Eir rural FTTH thread II

Marlow

Once you're outside the 500m radius of a cab, it's pointless to order VDSL unless you have zero other options.

Outside of the 1km radius, ADSL2 will surpass VDSL.

The reason they try to get you to upgrade is because they don't want to stock spares for the old gear.

/M

fritzelly

OE have started to stop selling at 1. 5 km

Andy From Sligo

i dare say they would have no mercy (eir this is - or come to think of it other isps too) if you signed up to an 18month or 24month FTTC VDSL package and then about a month later FTTH becomes available - I am predicting they will not switch you until your VDSL package is up - or require you to end VDSL package prematurely and pay the penalty and then sign up to FTTH - am I right?

fritzelly

Most companies do not operate like that, so while an upgrade is a new contract it does not mean you are breaking your previous contract
I say most companies, I don't know of any company doing that

Marlow

fritzelly wrote: »

Most companies do not operate like that, so while an upgrade is a new contract it does not mean you are breaking your previous contract
I say most companies, I don't know of any company doing that

There has been reports of Vodafone not being interested in upgrading tech for you unless they make substantially more money out of it.

With most others, it's no problem. The contract is more, so that you don't change to another provider.. changing package/product should never be a problem.

/M

cnocbui

Vodafone are a truly awful bunch of spongers. In Australia they tried really hard to force Telstra's to let them use their infrastructure that they had spent a fortune on to provide coverage in the outback and rural areas which were not commercially viable. Leaches.

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

There has been reports of Vodafone not being interested in upgrading tech for you unless they make substantially more money out of it.

With most others, it's no problem. The contract is more, so that you don't change to another provider.. changing package/product should never be a problem.

/M

ah yes - understandable they would do it to prevent you transferring to another provider , after all at the end of the day they want to keep their customers.

But (if my memory serves me correct , and its flaky these days) I am pretty sure I read that a Vodafone customer tried to change from Vodafone ADSL to Vodafone VDSL because it just became available and was sure they said that they were told they would have to wait for the ADSL package to finish contract before they could order the VDSL package. I might be wrong.

babi-hrse

Marlow wrote: »

Once you're outside the 500m radius of a cab, it's pointless to order VDSL unless you have zero other options.

Outside of the 1km radius, ADSL2 will surpass VDSL.

The reason they try to get you to upgrade is because they don't want to stock spares for the old gear.

/M

That's not nessacarily true. At 800m you can expect 50-60meg it's only after 1.2 -;1.3 km where it's drops to a point it's not really worth it.
Some cabs are upgraded to push further thing is nobody knows what cabs these are.
I have a 1.2km line and was getting 15mbps until I saw the mess of ADSL 10 meter long crap you can buy in argos cable crossing the attic abd bundled up. stripped it out and ran twisted pair cat5 the snr ratio improved dramatically was at 9.8 went to 13.1 and got my attainable a to 26mbps quick phone call and got bumped to 24mpbs

Never underestimate crappy alarm cable wiring. Picks up rubbish signals from around and introduces more noise.
Some of the stuff in houses actually causes slower speeds. But we have no rule book for ftth it just works. The stuff we know on copper would probably fill a book the stuff on fibre would probably only fill an A4 page it just seems that straightforward.

Marlow

Marlow wrote: »

Once you're outside the 500m radius of a cab

babi-hrse wrote: »

That's not nessacarily true. At 800m you can expect 50-60meg

I said "RADIUS" .. because nobody knows where they've ran the cables or if you in fact are connected to the nearest cabinet or what state this cables and dp's are in.

/M

CrummyOldDanish

While we're on the topic of FTTC, has anyone any information on changing from an exchange to a cabinet? I've had a quick search and found mixed responses. Some people saying flat out no, others saying they've gotten lucky, as well as some mentioning getting a new line.

My friend is under 100m - closer to 50m - from one cabinet (he can literally see it from his door) and about 150m from another. However, he's connected to the exchange which is a few kilometers away so he's getting about 6Mb and it's incredibly inconsistent. What's even more unusual is that he lives in a two story building that is split up into a few businesses and other homes. Everyone else in the building is getting FTTC, even the guy who lives directly above him. He's not tied up in a contract so he's free to try anything.

