Eir rural FTTH thread II

Marlow

helimachoptor wrote: »

Sorry missed his post, I wouldnt put too much weight on that statement.

Well, until you can find a clear recent statement, that they are going to do FTTH on OpenEIR, the fact is, that they won't.

I've seen BTs wholesale pricing for OpenEIR FTTH and it's not pretty.

/M

digiman

Marlow wrote: »

helimachoptor wrote: »

Sorry missed his post, I wouldnt put too much weight on that statement.

Well, until you can find a clear recent statement, that they are going to do FTTH on OpenEIR, the fact is, that they won't.

I've seen BTs wholesale pricing for OpenEIR FTTH and it's not pretty.

/M

You can be sure the price they are offering Sky will be much lower than what they are offering a small player.

Sky will be selling opener FTTH by end of this year. Obviously can't be any clearer than that at this stage nd no I don't have a source I can put on a public forum to confirm that for obvious reasons.

Marlow

digiman wrote: »

You can be sure the price they are offering Sky will be much lower than what they are offering a small player.

The bottom line is the regulated price. That's what every other provider pays, no matter how small or large.

BT is there to make money. They won't be selling connections at a loss.

/M

digiman

Marlow wrote: »

digiman wrote: »

You can be sure the price they are offering Sky will be much lower than what they are offering a small player.

The bottom line is the regulated price. That's what every other provider pays, no matter how small or large.

BT is there to make money. They won't be selling connections at a loss.

/M

Can you clarify what is the bottom line?

Since when do BT have regulated pricing?

Marlow

digiman wrote: »

Can you clarify what is the bottom line?

Since when do BT have regulated pricing?

BT have no FTTH rollout of their own in the Republic of Ireland, that they could price individually.

OpenEIR have regulated pricing. This is the pricing that BT, like any other operator has to buy the last mile connection from OpenEIR for. That pricing is not variable.

BT then sells said OpenEIR FTTH connection on to their customers (like Sky).

And that's why Sky (like Vodafone) are so reluctant. OpenEIRs pricing makes it unviable for them. The cost of the broadband eats too much into their broadcast revenue. Margins are too low.

BT is not going to hand said OpenEIR FTTH connection to the customer without earning a markup of some form or shape. They may combine it with backhaul etc., but they certainly won't go, but the connection from OpenEIR and then sell it to Sky at half price.

It's simple economics.

The reason Sky uses BT, is because they don't have their own network infrastructure. They don't even have their own IP address (all BskyB IP address in Ireland belong to BT and are sub-allocated).

/M

digiman

Marlow wrote: »

digiman wrote: »

Can you clarify what is the bottom line?

Since when do BT have regulated pricing?

BT have no FTTH rollout of their own in the Republic of Ireland, that they could price individually.

OpenEIR have regulated pricing. This is the pricing that BT, like any other operator has to buy the last mile connection from OpenEIR for. That pricing is not variable.

BT then sells said OpenEIR FTTH connection on to their customers (like Sky).

And that's why Sky (like Vodafone) are so reluctant. OpenEIRs pricing makes it unviable for them. The cost of the broadband eats too much into their broadcast revenue. Margins are too low.

BT is not going to hand said OpenEIR FTTH connection to the customer without earning a markup of some form or shape. They may combine it with backhaul etc., but they certainly won't go, but the connection from OpenEIR and then sell it to Sky at half price.

It's simple economics.

The reason Sky uses BT, is because they don't have their own network infrastructure. They don't even have their own IP address (all BskyB IP address in Ireland belong to BT and are sub-allocated).

/M

OK, I know all the above.

So as I said before BTs price won't be the same to all customers. Obviously they can sell 10K openeir connections much cheaper per customer than they will sell 10. The cost of the openeir part will be the same of course as that is a regulated product but the discount will come on the other parts of the service such as the backhauling of the traffic from the eir regions to Dublin. That's basically BTs main role for Sky, there are other parts of course but not as large.

Marlow

digiman wrote: »

OK, I know all the above.

