Eir rural FTTH thread II

funnyname

Would it be possible to put in my own duct with the correct access points (every 100m I believe) so as to reduce the cost to Eir?

Marlow

funnyname wrote: »

Would it be possible to put in my own duct with the correct access points (every 100m I believe) so as to reduce the cost to Eir?

No.

Here are a few facts:

- if you're more than 50m from the road or the nearest pole (within a roll-out), you can't get connected overhead
- if you're more than 150m from the rollout, you will not be connected.
- if you're past the last house of the rollout, you will not be connected.
- if you don't have an eircode, OpenEIR have now taken a hard stance and won't enable you until you have an eircode.

What you can do: make a deal with somebody, who is enabled. Run ducting and fibre to said person. Or build a high speed wireless link. Connect yourself. Takes know-how etc., but it's the makings of what most regional rural providers started out as. Just using modern technology.

That particular approach .. nobody can argue with .. apart from the planning issue.

/M

Andy From Sligo

some people mentioned about the F2000 routers being rubbish - if eir TV and VOIP not an issue would something like the TP-Link AC1750 be a better router and its only around 80euro - would a TP-Link be a better quality router than the eir / Huawei F2000 router or a worse one - and has anyone on here swapped out their supplied F2000 router (or ISP supplied router) with a TP-link one?

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

some people mentioned about the F2000 routers being rubbish - if eir TV and VOIP not an issue would something like the TP-Link AC1750 be a better router and its only around 80euro - would a TP-Link be a better quality router than the eir / Huawei F2000 router or a worse one - and has anyone on here swapped out their supplied F2000 router (or ISP supplied router) with a TP-link one?

Most high-end TP-Link routers are better quality than the F2000. The problem is also, that most of the TP-Link routers don't support VLan tagging. Have you checked, that that router supports it ? Cheap router usually means trade-off. Trade-off means, forget FTTH. Go VDSL of ADSL2. Don't buy a Ferrari, when you only can afford Diesel.

/M

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

Most high-end TP-Link routers are better quality than the F2000. The problem is also, that most of the TP-Link routers don't support VLan tagging. Have you checked, that that router supports it ? Cheap router usually means trade-off. Trade-off means, forget FTTH. Go VDSL of ADSL2. Don't buy a Ferrari, when you only can afford Diesel.

/M

thanks. No I havent actually now you come to mention it see if it has Vlan tag settings .. I will now

EDIT: - from what I make out (unless I am not looking closely enough) it doesnt look like this particular router has any settings for Vlan tagging .

fritzelly

Marlow wrote: »

No.

Here are a few facts:

- if you're more than 50m from the road or the nearest pole (within a roll-out), you can't get connected overhead
- if you're more than 150m from the rollout, you will not be connected.
- if you're past the last house of the rollout, you will not be connected.
- if you don't have an eircode, OpenEIR have now taken a hard stance and won't enable you until you have an eircode.

What you can do: make a deal with somebody, who is enabled. Run ducting and fibre to said person. Or build a high speed wireless link. Connect yourself. Takes know-how etc., but it's the makings of what most regional rural providers started out as. Just using modern technology.

That particular approach .. nobody can argue with .. apart from the planning issue.

/M

That pretty much sums it up, few exceptions but very very rare

And Andy with the router stuff again, back to your own thread

funnyname

Great info Marlow, thanks for your help. Can a premises get two FTTH connections if I was to go down the line of a high speed wireless link?

Marlow wrote: »

No.

Here are a few facts:

- if you're more than 50m from the road or the nearest pole (within a roll-out), you can't get connected overhead
- if you're more than 150m from the rollout, you will not be connected.
- if you're past the last house of the rollout, you will not be connected.
- if you don't have an eircode, OpenEIR have now taken a hard stance and won't enable you until you have an eircode.

What you can do: make a deal with somebody, who is enabled. Run ducting and fibre to said person. Or build a high speed wireless link. Connect yourself. Takes know-how etc., but it's the makings of what most regional rural providers started out as. Just using modern technology.

That particular approach .. nobody can argue with .. apart from the planning issue.

