Eir rural FTTH thread II

Pangea

oscarBravo wrote: »

It's an electronic switch-over. Why would there be hassle or installation?

I'm pretty sure the ONT solely works with Eir, I had my fibre canceled by Eir by mistake and they still had to send a man out to put in a new ONT and activate it (which isn't a big deal). If the Fibre line that comes from the pole through my attic doesn't have to be changed if switching then that would be great, which going by your reaction it doesn't have to.

oscarBravo

Pangea wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the ONT solely works with Eir...

This is categorically untrue. I'm aware of situations where the ONT has been changed unnecessarily, but I'm also aware of many more where it hasn't.

tuxy

There's still so much confusion over the separation of open eir and eir retail

fritzelly

tuxy wrote: »

There's still so much confusion over the separation of open eir and eir retail

Half the problem is people see the vans emblazoned with eir and don't notice the "open" bit.

babi-hrse

Image of a light meter

Andy From Sligo

tuxy wrote: »

There's still so much confusion over the separation of open eir and eir retail

well in fairness they shouldn't sound so similar

even if open eir changed their name to open eir networks (like ESB changed to ESB Networks - and the retail part Electric Ireland) it would have been less confusing to people I am sure.

Andy From Sligo

babi-hrse wrote: »

Image of a light meter

available on wish - 3 week wait

Andy From Sligo

turbbo wrote: »

Also baby monitors can interfere with wifi.

i have had cordless home phones play havoc before with wireless routers especially the older ones which had fixed channels and not auto select channel and the older routers always normally were set to channel 6

Andy From Sligo

DubInTheWest wrote: »

I got my first bill for the FTTH yesterday but like you the .pdf isn't available yet but it was very high so I rang up, they came to the conclusion that instead of paying 99 quid for the installation fee, I paid the full price of 150 so I had to ring the billing department. I was on hold for 40 mins and it just went dead. It was nearly 6pm so I left it. I tried to ring at 9am and 9.30 today and after listening to ****e talk it say they are closed.

I'm guessing it's not your first bill so who knows what the charges are but they are making mistakes with the bills, thats for sure.

I thought it was 99 + 29.99 connection for quite a few months now - mind you thats still 130eur ... maybe they put vat on top or something?

Andy From Sligo

fabo1thecross wrote: »

Have a bit longer to wait.
Please note, some further work is required before your installation can go ahead.
The current forecast date for completion of this work is 27/05/2019. Should this change we will be in contact with you.
Once completed, we will be in touch to arrange your installation appointment.
Apologies for the inconvenience caused.
The Vodafone Network Crew.

oooh get them - 'The Vodafone Network Crew' ! - is that the same as the open eir network crew who do the work on behalf of Vodafone gigabit FTTH ?

Gonzo

I see Vodafone Gigabit broadband is now available to me, the 6 month offer of 25 euros per month looks tempting, but the 99 installation fee I presume has to be paid, even if you already have FTTH active.

Andy From Sligo

Gonzo wrote: »

I see Vodafone Gigabit broadband is now available to me, the 6 month offer of 25 euros per month looks tempting, but the 99 installation fee I presume has to be paid, even if you already have FTTH active.

whats that 99 installation fee if all the ODP and ONT are all in place and all they got to do is switch something at the exchange?

wonder if they charge the 29.99erur connection fee also?

tuxy

What about the €170 fee that open eir now charge for a provider switch?
Install charge was €270 and a switch was €2.50
Now both install and switch are €170

It's up to each provider to decide how to pass the cost on to the customer.

cnocbui

My son has been working on something and after quite a bit of work has found he can't access an external computer that is at an IPv6 address. Does anyone know if this is an Eir not supporting IPv6 thing or something to do with the VLAN thing?

oscarBravo

cnocbui wrote: »

My son has been working on something and after quite a bit of work has found he can't access an external computer that is at an IPv6 address. Does anyone know if this is an Eir not supporting IPv6 thing or something to do with the VLAN thing?

Go to http://ip6.me/ - if you see an IPv6 address, you can access Internet resources at IPv6 addresses. If you see an IPv4 address, you can't.

tsue921i8wljb3

cnocbui wrote: »

My son has been working on something and after quite a bit of work has found he can't access an external computer that is at an IPv6 address. Does anyone know if this is an Eir not supporting IPv6 thing or something to do with the VLAN thing?

eir run a full dual stack network so you are provided with both public IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. It's nothing to do with VLANs.

You replaced the F2000 if I remember correctly? Perhaps the new router is not set up correctly to receive the IPv6 address.

cnocbui

Thank you both. It was a router thing. IPv6 and DHCP had to be enabled.

KOR101

I have a friend down the hill from me in Kerry who'se neighbour has just got connected to FTTH.

They have adjoining cottages. He wants to run cable from his neighbour's router to his house.

What is the greatest distance he can run a Cat6 cable without needing repeaters or the like?

Also, I have a spare Sky Hub, the latest version. Would that work as a router. If not, what router should he buy?

