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Eir rural FTTH thread II
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Johnboy1951 wrote: »OK, I can take everything posted by you as uninformed opinion.
Fine.
I have no problem once that has been clarified.
of course - thats the way life works and always had . you get fed information and you think about it and you come to your own decision ... if not you start believing things like fake news is real etc...
Its not going to change my life in any way whatsover if you take everything I spout on boards as gospel or as a uninformed opinion0 -
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If the price really was too high, many people wouldn't pay it. The fact they do tells you something. Again, no one is forcing anyone.
come back with a more sensible comparisonThe monthly fee would seem too high then and people would complain. Even if they didn't and someone asks them how much they pay monthly, to others it would seem too high and maybe put them off that company, not realising its subsidizing the install fee.
its no concern of anyone else - as long as you realise that if you dont stump up the installation charge in one go at first that you know it will be spread out over the contract then everything is fine. You still end up paying the installation charge, the ISP get the fee for the installation charge (in the end) and you realise that you cannot get away without paying the installation charge but you are paying it on a plan over the length of the contract and have not had to stump up the full price in one go at the time of installation.
.. and the USP to other people is you say to them 'if you dont want to stump up the 129.00eur in one go this 'xxx ISP' - will let you pay it over a certain amount of time along with your subscription .. and then whoever your chatting to go 'oh , right thats good to know - i will contact them so and go with them then" ..0 -
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Prices are usually high for early adopters in all areas of technology.
I was happy to pay the €100 install and would have paid a few hundred more if I needed to install a duct.
You're right as of now 10 Mbit or so it fine for some people but unbearable for others.
Andy just wait a few years, the price will eventually come down to a point that you will be happy with.
that might be indeed what I will do , wait now until it comes down in price (mind you it could go up in price as well, its a gamble)
a couple of months ago I would have been ready to bite the hand off the eir rep when he said FTTH was available in the area (it wasnt by the way) and I would have even forgot the bad reviews eir get from their customers (especially on boards) - but now, too long waiting .. the spark has gone now with me, fed up waiting , cannot get overly excited than I once was and its too near christmas now been putting up with 12mbps FWA for nearly 2 years now but get by most of the time. would like video's to play sometimes without stoppin/buffering and have a better upload speed than 2mbps but as I sayits not life or death situation .
If thougjh it does become available in the 1st week of december to me where I live (thats a big if , I have been listening for ages that it will be ready to order. I will believe it when I see it with my own eyes in operation) - then if some ISP can offer free installation (looks like only westnet at the moment) or my existing FWA installs it for free so they can keep me as a customer (looks highly unlikely ) - then I suppose I shall just have to stay with what I have .
Whats that saying about you dont miss what you never had 0 -
Andy From Sligo wrote: »come back with a more sensible comparison
It wasn’t a comparison. If you were running a business and set a price on something that a lot of people were paying. Would you reduce the price?0 -
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It wasn’t a comparison. If you were running a business and set a price on something that a lot of people were paying. Would you reduce the price?
I do run a business - have done for years . Most people are happy to pay for my services and the price(s) I charge . But if they arent and its too expensive (think with their feet / wallet) then they have to facility to go to somewhere else cheaper which some do . I cannot blame them I am the same. If I think something is too expensive for what it is or cannot afford it I try somewhere else (and sometimes the amount of good quality / level of service might slip) but what choice have you got with FTTH installation if nearly every ISP is charging the same installations of between 129eur - 199eur - yes I suppose maybe the compertition is the level of car and how fast the installation got sorted . Like I think I read on here someone on the same street ordered from airwire and their neighbour ordered from somewhere else and airwire installed first when the other neibour was still waiting for theirs .
re Installation prices and no competition whatsover on it this is what I have find - please correct me if I am wrong :
Eir FTTH = 99.00 Eur plus 29.99 connection fee
Vodafone FTTH = 129.00 eur installation (dont know whether that includes connection fee?)
Airwire: 6 month contract = 199eur - 12month contract = 199.00 - 18month contract = 129eur (and add €5 PM for 6 months)
not sure of all the others but I would hazard a guess of betwwen 129-199eur installation fee (prices for new installation - IE no existing fibre running into the house)
only one I have found free installation and connection (if I have it right) is Westnet in Mayo .. but they dont do nationwide I dont think .
