Eir rural FTTH thread II

babi-hrse

The copper cable will not be removed we were told it's some EU law concerning people's right to communication and this was seen as depriving them. Sounds like a lot of hokey but we won't use a existing phone line as a draw rope too likely is the situation of taping a cable to copper line only to have it let go halfway through and no way to get either back up.
Has the potential to end up as a failed install with the added bonus that you've just taken out a customer's existing line which is a whole other headache.

For internal wiring they might accommodate using existing cable as a pull rope if they can clearly see both ends and there's no drag on the cable. If it feels like it's rubbing off a concrete block at a unseen corner it's sure to take off the tape and let go.
If the engineer comes and the underground cable is already cut for use as a draw rope he'll use it insofar as your not using it and he had nothing to do with it not being connected to house. I wouldn't recommend this. You could end up paying for a copper line service you tampered with and denied to yourself and nobody else is responsible.
Sorry to ramble but short answer is for internal wiring they may do it if it's not stuck
For external underground not likely

cnocbui

I get the impression that ducting in the loft is required so that the cable can be pulled through without snagging, as installers aren't supposed to go into lofts. You might get an installer who wouldn't mind you getting into the loft and pulling the cable through yourself, then ducting wouldn't be needed.

My installer was happy for me to do the loft as the alternative was no install and no payment for the job.

babi-hrse

cnocbui wrote: »

I get the impression that ducting in the loft is required so that the cable can be pulled through without snagging, as installers aren't supposed to go into lofts. You might get an installer who wouldn't mind you getting into the loft and pulling the cable through yourself, then ducting wouldn't be needed.

My installer was happy for me to do the loft as the alternative was no install and no payment for the job.

That's exactly it you don't necessarily have to duct the loft that's just makes it easier if your happy to climb in your own loft and take cable across. We won't go in there because we're not covered if our foot comes through the ceiling I climbed in an attic once and when I got down there was a plaster crack on the ceiling radiating along from where the access hatch was all the way to the load bearing wall as the boards flexed in the attic when I was kneeling on them. It was minor and the owner didn't mind but in the wrong house that's a huge argument.

Andy From Sligo

when i first moved to Ireland in the 90's my in-laws asked me to go up in their loft in their house and put some bits up there I went up with a battery torch , put my hand on a joist and one of the biggest electrical shocks I have had - shone the torch and someone had 'insulated' one of the lighting circuit wires up there with a sticking plaster :eek: the ones you put on a cut on your finger. I guess maybe a rat or something chewed into it at one stage.

Going up in the loft for installation , I dont blame them avoiding it at all costs the installers :

Tight space
Dark
sweltering in the summer
Freezing in the winter
Potential of loft insulation causing allergic reaction or get into lungs
risk of electrocution if iffy wiring up there
risk of foot slipping off joist and foot through ceiling
wasps nests / flies nest
no ladder to get up in loft hoisting yourself up through the hatch

I am sure there are other caveats I havent listed - no, they are much safer just bringing up through the UG duct and keep their feet firmly on terra ferma !

iPhone.

Thanks for the info folks.

The current copper cable comes from the pole across the road, about 20 metres, straight to my gable wall where its anchored to the concrete wall via a steel ring which is bolted into the concrete.

It then just goes straight through the wall into the loft and across the loft floor.

I would have no problem with going into the loft myself and pulling the new cable through and exiting it down into the same room the current copper cable goes to, essentially the same route as it now follows but with fibre cable instead of copper.

What's the chances of them agreeing to this? Also will they drill another hole in the gable wall beside the existing entry point for the old copper cable or will I have to do that?

DubInTheWest

A bit of activity over this was around 9.30am this morning. I woke up to 'hammering,' I looked out and there was an open eir van with the hoist just across the road. The chap seemed to be 'tightening' the currently wires for the VDSL. I could be way off the mark but when I say tightening, I mean he went up on the hoist to the top of the pole and then his hand/arm was moving like he was reeling in a fishing rod. This went on for a few minutes, then after that he was hammering away. After than he moved down to the next pole and so on to every pole.

Was he tightening the cables, possibly for the KN guys with the fibre when they come along ?

Also, now if I go to the official eir.ie and type in my eir code it say 'fibre is available' and lists the packages. So hopefully the fibre is imminent, the date say 6th feb, so fingers crossed here.

Marlow

digiman wrote: »

It's the large ISPs that are driving it, no reason why an ISP has to go with it though, existing option can still work alongside it for ISPs that wish to stick to that.