Johnboy1951

KOR101 wrote: »

I have a friend down the hill from me in Kerry who'se neighbour has just got connected to FTTH.

They have adjoining cottages. He wants to run cable from his neighbour's router to his house.

What is the greatest distance he can run a Cat6 cable without needing repeaters or the like?

Also, I have a spare Sky Hub, the latest version. Would that work as a router. If not, what router should he buy?

As has been posted before by several people, doing this without some isolation between the two connected devices has the potential to cause problems electrically.

The acceptable (from safety POV) solution is to use a wireless connection between the two premises.

Of course doing this is outside the TOS of most/all service providers.

ED E

Yeah, don't run copper between the two without safety.

1. Ideally use nanonstations or fibre with media converters (buy it pre terminated!)

2. If you can't do that you need an opto isolator to not create an electrical hazard. (~ 250USD for a gig one)

oscarBravo

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The acceptable (from safety POV) solution is to use a wireless connection between the two premises.

Or fibre.

Of course doing this is outside the TOS of most/all service providers.

It also opens the bill-payer to legal and other risks.

Andy From Sligo

KOR101 wrote: »

I have a friend down the hill from me in Kerry who'se neighbour has just got connected to FTTH.

They have adjoining cottages. He wants to run cable from his neighbour's router to his house.

What is the greatest distance he can run a Cat6 cable without needing repeaters or the like?

Also, I have a spare Sky Hub, the latest version. Would that work as a router. If not, what router should he buy?

ah blimey, I suppose ye could go OTT with anything - I am not an expert which is why I most probably shouldnt be giving advice ... so dont call this as advice then, call it my view if you like .

Now , how many times does Lightening strike?, how many times would lightening strike and actually take its path through a premises that has external insulation covered Cat 6 cable and not straight to ground through another building or metal ? - then calculate that with what is the chance of winning euro-millions

So if it is cat6 cable placed high up where no members of the public can touch it, and if you hear any thunder rumbling , pull out the ethernet cable out of routers both ends (think of the old days when you used to pull out your telephones and modems in a storm) what possibly could be a harm (or very, very remote chance)

Now, I cannot comment on if lightening does come down it and possible a minute chance of causing a fire in your house -maybe have more risk of putting a fake chinese mobile phone charger into a wall socket, charging up. phone or leaving it plugged in and it sparking and burning house down, jaysus I remember reading once that someone dropped a TV remote down back of sofa and the buttons pressed, the remote overheated, set alight to sofa and burnt the whole house down - so if you think like that you would not allow a remote control in the house!

And I cannot comment whether its legal or not, most probably not. and yes I shouldnt think ISP terms of service would object..... if you got found out


So KOR101 - I am going to answer your question and only your question and not dictate what you should and shouldnt be doing :

1.) I believe 100m cat 6 cable you can run (but do a quick search on this thread because it has been discussed in great length about the working length of cat 5 / 5e cat 6 cable.

2.) yes ethernet plugged into LAN1 of transmitting router (ie the one than has the Internet going through it, whether it be ADSL/VDSL/CABLE/ FTTH and then in the house/cottage with no Internet/FTTH stick that in a wireless modem with a WAN socket , stick it in that. a wireless Modem with a 1gb 802.11ac wireless capability (I am not sure whether you would have to enable Vlan ID on the external one, I wouldnt think so) or if you are not bothered about remote premises getting high speed a 802.11n wireless router will do (which should go up to 150mbps theoretically)

Should work , I have seen this done in the past when people have had ADSL and run some Ethernet cable to a garage or shed or outside office ... and never heard of any safety aspect of about people getting electrocuted / house burnt down in a storm .. and very unlikely i ever will. How many times do we have any bad lightening storms in Ireland now these days throughout the year now anyway? - there seemed to be worse storms years ago, when i was here in the 90's there used to be loads of lightening storms and was always knocking out the electrics in our area or blowing up old dial up modems or cordless phones etc ... havent seen them regular like that for years (global warming/changing weather patterns?)

Now, the only other thing is that your remote user , using your internet if they are doing dodgy things with Porn or terrorism or planning to murder someone or anything else dodgy because they will be 'leeching' off your Internet you may be drawn in as an accomplish or something because the Internet will be registered at your address, thats another thing to take into an account .

I most probably will get flamed for this post , because i have upset people on here before with my ideas of things and it gets them angry, but i just felt you asked a reasonable question and instead of being answered you were told "it had been discussed numerously before and go do a search through the thread' and the the warning about not doing it and how dangerous it would be to run copper from one premises to the other or without using isolating equipment. Which really did not answer the questions you asked.

oscarBravo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

...I am not an expert which is why I most probably shouldnt be giving advice ...

Correct.

Now , how many times does Lightening strike?, how many times would lightening strike and actually take its path through a premises that has external insulation covered Cat 6 cable and not straight to ground through another building or metal ?

This is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how lightning causes damage to electrical equipment.