So as I said before BTs price won't be the same to all customers. Obviously they can sell 10K openeir connections much cheaper per customer than they will sell 10. The cost of the openeir part will be the same of course as that is a regulated product but the discount will come on the other parts of the service such as the backhauling of the traffic from the eir regions to Dublin. That's basically BTs main role for Sky, there are other parts of course but not as large.

Correct.

So the base pricing for a OpenEIR FTTH connection means, it costs 202.50 EUR+Vat more to install than a SIRO connection. That's before BTs markup.

It also means, that an OpenEIR 150 Mbit/s connection costs 2.20+vat/month more than a SIRO 150 Mbit/s. Before BTs markup. Nevermind the difference in Gigabit pricing.

Backhaul adds on top of that and can be assumed, it's going to cost Sky the same, no matter if it's SIRO or OpenEIR, as BT provides that directly to them.

Or bottom line: on a 150 Mbit/s OpenEIR connection vs a 150 Mbit/s SIRO, they have to make good for 23.46 EUR/month difference incl. VAT over 12 months if they want to offer free installation. There's an additional cost, where OpenEIR charges monthly for the EIL, while a SIRO ICL has no monthly cost. So that adds on to it additionally.

/M

Grab All Association

Eir called to confirm my installation. It’s on the day it goes live 1000mb package. 9th (next Wednesday) I can’t wait.

I’ve kept my ADSL/PTSN on with Vodafone and I’ll have to keep this on for another month to notify people of my new number change (hospitals etc) I didn’t want to lose my broadband in the meantime. I don’t mind losing the ptsn type phone service.

Is it true that KN/Eir are apparently not allowed to remove this phone line later on when give notice to Vodafone? Just seems a waste of copper tbh.

Marlow

Grab All Association wrote: »

Is it true that KN/Eir are apparently not allowed to remove this phone line later on when give notice to Vodafone? Just seems a waste of copper tbh.

EU legislation. If the copper is in place, OpenEIR have to leave it in place, in case that another operator wants to utilize it.

/M

Grab All Association

I wouldn’t care about it just it’s an old house circa 1979/80 no ducting. Cable is hooked on to the wall just under the facia. The fibre is getting installed on another side of the property I’m hoping. The phone socket was always in an awkward spot and regularly replaced because of dampness.

ED E

After porting your number out you could remove it yourself, nobody would ever even notice. Just tie it neatly near the boundary.

AidenL

ED E wrote: »

After porting your number out you could remove it yourself, nobody would ever even notice. Just tie it neatly near the boundary.

How about using the copper as a pull cord to pull the fibre through an existing duct?

So you can have an ordinary landline number via fibre, not VOIP, just a normal number? is that possible?

fritzelly

AidenL wrote: »

How about using the copper as a pull cord to pull the fibre through an existing duct?

So you can have an ordinary landline number via fibre, not VOIP, just a normal number? is that possible?

The techs wont do that and the LL over fibre is called VOBB

AidenL

Im seeing some white with a blue stripe pipes beside the black Air Fibre Optic 20/16 pipes on our road?

Whats the extra white and blue one for?

AidenL

fritzelly wrote: »

The techs wont do that and the LL over fibre is called VOBB

Understand, but could I do it myself on the day? Or will they not even disconnect the copper from the pole end I guess?

tsue921i8wljb3

AidenL wrote: »

Im seeing some white with a blue stripe pipes beside the black Air Fibre Optic 20/16 pipes on our road?

Whats the extra white and blue one for?

That is the white ducting that you were asking about the other day. Fibre is blown through it.

AidenL

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

That is the white ducting that you were asking about the other day. Fibre is blown through it.

So what purpose does the other 20/16 black pipe they put in also at the same time serve?

tsue921i8wljb3

AidenL wrote: »

So what purpose does the other 20/16 black pipe they put in also at the same time serve?

The 20/16 is generally used for short runs underground between poles for example where the line goes under ESB lines. They usually use rods to pull the fibre through the 20/16 while the other ducting is used for air blowing over longer distances.

Without knowing the original route taken by the copper it is hard to know what route the fibre will take. It is possible that they will blow the "main" fibre cable through the ducting on the right of the road as you leave the town then go overhead back towards the town to feed individual houses.

fritzelly

AidenL wrote: »

Understand, but could I do it myself on the day? Or will they not even disconnect the copper from the pole end I guess?

