Eir rural FTTH thread II

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

Too many variables. You still have hollow core and concrete in the mix. It's not just the aluminium foil backed insulation. It's a LOT of things.

Fact: wireless within the same room as the router - YES. wireless anywhere beyond that - good luck !! (trial and error, but no guarantees)

NO Internet Provider will guarantee you ANY speeds on WiFi. If you have issues, you will ALWAYS be asked to test on the cable. There is a reason for that !

/M

a little modification then - using Cat5e or Cat6 Ethernet?

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

a little modification then - using Cat5e or Cat6 Ethernet?

No .. you still have massive loss on the wireless path. It's not feasable. And you're talking about a device on unlicensed spectrum, that other devices can interfere with.

Wireless (and powerline) are LAST RESORT. Not your primary feed. It's different when it's a fixed wireless connection, that is directional, with nothing inbetween and has been tweaked and rigged by professionals. And even then it's hard and expensive to get speeds of 100+ Mbit/s.

The powerline solutions we're seeing these days were originally developed for the delivery of broadband. And they were abandoned by ISPs because it was too unreliable and too expensive.

Wireless is at the absolute max of what it can deliver in unlicensed spectrum. You will never get the potential of the line your paying for.

It's like buying a Ferrari and being able to drive it 3 times a year, because you can't afford the fuel, tax and insurance.

/M

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

No .. you still have massive loss on the wireless path. It's no feasable. And you're talking about a devices on unlicensed spectrum, that other devices can interfere with.

Wireless (and powerline) are LAST RESORT. Not your primary feed. It's different when it's a fixed wireless connection, that is directional, with nothing inbetween and has been tweaked and rigged by professionals.

/M

yep - i see what you mean. So that seems to be the way of the future (although no-one has a crystal ball) but it almost seems that if you want FTTH installed (post house built without FTTH to the inside of the house) you will always have to have the installer in your house and arrange to be there when its installed .

The idea is good, but when put into practice its shíte

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

yep - i see what you mean. So that seems to be the way of the future (although no-one has a crystal ball) but it almost seems that if you want FTTH installed (post house built without FTTH to the inside of the house) you will always have to have the installer in your house and arrange to be there when its installed .

The same as ANY other utility: power, water, gas, cable-tv, etc.

Either you plan ahead for it and get it installed when you build your house or you get the installer in later to put the cable in. But it has to be done.

You don't expect to ESB to fit power and connect your house, while you're away ? it's the same thing.

There are no shortcuts, unless you want a life full of pain and expenses.

/M

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

The same as ANY other utility: power, water, gas, cable-tv, etc.

Either you plan ahead for it and get it installed when you build your house or you get the installer in later to put the cable in. But it has to be done.

You don't expect to ESB to fit power and connect your house, while you're away ? it's the same thing.

There are no shortcuts, unless you want a life full of pain and expenses.

/M

true that

m99T

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

a little modification then - using Cat5e or Cat6 Ethernet?

Please god no.

MBSnr

Is Andy designing the NBP next...?

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

a little modification then - using Cat5e or Cat6 Ethernet?

Run the CAT5 to the external cabinet and you might be on to something.

KCross

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

My idea of in the future they could go down the path of installer having not to enter the house or require house-owner around at time of install and no drilling of walls was something like this to have some kid of waterproof/damp proof outside cabinet maybe to house the ONT and a wireless router and then the inside of the house to be filled with lovely 802.11ac (or whatever standard would be around at that time) and just log onto the router with wireless router password as normal but then the 2 caveats I can see (and there is most probably more I haven't even thought about) is

You're trying to solve a "problem" that doesnt need solving.

Whats the big deal with allowing someone into your house to give you FTTH?
Its likely a once in your lifetime task that takes 2-4hrs. A few mucky boots and a drill... big deal.

If your washing machine breaks do you let the service man in to work on it. If you boiler needs servicing do you let him in to service it? You will have to allow them in many times over your life. FTTH should be once.

You're over-thinking it.

For new builds you need your architect (or yourself if you have the knowledge) to think about the right place to position the ducts and the appropriate place for the ONT and router from being damaged while maintaining the best possible WiFi signal throughout the house. If its a large house then run ethernet cable from the ONT location to the dead spots for additional AP's to be installed.

I designed/built my house about 8yrs ago and put two Cat6 cables to every room and they all come back to a patch panel and I have the ONT sitting next to that patch panel. I can put up a new AP anywhere I like in the house now if the router WiFi doesnt reach a particular room.


