Eir rural FTTH thread II

m99T

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I wonder if we will ever see in the future FTTH installs where it doesnt require the installer to enter the house at all whatsoever - and be able to install without the houseowner having to take off time and be present at all at the time of install? - I dont know how it could be worked . Maybe some kind of external cabinet like the esb meter box and just house the ONT or something like that ... but then how to get power to run the ONT - I have just been thinking about it.

I have nothing to worry about, I have no expensive carpet or flooring in my house , but i would say no doubt there could be times when sweaty installers with muddy shoes could come to do the installs sometimes and traipse in mud inside the house and leave behind a mess of drilled walls and dust inside and you know like there are some people out there with prestige ultra clean houses that even expect their guests to take their footwear off at the front door.

in any case its still pretty archaic at the moment to expect people to take morning or afternoon off work to be there for the installer and if its a failed installed every time the installers come back the house-owners are expected to take more time off work , of how many times is needed.

am almost sure their will be a better system in place later where you wont even have to be there and wont need access in the house. and of course all new builds surely will design it so its all installed in situ and all the home owner will have to do is order their wireless router from their preferred ISP and just hook it up themselves to a point

Probably not. Not in the near future anyway. For all the same reasons that people still use wired over wireless.

However, there probably will come a time where FTTH isn't as badly managed in terms of installs. And a time where most properties have the line installed already and the only thing you need is your router posted out.

KOR101

Separately, Eir’s wholesale broadband arm has withdrawn from an industry engagement forum after carrying out a review of it. The forums were a monthly mechanism for open eir, the company’s wholesale division, and other operators to discuss issues and products they buy from Eir.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/watchdog-to-lower-cost-of-connecting-to-eir-network-psxw23zr5

Marlow

KOR101 wrote: »

Separately, Eir’s wholesale broadband arm has withdrawn from an industry engagement forum after carrying out a review of it. The forums were a monthly mechanism for open eir, the company’s wholesale division, and other operators to discuss issues and products they buy from Eir.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/watchdog-to-lower-cost-of-connecting-to-eir-network-psxw23zr5

Behind paywall, so can't read it all. But what you have quoted is correct. It's pretty much nonsense what they are doing right now. Closing all forums and all communication down. Especially for a communications company.

It's like "if we ignore the problem for a while, it'll go away"

/M

Peppa Cig

Marlow wrote: »

Have you seen the new ones ? Also, Fritz!Box can also be got in black, but it's special order.

https://en.avm.de/products/fritzbox/fritzbox-7590/

7530 will look the same.

/M

Thanks Marlow. Ordered a 7590 for use on FTTH (Eir) .
Will I need a ISP username/password or just plug and play?
Thanks

Johnboy1951

Peppa Cig wrote: »

Thanks Marlow. Ordered a 7590 for use on FTTH (Eir) .
Will I need a ISP username/password or just plug and play?
Thanks

Let us know how you get on with this and how many of its various functions you use.

Thanks.

Andy From Sligo

Peppa Cig wrote: »

Thanks Marlow. Ordered a 7590 for use on FTTH (Eir) .
Will I need a ISP username/password or just plug and play?
Thanks

I'm in no way an expert in networks , only know the basics to get me by, but if you set the vlan tag to 10 and the 802.1p to 0 and use DCHP and use it in wan mode without username and password (could be ppp or ppoe i think it is) then I think that will get u working. But the others on here should know more and give you the correct info.

babi-hrse

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I wonder if we will ever see in the future FTTH installs where it doesnt require the installer to enter the house at all whatsoever - and be able to install without the houseowner having to take off time and be present at all at the time of install? - I dont know how it could be worked . Maybe some kind of external cabinet like the esb meter box and just house the ONT or something like that ... but then how to get power to run the ONT - I have just been thinking about it.

Well it'd be possible in new builds in housing estates to run fibre up duct into etu and terminate it there make some kind of airtight rubber gasket socket for the installer to put it in then customer gets patch lead and ont along with modem in post and does the rest himself via phone call with provider. But leaves too much in the air average Joe soap hasn't really any idea what they're doing even if it seems obvious to us what your supposed to do. The provider would just get tons of calls from angry people that it must be broken.

m99T

babi-hrse wrote: »

Well it'd be possible in new builds in housing estates to run fibre up duct into etu and terminate it there make some kind of airtight rubber gasket socket for the installer to put it in then customer gets patch lead and ont along with modem in post and does the rest himself via phone call with provider. But leaves too much in the air average Joe soap hasn't really any idea what they're doing even if it seems obvious to us what your supposed to do. The provider would just get tons of calls from angry people that it must be broken.

