Eir rural FTTH thread II

tuxy

The point was the KN guys are not even told who the provider is.
The seperation of Eir and open eir has been a positive step even if it isn't perfect.

Andy From Sligo

tuxy wrote: »

The point was the KN guys are not even told who the provider is.
The seperation of Eir and open eir has been a positive step even if it isn't perfect.

do you mean in an actual operations way? - i am sure its not in a general public way if say a customer calls up eir technical support to get a hardware/infrastructure issue solved only to be told the infrastructure and the eir retail are seperate entities - would have been far better to rename them when they split them up .. and totally different names so no confusion could exist at all

babi-hrse

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

the recent experience I had of that was last summer when the eir rep came a knocking at my door - he said FTTH was showing up at live at my address on 'his system' - his system was a tablet in his hand.

Nice enough young chap, not too pushy. But I did have to explain a couple of times that I had checked the eir eircode checker and it said it wasnt available and not available on the airwire checker.. still get the feeling he didnt believe me back then because he kept saying it was weird that it was showing up on his system as live

EDIT: ah yeah he come back just after christmas and was trying to get me signed up to VDSL FTTC and I said "no I am still holding out out for FTTH when it finally comes" and I said to him anyway VDSL is only up the 7mbps down here and he goes "No, I just checked it a few doors up and was getting 20mbps download speed" .. again I dunno whether he was bullsh!tting just to get a sale - but airwire reports FTTC available at my address upto to 7mbps too

He was bull****ting. He's not gonna be going into every other house and reading their speediest results.
7mpbs can be about 1.3 1.4km from cab 1.2km on a good clean pair can get you 15-20mpbs
I have a 1.2km line all overhead to myself was getting 16mpbs climbed in the attic saw a 20m ADSL cable running across attic and bundled up in the corner removed and ran a copper utp twisted pair to modem and and improved so much that I was able to get 20 attainables jumped from 18mpbs to 25mpbs
You always keep your speed profile lower than your attainables or you'll keep getting on and off disconnects. (That the whole my internet keeps dropping out then after a call to the provider its fixed and you notice your speed is slowed down).
Think of noise on a line as background hum on a dodgy speaker and signal is volume of speaker.
It's quiet but clear (slow but stable) you turn up the volume on the speaker sure it gets louder but so does the humming and crackling (faster but not as stable) in broadband terms on copper networks that enough to loose synch.
Things that generate noise
quality of cable
shielding material of cable
inducted current from nearby electrics
earthed or shorted cables
additional cable that didn't need to be there like multiple cables spliced into a big web of phone lines running around the house.
Course all this has nothing to do with ftth

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

do you mean in an actual operations way? - i am sure its not in a general public way if say a customer calls up eir technical support to get a hardware/infrastructure issue solved only to be told the infrastructure and the eir retail are seperate entities - would have been far better to rename them when they split them up .. and totally different names so no confusion could exist at all

You are confusing things again.

Every provider does technical support directly to their customer. So does Eir retail.

OpenEIR NEVER deals with the general public directly. You don't get to troubleshoot with anybody in OpenEIR ... ever. Your provider does. You deal with your provider.

If there is a problem within OpenEirs network, it your provider that has to sort that out.

End of story.

And they did indeed rename them. They used to be called "Eircom" and "Eircom wholesale". Now they're called "Eir" and "OpenEir". Both of which are companies belonging to Eircom PLC.

/M

babi-hrse

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

do you think that should be the way that it should be ? - i know thats the way it is now but i dont think it helps things

and of course most of the consumers in ireland wouldl think eir and Openeir will be one of the same thing and work tightly in conjunction with eachother

Nope they are not supposed to talk about anything from one to the other.
When gdpr came in it was all documented on presentations depicted in use case scenarios like "a manager in eir retail rings up planning in open eir and asks how many customers are with eir and how many with another provider. Is this allowed" all answers were absolutely not they would be breaking competition laws with all of openeirs downstream customers and breaking gdpr
People in eir retail know as much as someone in any other provider they don't know much about the actual network they leave that to openeir to sort out.

In a personal opinion it's better because it doesn't tarnish the actual engineers name with the incompetency of the provider.
The engineer isn't at fault if the provider missold a service that the engineer knows off the bat won't work.
That's why you can't take anything the door to door sales people say as fact. They don't work on the network and they don't know how it even works.