It's been discussed, but it actually is not cost effective and messes with the demarc. So I don't see it happening.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

25 a month for 6 months and 90 thereafter plus 6.99 per month because of our fecking alarm

99 installation fee

Year 1 is 872 vs 909 with eir. Month 13 on eir would be cheaper by 7 a month

Can always swap after 12 months to a lower package or different provider

tuxy wrote: »

So 12 month contract not 18?

How long do you think it would take to go over vodafones FUP at that speed?

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Didnt know it was 18 months, but 12 + 5 months puts it at parity with eir then 1 month of being 7 quid more expensive (because of my alarm)

Wasnt aware they had a FUP that would ruin the plan

First of all, ALL Vodafone plans are 18 months unless you sign up online. And the 1000 Mbit/s is always 18 months.

Vodafone have a 1 TB FUP .. yes ..

Vodafone - 15. The fair usage cap for data usage on the Gigabit Broadband Service is 1000 GB over the course of any given billable month. If you exceed the fair usage cap for data on more than two (2) occasions in any calendar year then Vodafone may terminate or suspend your Gigabit Broadband Service. Vodafone will proactively contact you in advance of any suspension or termination

This page has it all: https://n.vodafone.ie/terms/fixed.html

It explains on the 12 months online exclusive offer.

And the cap etc. and the fact it's 18 months is in the Vodafone Gigabit section. Oh .. and

Gigabit Broadband (FTTH) packages provided on Open EIR network are excluded.

No such thing as 12 months contracts on OpenEIR FTTH with Vodafone. "Gigabit Broadband" is the product name for all of Vodafones FTTH packages. Even 150 Mbit/s ones.

On top of that, you have to ALWAYS add 1 month on top of what you're paying Vodafone. Because with Vodafone you've got 30 days notice, which start from the day you port your line away to another provider. So when you change provider, you still have to pay Vodafone another month.

/M

DubInTheWest

Just regarding your post above Marlow on the FUP. I see conflicting answers over on the ask eir. So for people in the know here. I'm currently with eir. I have the home phone, the VDSL, and 2 mobiles on the package. If I upgrade to the FTTH, and I FUP free, or as I'm only upgrading have I the 1TB limit ?

I've 6 months left with eir but I'm considering taking the hit and just going with airwire and paying for both services until my eir runs out.

Thanks in advance

Andy From Sligo

iPhone. wrote: »

Thanks for the info folks.

The current copper cable comes from the pole across the road, about 20 metres, straight to my gable wall where its anchored to the concrete wall via a steel ring which is bolted into the concrete.

It then just goes straight through the wall into the loft and across the loft floor.

I would have no problem with going into the loft myself and pulling the new cable through and exiting it down into the same room the current copper cable goes to, essentially the same route as it now follows but with fibre cable instead of copper.

What's the chances of them agreeing to this? Also will they drill another hole in the gable wall beside the existing entry point for the old copper cable or will I have to do that?

so with your setup there at your home you are going to have to have FTTH coming from pole to gable then ? - not UG duct?

Andy From Sligo

DubInTheWest wrote: »

A bit of activity over this was around 9.30am this morning. I woke up to 'hammering,' I looked out and there was an open eir van with the hoist just across the road. The chap seemed to be 'tightening' the currently wires for the VDSL. I could be way off the mark but when I say tightening, I mean he went up on the hoist to the top of the pole and then his hand/arm was moving like he was reeling in a fishing rod. This went on for a few minutes, then after that he was hammering away. After than he moved down to the next pole and so on to every pole.

Was he tightening the cables, possibly for the KN guys with the fibre when they come along ?

Also, now if I go to the official eir.ie and type in my eir code it say 'fibre is available' and lists the packages. So hopefully the fibre is imminent, the date say 6th feb, so fingers crossed here.

wow - working on a Sunday? ... and Sunday morning at that!

DubInTheWest

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

wow - working on a Sunday? ... and Sunday morning at that!

Yeah that's what I was thinking, it must be to do with the fibre some way or another. It's usually a busy one lane country road, so I imagine they wanted to get it done while there was little traffic. But I agree early on a sunday...

Marlow

DubInTheWest wrote: »

Just regarding your post above Marlow on the FUP. I see conflicting answers over on the ask eir. So for people in the know here. I'm currently with eir. I have the home phone, the VDSL, and 2 mobiles on the package. If I upgrade to the FTTH, and I FUP free, or as I'm only upgrading have I the 1TB limit ?