I think you are missing a massive trick here with that thought train.

What happens when the ESB do a new install? Think of it like that. But that relies on people getting their own teclo engineer to setup their LAN. That won't happen, because people have a preconceived notion that getting internet is cheap, and im not against them for that.

Marlow

m99T wrote: »

What happens when the ESB do a new install? Think of it like that. But that relies on people getting their own teclo engineer to setup their LAN. That won't happen, because people have a preconceived notion that getting internet is cheap, and im not against them for that.

They also don't want to have to organise anything themselves. The amount of failed fibre installs that I've come across, because people can't be bothered having somebody look at their ducting is insane.

/M

m99T

Marlow wrote: »

They also don't want to have to organise anything themselves. The amount of failed fibre installs that I've come across, because people can't be bothered having somebody look at their ducting is insane.

/M

The 'Awk sure x is grand' attitude flows strong with any technology in Ireland.

Voip phone? Awk sure mobile is grand.
Fibre? Awk sure satellite is grand.
Planning Permission? Awk sure brown envelope is grand.

fritzelly

Marlow wrote: »

They also don't want to have to organise anything themselves. The amount of failed fibre installs that I've come across, because people can't be bothered having somebody look at their ducting is insane.

/M

That and people thinking its the telco's problem to get the ducting cleared for them.

Marlow

m99T wrote: »

The 'Awk sure x is grand' attitude flows strong with any technology in Ireland.

Voip phone? Awk sure mobile is grand.
Fibre? Awk sure satellite is grand.
Planning Permission? Awk sure brown envelope is grand.

More up your way than anywhere else. But things actually get sorted up that way. Tis worse in the wescht.

fritzelly wrote: »

That and people thinking its the telco's problem to get the ducting cleared for them.

That disappeared with the change in planning laws, where the builder or house owner had to put the ducting in place so that any operator can use it.

And not a lot have copped on that. The gaff i'm renting is build mid-naughties and has no ETU and no ducting of any kind, form or shape. So I was very lucky, that overhead was possible. The same way as the phone line came in. And the owners weren't even aware, that FTTH was available .. for OVER a year .. and that it would have increased the value of their premise drastically to have that in and ready.

/M

m99T

Marlow wrote: »

More up your way than anywhere else. But things actually get sorted up that way. Tis worse in the wescht.

/M

Nothing like the North, and the west. They say where they meet clocks run backwards.

Andy From Sligo

My idea of in the future they could go down the path of installer having not to enter the house or require house-owner around at time of install and no drilling of walls was something like this to have some kid of waterproof/damp proof outside cabinet maybe to house the ONT and a wireless router and then the inside of the house to be filled with lovely 802.11ac (or whatever standard would be around at that time) and just log onto the router with wireless router password as normal but then the 2 caveats I can see (and there is most probably more I haven't even thought about) is

Number 1 - the added cost, it would add a lot more on top to provide the cabinet (and who would charge? - OE or ISP?)

Number 2 getting the 230vac electricity power to power up the ONT and wireless router - how would you get electricity into the cabinet if we are not talking drilling into any walls or gaining access to the inside of the house?

tuxy

Number 3 - Flooding the wifi channels with pointless noise. You won't get a good signal like that especially at 5ghz so you will need repeaters in houses that normally do not need them.

Marlow

Andy ..

that scenario only works, if you're happy with 20 Mbit/s or less.

Wireless is for your mobile devices and connectivity on the go. It will NOT !!!! ever replace decent cabling. Of any sort, form or shape.

With a ton of unknown factors or insulation, what devices the customer is using and god knows what else, that's the worst suggestion that anyone ever could come up with.

It can't be supported from an ISP point of perspective, in any way, form or shape. If that's what you want, order 4G or 5G. There you go.

/M

tuxy

Does fast internet scare you Andy? You constantly come up with ideas to limit it to around the 20 - 40 Mbit mark?

Andy From Sligo

Is that not wildly innacurate 20-40mbps? Surely even a run of the mill wireless router at even 802.11n mode would pass through an exterior wall fine especially if the wall has no metal inside it and is normal thickness and wireless n can reach up to 350mbs (in theory) so it be fine for most people on a 150mbps ftth package wouldn't it?

tuxy

Maybe if the wall was made out of cardboard....