Marlow

babi-hrse wrote: »

When gdpr came in it was all documented on presentations depicted in use case scenarios like "a manager in eir retail rings up planning in open eir and asks how many customers are with eir and how many with another provider. Is this allowed" all answers were absolutely not they would be breaking competition laws with all of openeirs downstream customers and breaking gdpr

Not only that. Every provider signs a NDA with OpenEIR and OpenEIR countersign that NDA. It goes both ways. Forget GDPR. Even before GDPR there was a Non disclosure agreement, that has clearly defined fines.

Eir retail can have zero access to any figures relating to other providers other than what OpenEIR share with the department and what is public.

This is exactly, why I'm always pointing out, that there is no advantage going with Eir over other providers. The differences these days are down to:

- pricing
- extras
- support and service
- quality
- contention in the providers network
- upstream and network between upstream and last mile

Everything else is equal.

And then there's the fact, that Eir retail still has 5 different billing systems and a front end system interfacing with OpenEIR, that builds on top of UG, which often more is sabotaging themselves than helping them. The last time they rebuild their billing system, they skimped on it .. even though they paid millions .. and could subsequently not run decent reports to figure out what's going on.

And when they fired all external contractors (as Niel took over .. all those were fired blanketly) .. they fired the only people that actually could make sense of it.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Strawberry HillBilly wrote: »

I have run tests on PC and laptop with the WiFi disabled on the router by Eir technical rep during my call.(I had disabled the WiFi on the PC in any case)

I assume the PC and the router are directly connected by Ethernet cable with nothing like powerline adapters in between?

I also assume that you have made no changes to any router settings?

If so it's somewhat odd that you are getting low download speed on two different machines. However you can still try some things to rule out your own hardware. From easiest to most awkward

1) Try a different browser so try IE/Edge and Firefox if you are using Chrome or vice versa.
Choose the Blacknight server in Carlow on speedtest.net and use incognito/private browsing to test.

2) Replace the Ethernet cables between the ONT and router and the router and PC if possible. They are unlikely to be faulty but it is a slim possibility.

3) Boot Windows into safe mode with networking (Google for instructions for your particular version of Windows). Then repeat the tests in number 1)

4) If you have a spare USB stick at least 2GB in size download and install Linux Mint on the stick and boot the PC into the live Linux then repeat the tests in 1) using Firefox which is the default browser. Make sure the USB stick is empty or that you don't need the files on it as everything will be overwritten. Instructions here

https://www.lifewire.com/create-uefi-bootable-linux-mint-usb-2202084

5) Borrow a known good machine and test it on your connection.

6) Replace the router, although eir will probably do this if they are coming out again.

Have you spoken to any of your immediate neighbours to see if any of them are on 300Mb or 1Gb packages? Are they having any issues?

Strawberry HillBilly

Strawberry HillBilly wrote: »

Thanks I shall check this out tonight

ED E wrote: »

As tux says, 40 Mb tells us you weren't accidentally put on the lower profile. Even if your PC didnt come with Smartbyte it could have received it later via Dell Update and if you delete it Dell Update can put it back so keep an eye.

This is the first thing I'd check, after that confirm navis checks.

Update : checked both PC and laptop for Smartbyte - absent from both. I brought another cat6 cable home to test and still getting 143, 145 etc download hardwired with WiFi switched off on the router ...I am acutely aware this is a 1st world problem BTW

Andy From Sligo

Strawberry HillBilly wrote: »

Update : checked both PC and laptop for Smartbyte - absent from both. I brought another cat6 cable home to test and still getting 143, 145 etc download hardwired with WiFi switched off on the router ...I am acutely aware this is a 1st world problem BTW

something up with router or its settings?

what router is it?

EDIT: not Ideal but bypass router and stick the ethernet cable straight into ONT and set VLAN 10 in the network adaptor on your laptop ... just for testing purpose - make sure network device/hardware in laptop is 10/100/1000

babi-hrse

Any idea what the difference between a ug order and a p order as in why it gets called for and why is called such?
A ug order is pretty much all orders but when a p order comes through it's just phone line and can be changed to any exchange on the fly. Tends to pop up with 50/50 chance of being one exchange or another. If a job comes out as ug and the premises is connected to a different exchange it's failed off and sent back to provider to acquire a line interface from the correct exchange whereas a p order you just ring up open eir and some rapid fire keyboard clicking later sorted. Their not common but when they show up the cable path details are at best a guess a stab in the dark so it's pretty much open ended

ED E

babi-hrse wrote: »

Any idea what the difference between a ug order and a p order as in why it gets called for and why is called such?
A ug order is pretty much all orders but when a p order comes through it's just phone line and can be changed to any exchange on the fly. Tends to pop up with 50/50 chance of being one exchange or another. If a job comes out as ug and the premises is connected to a different exchange it's failed off and sent back to provider to acquire a line interface from the correct exchange whereas a p order you just ring up open eir and some rapid fire keyboard clicking later sorted. Their not common but when they show up the cable path details are at best a guess a stab in the dark so it's pretty much open ended

Do KNN accept APs or is that all left for OE FSTs?