Airwire: MartinL

bcross12 wrote: »

While we're on the topic of FTTC, has anyone any information on changing from an exchange to a cabinet? I've had a quick search and found mixed responses. Some people saying flat out no, others saying they've gotten lucky, as well as some mentioning getting a new line.

It requires an inventive internet provider as OpenEIR have no procedures in place to move a line from an exchange to a cabinet. And it is not always possible. But it can be done.

tsue921i8wljb3

75126 FTTH connections at the end of Q3 2018 according to the latest Comreg Key Quarterly Data. Obviously this is split between all the operators, Openeir and SIRO being the largest. The previous reports had a trend of a 10000 increase quarter on quarter so only an extra 5000 in this report is surprising given the aggressive SIRO promotion.

https://www.comreg.ie/publication/quarterly-key-data-report-q3-2018/

tuxy

Take-up is still about 2 out of 14 houses on my stretch of road, easy to tell as it's all old houses with overhead install.
The best these houses can be getting on dsl is 12 Mbit.
I guess that's still fast enough to watch video in 1080p. FTTH install is a long game, something will eventually be a must have service and uptake will increase. Also once a house has been upgraded I can't see them ever cancelling it.

I still put some blame on the big marketing push for "fibre"(VDSL) that many got installed and were totally unimpressed with. People have been lied to so much about the advantages of a new technology by sales that they may be weary of believing them this time around.

Andy From Sligo

i'd like to see some kind of questionaire examined on it . Not sure who could carry it out or how it would work , but I would include questions like:

1.) Did you know fibre to the home is available in your area?
2.) do you know what speeds you can get with a FTTH connection?
3.) what do you (did you) think to the installation and connection charge?:
a.) too expensive
b.) very reasonable
c.) about the right price
4.) what do you think of the package price?:
a.) too expensive
b.) very reasonable
c.) about the right price
5.) how did you find the installation , did it go smoothly? was the work carried out tidy?
6.) was it installed in your opinion in a timely manner from time of ordering with your ISP to the time it was installed?
a.)yes
b.)no
if no please tell us more details ...

much better than speculation of why its such a slow take up - and might even help whoever, to explain where the process can be improved

if people have had a good experience they are more than likely going to tell their people in the area , if it was really bad and expensive the other people in the area are more likely to say "how much?" / "how much to get installed? - no thanks" / "how much for a package sure I am only paying 30eur now for my broadband" - "how much does it go up to after 6 months!! - get away with all that!" - "what? - how long did it take to get installed?, dont bother I will make do with what I have sure"

ED E

Why Andy?

The price won't magically come down. If OE/SIRO are unhappy with uptake they'll run promos like we've seen. If they aren't they wont.


If the KNN crews can manage 1000 installs a week say there's no point pricing it lower to get 2000 orders a week and create a backlog with a rake of bad PR. As Tux says this is a slow game.

darth_maul

OK, switched from eir to digiweb, they have changed me over but no new modem yet, so service, anyone know what needs to be changed on eirs router for it to work.

tuxy

Have you tried with the same settings?

Andy From Sligo

darth_maul wrote: »

OK, switched from eir to digiweb, they have changed me over but no new modem yet, so service, anyone know what needs to be changed on eirs router for it to work.

im not an expert but just see if this works until expert answers you. go into settings (think its normally http://192.168.1.1/ ) and sign into router - then go into internet tab, then choose Internet_ethernet and choose DCHP then I think for FTTH you will have to select Vlan 10 802.1p to zero - thats what I do on my Huawei HG659 and I think thats the same router as the eir f2000 - put the ethenet lead from the FTTH ONT into the 'WAN' socket of the router

darth_maul

Cheers, for that but that's not the issue, been on to digiweb and they havent a clue, only thing they advised is to put in their pppoe settings, but as far as I'm aware ftth doesn't use pppoe, have tried It but nothing

