Eir rural FTTH thread II

Johnboy1951

It is the lack of symmetrical connections that I find the most annoying.

I reckon a 75Mb/s symmetrical connection would suit my use case with lots of headroom to spare.

Other countries can provide symmetrical connections but not here unfortunately, unless by special order with consequent costs.

This, I believe is one factor that will come back to bite us long before the alleged 25 year life span of this fibre roll out is at an end.

Andy From Sligo

maybe its a carefully honed marketing tool as well as technological issue .

Customer goes to order 150mbps but not happy with the upload speed ... customer is told "if you upgrade to a dearer / faster download speed /package you can avail of the faster upload speed

fritzelly

Most people do not need a fast upload, in most cases you are only sending bytes of information upstream. Even with video games you are talking kb's of data - main issue there is the quality of the connection - not losing data, not the speed. This is more prevalent on wifi/data connections but crap cabling causes it i.e. copper lines
Live streaming HD you could get away with 10mb upload

Johnboy1951

fritzelly wrote: »

Most people do not need a fast upload, in most cases you are only sending bytes of information upstream. Even with video games you are talking kb's of data - main issue there is the quality of the connection - not losing data, not the speed. This is more prevalent on wifi/data connections but crap cabling causes it i.e. copper lines
Live streaming HD you could get away with 10mb upload

Certainly most people at this time do not need more than 10Mb/s upload speed.
That of course does not mean that a sizeable minority do not have such a need, nor does it mean that as we progress over the next couple of decades that this need will affect a majority of people.

It was not so long ago that a 1Mb/s upload speed was very large indeed, and rarely available.

We should have an infrastructure that is capable of handling these future changes in use and need.
Apparently we don't .....

.

brianbruff

My mum has an old ipad mini. Defo getting the 1gbps for her, it will make it so fast to open facebook app. Any providers doing symmetrical 1gbps this would be better again for her I think.



P.s. yes I'm trolling

I would like 1gbps symmetrical or faster if I could get it for myself been using these speeds for years in the public cloud and it sure does make life easier.

tsue921i8wljb3

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Certainly most people at this time do not need more than 10Mb/s upload speed.
That of course does not mean that a sizeable minority do not have such a need, nor does it mean that as we progress over the next couple of decades that this need will affect a majority of people.

It was not so long ago that a 1Mb/s upload speed was very large indeed, and rarely available.

We should have an infrastructure that is capable of handling these future changes in use and need.
Apparently we don't .....

.

We do though. There is 1.2 Gb/s upload available per cluster. They could quite easily offer the 75Mb/s symmetric connection you were talking about but obviously they don't see the need or customer demand is not there. Headline download speed sells so gigabit is the latest buzz word.

fritzelly

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

We should have an infrastructure that is capable of handling these future changes in use and need.
Apparently we don't .....

.

We do on fibre, it's only a matter of allowing it. Copper lines dont allow it really
95% of people would never use it, most case points are business who are mayvbe doing backups for example (surprised they don't actually offer that for business plans), torrenting (then you would be more likely using a seed box)
But anyone needing that kind of upload speed would need to be answering the question why you need it for a residential connection? BW still costs money.
And remember they've only just started offering unlimited downloads - baby steps

oleras

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

i will go for the 1gbps if i can afford it lol

(waits for you to say "I rest my case")

Are you the same poster who a few weeks ago found it hard to justify FTTH speeds @150 at all ?

Yeah, rhetorical question, just couldn't be arsed finding the post.

Andy From Sligo

brianbruff wrote: »

My mum has an old ipad mini. Defo getting the 1gbps for her, it will make it so fast to open facebook app. Any providers doing symmetrical 1gbps this would be better again for her I think.



P.s. yes I'm trolling

I would like 1gbps symmetrical or faster if I could get it for myself been using these speeds for years in the public cloud and it sure does make life easier.

i like your honesty

Johnboy1951

fritzelly wrote: »

We do on fibre, it's only a matter of allowing it. Copper lines dont allow it really
95% of people would never use it, most case points are business who are mayvbe doing backups for example (surprised they don't actually offer that for business plans), torrenting (then you would be more likely using a seed box)
But anyone needing that kind of upload speed would need to be answering the question why you need it for a residential connection? BW still costs money.
And remember they've only just started offering unlimited downloads - baby steps

It is my understanding that the hardware (not the fibre) used presently is not generally capable ..... is that incorrect?

Overall BW would not necessarily change.
For instance if I was offered an 80mb/s symmetrical connection (160Mb/s BW) I would much prefer it to 150/10 Mb/s.

You do not seem to realise that people are now storing GBs of data 'in the cloud' which requires large upload speed.
That need will increase as time passes and people get used to using such backup services.

Andy From Sligo

oleras wrote: »

Are you the same poster who a few weeks ago found it hard to justify FTTH speeds @150 at all ?

Yeah, rhetorical question, just couldn't be arsed finding the post.