I've 6 months left with eir but I'm considering taking the hit and just going with airwire and paying for both services until my eir runs out.

Thanks in advance

With Eir re-contracting customers should not have any limit anymore. But again .. the question is, if the saving is worth the hassle dealing with them ?

If you can't get answers before you sign up, what will it be, when you continue to have the service from them ?

/M

Marlow

iPhone. wrote: »

Thanks for the info folks.

The current copper cable comes from the pole across the road, about 20 metres, straight to my gable wall where its anchored to the concrete wall via a steel ring which is bolted into the concrete.

It then just goes straight through the wall into the loft and across the loft floor.

I would have no problem with going into the loft myself and pulling the new cable through and exiting it down into the same room the current copper cable goes to, essentially the same route as it now follows but with fibre cable instead of copper.

What's the chances of them agreeing to this? Also will they drill another hole in the gable wall beside the existing entry point for the old copper cable or will I have to do that?

OpenEIRs take on lofts is: NO ....

Some engineers may or may not agree to it. It's hit and miss.

There is an official statement from OpenEIR though: if you drill the hole, place ducting from the entry point in the loft to the room, where you want the connection placed and put a pull-rope in said duct, then the engineer will use that.

That's, according to OpenEIR, the only acceptable way to route a cable through the loft/attic. At this point of time that is.

/M

Andy From Sligo

DubInTheWest wrote: »

Yeah that's what I was thinking, it must be to do with the fibre some way or another. It's usually a busy one lane country road, so I imagine they wanted to get it done while there was little traffic. But I agree early on a sunday...

must of been why that - unless they are behind schedule and have to catch up. I could understand emergency OE crews out say if wind/storm brought down cables or a cable that runs overhead that has come down on the road , but I would have though for other stuff they would have left for normal hours/days of the week

DubInTheWest

Marlow wrote: »

With Eir re-contracting customers should not have any limit anymore. But again .. the question is, if the saving is worth the hassle dealing with them ?

If you can't get answers before you sign up, what will it be, when you continue to have the service from them ?

/M

Oh they are desperate I know that from experience. If they can't guarantee the no FUP I'm gone 100%. If I stick with them and go with airwire, it will cost me around €480 on top of what I'm paying already. I'll see how it goes.

iPhone.

Marlow wrote: »

OpenEIRs take on lofts is: NO ....

Some engineers may or may not agree to it. It's hit and miss.

There is an official statement from OpenEIR though: if you drill the hole, place ducting from the entry point in the loft to the room, where you want the connection placed and put a pull-rope in said duct, then the engineer will use that.

That's, according to OpenEIR, the only acceptable way to route a cable through the loft/attic. At this point of time that is.

/M

I can understand their own engineer not going into the loft, but if it's a case of the engineer being asked to push the fibre through a hole in the wall, then go and wait in the room inside for it to magically appear at the termination point, why would they object to that?

Marlow

iPhone. wrote: »

I can understand their own engineer not going into the loft, but if it's a case of the engineer being asked to push the fibre through a hole in the wall, then go and wait in the room inside for it to magically appear at the termination point, why would they object to that?

Because it has to be servicable and they have to stand over the entire job.

Again .. it depends on the engineer .. i'm just pointing out that by their rule set, he can blank refuse it unless you do it the way i described.

/M

frozenfrozen

Thanks for the great replies above re the weirdness of vodafone.

18 months contract and 1TB FUP means it's not a contender for me anymore..

Which leads me to the horrible question,

Are Eir now my only option if I want to keep a copper phone line with ftth? (And no FUP, and no separate 50 euro line rental etc)

Marlow

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Are Eir now my only option if I want to keep a copper phone line with ftth? (And no FUP, and no separate 50 euro line rental etc)

Yes, your options are getting very limited.

To the point, where it's becoming cheaper upgrading your alarm system. There's no savings to be had, when you limit yourself like that. Shortcuts always backfire.

Wouldn't it make more sense to shop around with alarm providers and see, what sort of deal they can offer you, that's a bit more future proofed ?

/M

fritzelly

Not only that, even if you go with eir after 12 months your price goes right up and you're restricted to who you can use, Vodafone and Sky have comparable bad customer service
If on a monitored alarm ask for an upgrade

Johnboy1951

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Thanks for the great replies above re the weirdness of vodafone.

18 months contract and 1TB FUP means it's not a contender for me anymore..