I just hope you get FTTH quickly because its clearly driving you nuts (meant in the best possible way)!

m99T

Lads eventually this whole ISP really only needs to touch the ETU could POSSIBLY come about in the future. But it will only come about when houses are wired with fibre optic cable in the same way they are wired with twisted pair at the moment.

Just think how far away that is though.

gofree

Hi,

Does anyone know if having a full DP (black box) with four houses connected to it does this effect the speed: download and upload you would get?

Thanks

tsue921i8wljb3

gofree wrote: »

Hi,

Does anyone know if having a full DP (black box) with four houses connected to it does this effect the speed: download and upload you would get?

Thanks

No. The cluster size is 32 which means 2.5Gb down and 1.2Gb up is shared between up to 32 homes. The fact that your nearest DP has four connections used is irrelevant as they are just part of that 32.

fritzelly

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

No. The cluster size is 32 which means 2.5Gb down and 1.2Gb up is shared between up to 32 homes. The fact that your nearest DP has four connections used is irrelevant as they are just part of that 32.

Unless everyone is downloading the internet at the same time. :rolleyes:

plodder

cnocbui wrote: »

If the dish is on a chimney they won't take the cable there.

If the chimney can be accessed from the ground with a regular ladder they will do it. It's really the roof that they don't want to touch.

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

Run the CAT5 to the external cabinet and you might be on to something.

have to drill wall then - i am trying to think how they could do a design where they could install FTTH in the future without drilling any hole in a wall and without installer having to gain entry to the house. - Maybe some smarter person than me will figure it out one day. .... or maybe not and you will always require an installer to come inside the house and install it (well for existing houses with no fibre that is - with new builds they could just have some Fibre cable in situ with the indoor ODP and just running to the outside terminal and splice the fibre coming from the DP to the outside terminal and then maybe post out the ONT for people to just join up onto the indoor ODP - I dont know.

There was a time the Electricity Reader Man/woman had to come inside the house every time they needed to take a meter reading but these days the Meter is outside in its own box and people dont need to be at home to let the electricity reader person, so thats progress on that score, they can just nip around the side/back of the house and take a reading (I am sure thats not the only reason that they moved the meters outside but that would be one of the reasons)

we - (all of us) dont know what the future holds or the way they will work it in the future (unless we can see in the future ... or have a special modified De-lorean )

Andy From Sligo

KCross wrote: »

You're trying to solve a "problem" that doesnt need solving.

Whats the big deal with allowing someone into your house to give you FTTH?
Its likely a once in your lifetime task that takes 2-4hrs. A few mucky boots and a drill... big deal.

I've no big deal with it. I have no expensive carpet or wood flooring and i dont even mind if they drill the wall and it dont look pretty or there is load of mess to clear up afterwards .... but there will be others not so accommodating maybe with all that

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

have to drill wall then - i am trying to think how they could do a design where they could install FTTH in the future without drilling any hole in a wall and without installer having to gain entry to the house.

It is possible to use some sort of spread spectrum point to point link from outside to inside, but that would be quite costly and add unnecessary complexity to the installation.
It would also require the householder to connect up a "node" in the house.

plodder

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

have to drill wall then - i am trying to think how they could do a design where they could install FTTH in the future without drilling any hole in a wall and without installer having to gain entry to the house.

It's no different from any other service like Sky. If anything the FTTH cable is a lot thinner than a Sky coax cable and it goes straight into the back of the ODP on the inside. So, you don't see it. I can't see how this internal work can ever be avoided.

Andy From Sligo

plodder wrote: »

If the chimney can be accessed from the ground with a regular ladder they will do it. It's really the roof that they don't want to touch.

wonder would they have ladders with them first time of coming out or would they not anticipate having to go up a ladder as the norm is to bring fibre through underground duct ... and so would be a 'failed install' on the first callout and would have to come back again.

I must admit i think if i had made up the rule for no installs in lofts or unusual requests/installs or climbing up to roofs/chimneys were out of bounds for the installer I think i would stick with it. there rules are put there originally for a pretty good reason .. not for rules to be bent , or you get one set of rules for one person wanting FTTH installed and different rules for others - keep it standard, thats the way .. unless its very very exceptional circumstances. ... and if the installer is given a very generous tip haha

KCross

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I've no big deal with it. I have no expensive carpet or wood flooring and i dont even mind if they drill the wall and it dont look pretty or there is load of mess to clear up afterwards .... but there will be others not so accommodating maybe with all that

If they are not as accommodating they can stay on DSL at 4Mbps!

Or they can take the cheaper, easier option and just put up with a workman in the house for a few hours and get on with their lives.

