Eir rural FTTH thread II

DrPhilG

OK, excuse my ignorance folks. I was under the impression that the cable was fairly flexible. No idea where I got that notion, but anyway...

This was the track I had cut for the duct. I was just going to use 90 degree plumbing joints to turn left at the wall and then up alongside the waste pipe. That of course was based on me not knowing what the hell I was doing and itobviously won't work as it is not only a tight right angle, it's 2 in quick succession.



That's out, but I think if I cut a bit more along that angle as marked with the orange line, then I can still just bend the duct slightly to go slight left and then up on a wide turn? Beats the crap out of sharp left and sharp up.

Johnboy1951

I would be inclined to cut the path to the edge to make the bend in the duct the least possible.
Where it approaches the wall a hockey like bend piece could be used I think, as the size of the existing down pipe should shield the bend where it comes up out of the path.

do whatever you can to reduce circumferences of bends ...... remember it is as easy to replace twice the amount of concrete path as the amount you have already cut out.

Another option would be to keep it all open/uncovered until after the fibre is run, so that if there is a problem you can pull joints and guide the cable by hand.

DrPhilG

Yeah thanks johnboy, I've just come to that conclusion myself after a bit of shoving ducting around.

The intention was to keep the concrete cutting as minimal as possible tokeep my wife from murdering me. But it's just not going to work. The duct can't veer left and then up, if I try it just kinks.

Going to have to take this chunk out.


Then as you say the angle as it goes vertical will be no more obtrusive than the waste pipe.

Johnboy1951

DrPhilG wrote: »

Yeah thanks johnboy, I've just come to that conclusion myself after a bit of shoving ducting around.

The intention was to keep the concrete cutting as minimal as possible tokeep my wife from murdering me. But it's just not going to work. The duct can't veer left and then up, if I try it just kinks.

Going to have to take this chunk out.

Then as you say the angle as it goes vertical will be no more obtrusive than the waste pipe.

Ah, I now see you did not intend any joints at all ..... in that case what you propose should work well .... but I suggest one further consideration ..... allow sufficient 'slack' in the duct so that when replacing the path you can bend the duct to the un-kinked max (heating with heat gun or hair dryer will assist) and thus keep its exit point as close to the wall as possible.
This of course after the fibre cable has been inserted, or at minimum a good pull rope put in place to aid pulling in the cable.

I would not cover the duct until after the cable has gone through ...... you never know what assistance might be provided by manually shaking the duct if the cable got a bit stuck during insertion

.

cnocbui

Yeah, I didn't bury my duct until well after it was all up and running.

Roen

Marlow wrote: »

If I recall correctly, DD-WRT doesn't support Vlan tagging on all routers. The underlying platform (the router) has to support it hardware wise.

But good so have the steps outlined. TP-Link is equally awkward with their firmware. And OpenWRT ... well, that's awkward full stop.

/M

Yes, exactly. The Broadcom based Asus ones must as that's what mine is based on. Some older how tos had steps where you had to drop to the cli and use some nvram commands.
There's Atheros based Asus ones too that you can't do vlan tagging on (I think).

DrPhilG

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Ah, I now see you did not intend any joints at all ..... in that case what you propose should work well .... but I suggest one further consideration ..... allow sufficient 'slack' in the duct so that when replacing the path you can bend the duct to the un-kinked max (heating with heat gun or hair dryer will assist) and thus keep its exit point as close to the wall as possible.
This of course after the fibre cable has been inserted, or at minimum a good pull rope put in place to aid pulling in the cable.

I would not cover the duct until after the cable has gone through ...... you never know what assistance might be provided by manually shaking the duct if the cable got a bit stuck during insertion

.

No, won't be burying anything until its all over.

The duct isn't ending at the wall by the way. It's aiming for a highly illegal attic entrance. The guy who came to install previously said (although they're not supposed to) that he would either take an overhead line to the gable end and into the attic, or via duct into the attic if I laid the way.

DrPhilG

Thanks all for the advice and info.