/M

Marlow

funnyname wrote: »

Great info Marlow, thanks for your help. Can a premises get two FTTH connections if I was to go down the line of a high speed wireless link?

Yes, it can. As long as there are free ports on the DP and the names on the orders differ (pssst!!). Worst case scenario: order from a different provider. But make sure, that the first order is complete, before ordering.

/M

fritzelly

funnyname wrote: »

Great info Marlow, thanks for your help. Can a premises get two FTTH connections if I was to go down the line of a high speed wireless link?

Simple answer no, every residential property has one connection

Marlow

fritzelly wrote: »

Simple answer no, every residential property has one connection

Sorry. But I've multiple examples where more than one connection has been ordered to the same premise and delivered successfully. Without a hitch. It does screw with OpenEIRs capacity planning though and they have admitted that themselves in training sessions.

I have actually done so myself

/M

fritzelly

Marlow wrote: »

Yes, it can. As long as there are free ports on the DP and the names on the orders differ (pssst!!). Worst case scenario: order from a different provider. But make sure, that the first order is complete, before ordering.

/M

Gonna dispute that, every port has been assigned, you won't get 2 connections to a residential property unless there is 2 seperate eircodes. AMD even adding an eircode now does not mean you can get a new connection unless there is a free port available

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

Sorry. But I've multiple examples where more than one connection has been ordered to the same premise and delivered successfully. Without a hitch. It does screw with OpenEIRs capacity planning though and they have admitted that themselves in training sessions.

I have actually done so myself

/M

I'd be pretty sick if I went to order and found the DP full because someone had ordered multiple connections to one premises.

fritzelly

You have got 2 ftth connections to the same residential home?
Maybe that is why they are insisting on eircodes now

Andy From Sligo

fritzelly wrote: »

That pretty much sums it up, few exceptions but very very rare

And Andy with the router stuff again, back to your own thread

what is your problem with me mentioning about replacing router on her when someone had already been discussing about the F2000 on this thread - why did they not upset you .. but I seem to ? - what is it one rule for one member and another rule for another member?

Marlow

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

I'd be pretty sick if I went to order and found the DP full because someone had ordered multiple connections to one premises.

fritzelly wrote: »

You have got 2 ftth connections to the same residential home?
Maybe that is why they are insisting on eircodes now

All of these connections are ordered on Eircode. OpenEIR will not limit these orders.

The issue was raised at the first training meeting they held for operators. And OpenEIR gave an example of somebody having ordered a FTTH line for his home and then another to a mobile home on his own premise. They are aware of this, but they have not adjusted capacity for this.

The fact is, that it is no problem to do this. Over 2000 ard keys in Ireland have more than one FTTH connection currently.

Anyone that has access to the data from OpenEIR can verify that.

/M

fritzelly

Unless the mobile home had an eircode it shouldn't have happened. They were lax in the past but not now

And Andy give it over with the router questions ffs

Marlow

fritzelly wrote: »

Unless the mobile home had an eircode it shouldn't have happened. They were lax in the past but not now

They have gone stricter, yes.

They will still supply multiple connections to an eircode. Simply because some premises have multiple businesses or appartements on the same eircode .. because the eircode system is flawed.

They also have over 4k of eircodes in their database that either don't exist or have been deactivated because the place has been demolished. And because they don't validate their own eircode database against the official eircode database.

Don't get me started on premises in the plain wrong place. I recently found 4 premises on the Aran Islands hanging of Tullow and Carlow exchanges .. that's been fixed now. Now there are 2 premises in Athlone town, that are hanging of the Dunshauglin Exchange.

How are you expecting them to make sense of the orders, when their database is in shambels and they won't take external input to fix it ? Trust me .. I've tried.

/M

Andy From Sligo

fritzelly wrote: »

And Andy give it over with the router questions ffs

you didnt answer my question - what have you got against me asking a question about a router for a FTTH setup - but dont have a problem with anyone else asking questions about routers on here ?

I am obviously not going down the road of asking a plethora of questions like before about wireless routers again, but i just wanted to know if a TP-Link was a good replacement for the F2000

Bored Accountant

Business properties have 2 ports allocated for FTTH. I'm know my next door neighbour who is buisness customer has 2 ports allocated to her, but still hasn't gotten around to ordering it 6 months after it has went live and so is still working on 3mb DSL connection.