They don't touch the copper except to disconnect it from the port

AidenL

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

The 20/16 is generally used for short runs underground between poles for example where the line goes under ESB lines. They usually use rods to pull the fibre through the 20/16 while the other ducting is used for air blowing over longer distances.

Without knowing the original route taken by the copper it is hard to know what route the fibre will take. It is possible that they will blow the "main" fibre cable through the ducting on the right of the road as you leave the town then go overhead back towards the town to feed individual houses.

And they were using orange duct in some locations too yesterday - seemed to be from manhole to manhole.

MBSnr

AidenL wrote: »

And they were using orange duct in some locations too yesterday - seemed to be from manhole to manhole.

Yes orange in my area as well for exact same thing.

fritzelly

In case anyone is interested - there is a big backlog of licences required at the moment for any kind of civils work not expected to clear til the summer is over (I say Summer, what I mean is near August/September)

tsue921i8wljb3

fritzelly wrote: »

In case anyone is interested - there is a big backlog of licences required at the moment for any kind of civils work not expected to clear til the summer is over (I say Summer, what I mean is near August/September)

Will they even get the 300000 finished in 2019?

fritzelly

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

Will they even get the 300000 finished in 2019?

I guess this is also a lot of preparatory work - once done then that's a bunch of houses ready. Though all the new estates that are going FTTH and no copper make up a big part of those numbers.

Johnboy1951

AidenL wrote: »

And they were using orange duct in some locations too yesterday - seemed to be from manhole to manhole.

MBSnr wrote: »

Yes orange in my area as well for exact same thing.

Noticed same around here also.
In addition they have replaced one pole and have run the orange duct to 'in-fill' areas that are not in the 300K roll out.
It will be interesting to see if those 'in-fill' premises are offered FTTH at the same time as the rest go live.
This is all in preparation for year end estimated live FTTH.
Coils of fibre duct are on the poles where relevant, or in manholes apparently, where they exist.

fritzelly

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if those 'in-fill' premises are offered FTTH at the same time as the rest go live.

A lot of those in-fill premises are not surprisingly in between where eir have FTTH well served
I think they think the NBP is dead in the water and they will then just go in for the most profitable areas - which is perfectly allowed even now where it is justifiable as a business without government support

KOR101

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

Will they even get the 300000 finished in 2019?

Certainly looking at the last quarterly numbers you would think they could be a year behind.

Anecdotally, on my patch in Kerry on the Sneem road, it's astonishing to watch how fast they are moving. You really wouldn't question their determination. At Easter, I was cycling from Allihies to Castletownbeare. In places, you could probably go a kilometer without a house, and all the fibre infrastructure is in place. None of that was there last year ago. This is amazing stuff.

Hopefully, it was just the bad weather!!!

Johnboy1951

fritzelly wrote: »

A lot of those in-fill premises are not surprisingly in between where eir have FTTH well served

It appears, at least in the location I saw, that they are making provision to supply the 'in-fill' premises when rolling out fibre to the premises within the '300k'.
This is in contrast to what they did while still in the tendering process for the NBP.
That is how it looked to me anyway.

I think they think the NBP is dead in the water and they will then just go in for the most profitable areas - which is perfectly allowed even now where it is justifiable as a business without government support

AidenL

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It appears, at least in the location I saw, that they are making provision to supply the 'in-fill' premises when rolling out fibre to the premises within the '300k'.
This is in contrast to what they did while still in the tendering process for the NBP.
That is how it looked to me anyway.

Makes sense, they would have received a subsidy for connecting infill under the NBP.

Now they are passing them, they aren’t going to be availing of a subsidy,so may as well connect them, and get connection fees and monthlies instead?

Tigerandahalf

Sorry if this has been asked already.
What is the story with premises currently receiving fttc in towns.

Are we likely to see eir just chasing these now that they are out of the NBP? I presume these would be profitable to service for eir/Virgin etc.

Getting serviced by Virgin could be a bad thing as you may not be able to get iptv services offered by other providers, e.g. eir sports.

Thanks