As I said, there isnt an issue to solve here. Its a once in a "lifetime" install.

Andy From Sligo

fritzelly wrote: »

Unless everyone is downloading the internet at the same time. :rolleyes:

the whole system should have been P2P Ethernet employed instead of shared Gpon ... and buggér the costs!

TireeTerror

With Eir announcing there are investing €1bn over the next five years expanding FTTH. Is this likely to include extending the existing yellow lines further? The yellow line stopped at the house next to me, its about 300m. Ive tried all wireless options and Im currently tethered to my mobile over three network, its not the best shall we say!

Is there anyway to influence Eir or whoever decided what areas to go to next? Id be more than happy to go and get my neighbours to sign a letter of genuine interest if that would make a difference.

fritzelly

Expansion in urban not rural

Andy From Sligo

if i wanted to drill the hole at the back of my ETU what minimum diameter hole / minimum diameter drill bit should I purchase for the fibre cable to pass through easily? - I did start drilling but it was a cheap ol' drill bit (set of 3 long buggers) that I got from a cheap pound shop years ago and well used and was blunt as aresholes so I give it up as a bad job and left it.

I , ideally would like a hole all drilled ready for the installer to cut down the amount of time he is here and to make the job as simple as possible so there are no failed installs (say if the installers drill/drill bit broke on the particular day he is supposed to do my install, I can see that happening) and its as easily and quickly as possible for him and it wont be no harm to me to drill the hole and have it all ready for him, sure it might just take him 2 minutes at the most to drill the hole himself 5 tops by the time he has gone back to the van to get his drill etc but sure what the harm, and i could do with getting meself a big long drill bit now as my ones are blunt now. All my internal walls downstairs are breezeblock walls and a long drill bit will come in handy every now and again when I want to pass a cable from one room to another .

so anyway, yeah where was I - yes what minimum diamerter hole needed for the fibre that comes up from the underground duct into the ETU and then through the wall to the ODP?

ED E

Stop.

If you need to buy the bit then you certainly don't have an SDS drill. You need the hammer action for this kinda work. Leave it for a pro.

Andy From Sligo

ED E wrote: »

Stop.

If you need to buy the bit then you certainly don't have an SDS drill. You need the hammer action for this kinda work. Leave it for a pro.

that be like a sledghammer to crack a walnut in my case because house was built in 2008 with breeze-blocks and rendered plaster and the back of the plastic ETU already extends into the hollow cavity part so I just need a bog standard masonry drill bit (but not a blunt one like I have at present) and a standard Bosch hammer drill (which i have)

Andy From Sligo

Fibre / Fiber - ones nuts and the other is ....

EDIT: this is in response to @ babi-hrse 1 line post 'Fibre' - which has since been removed

babi-hrse

Andy your not really saving anytime by drilling the hole yourself. You'll be decorating and cleaning and polishing that hole for over 10 minutes the installer will come out and find something wrong with it like it's too close to the skirting board not leaving enough space for a fit or something. He'll end up just drilling next to it takes him 40seconds. Then you'll have two holes.
Like someone else said
If the customer has a problem with the installer doing an install. The installer will let them stick with their broadband until they can make up their minds which it's to be. If ya get a Walter Mitty sort that wants things but doesn't want nessacary aspects of it. It gets explained to them why it needs to happen that way then it can get very Boolean. Do they want it or not? They're put under no pressure to take the install on the day. They're free to suggest ideas but anything wrong with them will be pointed out. If they have a idea that takes significant preparation on their part but it's how they want it exactly it'll be explained if that can work and advice given on how it should go (ie someone wants to build some radiator surround to cover ont wants it installed on a wall with no power anywhere near it to turn it on and doesn't have an extension lead). The installer can agree to reschedule their install with them and leave them to build their ideal situation for install or they can just take the advice and get it in there and then. I have no issues with people taking pride in their homes it is their castle after all but if it means they're still going to be trying to organise stuff and fix things making the install wait on them. It's likely they need to reschedule. Sometimes people think your there for the day and it's the only job for the day and consequently think it's ok to drive off to woodies to buy ducting and start digging you'll just be at their house making a start on digging a trench.
I know the post is a bit long winded but the short of it is if the customer is not ready for the install it will in all probability be reschedule until the customer is ready.

9726_9726

babi-hrse wrote: »

it can get very Boolean. Do they want it or not? .

Haha, great way to put it!

babi-hrse

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Fibre / Fiber - ones nuts and the other is ....

EDIT: this is in response to @ babi-hrse 1 line post 'Fibre' - which has since been removed

Was trying to post pictures but just the text came through