She has told me how it takes a number of hours every Friday night for her computer to do a backup to the cloud, and her IT guy has told her to order the fibre, but she just hasn't gotten around to it...
Eir can complain about the take up rates, but this is what they are dealing with...laziness

babi-hrse

About the distance to dp
I have come across a place in swainstown that was about 800meters on private grounds that actually got an order for ftth. Nobody could do it and it kept getting kicked to planning as the dp was nearly longer than our longest cables then and is longer than our current 500m cables. The customer asked if he sourced his own fibre cable and put it in the ground the whole way edge of property and left enough to bring it up to the dp would it work.
I told him well the fact that they let your order it if I found the cable in the ground all the way end to end I'd have no issues connecting it up and making no mention of the lenght of it.
So if you manage to place an order and it gets accepted I'd say have a go at getting a run to pole from your house. (That's if they let you order it and you have a service order number)

Andy From Sligo

Bored Accountant wrote: »

Business properties have 2 ports allocated for FTTH. I'm know my next door neighbour who is buisness customer has 2 ports allocated to her, but still hasn't gotten around to ordering it 6 months after it has went live and so is still working on 3mb DSL connection.

She has told me how it takes a number of hours every Friday night for her computer to do a backup to the cloud, and her IT guy has told her to order the fibre, but she just hasn't gotten around to it...
Eir can complain about the take up rates, but this is what they are dealing with...laziness

Re- slow take up - this needs to be addressed quickly . To a lot of people 129euro for installation and connection charge is a drop in the ocean and they can shell that amount of money out like its pennies. to a lot its a fair bit of money to shell out especially if you have some sort of broadband and think "ah well its not blisteringly fast my present broadband but I can get by with it like I always have"... I shall just put up with it.

So if there is a low take up of it even when its available to someone but they dont come up in ways to heavily subsidise the connection and installation charge how do they think this would look attractive to a customer? (yes, I understand at even 129eur its already been susidised and they are loosing money already) - but get customers on board first with a very interesting installation charge of , I dunno lets say 50euro and then if they want to make sure they get their money back, do it on subscription , lock the customer into an 18month or 24month contract

. I believe this is how Sky and some other customers operate things , a cheap installation of Dish and box for new users and loose out on the actual installation (make a loss on it) but rake it back in on subscriptions. - I know the other reasons for low take up is people in the area not even being aware they can get FTTH or that its even live , but apart from that if you went to them and said "installation and connection is only 50euro and you will go from 3mbps to 150mbps speed (and up to 1gbps if you like) and we can install it for only 50eur rather than 129eur the customer is more than likely going to order . - Slow take up in FTTH .. so what do eir and other providers do? dont bother being competative and charge 129.00 or 99eur for installation to start off with - it does not really make sense. If you want to get people onboard you make signing up people to it very attractive.

Now to date in my personal situation there is only one outfit I can think of that is offering the Install and connection fee totally free of charge for FTTH and that is westnet Broadband (if I still have that correct Phil?) so thats just one company i know of - every other one I checked out charge around the 100-129euro - if a company like westnet can offer this free installation/connection and can still manage to stay in business how are they managing to do this when others cannot ?

In my situation , a couple of months ago I was chomping to the bit to get FTTH installed to my home - its now end of November and apparently been told that I 'should' be able to place an order in the first week of December .. but do you know what , with the delay in how long it has taken since I see the DP boxes gone up in the summer to now the edge has worn off - I am getting 12mps on FWA at present most times and I am even finding myself questioning now even if it does become available for me to order in December will I even go for it now at all ..

I have been getting fed up with the wait of how long its been to get sorted out here (I know patience is needed but there is patience and then there is ridiculous) and then I find myself thinking to myself 'maybe I would be better off just sticking to my present FWA service' and especially the thought if I had to shell out 129eur or whatever it is for connection thats another thing putting me off - look at how close we are to Christmas and money for me is normally tight with bills and eveything (even more so in winter) and could I really be financially able this time of the year shelling out 129eur if for some reason i cannot get it installed free or for a small charge - so then it will become available after all these months of waiting and checking, and asking and numerous conversations with openeir as to what the hold up is and waiting for get the infrastructure there that i might not even be bothered now to order it when it becomes available after all that - so then we are back to the 'slow take up' thing and they are left wondering why that is.