I cant remember if that was me or not - and same here too I cant be arsed finding the post

fritzelly

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You do not seem to realise that people are now storing GBs of data 'in the cloud' which requires large upload speed.
That need will increase as time passes and people get used to using such backup services.

People are not uploading gigs of data every day, yes they may have gigs of data stored online but that is a gradual process...backing up photos as you take them etc

fritzelly

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I cant remember if that was me or not - and same here too I cant be arsed finding the post

It was you lol

Andy From Sligo

fritzelly wrote: »

It was you lol

What can I say , I am like a woman, I keep changing my mind

ED E

Andy

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

i will go for the 1gbps if i can afford it lol

(waits for you to say "I rest my case")

Also Andy:
(Complaining about a cafe in a hospital he wasn't even visiting)

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

says someone who most probably earns a decent wage and dont have to conserve their money and make it stretch in life

I fully expect to be carded for this but you're a gormless f#cking idiot. Even the recluse of AH that lives in a hovel with her cats is more bearable.

Andy From Sligo

With newer laptops coming out now with a paltry 30gb of hard drive (SSD) in them now days and nearly all of that taken up by the operating system there is and will be even more of a need for consumers to back up to the cloud with a stable and fast upload rate..

fritzelly

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

With newer laptops coming out now with a paltry 30gb of hard drive (SSD) in them now days and nearly all of that taken up by the operating system there is and will be even more of a need for consumers to back up to the cloud with a stable and fast upload rate..

When was the last time you bought a laptop? Guessing not this century. There maybe some laptops with a small SSD drive but also have a standard HDD drive but even those are rare nowadays

Marlow

fritzelly wrote: »

People are not uploading gigs of data every day, yes they may have gigs of data stored online but that is a gradual process...backing up photos as you take them etc

That was only one case .. here's another one:

VPN and working from home. And there is lots of those as companies have ran short on space in their offices they have moved teleworkers, sales, IT staff, support and management to work from home. I know of at least 3 large corporations that do this. And for some of them, the days where your broadband has issues and you'll fall off the grid for an hour, you don't get paid.

They need access to download and upload files from the corporate server, use VoIP to the corporate phone system, video conferencing for meetings etc.

All things that require upload and where the 20 Mbit (optimally) on VDSL and 30 Mbit on FTTH (on the 150 Mbit package) get tight. Nevermind upload speeds on other tech.

SIRO identified this and offers customized symmetric profiles up to 1 Gbit/1 Gbit on their platform. But only as business packages.

OpenEir does this not, because it would eat into their NGN revenue.

/M

turbbo

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It is my understanding that the hardware (not the fibre) used presently is not generally capable ..... is that incorrect?

Overall BW would not necessarily change.
For instance if I was offered an 80mb/s symmetrical connection (160Mb/s BW) I would much prefer it to 150/10 Mb/s.

You do not seem to realise that people are now storing GBs of data 'in the cloud' which requires large upload speed.
That need will increase as time passes and people get used to using such backup services.

Backup locally. Hate having to pay subs for what is dirt cheap disk these days.

MBSnr

Marlow wrote: »

That was only one case .. here's another one:

VPN and working from home. And there is lots of those as companies have ran short on space in their offices they have moved teleworkers, sales, IT staff, support and management to work from home. I know of at least 3 large corporations that do this. And for some of them, the days where your broadband has issues and you'll fall off the grid for an hour, you don't get paid.

They need access to download and upload files from the corporate server, use VoIP to the corporate phone system, video conferencing for meetings etc.

All things that require upload and where the 20 Mbit (optimally) on VDSL and 30 Mbit on FTTH (on the 150 Mbit package) get tight. Nevermind upload speeds on other tech.

SIRO identified this and offers customized symmetric profiles up to 1 Gbit/1 Gbit on their platform. But only as business packages.

OpenEir does this not, because it would eat into their NGN revenue. Not sure I understand your "eat into their NGN revenue" reference.


/M

On this what options are available for a business solely in an area with eNet MAN fibre? Have things changed since OpenEir has a core backhaul network or do eNet use their own links across the country. I want to see if there is any means of reducing the huge amount we pay a provider for a 100 symmetrical service. Is it possible to get that service from OpenEir with SLAs if the fibre was in place? Not sure I understand your "eat into their NGN revenue".

MBSnr

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

With newer laptops coming out now with a paltry 30gb of hard drive (SSD) in them now days and nearly all of that taken up by the operating system there is and will be even more of a need for consumers to back up to the cloud with a stable and fast upload rate..

Chromebooks and HP Stream devices do have limited local storage as Google wants you to store everything in their cloud. However most base laptops on sale have 128GB SSDs to start with. Obviously larger SSDs jump in cost so some laptops offer storage using SATA spinning drives instead (1TB) to reduce the cost.

turbbo

MBSnr wrote: »

Chromebooks and HP Stream devices do have limited local storage as Google wants you to store everything in their cloud. However most base laptops on sale have 128GB SSDs to start with. Obviously larger SSDs jump in cost so some laptops offer storage using SATA spinning drives instead (1TB) to reduce the cost.

