do so, besides facilitating the customer.

Sure ... and then the next salesguy comes around, tells you it's a lot of bollix .. and that's the end of it.

Honestly. I sometimes think the requirement of getting an internet connection should be a "computer driving license". The majority of customers take any gospel to change providers.

Sorry ... but what you want does exist, but doesn't work, because wishful thinking. Speedtest.net works perfectly well ... if people would follow the guidelines and apply just a wee bit of common sense.There is no foolproof solution. Once you come up with that, people invent better (more stupid) fools.

It's like being on the road. You'd really wonder how some of the people out there ever managed to get their driving license. Or insurance for that sake.

/M

Calhoun

Marlow wrote: »

Sure ... and then the next salesguy comes around, tells you it's a lot of bollix .. and that's the end of it.

Honestly. I sometimes think the requirement of getting an internet connection should be a "computer driving license". The majority of customers take any gospel to change providers.

Sorry ... but what you want does exist, but doesn't work, because wishful thinking. Speedtest.net works perfectly well ... if people would follow the guidelines and apply just a wee bit of common sense.There is no foolproof solution. Once you come up with that, people invent better (more stupid) fools.

It's like being on the road. You'd really wonder how some of the people out there ever managed to get their driving license. Or insurance for that sake.

/M

My inlaws were looking to switch to fibre the same time i did, recommended them airwire because of the excellent experience i got and i did research on the alternatives.

Of course the cheap bastards end up going with a provider that did free install. The difference between our installs was i ordered and had internet within a week they had to wait a month because the install was ****ed up twice (engineer cut the house phone in addition to the delay). They are also now locked into a 18 month contract.

So yah if i could thank this twice i would.

Johnboy1951

Marlow wrote: »

Sure ... and then the next salesguy comes around, tells you it's a lot of bollix .. and that's the end of it.

I don't follow that ...... unless you believe the majority of people believe only the last thing they heard from a salesperson.

Honestly. I sometimes think the requirement of getting an internet connection should be a "computer driving license". The majority of customers take any gospel to change providers.

They might use any excuse when speaking to their ISP's salesperson, but they usually have a good reason for changing.

Have these 'European computer driving licences' improved over the last decade or so?
Last one I saw was a Microsoft teaching aid for their products dressed up as 'computer' knowledge. That surely would not be helpful as just about all MS consumer products are designed to obfuscate and keep the user in ignorance.

Sorry ... but what you want does exist, but doesn't work, because wishful thinking. Speedtest.net works perfectly well ... if people would follow the guidelines and apply just a wee bit of common sense.There is no foolproof solution. Once you come up with that, people invent better (more stupid) fools.

People have had decades of fluctuating speeds and are thus used to the necessity of doing speed tests when some problem arises with connections.
This has long been a necessity because it often was the cause of problems.
You cannot blame customers for adopting this attitude due to the failure of the provider to supply a reliable and non-fluctuating connection.

Providing a connection speed indicator to the customer would help break that previously necessary habit.

Doing so would not only help the customer, but also apparently help the provider to save money, particularly on unlimited connections.

It's like being on the road. You'd really wonder how some of the people out there ever managed to get their driving license. Or insurance for that sake.

/M

..... and you meet some people who apparently cannot appreciate where habits come from and why they are now ingrained.
The providers caused these habits to form and they should help break them, for everyones benefit.

.

Johnboy1951

Calhoun wrote: »

My inlaws were looking to switch to fibre the same time i did, recommended them airwire because of the excellent experience i got and i did research on the alternatives.

Of course the cheap bastards end up going with a provider that did free install. The difference between our installs was i ordered and had internet within a week they had to wait a month because the install was ****ed up twice (engineer cut the house phone in addition to the delay). They are also now locked into a 18 month contract.

So yah if i could thank this twice i would.

Reminds me of a rather apt quote ...

Truly I tell you, no prophet is accepted in his hometown.

[Luke 4:24]

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I
..... and you meet some people who apparently cannot appreciate where habits come from and why they are now ingrained.
The providers caused these habits to form and they should help break them, for everyones benefit.

.

Some providers have. Not all of them.

The issue is lack of common sense. There are tons of ways, that you can testing your speed, if you're just a litte bit tech savvy. No issue there. And it's easier these days than it has been ever.

Matter of fact, the majority of issues people have these days are NOT their internet connection. It's if they are 3 rooms from the wifi-router, then wifi is going to be **** due to insulation. Or if they have a baby-monitor operating on the same fequency, it's going to swamp wifi and that's not going to work. It's their perception.

