Eir rural FTTH thread II

babi-hrse

manshay wrote: »

I had a no light install on 15 May, a few days later the PON started flashing green.
KN were booked to come out again on 4th June but cancelled cause openeir told them the local infrastructure wasn't working.(which doesn't make sense according to openeir troubleshooting document)
Airwire have escalated ticket to the maximum level 4 request with openeir, they have no feedback from openeir on the problem. Airwire are great from a customer service point of view, they actually answer the phone, but they are getting nowhere with openeir.

I was private messaging another person from this thread who had a long term in light install problem. He cancelled with Airwire and booked an install with another company which cleared the logjam.

I cannot go to Comreg because there is no contract in place until I actually receive a service, even if for one minute. I'm stuck in a catch 22 situation.

I'm extremely frustrated as it appears the fix is easy and quick.

Is there something I am missing? It seems that openeir are treating a small ISP, Airwire, badly, as well as me! Is there a nefarious reason for this or are they just incompetent?
All advice greatly received.

Try contact kn and see if they have a pending order for a electronic enablement explain that you had an install on such a date and there was no light (from what I understand) your now getting light but nobody has been out to activate your gpon. Dunno if they could but they may be able to activate it on a phone call if you have the long serial number on your gpon. That's if they have your order.
Sounds like the light issue was resolved but an oversight didn't activate your gpon when it was resolved. Unless it's actually something wrong with the backbone from exchange to the rest of the world and not the light that's at fault.

Andy From Sligo

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

WAN via LAN1 according to this.

https://en.avm.de/products/fritzbox/fritzbox-7530/technical-data/

Did Digiweb not send some instructions?

Thank you Dominique Loud Waistband - I have found a leaflet in there that says connect from ONT to LAN 1 socket - cheers

Confusion was that on their website they have instructions for setting up a Fritz!Box 4040 so thats the one I thought i was getting for FTTH connection

banie01

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

WAN via LAN1 according to this.

https://en.avm.de/products/fritzbox/fritzbox-7530/technical-data/

Did Digiweb not send some instructions?

If they do, they would be read, re-read, questioned and then ignored

tcawley29

As a rule of thumb (from what I've seen in the past anyways) if there is no dedicated wan port lan1 is usually the wan port

babi-hrse

tcawley29 wrote: »

As a rule of thumb (from what I've seen in the past anyways) if there is no dedicated wan port lan1 is usually the wan port

Sky q modem is Lan port 2 and I think the newer sky modem is Lan 4

tcawley29

babi-hrse wrote: »

Sky q modem is Lan port 2 and I think the newer sky modem is Lan 4

Interesting. Never seen the likes of that before.

babi-hrse

They just like to be awkward. The newer ones work from the get go the sky q need to be told to stop looking to the dsl port and to the ethernet port for connection as their not natively set that way.

tcawley29

babi-hrse wrote: »

They just like to be awkward. The newer ones work from the get go the sky q need to be told to stop looking to the dsl port and to the ethernet port for connection as their not natively set that way.

It would just bother my OCD too much :pac:

Johnboy1951

The Cush wrote: »

You're reading the wrong documents, the figure is €170 from Jan 1st last

:mad:

Pricing of wholesale broadband services
Wholesale Local Access (WLA) market and the Wholesale
Central Access (WCA) markets
Response to Consultation Document 17/26 and Final Decision
Response to Consultation and Decision
Reference:
ComReg 18/95
Decision:
D11/18
Date:
19/11/2018

I was reading the correct document I believe, but used the figure proposed by Eircom in their alternate submission (the only one available). The alternate scheme was not accepted by Comreg.

Nowhere in that 'decision' document did I see €170 mentioned.

Regardless the figure being incorrect, the basis of the post stands it seems.

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote:

The €294 sliding scale method has been abandoned (before it ever started). It is now basically €170 for everything i.e. all new connections and all transfers between ISPs. Every time you switch the new ISP that you move to is charged €170.

So the customer is expected to pay an 'installation' charge of €170 when switching ISP in place of the €2.50 it actually costs to do the switch!

...... and is expected to pay this every time? That would be contrary to (ii) below.

2.37
For FTTH connection charges, ComReg is of the view that Eircom should have the flexibility to recover the customer specific costs of the connection related investments from a combination of an intial upfront connection charge, a charge for migration to another service provider and a recurring rental charge, but that the new connection charge and the charge for migration to another service provider should be subject to two conditions:
(i) The charges for new connections and migrations to another service
provider should be the same;
(ii) The combination of a new connection charge and a charge for
migration to another service provider should not exceed the level that
would allow Eircom to recover its customer specific connection related
investment over the lifetime of the underlying assets, given the same
assumptions about customer churn as are used in the margin squeeze
tests.

So if I have already paid €100 connection fee, then I should only pay €70 on first switch and nothing thereafter (ignoring the €2.50 migration cost).

Yet I see adverts showing ~€100 for switching.

Something seems very wrong.

Maybe it is just me misinterpreting things?

If so maybe someone could put me right.

tsue921i8wljb3

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

:mad:

I was reading the correct document I believe, but used the figure proposed by Eircom in their alternate submission (the only one available). The alternate scheme was not accepted by Comreg.

Nowhere in that 'decision' document did I see €170 mentioned.

Regardless the figure being incorrect, the basis of the post stands it seems.



So the customer is expected to pay an 'installation' charge of €170 when switching ISP in place of the €2.50 it actually costs to do the switch!

...... and is expected to pay this every time? That would be contrary to (ii) below.



So if I have already paid €100 connection fee, then I should only pay €70 on first switch and nothing thereafter (ignoring the €2.50 migration cost).

Yet I see adverts showing ~€100 for switching.

Something seems very wrong.

Maybe it is just me misinterpreting things?