No competition the only plus you might get is a better level of service from one comapany than another one (re installation and term of contract you are with them for and how good/quickly they fix something if you FTTH fails in contract)
Now you imagine if someone like eir or vodafone came along and went "Special black friday deal on Fibre to the home (or whatever they call it) - Normal price 129.00 - get it installed now for only €50 (limited offer) and 49euro PM for 150mbps download- (phone so and so) and flashed this up on TV or newspaper ad .. you think how that might be enticing to someone even if they wasnt even thinking of getting it installed? - but no, its nearly all of them charging over a hundred euro to get installed (bar westnet - had to put that in or Paul would be on here going 'ahem!'
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But no, same ol installation fee and just competative on the packages or bunging in free tv or calls or whatever - no imagination. the competative of differnt priced packages are no good to anyone if you ahvent caught the customers in the first place with an attrcative installation fee so they take it up in the first place and its going to put them off, (the installation fee in the first place) - yes I know there will always be people prepared to pay 129eur or double and triple to get it installed (or they say) and i know that FTTH is relitively new to the Irish market and its early days - but if people are waiting for the price to come down and in the meantime have signed up for another way of getting their broadband , then that is another rake of FTTH customers that the ISP's that are offering FTTH to have gone off to some other way of getting broadband .
They (whoever is asking it) are saying or dissapointed about slow uptake of people ordering FTTH now its available, to the clean/unwashed or whoever .. do something about it - offer ridiculous installation charges to get them onboard ... treat them well so you have a subscriber for a very long time - even when the contract has run out then there might be a better uptake of FTTH by this time next year
Thats what I think anyway.0 -
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Andy From Sligo wrote: »I do run a business - have done for years . Most people are happy to pay for my services and the price(s) I charge . But if they arent and its too expensive (think with their feet / wallet) then they have to facility to go to somewhere else cheaper which some do . I cannot blame them I am the same. If I think something is too expensive for what it is or cannot afford it I try somewhere else (and sometimes the amount of good quality / level of service might slip) but what choice have you got with FTTH installation if nearly every ISP is charging the same installations of between 129eur - 199eur - yes I suppose maybe the compertition is the level of car and how fast the installation got sorted . Like I think I read on here someone on the same street ordered from airwire and their neighbour ordered from somewhere else and airwire installed first when the other neibour was still waiting for theirs .
re Installation prices and no competition whatsover on it this is what I have find - please correct me if I am wrong :
Eir FTTH = 99.00 Eur plus 29.99 connection fee
Vodafone FTTH = 129.00 eur installation (dont know whether that includes connection fee?)
Airwire: 6 month contract = 199eur - 12month contract = 199.00 - 18month contract = 129eur (and add €5 PM for 6 months)
not sure of all the others but I would hazard a guess of betwwen 129-199eur installation fee (prices for new installation - IE no existing fibre running into the house)
only one I have found free installation and connection (if I have it right) is Westnet in Mayo .. but they dont do nationwide I dont think .
No competition the only plus you might get is a better level of service from one comapany than another one (re installation and term of contract you are with them for and how good/quickly they fix something if you FTTH fails in contract)
Now you imagine if someone like eir or vodafone came along and went "Special black friday deal on Fibre to the home (or whatever they call it) - Normal price 129.00 - get it installed now for only €50 (limited offer) and 49euro PM for 150mbps download- (phone so and so) and flashed this up on TV or newspaper ad .. you think how that might be enticing to someone even if they wasnt even thinking of getting it installed? - but no, its nearly all of them charging over a hundred euro to get installed (bar westnet - had to put that in or Paul would be on here going 'ahem!' ) -
But no, same ol installation fee and just competative on the packages or bunging in free tv or calls or whatever - no imagination. the competative of differnt priced packages are no good to anyone if you ahvent caught the customers in the first place with an attrcative installation fee so they take it up in the first place and its going to put them off, (the installation fee in the first place) - yes I know there will always be people prepared to pay 129eur or double and triple to get it installed (or they say) and i know that FTTH is relitively new to the Irish market and its early days - but if people are waiting for the price to come down and in the meantime have signed up for another way of getting their broadband , then that is another rake of FTTH customers that the ISP's that are offering FTTH to have gone off to some other way of getting broadband .