Consumer grade junk.

MBSnr

turbbo wrote: »

Consumer grade junk.

One liner posts are great aren't they...

Marlow

MBSnr wrote: »

On this what options are available for a business solely in an area with eNet MAN fibre? Have things changed since OpenEir has a core backhaul network or do eNet use their own links across the country. I want to see if there is any means of reducing the huge amount we pay a provider for a 100 symmetrical service. Is it possible to get that service from OpenEir with SLAs if the fibre was in place? Not sure I understand your "eat into their NGN revenue".

Different kettle of fish entirely.

eNet does not have any national fibre. They rely on ESBt and CIE fibre to get across. But that only matters to themselves. Because most providers only use them locally and then use their own connectivity across the country.

OpenEirs NGN fibre network is what connects the exchanges with each other. As a provider you can order a fibre connection pretty much anywhere in the country. With a SLA and uncontended. That was already the case previous to the FTTH rollout. And that's a costly product.

So in a rural setting eNet themselves wouldn't even come into the picture.

And in an urban setting SIRO are now making inroads with a more cost effective product where a provider previously would have been stuck with having to use enet, OpenEir, BT or the likes.

But don't be fooled: cost comes down by adding contention. Not because these networks have been build. Fibre connectivity overall is extremely costly in Ireland. Also to the provider.

/M

medoc

Would anyone have any idea where I could get information on when our exchange - Mount Bolus in Offaly will be done. Was supposed to be in the 2nd half of 2018. I know the final finish date has slipped to mid 2019. I contacted open Eir by email last November and on twitter a few times and got no response.

Andy From Sligo

MBSnr wrote: »

Chromebooks and HP Stream devices do have limited local storage as Google wants you to store everything in their cloud. However most base laptops on sale have 128GB SSDs to start with. Obviously larger SSDs jump in cost so some laptops offer storage using SATA spinning drives instead (1TB) to reduce the cost.

lets not forget budget laptops are a real hit these days , very attractive price , very thin and light , and because no traditional SATA mechanical drives built in are easire on battery power too. - very attractive to schoolchldren and college students as well as other people to - it wont be long until mechanical SATA drives are phased out now you wait and see. and yes maybe large SATA SSD drives of 500gb and 1TB and 2TB will come as standard when the other medium is phased out and SSD prices come well down in price. But it is attractive to laptop manufacturers to make just enough space to put the operating system onto the device with little space left for anything else and let people decide where to store all their documents pictures videos films, music. whether that be locally onto external USB Hard drive or up to the cloud it doesnt really concern manufaturers (as I say just as long as they can put their OS on it and have enough space for downloads for updates to the OS)

and that means that a lot of budget entry level attractively priced laptops/netbooks that are coming out are a plethora of 32gb SSD (or even cheaper for the manufacturer to solder the SSD memory chips straight onto the main board which is increasingly popular now) some might put 64gb and I have seen a couple of dearer laptops around 500-600 with 128GB SSD.

People (and home consumers I am talking about) on their previous laptops might have previously had a laptop with a mechanical 1tb drive in it , and even then with all their media of photos films videos music etc coming to the end of that drive they will be the candidates maybe of uploading huge files up to the cloud . thats really who need that greater upload speed. Yep maybe for most who just upload the odd photo or document 30mbps upload will be more than enough.

Andy From Sligo

turbbo wrote: »

Consumer grade junk.

I guess that's why they must be selling like hot cakes these days and popular with a lot of people in the consumer sector and businesses ...

turbbo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I guess that's why they must be selling like hot cakes these days and popular with a lot of people in the consumer sector and businesses ...

Don't know many businesses using Chromebooks and HP Stream devices??

tsue921i8wljb3

medoc wrote: »

Would anyone have any idea where I could get information on when our exchange - Mount Bolus in Offaly will be done. Was supposed to be in the 2nd half of 2018. I know the final finish date has slipped to mid 2019. I contacted open Eir by email last November and on twitter a few times and got no response.

The best indication is by checking if preparation work has been completed (poles replaced, manholes rebuilt) and if there is fibre cable and distribution point boxes on the poles in your area. That gives you a decent indication that the area should be live soon although there are exceptions to that rule also. open eir are notoriously difficult to get information from..

Andy From Sligo

ED E wrote: »

Andy



Also Andy:
(Complaining about a cafe in a hospital he wasn't even visiting)


I fully expect to be carded for this but you're a gormless f#cking idiot. Even the recluse of AH that lives in a hovel with her cats is more bearable.

here's one for ya - how about attacking the posts but not the poster - if you can possibly find it not too hard to exercise being civil

I personally don't care what you think about me and my posts. - just your caustic reply and name calling tells me I should not even bother lowering to your level and taking your bait and arguing with you ...

I just hope a moderator on here picks you up on going off topic and being abusive to another member of boards which i am sure is not allowed in the rules .