I'd have been well up the creek if I had laid nice straight duct lines with wee PVC right angle pipe joints connecting it all.

cnocbui

DrPhilG wrote: »

No, won't be burying anything until its all over.

The duct isn't ending at the wall by the way. It's aiming for a highly illegal attic entrance. The guy who came to install previously said (although they're not supposed to) that he would either take an overhead line to the gable end and into the attic, or via duct into the attic if I laid the way.

I got an attic install by asking if the optical connector was small enough for me to pull it back up the duct in the wall to the Eir phone socket so I could relocate everything to the attic after he'd gone.

I also volunteered to pull the cable in the attic - which I did - and already had the attic set up with lighting and power sockets. I even had a power board. Basically I made the attic option easier than any other.

DrPhilG

cnocbui wrote: »

I got an attic install by asking if the optical connector was small enough for me to pull it back up the duct in the wall to the Eir phone socket so I could relocate everything to the attic after he'd gone.

I also volunteered to pull the cable in the attic - which I did - and already had the attic set up with lighting and power sockets. I even had a power board. Basically I made the attic option easier than any other.

Likewise, I'll have ducting all the way through.

What do I need for it in the attic, a double socket and a board to mount the system on?

Altreab2

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Hi, funny you should say that, the van was parked at the spot where the fibre ends going by the map. But I'm now noticing my neighbours have access to FTTH but not my house. So I wonder is it just a mistake in the map that will eventually get updated. If not I'm going to bite the bullet and go with the VDSL service, but as I'm 700 meters from the exchange I would be getting well under 50mbps at a guess.

I am in similar situation. End of line marked at neighbours house about 250 metres away. I could the only house on the road not getting FTTH if they stop there. Could it be a a mistake or will i be left to the mercy of the NB rollout? What are the chances of getting it extended if i contact OperAir? im 4KM from the exchange.

cnocbui

DrPhilG wrote: »

Likewise, I'll have ducting all the way through.

What do I need for it in the attic, a double socket and a board to mount the system on?

Two sockets at a minimum. Mine is secured to a cross beam, so no need for a board. I needed a power board as I have four power bricks for two routers, the ONT and the cordless phone base station. I would also suggest a floodlight to provide sufficient light to work and sheet chipboard to provide secure footing. No need for ducting inside the attic if the attic space is accessible, I would say.

tsue921i8wljb3

Altreab2 wrote: »

I am in similar situation. End of line marked at neighbours house about 250 metres away. I could the only house on the road not getting FTTH if they stop there. Could it be a a mistake or will i be left to the mercy of the NB rollout? What are the chances of getting it extended if i contact OperAir? im 4KM from the exchange.

I assume the area is not live yet? If so you'll have to hope you will be included in the list of Eircodes when the area goes live. At 250m though it might be touch and go whether you'll be passed. If you're not included I don't think you have much chance of getting added.

DrPhilG

cnocbui wrote: »

Two sockets at a minimum. Mine is secured to a cross beam, so no need for a board. I needed a power board as I have four power bricks for two routers, the ONT and the cordless phone base station. I would also suggest a floodlight to provide sufficient light to work and sheet chipboard to provide secure footing. No need for ducting inside the attic if the attic space is accessible, I would say.

It's a bungalow, roofspace already floored with chipboard. I'm planning to mount my CCTV recorder up there too so I'll get my friend who is a spark to load me up with some new sockets. I'm laying a length of chipboard along the beams for the cctv anyway so they can install on that.

Altreab2

Airwire: MartinL wrote: »

You are in a VDSL designated (green shaded area) on the fibrerollout.ie map, but there is something very odd going on around that area, because random houses inside the green shaded area have been FTTH enabled.

Either way ... everything is live there. So your issue is, that your premise is not even indexed correctly in OpenEIRs database. The reason our checker knows you may be able to get VDSL is that we know your distance to the cabinet. As you said: it may not be great though given the distance.