Strawberry HillBilly wrote: »

Update : checked both PC and laptop for Smartbyte - absent from both. I brought another cat6 cable home to test and still getting 143, 145 etc download hardwired with WiFi switched off on the router ...I am acutely aware this is a 1st world problem BTW

Open Task Manager and watch your CPU usage (per core, not total) when testing. If any of the cores hits 100% when testing then drops back to normal after that's your problem (and often means your antivirus).

babi-hrse

ED E wrote: »

Do KNN accept APs or is that all left for OE FSTs?

I haven't got a clue what that means access points?

ED E

babi-hrse wrote: »

I haven't got a clue what that means access points?

* P Orders, sorry.

babi-hrse

ED E wrote: »

* P Orders, sorry.

They do they tend to be orders for businesses or places in the middle of nowhere. Maybe they're pre-qualification lines. Line gets built we update cable records of how that line got there then provider sees what they can put on it depending where and how far it is. Might see 1 in 50ug orders not that common

Marlow

babi-hrse wrote: »

They do they tend to be orders for businesses or places in the middle of nowhere. Maybe they're pre-qualification lines. Line gets built we update cable records of how that line got there then provider sees what they can put on it depending where and how far it is. Might see 1 in 50ug orders not that common

The whole process adding new paths is a manual task going through customer care. Can't be done in UG.

/M

babi-hrse

Marlow wrote: »

The whole process adding new paths is a manual task going through customer care. Can't be done in UG.

/M

We update paths as we build them usually their on the ball but the further out ya get the wilder off the mark they are.

DubInTheWest

The Open Eir guys were out in force up my way today. My 'road' the whole 2km of it has now been finished with the fibre cable and the dp's. They got it all done from start to finish in 1.5 days, really good going.
After they done my road, they went down a main road (2km +) with no turns at all. I know that have to connect it to the exchange but the way to the exchange is straight across the main road, not along it, unless they are doing more houses down that way and they are not on the fibrerollout.ie map.

Now that my area is complete with the cabling and the dps, is the next step going live ? I have an install date of the 7th of Feb, I didn't believe it could happen but now I have hope.

Andy From Sligo

DubInTheWest wrote: »

The Open Eir guys were out in force up my way today. My 'road' the whole 2km of it has now been finished with the fibre cable and the dp's. They got it all done from start to finish in 1.5 days, really good going.
After they done my road, they went down a main road (2km +) with no turns at all. I know that have to connect it to the exchange but the way to the exchange is straight across the main road, not along it, unless they are doing more houses down that way and they are not on the fibrerollout.ie map.

Now that my area is complete with the cabling and the dps, is the next step going live ? I have an install date of the 7th of Feb, I didn't believe it could happen but now I have hope.

our area was all completed last summer .... and still not live - but i just think we are a special case and not the norm. I hope you get it on the 7th tho

FastFullBack

Eir are running fibre close to my parents house in rural West cork. Unfortunately they are stopping at a cross about 700 meters from their house.
Is there any chance they would run the cable over telephone poles for the last 700 meters?

tuxy

FastFullBack wrote: »

Eir are running fibre close to my parents house in rural West cork. Unfortunately they are stopping at a cross about 700 meters from their house.
Is there any chance they would run the cable over telephone poles for the last 700 meters?

No chance unfortunately, even if the distance was shorter still not a hope

DubInTheWest

Back in one of my previous posts going back last week or so, I asked about a permission issue regarding a farmers field and the pole that was marked for the dp. Well I was out today, and I noticed they never put the dp on that pole, the went a bit further up. Also, right next to my neighbours there was a pole with the spool of wire for the dp, they changed their mind on that one too and moved it out onto our main road. Seems they made a few small alterations to their original plans. Sunday and still Open Eir vans going up and down the general area, they are hard at it.

