Eir rural FTTH thread II

Marlow

oscarBravo wrote: »

And now they're tainting "gigabit". Wonderful.

Wait until they discover, that they can call it 10gig ..... a certain new owner of a certain former incumbent is already selling that to customers in Switzerland. Obviously highly contended, when the entire cluster only does 10gig.

/M

fritzelly

You mean 10G is coming to Ireland, none of this crappy 5G - whoopee, that's wireless BB sorted out.

Marlow

fritzelly wrote: »

You mean 10G is coming to Ireland, none of this crappy 5G - whoopee, that's wireless BB sorted out.

Yeah. It's shambles that they're only using 1G technology on the fiber currently.

/M

babi-hrse

I'd say In 10 years the fibre line won't be good enough and they'll want to replace the whole network with two fibre strands in a drop for TX and Rx transmissions. For speeds of 150gigabits. It's something I've thought about as the older fibre drop had two fibres. Only one gets terminated. The other didn't. It looked like a good way to get a second connection off the same drop.
when the rules get relaxed in a few years.
However all fibre drops now have only 1 strand so that's that scalability out the window.

Disclaimer: none of this is fact this is a thought on a possibility of needing a second fibre strand in the years to come without any actual evidence.
None of this is fact

Johnboy1951

babi-hrse wrote: »

I'd say In 10 years the fibre line won't be good enough and they'll want to replace the whole network with two fibre strands in a drop for TX and Rx transmissions. It's something I've thought about as the older fibre drop had two fibres. Only one gets terminated. The other didn't. It looked like a good way to get a second connection off the same drop.
when the rules get relaxed in a few years.
However all fibre drops now have only 1 strand so that's that scalability out the window.

Disclaimer: none of this is fact this is a thought on a possibility of needing a second fibre strand in the years to come without any actual evidence.
None of this is fact

When did this happen? (not bringing in the second fibre strand)

Was it due to using cheaper cable?

babi-hrse

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

When did this happen? (not bringing in the second fibre strand)

Was it due to using cheaper cable?

I don't know costing of cable. The other strand was never used but just the fact that there was a second strand means some applications used it probably other fibre connection mediums other than gpon. Now that it's single strands coming in it's all that the cable will be. Since the new fibre cable acome replaced the old overhead (steel spine) 3m fibre.
I don't know enough about different fibre technology implementation to start a professing one over the other just that the second strand has disappeared (why have one when you can have two)
I wouldn't say it's cheaper could have come down to a supply issue stuff changes all the time.
The newer cable has better all round protection whereas the steel spine was easier to work witt but when the older cable rubbed off a tight bend the spine could slice out of the insulation and then you were pulling a fibre cable that had it's reinforcement next to it but not in it. (It'd make you apprehensive about pulling it through a duct) whereas the newer one you'd feel confident the cable was still good even whipping trees with it as there's alot of barriers before it's anywhere near the actual fibre strand.

Marlow

It really doesn't matter.

The thing you have to understand, is that they actually are using 2 connections on the existing fibre already. One wavelength for tx, one wavelength for rx. The adapters used are bi-directional within the same fibre.

When the upgrade to 10G-XPON happens, this can be done side by side, because it will use 2 completely different wavelengths from the ones that GPON uses. So you can then without any changes to the fibre operate 2 entire different infrastructures on the same cable.

There will be no need to replace or upgrade that fibre for decades. 1G, 10G, 40G, 100G, and so on.

The same technology is used on traditional carrier networks to maximize capacity. If you buy dark fiber from A to B, you might start with 1Gbit/s. If you'd upgrade on the cheap, you'd replace that 1 Gbit/s adapter with 2 BiDi Gbit/s adapters and use either half of the pair. Or you get a multiplex and you can then run a mix of 1G/10G/40G/100G and 4/8/16 or more connections over the same fiber or fiber pair.

So I wouldn't worry at all about that.

/M

babi-hrse

Marlow wrote: »

It really doesn't matter.

The thing you have to understand, is that they actually are using 2 connections on the existing fibre already. One wavelength for tx, one wavelength for rx. The adapters used are bi-directional within the same fibre.

When the upgrade to 10G-XPON happens, this can be done side by side, because it will use 2 completely different wavelengths from the ones that GPON uses. So you can then without any changes to the fibre operate 2 entire different infrastructures on the same cable.

There will be no need to replace or upgrade that fibre for decades. 1G, 10G, 40G, 100G, and so on.