Which leads me to the horrible question,

Are Eir now my only option if I want to keep a copper phone line with ftth? (And no FUP, and no separate 50 euro line rental etc)

At least eir do not charge extra for keeping the copper line and using it for phone.

Yes eir customer support is a complete mess.
BUT .... how often does anyone really need to contact their ISP after the install is complete?
Sure it is a hassle to get everything settled and get connected, but after that?

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

BUT .... how often does anyone really need to contact their ISP after the install is complete?
Sure it is a hassle to get everything settled and get connected, but after that?

For any bill that they get wrong. And in my experience that happens more than often.

/M

Johnboy1951

Marlow wrote: »

For any bill that they get wrong. And in my experience that happens more than often.

/M

I must be living in a 'special' area, as neither myself, nor neighbours I spoke with, have had such experiences in many years.

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I must be living in a 'special' area, as neither myself, nor neighbours I spoke with, have had such experiences in many years.

Why is it then, that Eir is in the courts for over billing on a regular basis and gets fined for doing so ?

It may never happen. But what if ? Why taking the risk, when they clearly have a reputation for it ? And you will need to talk to them after a year for sure .. unless you're willing to pay their regular pricing. Saving worth the hassle ?

/M

tuxy

If you read the talk to eir forum you see people that constantly have to contact customer support(or try to as it's easier said than done)
All the weird issues that eir have are fairly random so of course many have not been hit by them. But if you are you are in big trouble.

Johnboy1951

tuxy wrote: »

If you read the talk to eir forum you see people that constantly have to contact customer support(or try to as it's easier said than done)
All the weird issues that eir have are fairly random so of course many have not been hit by them. But if you are you are in big trouble.

Of course that is what you will see on that forum and also in general on Boards ........ complaints.

Has anyone any idea what % of customers of eir have these problems?
Reading Boards one could well believe it is the majority ..... but that belief is not founded in actual figures.

Why is it then, that Eir is in the courts for over billing on a regular basis and gets fined for doing so ?

Maybe because they believe they are right and are prepared to go to court to prove it?

Instead of blanket questions implying they are always in the wrong, how about linking to a whole bunch of cases where they were found to be wrong?
You think certain people do not pay some of their bills?

babi-hrse

Marlow wrote: »

OpenEIRs take on lofts is: NO ....

Some engineers may or may not agree to it. It's hit and miss.

There is an official statement from OpenEIR though: if you drill the hole, place ducting from the entry point in the loft to the room, where you want the connection placed and put a pull-rope in said duct, then the engineer will use that.

That's, according to OpenEIR, the only acceptable way to route a cable through the loft/attic. At this point of time that is.

/M

Openeirs take on lofts is no but having said that if he can stand up and look up in the loft area and see nothing that is going to snag or cut fibre he'll I'd be agreeable to drill from outside and put through for you to pull across provided you keep it near the corners and maybe cable tie it to the rafters battens ect.
As for the bringing it down into the room below that's where you have a problem. Its only allowed 1m into living space this means you can't bring it all the way down the wall to power socket height. If you can bring it down inside a stud wall you'll get your wish or even run electrical stick on conduit down the wall to put it into.
As long as nobody is going to see a black cable coming more than 1m through any living spaces your good. Alternatively you can drop it down into a hot press or cupboard all the way to the floor if you wish.
Plan your route

cnocbui

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

At least eir do not charge extra for keeping the copper line and using it for phone.

Yes eir customer support is a complete mess.
BUT .... how often does anyone really need to contact their ISP after the install is complete?
Sure it is a hassle to get everything settled and get connected, but after that?

Well I should have contacted Eir and asked for a new router but didn't because of the reported difficulties in contacting them at the moment. I had to ring their Indian support after my install at least 3 times.

tuxy

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Of course that is what you will see on that forum and also in general on Boards ........ complaints.

I understand that and have taken it into consideration. When I say take a look at what's happening on the Eir talk to I mean compare it to the talk to section of other ISPs. There's something seriously wrong with eir Customer service when compared to other providers.

MBSnr

^^^
I had a billing issue with Digiweb. Rang and got through immediately. Credit note emailed to me within 24 hours. Next bill had the credit applied.

I tried to renew my Eir mobile SIM only plan. It didn't go through correctly. It took 3 days to even get through to customer services. It'll take 10 days via another department to resolve - allegedly.... This was a vague reply on their Twitter feed. That was the only way I got any contact with their customer service. I'm porting my number as they are useless.