Andy From Sligo

darth_maul wrote: »

Cheers, for that but that's not the issue, been on to digiweb and they havent a clue, only thing they advised is to put in their pppoe settings, but as far as I'm aware ftth doesn't use pppoe, have tried It but nothing

oh right, sorry i dont know then. - yeah its only ADSL/VDSL that use ppoe

babi-hrse

bcross12 wrote: »

While we're on the topic of FTTC, has anyone any information on changing from an exchange to a cabinet? I've had a quick search and found mixed responses. Some people saying flat out no, others saying they've gotten lucky, as well as some mentioning getting a new line.

My friend is under 100m - closer to 50m - from one cabinet (he can literally see it from his door) and about 150m from another. However, he's connected to the exchange which is a few kilometers away so he's getting about 6Mb and it's incredibly inconsistent. What's even more unusual is that he lives in a two story building that is split up into a few businesses and other homes. Everyone else in the building is getting FTTC, even the guy who lives directly above him. He's not tied up in a contract so he's free to try anything.

Either the cab does not have a DSLAM next to it (no broadband in cab)
His line isn't going through them (yes it can happen in older areas)
The provider just chose to stick him on it or maybe he took a cheaper package
The provider wanted to use their own equipment in the exchange in what's called a line share.
Such as a BT block or leap. Dublin city center is full of all cases mentioned.some of the ADSL blocks are quite decent seem to be able to push 25mpbs out on the end of a significantly long line.
He could demand to be put on fttc or just try a different provider.

darth_maul

So basically have been told by digiweb that eir have began the transfer at the exchange but its not scheduled to be completed till Monday???
They have also categorically stated that they use PPPoe on FTTH and that I have to have that turned on, does anyone know if this is true, or is anyone using a third party router on FTTH and not using eir.

BTW I am using a netgear with ddwrt firmware and it was fine under eir.

oscarBravo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

oh right, sorry i dont know then. - yeah its only ADSL/VDSL that use ppoe

Several ISPs use PPPoE for FTTH.

Marlow

darth_maul wrote: »

Cheers, for that but that's not the issue, been on to digiweb and they havent a clue, only thing they advised is to put in their pppoe settings, but as far as I'm aware ftth doesn't use pppoe, have tried It but nothing

FTTH (and VDSL/FTTC) can use either or. Some providers use IPoE, others use PPPoE.

So they were 100% correct. Vlan 10 + PPPoE for Digiweb.

/M

Andy From Sligo

well sorry for my mis-information then

Andy From Sligo

darth_maul wrote: »

So basically have been told by digiweb that eir have began the transfer at the exchange but its not scheduled to be completed till Monday???
.....

ah right if its not completed til monday, does that mean you wont have any FTTH working until monday - and thats why the settings wont work? thats what it sounds like, and thats why its not working.

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

ah right if its not completed til monday, does that mean you wont have any FTTH working until monday - and thats why the settings wont work? thats what it sounds like, and thats why its not working.

No. A provider change (if done using the UAN) is always instant.

If Eir dropped the connection before that, then it may be because he cancelled it with Eir before Digiweb could enable/transfer the connection. But that sounds unlikely.

/M

ED E

Eir didnt drop him, he was isolated from them. OpenEir did as asked.


If I had to bet Digiweb have set up their RAS to create creds upon order completion not creation so while OpenEir have the order pretty much done theres nothing for him to auth against yet. Poor processes by them. If they were arsed they could setup a temp credential set for him to auth with.

Marlow

ED E wrote: »

If I had to bet Digiweb have set up their RAS to create creds upon order completion not creation so while OpenEir have the order pretty much done theres nothing for him to auth against yet. Poor processes by them. If they were arsed they could setup a temp credential set for him to auth with.

Order completion is pretty much instant after isolation. But it is indeed stupid not to have cred in place at the time of order opposed to order completion.

There is another scenario though ... it happens the odd time, that OpenEIR moves customers to the wrong provider and get their VLans mixed up

/M

irishgeo

whats the standard way ftth comes into a house.