The same technology is used on traditional carrier networks to maximize capacity. If you buy dark fiber from A to B, you might start with 1Gbit/s. If you'd upgrade on the cheap, you'd replace that 1 Gbit/s adapter with 2 BiDi Gbit/s adapters and use either half of the pair. Or you get a multiplex and you can then run a mix of 1G/10G/40G/100G and 4/8/16 or more connections over the same fiber or fiber pair.

So I wouldn't worry at all about that.

/M

So theroetically you could throw a whole lot of different equipment on that provided they have their own standard wavelenghts?
(Not likely but theroetically possible should an agreement occur in years to come) another ISP or sirio bridges their network into openeirs and operates on a different wavelenghts to reach each others customers on the same physical medium?
And possibly specific wavelenghts used for high end businesses and government agencies in the way data lines are used to stop eavesdropping on tapped in lines?

Marlow

babi-hrse wrote: »

So theroetically you could throw a whole lot of different equipment on that provided they have their own standard wavelenghts?
(Not likely but theroetically possible should an agreement occur in years to come) another ISP or sirio bridges their network into openeirs and operates on a different wavelenghts to reach each others customers on the same physical medium?
And possibly specific wavelenghts used for high end businesses and government agencies in the way data lines are used to stop eavesdropping on tapped in lines?

Correct.

With a passive multiplexer you can split fiber up in different wavelegths (be it a single fibre or a pair) and then run a whole lot of different gear on that same fiber, without that they interfere with each other. And it's something that doesn't need power at all. Pure optics.

That is why fiber is the right solution to roll out now, so that there is peace for a long time to come. We haven't even scratched the surface of what can be done with fiber.

/M

Johnboy1951

It does though make one wonder why the two strand cable was used at all ...... or maybe it was what was available at the time of purchase.

I know I got two strands into my home, a couple of months ago ..... maybe using the remaining two-stranded cable at that time?

babi-hrse

That's interesting from a standpoint that if there was another player in the telecoms field like glenline or imagine that agreed to cover those hard to reach areas that openeir didn't yet cover in the nbp they could set up their own physical fibre network and pay rental fees to tap in and piggyback their network across openeirs to another remote blackspot. Provided they set up their own gpon equipment and passive multiplexers along the routes.
So instead of buying radio frequencies spectrums they'd be buying light wavelenghts licenses with some of the costs going back to openeir for the upkeep of the network it'd be a more proactive approach than waiting for sirio or openeir to cover an area.

Probably shouldnt be naming actual telecom companies but it's just an example.

babi-hrse

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It does though make one wonder why the two strand cable was used at all ...... or maybe it was what was available at the time of purchase.

I know I got two strands into my home, a couple of months ago ..... maybe using the remaining two-stranded cable at that time?

The two stranded cable is drying up in supplies the installers just found it easier to work with what they had been working with for the last couple of years and knew it well. When the supply of it is exhausted everyone will just be using the new cable from that point on.

Marlow

Also, I believe that the second fibre is orange coated.

That means it's multi-mode. What is being used for GPON is single-mode.

The 2 fibers have different properties and you need different adapters to utilize them. Multi-mode is only capable of distances up to 300m. Single-mode is capable of distances of 220m/2km/10km/20km/40km/80km/160km depending on optical adapters.

/M

babi-hrse

Marlow wrote: »

Also, I believe that the second fibre is orange coated.

That means it's multi-mode. What is being used for GPON is single-mode.

The 2 fibers have different properties and you need different adapters to utilize them. Multi-mode is only capable of distances up to 300m. Single-mode is capable of distances of 220m/2km/10km/20km/40km/80km/160km depending on optical adapters.

/M

The orange fibre was never used
Just the one with blue fibre cladding

Marlow

babi-hrse wrote: »

The orange fibre was never used
Just the one with blue fibre cladding

Jup. If they followed the standard color coding, that second fiber could be multi-mode fiber, which would make sense. As you would have a cable with either/or so it would be suitable for both types installation.

And that's the reason it never was used.

/M

babi-hrse

Marlow wrote: »

Jup. If they followed the standard color coding, that second fiber could be multi-mode fiber, which would make sense. As you would have a cable with either/or so it would be suitable for both types installation.

And that's the reason it never was used.

/M

And probably removed in the newer cable so no one would try to use that over the single mode.

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

Also, I believe that the second fibre is orange coated.