They don't understand, if the 2 x-boxes in the house are downloading massive updates, then there's nothing left. So the first thing they do is complaining to the provider, that their internet is sh*t and threaten the provider with cancelling.

They complain, that it's not possible to stream YouTube on 2 devices, while they're running Netflix on a third, when they only pay for 2Mbit/s for 30 EUR, when they could have 20-50 Mbit/s for 50 EUR from the same provider.

That's the reality these days, I'm afraid.

It's not that people get screwed. It's that people have either the wrong idea of what the internet they're paying for is capable of or that they want all for nothing.

/M

9726_9726

Marlow wrote: »

Matter of fact, the majority of issues people have these days are NOT their internet connection. It's if they are 3 rooms from the wifi-router, then wifi is going to be **** due to insulation. Or if they have a baby-monitor operating on the same fequency, it's going to swamp wifi and that's not going to work. It's their perception.

They don't understand, if the 2 x-boxes in the house are downloading massive updates, then there's nothing left. So the first thing they do is complaining to the provider, that their internet is sh*t and threaten the provider with cancelling.

They complain, that it's not possible to stream YouTube on 2 devices, while they're running Netflix on a third, when they only pay for 2Mbit/s for 30 EUR, when they could have 20-50 Mbit/s for 50 EUR from the same provider.

That's the reality these days, I'm afraid.


/M

Agreed, Marlow.

I can say, from direct experience, that 9/10 speed calls to ISP helpdesks are either:

- people maxing their bandwidth with other data *while* doing speed tests with the little overhead that's left then complaining that they are getting the number on the speed test screen, not the aggregate of all of the throughput

- people doing speed tests over WiFi, which is a waste of electricity

I understand that the first is an education issue. The second is also, plus some people don't have an RJ45 ethernet equipped device. These people literally have no way to do a valid speed test.

In both of the above cases, if the ISP has some method to do an iPerf bandwidth rest to the CPE (some do) and their helpdesks does this, the user never believes them, only the faulty (one of the above) speed tests that they have done and will always accuse the ISP of lying to them. Somewhere I've done a bit of work actually emails iPerf results output to these speed testers, but they don't accept them, usually and think they are forged.

You will alsways see posts saying "my speed is bad but they keep telling me it is fine". That's what happens when the ISP test (legit) is actually fine. It just goes around and around and there is no fault. Then the customer switches and gets the same, perfectly functioning broadband from someone else, but the same flawed test method continues to give poor results.

Of course in some cases, there is a fault but as Marlow said, these are in the minority.

So a reliable testing method would actually benefit everyone and save countless hours.

For the punter, the nearest they can get is a wired test with no WiFi connected devices at all. But most are too lazy to do this - and will actually refuse if asked by helpdesks.

I do think that in 10 years time, when everyone has decent connections, the culture of speed tests will be defunct.

As long as there is enough bandwidth to run all apps in the house, people just won't think about it anymore.

Johnboy1951

Marlow wrote: »

Some providers have. Not all of them.

I didn't claim ALL ...... but then there was only one major and that one certainly did.

The issue is lack of common sense. There are tons of ways, that you can testing your speed, if you're just a litte bit tech savvy. No issue there. And it's easier these days than it has been ever.

There is a huge difference between 'common sense' and being even a little 'tech savvy', which you do not seem to appreciate.

Matter of fact, the majority of issues people have these days are NOT their internet connection. It's if they are 3 rooms from the wifi-router, then wifi is going to be **** due to insulation. Or if they have a baby-monitor operating on the same fequency, it's going to swamp wifi and that's not going to work. It's their perception.

Yes I have already pointed that out.
That is THESE days when more and more connections are on fibre or cable or such and are ultra reliable.

They don't understand, if the 2 x-boxes in the house are downloading massive updates, then there's nothing left. So the first thing they do is complaining to the provider, that their internet is sh*t and threaten the provider with cancelling.

Correct .... because traditionally that is the only thing that worked for decades to get providers to correct problem connections. So a general habit has been formed which is difficult to break.

They complain, that it's not possible to stream YouTube on 2 devices, while they're running Netflix on a third, when they only pay for 2Mbit/s for 30 EUR, when they could have 20-50 Mbit/s for 50 EUR from the same provider.

That's the reality these days, I'm afraid.

Exactly what I have been posting about.
BUT .... how do you propose to reverse that?

I suggest that a display of the connection details on the providers equipment would go a heck of a long way.
You seem to disagree but have not proposed any alternative.