Andy From Sligo

DubInTheWest wrote: »

Back in one of my previous posts going back last week or so, I asked about a permission issue regarding a farmers field and the pole that was marked for the dp. Well I was out today, and I noticed they never put the dp on that pole, the went a bit further up. Also, right next to my neighbours there was a pole with the spool of wire for the dp, they changed their mind on that one too and moved it out onto our main road. Seems they made a few small alterations to their original plans. Sunday and still Open Eir vans going up and down the general area, they are hard at it.

Sundays - now if you would have asked me i would have said that that was double time and why wouldnt they do this kind of stuff on the weekdays ... they must either need the money/overtime or be running behind schedule?

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Sundays - now if you would have asked me i would have said that that was double time and why wouldnt they do this kind of stuff on the weekdays ... they must either need the money/overtime or be running behind schedule?

They are way behind schedule. This has to be finished by the end of June otherwise they will be liable for fines according to the contract they signed.

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Sundays - now if you would have asked me i would have said that that was double time and why wouldnt they do this kind of stuff on the weekdays ... they must either need the money/overtime or be running behind schedule?

Andy .. they are WAY behind schedule. They were supposed to have finished the entire 300k end December 2018.

And while they have an extension to mid this year, they still have to complete over 15% of the entire rollout. More like 30% actually.

/M

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

Andy .. they are WAY behind schedule. They were supposed to have finished the entire 300k end December 2018.

And while they have an extension to mid this year, they still have to complete over 15% of the entire rollout. More like 30% actually.

/M

I might be lucky and get ours up and working before June then if thats the case. - I have never seen them working around here in my area on Sundays though i dont think.

KOR101

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

They are way behind schedule. This has to be finished by the end of June otherwise they will be liable for fines according to the contract they signed.

I don't remember reading that they formally asked for the existing extension.

KOR101

Marlow wrote: »

Andy .. they are WAY behind schedule. They were supposed to have finished the entire 300k end December 2018.

And while they have an extension to mid this year, they still have to complete over 15% of the entire rollout. More like 30% actually.

/M

Aren't you the one that has been insisting that they were on track for June based on the figures you have access to.

Marlow

KOR101 wrote: »

I don't remember reading that they formally asked for the existing extension.

The extension was negotiated with the DCCAE and always provisioned for. They went to them some time in autumn, when it was clear they wouldn't meet the deadline for end year.

KOR101 wrote: »

Aren't you the one that has been insisting that they were on track for June based on the figures you have access to.

They were, when you assume 300k. But the current figures are a bit scewed, because they're actually enabling 330k .. So it's hard to know if they will.

Also .. they have not met their minimum target at least the last 2 quarters, if not going even further back.

We're at just over 260k premises at the moment including those waiting to be enabled in February. And then nearly 13k premises, that are listed as can't be ordered. 21k premises that are supposed to be listed available soon enough.

That's 295k on the map, of which 35-45k are urban. So missing 80k'ish premises on top of all that.

So before the end of June, they'll have to enable 100k premises. That's 20k every month. Getting tight now !! And while they're at that, they still have to sort their current build issues. There's plenty exchanges that are listed available, but can't be ordered, because they didn't get it finished in time for their own timeline.

And yes .. I was saying it should be possible to meet their target, if they kept up the build. But they haven't for many many weeks. When you only release 10k-20k premises at the start of the quarter and then top up with 1-1.5k premises per week, you don't reach the 40k target/quarter. Nevermind 60k in a quarter, which they need now to meet the deadline.

/M

KOR101

Marlow wrote: »

The extension was negotiated with the DCCAE and always provisioned for. They went to them some time in autumn, when it was clear they wouldn't meet the deadline for end year.

/M

Extensions were certainly provided for in the contract. When you say that Eir negotiated them with DCCAE is that your inside knowledge. I just don't ever remember seeing that in any written report.

tsue921i8wljb3

KOR101 wrote: »

Extensions were certainly provided for in the contract. When you say that Eir negotiated them with DCCAE is that your inside knowledge. I just don't ever remember seeing that in any written report.

The closest I saw was this from the Q1 update on 29th May 2018 on the DCCAE site

Data for Q1 2018 recently submitted by eir to the Department indicates that the company has passed 145,212 premises nationwide as part of its ongoing deployment. eir has signalled that there would be likely knock-on effects to the 2018 milestone targets due to the severe weather impacts of both storms Ophelia and Emma.

After that I think mid 2019 became the de facto completion date.

It's really not in either parties interest to highlight this too much. eir obviously won't want to pay fines but the Department and therefore the Government will come under criticism the longer it takes for this project to be completed.