That means it's multi-mode. What is being used for GPON is single-mode.

The 2 fibers have different properties and you need different adapters to utilize them. Multi-mode is only capable of distances up to 300m. Single-mode is capable of distances of 220m/2km/10km/20km/40km/80km/160km depending on optical adapters.

/M

It is not multi-mode. The cable colouring is just following the TIA-598 standard. The cable spec sheet also makes no reference to multi-mode.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA-598-C

This is all irrelevant anyway as the second strand is unlikely to ever be used.

Marlow

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

It is not multi-mode.

It was assumptions anyway. But you're right. The installers were instructed not to use it. I can't see OpenEIR going back and using it either. It's just there because it's whatever cabling they sourced.

/M

chris_ie

I might have to end up cancelling my order. Hired duct rodder this morning and doesn’t even get past first bend yet at ETU. Tied a small torch to a string, dropped it down and took video on phone. The duct seems to bend the opposite direction to the road. The esb box is beside it so don’t know if it’s joining there somewhere. Not straightforward anyway.

chris_ie

Chatting to neighbour two houses over. He reckons when they built our house then put a duct from his pole to our house. The access chamber was added at the road after. So no idea if it goes to access chamber first then the house, or from house straight to pole in his garden. Will need to get the KN guys out to see what story is. Could be costly!

DarkPassenger

Fibre laid past here yesterday, should I forget about it until next year or will it be available fairly soon? Vodafone customer if that makes any difference.

tsue921i8wljb3

DarkPassenger wrote: »

Fibre laid past here yesterday, should I forget about it until next year or will it be available fairly soon? Vodafone customer if that makes any difference.

If they were only putting the cable on the poles yesterday it is highly unlikely that it would be available to order before January.

oscarBravo

Anyone who's worried about fibre not being future-proof: don't sweat it. We're doing crazy stuff like 2048QAM to try to eke out the last few b/s/Hz from radio spectrum, while what we're doing on fibre is barely beyond Morse code. There's an incredible amount of untapped capacity in those tiny strands.

Marlow

oscarBravo wrote: »

Anyone who's worried about fibre not being future-proof: don't sweat it. We're doing crazy stuff like 2048QAM to try to eke out the last few b/s/Hz from radio spectrum, while what we're doing on fibre is barely beyond Morse code. There's an incredible amount of untapped capacity in those tiny strands.

Ah here ... you missed the cutting edge. It's 4096QAM now At least SIAE have taken that leap.

/M

oscarBravo

oscarBravo wrote: »

Anyone who's worried about fibre not being future-proof: don't sweat it. We're doing crazy stuff like 2048QAM to try to eke out the last few b/s/Hz from radio spectrum, while what we're doing on fibre is barely beyond Morse code. There's an incredible amount of untapped capacity in those tiny strands.

In the early 1990s, I worked for a company that had decided that "fibre was the future" and invested in installing "fibre to the desk".
Great, but it was 10FL with BNC connectors, they eventually abandoned it as the 10FL cards for the PCs were so expensive.

Right medium, wrong implementation. :P

babi-hrse

I still get a kick out of showing people when terminating fibre people have it in their mindset that it's be a thick chunky piece of glass I strip off the armour coating and they go ahh so that's it. Nope then I cut it open again and their like my god thats tiny that's still not it
Strip off the insulation my god it's so small
I take the pliers and scrape off the cladding and they're like my god that's thinner than hair can you really get a 1000mb off that.
I admit it still impresses me to date.

babi-hrse

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In the early 1990s, I worked for a company that had decided that "fibre was the future" and invested in installing "fibre to the desk".
Great, but it was 10FL with BNC connectors, they eventually abandoned it as the 10FL cards for the PCs were so expensive.

Right medium, wrong implementation. :P

Bnc connector they used a coax connector for fibre? How does that work? Fibre where the copper pin goes?

oscarBravo

babi-hrse wrote: »

Bnc connector they used a coax connector for fibre? How does that work? Fibre where the copper pin goes?

I assume it's an ST connector - same bayonet type of operation as BNC.

oscarBravo

oscarBravo wrote: »

I assume it's an ST connector - same bayonet type of operation as BNC.

Yes, that's the type, we also had a few SMA types as well, all based on their coax equivalents.
We just called them BNC rather than ST.

babi-hrse

Just watched a video of st connector I cringed when they got a crimper to crush the connector onto a piece of glass about a half a millimeter in thickness.