When there's a lightning strike to ground, it creates a localised area of very high electrical charge at that point. Far away from that point, the electrical charge at the ground is zero (that's what "ground" means, in electrical terms), which means that there's a charge gradient from the point of the strike outwards.

Electricity flows from a region of high charge to ground, following - literally - the path of least resistance. If the copper link from you to your neighbour happens to align with a charge gradient, then current will flow along that link, and quite possibly a significant current, leading to the potential for explosion and fire.

Now, the above is a gross simplification, but it's based on experience in helping to design protection for hilltop sites that get directly hit by lightning several times a year.

In short: don't run a copper connection to your neighbour unless you understand how to do so safely, and probably not even then.

ED E

Now , how many times does Lightening strike?

Its not unheard of for one house to be hit thrice in a year. One house. Its more common than you'd guess.

Andy From Sligo

oscarBravo wrote: »

Correct.

This is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how lightning causes damage to electrical equipment.

When there's a lightning strike to ground, it creates a localised area of very high electrical charge at that point. Far away from that point, the electrical charge at the ground is zero (that's what "ground" means, in electrical terms), which means that there's a charge gradient from the point of the strike outwards.

Electricity flows from a region of high charge to ground, following - literally - the path of least resistance. If the copper link from you to your neighbour happens to align with a charge gradient, then current will flow along that link, and quite possibly a significant current, leading to the potential for explosion and fire.

Now, the above is a gross simplification, but it's based on experience in helping to design protection for hilltop sites that get directly hit by lightning several times a year.

In short: don't run a copper connection to your neighbour unless you understand how to do so safely, and probably not even then.

then (just as I said) dont class it as advice then, call it my view if you like, of the real world situation/scenario, and of 53years of living on earth and over 20years of fixing computers and never hearing of problems where lightening struck a cable between two premises and caused damaged (apart from telephone POTS cable and even in that case the lightning may have entered the infrastructure by un-insulated telephone copper cable strung from wooden post to wooden post)

When i was growing up in the 70's we lived on an estate which we called 'piped TV' it was essentially a rubber/plastic cable with multiple cores in it feeding TV and radio to our area , was there because the council would not allow UHF television aerials on the roof of the house - the 2 storey houses on the estate (some where semi-detached, some where detached) had this TV 'cable' (from a company called Reddifusion) strung from house to house, and run under the roof eaves to a box inside the house with a Selector on the wall by the window. Never ever heard of lightening ever getting to them.

later on we moved to another area , and it had a Metal UHF TV aerial on the chimney. One summers day went out and whilst out one of the worst electrical storms I have ever seen , and I didnt pull the aerial plug out of the back of the TV set - got back home and TV was dead . It was a rental TV set, repair man came out , took the back off and it was blown to bits on the circuit board.

Over the years I have been out replacing dial up modems where they have been blown to bits , and replaced computers where the lightning has gone past the modem and blown up the mainboard of the computer, but again as I say, this was in rural areas and the majority of telephone lines were just copper and not insulated drawn pole to pole and not buried underground

So, (my view) I am not saying that lightning would never struck a exterior grade insulated Cat 6 cable but I think it very highly unlikely - there be other things one may worry about how a house could burn down rather than lightning taking a path down a cat 6 and catching fire to the house.

but I am not an expert - its just my opinion and what I think.

Andy From Sligo

ED E wrote: »

Its not unheard of for one house to be hit thrice in a year. One house. Its more common than you'd guess.

unlucky - I would put a lightning conductor on it on its highest point if that was the case after the second time it got hit, it can then find its way to the shortest path the earth going down that straight into the ground ...

fritzelly

You realise you have just contradicted yourself!

oscarBravo

I don't know why you're wittering on about insulation, Andy. Do you think half a millimetre of PVC has any relevance whatsoever in the context of a 300,000V lighting strike? Do you understand that lightning is a high-frequency alternating current phenomenon, and as such induces current in anything metal within range, whether it's insulated or not?

But, you're right: it's not advice, it's just your opinion. Anyone reading can decide whether to run a metallic conductor across open ground based on your personal lack of experience of lightning "hitting" things, or my (and others') experience of replacing electronic equipment damaged by lightning that didn't "hit" anything except the ground nearby.

Andy From Sligo

fritzelly wrote: »

You realise you have just contradicted yourself!

educate me

- where?

Andy From Sligo

oscarBravo wrote: »

I don't know why you're wittering on about insulation, Andy. Do you think half a millimetre of PVC has any relevance whatsoever in the context of a 300,000V lighting strike? Do you understand that lightning is a high-frequency alternating current phenomenon, and as such induces current in anything metal within range, whether it's insulated or not?

But, you're right: it's not advice, it's just your opinion. Anyone reading can decide whether to run a metallic conductor across open ground based on your personal lack of experience of lightning "hitting" things, or my (and others') experience of replacing electronic equipment damaged by lightning that didn't "hit" anything except the ground nearby.

yes your right of course - but if a lightning fork chose to get its fastest route to ground and there were some pvc covered cable next to a exposed metal or copper cable where would the lightning choose to strike first?