It's not that people get screwed. It's that people have either the wrong idea of what the internet they're paying for is capable of or that they want all for nothing.
/M

I never suggested people are getting deliberately screwed by the providers.

I did say that providers over the decades are partly (mostly?) responsible for the present situation with users misconceptions.
Even today there is new advertising for products which make all sorts of claims without once pointing out (except in the tiny print if you can find it) that there are limitations.

So users 'unreasonable' expectations can be firmly laid at that door!


I suggest a simple means of overcoming the greater part of the problem ...... have the provided hardware display the connection details to the user.

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I suggest that a display of the connection details on the providers equipment would go a heck of a long way.
You seem to disagree but have not proposed any alternative.

Nah. I don't disagree. I actually talked to SIRO at some point, if you couldn't get Ubiquity ONTs certified on their platform. Didn't get far with that, I'm afraid.

And the other solution is Mikrotik routers (the 2011, 3011 and CCR models). They have a display. But they are not userfriendly to configure and the wifi on them is a bit meh.

The ones with good wifi (HAP ac and the upcoming 4011) don't have a display. So now you're back to square one.

/M

_sheep

Guys apologies if this has been addressed recently, but I've been following this thread for a while but may have missed it. How does contention work on FTTH?

I'm guessing from the talk of rogue ONT units affecting up to 4 DPs, then 4 connections of each of these that connection is split at least 16 ways? What is the maximum bandwidth then available to each 'cluster' of contending users?

cnocbui

So much supposed reliability of FTTH. Since being connected I have now had to reboot the F2000 router 3 times in four weeks. It's less reliable than copper ADSL if this keeps up.

tuxy

cnocbui wrote: »

So much supposed reliability of FTTH. Since being connected I have now had to reboot the F2000 router 3 times in four weeks. It's less reliable than copper ADSL if this keeps up.

Is this an issue with FTTH or poor quality router? You get a low tier router if you go with EIr, it's not the same for other providers.

Marlow

_sheep wrote: »

Guys apologies if this has been addressed recently, but I've been following this thread for a while but may have missed it. How does contention work on FTTH?

I'm guessing from the talk of rogue ONT units affecting up to 4 DPs, then 4 connections of each of these that connection is split at least 16 ways? What is the maximum bandwidth then available to each 'cluster' of contending users?

32 possible connections in a cluster, of which it seems that OpenEIR only use 31.

2.5 Gbit/s downstream and 1.25 Gbit/s upstream total bandwidth in the cluster. That's full duplex, so download does not contend upload.

So you're pretty much guaranteed 80 Mbit/s download at that point, if all was equal. Contention upstream from that depends on the ISP.

/M

Marlow

cnocbui wrote: »

So much supposed reliability of FTTH. Since being connected I have now had to reboot the F2000 router 3 times in four weeks. It's less reliable than copper ADSL if this keeps up.

tuxy wrote: »

Is this an issue with FTTH or poor quality router? You get a low tier router if you go with EIr, it's not the same for other providers.

Yeah. That's not a FTTH problem. That's a router problem. It's down to your choice of provider

/M

Johnboy1951

9726_9726 wrote: »

Agreed, Marlow.

I can say, from direct experience, that 9/10 speed calls to ISP helpdesks are either:

- people maxing their bandwidth with other data *while* doing speed tests with the little overhead that's left then complaining that they are getting the number on the speed test screen, not the aggregate of all of the throughput

- people doing speed tests over WiFi, which is a waste of electricity

Yes we can all agree on that.

I understand that the first is an education issue. The second is also, plus some people don't have an RJ45 ethernet equipped device. These people literally have no way to do a valid speed test.

True, but not only an education issue.

It is a matter of providing to the customer, the required details, in an easily accessible manner.

In both of the above cases, if the ISP has some method to do an iPerf bandwidth rest to the CPE (some do) and their helpdesks does this, the user never believes them, only the faulty (one of the above) speed tests that they have done and will always accuse the ISP of lying to them. Somewhere I've done a bit of work actually emails iPerf results output to these speed testers, but they don't accept them, usually and think they are forged.

Of course the customer does not believe what they are told.
Read the threads on boards to see why!
Lies, lies and damned lies is what have been told to customers over the years.

It is long past the time for providers to take responsibility for what has been going on for many years.

Yes I know this is not the case with newer providers, but they are new and even the majority of their customers have formed habits over the years, based on their experiences with other providers.

These habits need to be broken and the providers are in the position to do most about it.