Andy From Sligo

tuxy wrote: »

Maybe if the wall was made out of cardboard....

which some of the newer houses are these days

Andy From Sligo

tuxy wrote: »

Does fast internet scare you Andy? You constantly come up with ideas to limit it to around the 20 - 40 Mbit mark?

I will answer that when I get it

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Is that not wildly innacurate 20-40mbps? Surely even a run of the mill wireless router at even 802.11n mode would pass through an exterior wall fine especially if the wall has no metal inside it and is normal thickness and wireless n can reach up to 350mbs (in theory) so it be fine for most people on a 150mbps ftth package wouldn't it?

If you're in the same room as the router under optimal conditions !!

The scenario you suggest already has a concrete wall with hollow core, aluminium foil backed insulation and what not between the ISP and your devices ... now you're at less than 50 Mbit/s.

/M

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

If you're in the same room as the router under optimal conditions !!

The scenario you suggest already has a concrete wall with hollow core, aluminium foil backed insulation and what not between the ISP and your devices ... now you're at less than 50 Mbit/s.

/M

ah yeah the aluminium barrier foil - I forgot about that

Cor I'd love 50mbps internet at the moment

tuxy

You forgot houses usually have insulation?

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

ah yeah the aluminium barrier foil - I forgot about that

Cor I'd love 50mbps internet at the moment

I said less. And it's going to be unreliable at that. Because even though the ISPs device might be powerful enough to give you some signal, your devices also have to break that barrier on the return. This brings us back to those sh!t ONTs with integrated sh!t wireless (opposed to freedom of choice)

And a lot of those consumer devices are sub standard. Especially when the wireless card in your PC or mobile only did cost a few quid of that entire package.

Yet, you will complain to the ISP for a sub standard service. And hence no ISP will EVER go down that route. It's not a product, that an ISP responsibly can support. Too much hassle and too unreliable.

/M

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

I said less. And it's going to be unreliable at that. Because even though the ISPs device might be powerful enough to give you some signal, your devices also have to break that barrier on the return. This brings us back to those sh!t ONTs with integrated sh!t wireless (opposed to freedom of choice)

And a lot of those consumer devices are sub standard. Especially when the wireless card in your PC or mobile only did cost a few quid of that entire package.

Yet, you will complain to the ISP for a sub standard service. And hence no ISP will EVER go down that route. It's not a product, that an ISP responsibly can support. Too much hassle and too unreliable.

/M

well I wouldnt personally ... but I can see where you are coming from

tuxy

So if you ordered 150 mbit, never mind 300/1000 and there was no possible way of you getting 150 mbit you wouldn't complain?

Andy From Sligo

tuxy wrote: »

You forgot houses usually have insulation?

insulation (bar foil backed plasterboard) being polystyrene Styrofoam/aeroboard and or fiberglass yellow crappy stuff

wireless would pass OK through that would it not?

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

insulation (bar foil backed plasterboard) being polystyrene Styrofoam/aeroboard and or fiberglass yellow crappy stuff

wireless would pass OK through that would it not?

Too many variables. You still have hollow core and concrete in the mix. It's not just the aluminium foil backed insulation. It's a LOT of things.

Fact: wireless within the same room as the router - YES. wireless anywhere beyond that - good luck !! (trial and error, but no guarantees)

NO Internet Provider will guarantee you ANY speeds on WiFi. If you have issues, you will ALWAYS be asked to test on the cable. There is a reason for that !

/M

Marlow

Andy .. give you a real life example:

my dad has 80 Mbit/s symmetric fibre broadband (not in Ireland .. for obvious reasons).

He was provided with an early gen 108 Mbit/s Wifi router (so .. 802.11g / 802.11a with turbo-mode).

His house is approx 4000 sq.ft., build in 1964. tripple glasing and 12cm rock wool insulation everywhere. Which was beyond what was the spec back then in that place, but that's neither here nor there.

His internet comes in, at the middle of the house.

He had 80 Mbit/s on the cable, about 30 Mbit/s on wireless in the same room as the router and 2 Mbit/s in the living room at the end of the house.

That's it.

Obviously, I installed 2 high-end routers (one repeating over wifi). Now he has 80 Mbit/s on cable and wifi in the adjoining rooms to the primary routers and about 20-30 Mbit/s in the living room.

Until he gets cat5e/cat6 cabling done in the house, he's never going to see any more.

/M