- I am not the only one. I have been telling people in my village that FTTH should be here 'soon' - the misxed reactions are "I am already signed up to an 18month contract with my present provider so I will have to wait until that runs out' and "How Much?!" when I tell them the cost of install and connection charge and how much it will go up to after 6 months or 12 months - and then just the ones that go "my internet is fast enough for what I want to do .. so thats me not trying to sell it to them I just have chats when I see them in the village and just get general feedback .. and there you go, thats it there , thats the 'Slow Take-up' right there so it is.

chris_ie

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

In my situation , a couple of months ago I was chomping to the bit to get FTTH installed to my home - its now end of November and apparently been told that I 'should' be able to place an order in the first week of December .. but do you know what , with the delay in how long it has taken since I see the DP boxes gone up in the summer to now the edge has worn off - I am getting 12mps on FWA at present most times and I am even finding myself questioning now even if it does become available for me to order in December will I even go for it now at all ..

I have been getting fed up with the wait of how long its been to get sorted out here (I know patience is needed but there is patience and then there is ridiculous) and then I find myself thinking to myself 'maybe I would be better off just sticking to my present FWA service' and especially the thought if I had to shell out 129eur or whatever it is for connection thats another thing putting me off - look at how close we are to Christmas and money for me is normally tight with bills and eveything (even more so in winter) and could I really be financially able this time of the year shelling out 129eur if for some reason i cannot get it installed free or for a small charge - so then it will become available after all these months of waiting and checking, and asking and numerous conversations with openeir as to what the hold up is and waiting for get the infrastructure there that i might not even be bothered now to order it when it becomes available after all that - so then we are back to the 'slow take up' thing and they are left wondering why that is.

Plenty people on the NBP would happily swap places with you! Install fee isn't that much for something that you'll get done once and never need to worry about again.

Andy From Sligo

chris_ie wrote: »

Plenty people on the NBP would happily swap places with you! Install fee isn't that much for something that you'll get done once and never need to worry about again.

you dont know for certain - I mean what kind of speed are they getting presently . Are they managing to watch Netflix or whatever without pausing / buffering - do they do work at home that even requires 150mbps ? - are the population maybe older people who dont even use the internet most of the time .. why would it be beneficial to push FTTH onto these type of users? -

and If there was ever a situations where people cannot get onto a DP because all the ports were used i would monitor what usage each one of those connected are actually using and if I found that some were connected but hardly using it or not using it to the potential , but someone else wanted to join the DP but there were no free ports I would boot off the ones not using it and connect ones that really need it. I bet that wont sit well with most people either.

and there is another person saying the install fee isnt much again it is to a lot of people - you cannot explain to them people that its a one-off charge and that it will pay for itself over time if they are in a mindset that on top of everything else they have to stump up 129euro in one go like that . Compare the installation fee with say like Sky installation. what are they offering something like a free sky box and 32" TV and the moment for 30euro or something is it for new customers? Do you think as many people would take up the offer if it cost 130euro to install SKY?

What other 'utility' at present in Ireland charge as much as 129euro for installation for something for a Home User at the moment?

Bored Accountant

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

What other 'utility' at present in Ireland charge as much as 129euro for installation for something for a Home User at the moment?

Thats the cost of a first time ESB connection? couple of thousand?

Johnboy1951

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

you dont know for certain - I mean what kind of speed are they getting presently . Are they managing to watch Netflix or whatever without pausing / buffering - do they do work at home that even requires 150mbps ? - are the population maybe older people who dont even use the internet most of the time .. why would it be beneficial to push FTTH onto these type of users? -

I don't NEED 150Mb/s, but because there is no lower available on fibre I must take that.
I do need more than 3Mb/s down and 0.4Mb/s up.