You will alsways see posts saying "my speed is bad but they keep telling me it is fine". That's what happens when the ISP test (legit) is actually fine. It just goes around and around and there is no fault. Then the customer switches and gets the same, perfectly functioning broadband from someone else, but the same flawed test method continues to give poor results.

Of course in some cases, there is a fault but as Marlow said, these are in the minority.

'Just because some faceless cs body says so is no reason to believe it' ...... that is the experience of most people dealing with those people over decades.
In fact experience will have shown it is best to NOT believe them as they traditionally have either lied or lied by omission or just generally tried almost anything to get rid of the immediate problem of that contact.

That experience is all down to the provider/s.

That is the habit/expectation that has to be broken ...... but it can only be broken if that type of treatment of customers is eliminated.

So a reliable testing method would actually benefit everyone and save countless hours.

Yes it would, except for those providers who have CS personnel who tend to mislead the customer.

For the punter, the nearest they can get is a wired test with no WiFi connected devices at all. But most are too lazy to do this - and will actually refuse if asked by helpdesks.

I doubt your claim that this is laziness.
As anyone who has had the misfortune to have to deal with some helpdesks, they have been, in the majority, the most unhelpful people one could deal with.

That a customer refuses to go through the list of tests on the CS person's sheet ...... for the third or fourth time ....... is hardly surprising.
That is not laziness. It is frustration.

I do think that in 10 years time, when everyone has decent connections, the culture of speed tests will be defunct.

As long as there is enough bandwidth to run all apps in the house, people just won't think about it anymore.

Maybe it will take 10 years to break the habits and expectations of customers.
Maybe it will take 20 years.
Maybe it could be done in 4 years if the information was provided reliably and in an easily accessible form.

In any case the problem exists now.
It is a problem for the providers.

A display on providers equipment providing connection information would go a very long way to reducing the problem.
It would reduce support calls due to lack of correct information.
It would reduce unnecessary bandwidth use due to overuse of speed tests.
Most of all it would give the user a point of reference which is not dependent on correctly completing any tasks to get a proper speed test.


If there is an alternative means of breaking this habit of unnecessary speed tests, and unwarranted calls to CS, I have yet to hear it proposed.

BUT ..... it will not work on its own. Providers must also be prepared to treat users properly, and deal with queries in a timely and decent manner.
Some providers do this, and they get praised for it - quite correctly.

Unfortunately that is not the experience of the majority of end users.


EDIT: It just might be sufficient for the provider to do testing during non-use time of the connection, on request, through a user accessible website or account, and email the result with time, date, connection details and other relevant information.

That too could go a long way to helping, and would be much easier implement than some hardware change/addition.



.

cnocbui

tuxy wrote: »

Is this an issue with FTTH or poor quality router? You get a low tier router if you go with EIr, it's not the same for other providers.

It's a system so only as good as it's weakest link. I do appreciate it's the fault of the router. I got cold called by Eir sales people and really should have done more research. I did decline them when they first tried to sign me up but relented this time as my son obviously wanted it.

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I doubt your claim that this is laziness.
As anyone who has had the misfortune to have to deal with some helpdesks, they have been, in the majority, the most unhelpful people one could deal with.

Again. Habits or not. You can not just blame all providers. And the ones you refer to as "new" aren't new at all. They may be new to you.

A lot of regional providers came on board providing FTTH in the last 2 years. But they're not new providers. They've been around for 10-15 years.

If you as a consumer go in with the assumption, that the ISP is lying to you, even after you switched provider to a new one, then it's only your own fault.

I mean, once you see the same issue, even after switching provider, maybe you should re-consider that it could be on your side.

It's actually what providers have to tell customers sometimes to break the habbit: "sure .. you can change provides, but your issue is still your router/the way you test/etc. .... so you won't fix your problem by changing. You can either go through the troubleshooting with us or stick with your problem".

Often only then consumers cop on and go through the steps of troubleshooting.

/M

cnocbui

Marlow wrote: »

Yeah. That's not a FTTH problem. That's a router problem. It's down to your choice of provider

/M

Perfectly true, but it does mean Eir are being dicks supplying the F2000.

Marlow

cnocbui wrote: »

Perfectly true, but it does mean Eir are being dicks supplying the F2000.

If they can't fix it, get a better router. At least there's no issue setting better routers up with FTTH and getting rid of the F2000. Unless you have their Phone/TV option. Then you're in trouble.

/M

tuxy

cnocbui wrote: »

It's a system so only as good as it's weakest link. I do appreciate it's the fault of the router. I got cold called by Eir sales people and really should have done more research. I did decline them when they first tried to sign me up but relented this time as my son obviously wanted it.