Hello Martin. Could you check what is happening at my eircode? The local exchange is been upgraded and the fibre line stops 250 metres away from me at neighbours house My eircode showing as not been available at the moment Anyone i could talk to to get it the extra few metres to me? :0

Baoithin66

Hi my house is about 25m away from a pole to the front of the house but the pole is on the opposite side of the road. To the rear it is just under 50m from a pole across a field but it does not have to cross a road. it is a 2 storey house. Would they connect over ground to the attic?

babi-hrse

DrPhilG wrote: »

OK, excuse my ignorance folks. I was under the impression that the cable was fairly flexible. No idea where I got that notion, but anyway...

This was the track I had cut for the duct. I was just going to use 90 degree plumbing joints to turn left at the wall and then up alongside the waste pipe. That of course was based on me not knowing what the hell I was doing and itobviously won't work as it is not only a tight right angle, it's 2 in quick succession.



That's out, but I think if I cut a bit more along that angle as marked with the orange line, then I can still just bend the duct slightly to go slight left and then up on a wide turn? Beats the crap out of sharp left and sharp up.

That will work fine just leave it open because it will drag the cable is flexible
Once they can get access to it you should have no issues. Cover it up after the install

tsue921i8wljb3

Baoithin66 wrote: »

Hi my house is about 25m away from a pole to the front of the house but the pole is on the opposite side of the road. To the rear it is just under 50m from a pole across a field but it does not have to cross a road. it is a 2 storey house. Would they connect over ground to the attic?

Do you have a copper phone line? If so what route does the cable take?

Baoithin66

I have an existing line which seems to have been ran underground to the house but I cannot see any duct in the house. I am pretty sure it was buried at sub floor level with just the cable being ran up the wall to the socket.

tsue921i8wljb3

Baoithin66 wrote: »

I have an existing line which seems to have been ran underground to the house but I cannot see any duct in the house. I am pretty sure it was buried at sub floor level with just the cable being ran up the wall to the socket.

Are you sure the pole at the rear is even an eir pole? It could well be an ESB pole. I don't see why cable crossing a road would be a problem once there is sufficient clearance for high vehicles. Installers are not meant to go into attics but again it depends on who you get and what preparation you've done (clear a route for cable, maybe enter the attic yourself and pull cable to desired location).

The first installer visit is treated as a survey so he will be able to inform you of your options.

Baoithin66

Yep definitely an Eir pole. I am not worried about having the modem in the attic and would happily run the cable down myself to the ground floor.

tsue921i8wljb3

Baoithin66 wrote: »

Yep definitely an Eir pole. I am not worried about having the modem in the attic and would happily run the cable down myself to the ground floor.

Where the distribution point (box on the pole) that you will be connected to is located will dictate the route the cable will take.

DrPhilG

And after all that planning and debate about how to send the duct up the wall to the attic...

"She who must be obeyed" has gone off the idea of ducting up the wall. I tend to agree mind you, it would be a bit ugly.

So we will just take the line through at ground level into the bedroom. I'll not worry about turning left or up, just run the duct to the side of the house and then presumably the installer will just drill straight in and fit the socket on the inside wall?

That leads me to 2 other questions.

1 - am I right in thinking that the installer will fit 2 things. A terminal for the fibre and then the router beside it? Is there any reason I can't just have him install the terminal inside the wall there, and then I can run an ethernet cable up inside the internal ducting from a nearby TV ariel socket and install the router in the attic myself? I'd prefer to have it there. It's a long bungalow and centrally located is a better place for the router. Plus I have ethernet cables running everywhere from there for things like xbox and sky etc.

2 - what's the chances that the installer would drill a slightly larger hole than needed? I want to run a few network cables externally for cctv. Do they feed a duct through when they drill or just slide the cable through?

tsue921i8wljb3

DrPhilG wrote: »

And after all that planning and debate about how to send the duct up the wall to the attic...

"She who must be obeyed" has gone off the idea of ducting up the wall. I tend to agree mind you, it would be a bit ugly.