I look forward to your data showing a comparison of usage of broadband connections to homes, based on age.
I guess you must have such data to make such statements about older people not using the internet 'most of the time'. Do "younger" people use it most of the time?
You also need to clarify at what age someone becomes an 'older person' ..... 40? 50? 60? 70? 80?

and If there was ever a situations where people cannot get onto a DP because all the ports were used i would monitor what usage each one of those connected are actually using and if I found that some were connected but hardly using it or not using it to the potential , but someone else wanted to join the DP but there were no free ports I would boot off the ones not using it and connect ones that really need it. I bet that wont sit well with most people either.

and there is another person saying the install fee isnt much again it is to a lot of people - you cannot explain to them people that its a one-off charge and that it will pay for itself over time if they are in a mindset that on top of everything else they have to stump up 129euro in one go like that . Compare the installation fee with say like Sky installation. what are they offering something like a free sky box and 32" TV and the moment for 30euro or something is it for new customers? Do you think as many people would take up the offer if it cost 130euro to install SKY?

What other 'utility' at present in Ireland charge as much as 129euro for installation for something for a Home User at the moment?

ESB for one; water for another ...... what other utilities do you mean?

Andy From Sligo

Bored Accountant wrote: »

Thats the cost of a first time ESB connection? couple of thousand?

ESB is a necessity to most .. a lot of the time a fast broadband connection or a sky installation is a 'want' for most - its not a need with the majority even if they say it is .

Got to get out of the mindset in this country that Fibre broadband is a necessity especially for home users .. and then maybe the prices might come down and companies dont rip off consumers believing they will sell their soul to get fibre broadband - people would , and they are, paying prices like 129euro without hesitation and without question and asking companies 'is it really that much to installation charge?" and just paying up with no quibbles .. but whilst there is that carry on then of course companies will carry on charging that installation fee and the extortionate monthly subscription packages as long as people are prepared to pay it without quibbling or questioning how and why so high installation charge and package price -

KOR101

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I don't NEED 150Mb/s, but because there is no lower available on fibre I must take that.
You also need to clarify at what age someone becomes an 'older person' ..... 40? 50? 60? 70? 80?

That's easy. An older person is someone who doesn't realise they need 150Mb/s. :pac:

chris_ie

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

ESB is a necessity to most .. a lot of the time a fast broadband connection or a sky installation is a 'want' for most - its not a need with the majority even if they say it is .

Got to get out of the mindset in this country that Fibre broadband is a necessity especially for home users .. and then maybe the prices might come down and companies dont rip off consumers believing they will sell their soul to get fibre broadband - people would , and they are, paying prices like 129euro without hesitation and without question and asking companies 'is it really that much to installation charge?" and just paying up with no quibbles .. but whilst there is that carry on then of course companies will carry on charging that installation fee and the extortionate monthly subscription packages as long as people are prepared to pay it without quibbling or questioning how and why so high installation charge and package price -

No one is forcing anyone to go FTTH. If you dont want it, dont get it. I paid Airwire €199 for my pending installation and I was happy to. If you're not, dont order it, stick to your current provider.

Its not all about speeds either. Its reliability.

Others have mentioned the cost for other utilities. As I said, the fee is not that much. I've seen many people on here say they'd pay even more in order to get fiber. Also its about the future. There will be more and more uses for fast, reliable, broadband that aren't even around yet.

You don't sound like you are happy to pay the install, so don't.

Andy From Sligo

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

.. I look forward to your data showing a comparison of usage of broadband connections to homes, based on age.

thats my outlook and my personal view on it . You dont have to believe it just because I said it, and you dont need any data on it because its just my view and in my experience -

I could say to you if I look out of my window at the moment it is so sunny the sun is splitting the stones and its 32'c - but its up to you if you choose to believe it and i will not be required to submit any data to you.

(its not by the way its pee'ing down and 9'c)

Johnboy1951

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thats my outlook and my personal view on it . You dont have to believe it just because I said it, and you dont need any data on it because its just my view and in my experience -

I could say to you if I look out of my window at the moment it is so sunny the sun is splitting the stones and its 32'c - but its up to you if you choose to believe it and i will not be required to submit any data to you.

(its not by the way its pee'ing down and 9'c)

OK, I can take everything posted by you as uninformed opinion.
Fine.
I have no problem once that has been clarified.