Same happened to me and I'm counting down the days to switch form Eir. I've had no issues though since I switched out the F2000 for my own router but it's always in the back of my mind that I'm screwed if I have an issue, I've dealt with Eir's customer care before and I pray I don't have to again before my contract is up.

Johnboy1951

Marlow wrote: »

Again. Habits or not. You can not just blame all providers. And the ones you refer to as "new" aren't new at all. They may be new to you.

A lot of regional providers came on board providing FTTH in the last 2 years. But they're not new providers. They've been around for 10-15 years.

If you as a consumer go in with the assumption, that the ISP is lying to you, even after you switched provider to a new one, then it's only your own fault.

I mean, once you see the same issue, even after switching provider, maybe you should re-consider that it could be on your side.

It's actually what providers have to tell customers sometimes to break the habbit: "sure .. you can change provides, but your issue is still your router/the way you test/etc. .... so you won't fix your problem by changing. You can either go through the troubleshooting with us or stick with your problem".

Often only then consumers cop on and go through the steps of troubleshooting.

/M

We will agree to disagree, but I do wish you would stop implying that I said ALL providers.

The import of your posts is that it is all the customers fault for not being tech savvy and sticking to habits long ingrained.

I take a different view.

.

chris_ie

Ugh, I had planned on going with Eir for 12months due to getting BT Sport along with it and bundling 2 mobiles in with it too (current provider coverage has gone to the dogs and eir have wifi calling + better coverage out our way I believe). Figured I'd switch to Airwire then after 12 months. However, seeing all the issues people seem to be having I'm not sure whether to go with Airwire staight from the off....

cnocbui

Marlow wrote: »

If they can't fix it, get a better router. At least there's no issue setting better routers up with FTTH and getting rid of the F2000. Unless you have their Phone/TV option. Then you're in trouble.

/M

No I didn't sign up for that. I plan on emigrating shortly so I am not that troubled that I want to bother with getting a good router.

tuxy wrote: »

Same happened to me and I'm counting down the days to switch form Eir. I've had no issues though since I switched out the F2000 for my own router but it's always in the back of my mind that I'm screwed if I have an issue, I've dealt with Eir's customer care before and I pray I don't have to again before my contract is up.

Were I hanging around, I would switch from Eir too, but I suspect I might get the last laugh anyway.

tsue921i8wljb3

cnocbui wrote: »

Perfectly true, but it does mean Eir are being dicks supplying the F2000.

What exactly are the symptoms that requires rebooting? Wired or wireless connections? Have you checked the router logs for any messages?

tsue921i8wljb3

chris_ie wrote: »

Ugh, I had planned on going with Eir for 12months due to getting BT Sport along with it and bundling 2 mobiles in with it too (current provider coverage has gone to the dogs and eir have wifi calling + better coverage out our way I believe). Figured I'd switch to Airwire then after 12 months. However, seeing all the issues people seem to be having I'm not sure whether to go with Airwire staight from the off....

There is a narrative here that the F2000 is junk and should be avoided. I have not found that to be the case. It has been rock solid for me. The eir service is top notch as long as you don't have to contact their dysfunctional customer support department which you should not have to.

tuxy

chris_ie wrote: »

Ugh, I had planned on going with Eir for 12months due to getting BT Sport along with it and bundling 2 mobiles in with it too (current provider coverage has gone to the dogs and eir have wifi calling + better coverage out our way I believe). Figured I'd switch to Airwire then after 12 months. However, seeing all the issues people seem to be having I'm not sure whether to go with Airwire staight from the off....

BT sport is a joke unless you have a set top box. The web version does not support any modern browser(chrome,firefox,edge) you have to use older insecure browsers that are no longer updated.
WIFI calling may be useful but there are many VOIP services you could use as an alternative. All providers have the same access to the open eir network so eir don't have better coverage.

chris_ie

tuxy wrote: »

BT sport is a joke unless you have a set top box. The web version does not support any modern browser(chrome,firefox,edge) you have to use older insecure browsers that are no longer updated.
WIFI calling may be useful but there are many VOIP services you could use as an alternative. All providers have the same access to the open eir network so eir don't have better coverage.

BT Sport would be added to my Sky package for free with eir broadband. I didn't mean fiber coverage, what I meant was bundling the 2 mobile phones with eir aswell as eir have better mobile coverage out our way. As for voip, are there voip services that would use your existing mobile number and allow you to receive calls in a similar way to eir wifi calling, without switching to that voip service completely?