So we will just take the line through at ground level into the bedroom. I'll not worry about turning left or up, just run the duct to the side of the house and then presumably the installer will just drill straight in and fit the socket on the inside wall?

That leads me to 2 other questions.

1 - am I right in thinking that the installer will fit 2 things. A terminal for the fibre and then the router beside it? Is there any reason I can't just have him install the terminal inside the wall there, and then I can run an ethernet cable up inside the internal ducting from a nearby TV ariel socket and install the router in the attic myself? I'd prefer to have it there. It's a long bungalow and centrally located is a better place for the router. Plus I have ethernet cables running everywhere from there for things like xbox and sky etc.

2 - what's the chances that the installer would drill a slightly larger hole than needed? I want to run a few network cables externally for cctv. Do they feed a duct through when they drill or just slide the cable through?

1)

You can have the router up to 100m away from the ONT.

2) I'm sure he could make the hole slightly bigger. I think they use a 10mm bit. If you want something much bigger you might need to buy a larger SDS bit as the installer may not have bigger than 10mm. babi-hrse should be able to clarify. Cable goes through the hole without any ducting AFAIK.

Johnboy1951

"She who must be obeyed" has gone off the idea of ducting up the wall. I tend to agree mind you, it would be a bit ugly.

Ducting can be painted the same as the wall or down pipe which to me would be less noticeable and hassle than having wires hanging on a wall in the bedroom.

The fibre odp to ont is easily damaged -- see pic above.

DrPhilG

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Ducting can be painted the same as the wall or down pipe which to me would be less noticeable and hassle than having wires hanging on a wall in the bedroom.

The ONT will be on the wall behind a bedside locker or the bed so it should be well hidden.

DrPhilG

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

1)

You can have the router up to 100m away from the ONT.

2) I'm sure he could make the hole slightly bigger. I think they use a 10mm bit. If you want something much bigger you might need to buy a larger SDS bit as the installer may not have bigger than 10mm. babi-hrse should be able to clarify. Cable goes through the hole without any ducting AFAIK.

Gotcha. So as its KN doing the install, do they do anything with the router at all or just leave you with those 2 boxes and then I set up the router myself?

This old unused phone socket is behind my beside locker near where the install would take place so I would be able to run the ethernet cable up inside the wall to the attic from there and set up the router myself.

tsue921i8wljb3

DrPhilG wrote: »

Gotcha. So as its KN doing the install, do they do anything with the router at all or just leave you with those 2 boxes and then I set up the router myself?

This old unused phone socket is behind my beside locker near where the install would take place so I would be able to run the ethernet cable up inside the wall to the attic from there and set up the router myself.

With eir retail connections KN bring the router and he'll plug it into the ONT to verify it's working. You're going with Pure I believe and I don't know if KN carry their routers or whether Pure will post it to you. Either way it's easy to unplug the Ethernet from the ONT and run your longer cable to the attic.

babi-hrse

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

With eir retail connections KN bring the router and he'll plug it into the ONT to verify it's working. You're going with Pure I believe and I don't know if KN carry their routers or whether Pure will post it to you. Either way it's easy to unplug the Ethernet from the ONT and run your longer cable to the attic.

They only bring for eir and Vodafone the modem everything else is just a light reading and ensure port up for ont. 10mm max size SDS bit we carry
If you have a socket and patch point nearby it would be best to bring ont to that location then you can blug into patch point and reroute where modem goes.
Only for eir do they run Ethernet cables but they won't drill through ceilings as who knows what you'll hit.

DrPhilG

I'm with Pure, and yeah they're posting out the gear.

I'll just let KN install behind the bed and get everything running there, and I'll re-route to the attic afterwards.

Won't be any drilling into the roof. That phone socket has a conduit in the wall to take the phone line up (no longer in use) so I'll put a brush faceplate on instead and pull the ethernet cable up through to the attic.

Living in a bungalow has its benefits. So easy to use those lines. I have a hdmi splitter coming off the sky box into the attic and hdmi cables going down into the bedrooms from that. Using those old phone line or TV ariel lines every time.