They (whoever is asking it) are saying or dissapointed about slow uptake of people ordering FTTH now its available, to the clean/unwashed or whoever .. do something about it - offer ridiculous installation charges to get them onboard ... treat them well so you have a subscriber for a very long time - even when the contract has run out then there might be a better uptake of FTTH by this time next year
Thats what I think anyway.
I would have paid x10 to move from 1mb to 300mb. For those who need internet it’s a life changing development.
Sure there are those that don’t realize the need for reliable fast internet speeds in the 21st century. Soon they will realize and appreciate the relative low cost of obtaining FTTH. Those (including myself) who have been very lucky to obtain this service are very very lucky.0 -
Andy From Sligo wrote: »
They (whoever is asking it) are saying or dissapointed about slow uptake of people ordering FTTH now its available, to the clean/unwashed or whoever .. do something about it - offer ridiculous installation charges to get them onboard ... treat them well so you have a subscriber for a very long time - even when the contract has run out then there might be a better uptake of FTTH by this time next year
Thats what I think anyway.
Yo do remember that up to 6 months ago Eir were installing for free right? Uptake was still very low To I don’t think the installation cost is that big a barrier to take up compared to people
A) not knowing what it is and that it’s available to them
being confused with the use of the word “fibre” being used to describe non-fibre products and the term being ‘tainted’ by this. 0 -
savemejebus wrote: »Yo do remember that up to 6 months ago Eir were installing for free right? Uptake was still very low To I don’t think the installation cost is that big a barrier to take up compared to people
A) not knowing what it is and that it’s available to them being confused with the use of the word “fibre” being used to describe non-fibre products and the term being ‘tainted’ by this.
Yes. And they had to stop doing the free installs, because it cost them 400 EUR for each installation and they were also giving people up to 200 EUR against breaking contract with their current provider.
That's loss of 600 EUR for every customer gained. If people then cancel within the cooling off period or move again after 12 months, then it's near impossible to make that money back.
The only reason, they made that money back was the up to 100 EUR extra charge per month, if you went over the 1TB allowance. When they removed that, the free installation disappeared. (1+1 anyone ?)
Westnet are making a whopping loss on their FTTH lines the first year. And they know that. But their motto is to deliver excellent broadband and excellent customer service with no hidden charges or limits, which should result in keeping their customers for well over the years contract.
However, that model is not sustainable for a regional Internet Provider on a national level. It would require a large amount of cash in the bank.
Each provider calculates out, what they can afford to loose. All of them loose or barely break even in the initial contract period at current pricing. The profits usually come from add-on products or other network revenue.
/M0 -
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My heart really bleeds for them - it really does ... er OK , not really . My job as a consumer /end user is not to worry about how much a supplier is loosing and how much this is all costing to bring it to the masses - sorry! . (well certainly not the big players like eir etc who make huge profits on what they do ..)
I am a sympathetic to small local firms if they are loosing out hand and fist so much because they are trying to keep prices low and making a loss but have to pay OE or whoever it is they have to pay and then go bust .
... that leads me onto another thing now , it makes me think about this. What if you signed up with a small local outfit or not one of the big players and you sign up for 18 months or whatever and they go bust (which no-one is safe these day .. even big firms) even eir could go bust one day if they keep carrying on as they have been and some of the horror stories some of the people on boards and other groups have said how dire their service is and customer service is. - well yeah, anyway say if you sign up to a smaller ISP company and they go bust what happens? - are you without Internet or do they pass you onto another provider before they go under or what?0 -
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Andy From Sligo wrote: »yeah but if you are like getting the service from a particular place (I dont know how this all technically works) but if they owe (whoever it is a bill or something for the data or service or whatever it is) and they dont pay the bill and go under and their supplier cust the service to them - then the customers service must cut out or LOS or something yeah? - either way, theres got to be some disruption yes to the end user??
Honestly ? You're asking questions and looking for guarantees here that nobody can answer in reality. Not even theoretically. If you want to know, start an ISP, get a wholesale contract from OpenEIR, then go bust and see what happens
/M0 -
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Honestly ? You're asking questions and looking for guarantees here that nobody can answer in reality. Not even theoretically. If you want to know, start an ISP, get a wholesale contract from OpenEIR, then go bust and see what happens
/M
no ideas whatsover ?
Nothing put in place for if such a thing happened? - they dont even discuss this in house? what would happen in this eventuality???0 -
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