If so maybe someone could put me right.

The customer does not pay the €170, the ISP pays open eir €170. It is then up to each ISP to decide how much of the €170 to pass on. Is is up to the customer to choose the best deal available to them.

The existing customers who switch are in effect subsidising new connections to the network. Comreg think this is equitable, I don't think it is myself but I can't see it being changed.

ED E

Its a total noose around the free retail market. Switching should only cost the €2.50 + CPE + Delivery costs to the onboarding ISP. Then poor service (in any form) will be rapidly punished by customers moving away.

tsue921i8wljb3

Here is the pdf from Comreg about the charge.

Johnboy1951

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

The customer does not pay the €170, the ISP pays open eir €170. It is then up to each ISP to decide how much of the €170 to pass on. Is is up to the customer to choose the best deal available to them.

The existing customers who switch are in effect subsidising new connections to the network. Comreg think this is equitable, I don't think it is myself but I can't see it being changed.

Thanks.
But that does not gel with the decision document

(i) The charges for new connections and migrations to another service provider should be the same;
(ii) The combination of a new connection charge and a charge for
migration to another service provider should not exceed the level that
would allow Eircom to recover its customer specific connection related
investment over the lifetime of the underlying assets, given the same
assumptions about customer churn as are used in the margin squeeze
tests.

Eircom have already stated that €294 is the figure which covers the cost, as I understand it.
Multiple charges of €170 will far exceed that.

I really am having difficulty understand how both (i) and (ii) can be applied.

tsue921i8wljb3

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Thanks.
But that does not gel with the decision document


Eircom have already stated that €294 is the figure which covers the cost, as I understand it.
Multiple charges of €170 will far exceed that.

I really am having difficulty understand how both (i) and (ii) can be applied.

€294 does not cover the cost.

Carolan Lennon wrote:

Unfortunately, in rural areas, connections are not standard. What we now find is that the first time a technician visits a house is almost like a recce of what has to be done. Do we need to put a pole in? Do trees need to be trimmed? What will we have to do about cable? The cost of connecting a rural house, on average, is €450, because almost every connection is unique. The cost of a pole is €600. Many rural connections require the erection of a pole. That is the reality. Comparing the SIRO connection charge in urban and semi-urban areas with a connection in rural Ireland is not fair. Our connection cost is €450 whereas we charge €270. The connection charge reply did not compare apples with apples and it certainly did not compare like for like. Building networks in rural Ireland is expensive.

This was obviously before the change from €270 to universal €170 took place but the fact remains. Connecting rural premises is expensive.

Andy From Sligo

banie01 wrote: »

If they do, they would be read, re-read, questioned and then ignored

ooh get you and your high horse

Andy From Sligo

tcawley29 wrote: »

As a rule of thumb (from what I've seen in the past anyways) if there is no dedicated wan port lan1 is usually the wan port

HG 658c/659 has a DSL socket and a dedicated WAN socket ...

Andy From Sligo

I got to say - that Fritz!Box is a very good bit of kit .. lots of features built into it , even a DECT base , answering machine, an app available and loads of settings built in. Looks like a very good high end router indeed.

Got a call from OpenEir this afternoon checking everything was OK for tomorrows install. Does it look like OpenEir will do the install then rather than KN or someone?

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I got to say - that Fritz!Box is a very good bit of kit .. lots of features built into it , even a DECT base , answering machine, an app available and loads of settings built in. Looks like a very good high end router indeed.

Got a call from OpenEir this afternoon checking everything was OK for tomorrows install. Does it look like OpenEir will do the install then rather than KN or someone?

It will likely be KN. I think that the phone calls might even be KN pretending to be open eir.

tuxy

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

It will likely be KN. I think that the phone calls might even be KN pretending to be open eir.

Perhaps they say they are KN calling on behalf of Open Eir?

ED E

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

It will likely be KN. I think that the phone calls might even be KN pretending to be open eir.

The KN FLMs can call to sort issues but that call is likely from the OpenEir customer care teams. KN tend to be the caller when something changes (like finishing the prior job early/cancellation).

Andy From Sligo

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

It will likely be KN. I think that the phone calls might even be KN pretending to be open eir.

ooh shneaky ....

tuxy wrote: »

Perhaps they say they are KN calling on behalf of Open Eir?

definately said OE apparently no mention at all of KN .. but it must be them. OE take care of all the big infrastructure stuff don't they?

tsue921i8wljb3

I thought someone had previously posted that it was KN calling but I could be mistaken.

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Thank you Dominique Loud Waistband - I have found a leaflet in there that says connect from ONT to LAN 1 socket - cheers

Confusion was that on their website they have instructions for setting up a Fritz!Box 4040 so thats the one I thought i was getting for FTTH connection

The 4040 is a bit outdated now. Also, the 4040 did not have analogue ports, the DSL port, the DECT base and a few other bits and bobs.

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

I thought someone had previously posted that it was KN calling but I could be mistaken.

It can be a mixed bag. Sometimes OpenEIR customer care, sometimes KN, sometimes KN pretending to be OpenEIR.

If you ring the number they are ringing from back, it great with with "KN installation services" or something the likes. But if you query the people you speak to, they tell you they are OpenEIR.

/M

Andy From Sligo

I wonder if I will get the combined ODP/ONT or have the installers gone back to separates again does anyone know?

Johnboy1951

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

€294 does not cover the cost.

Originally Posted by Carolan Lennon
Unfortunately, in rural areas, connections are not standard. What we now find is that the first time a technician visits a house is almost like a recce of what has to be done. Do we need to put a pole in? Do trees need to be trimmed? What will we have to do about cable? The cost of connecting a rural house, on average, is €450, because almost every connection is unique. The cost of a pole is €600. Many rural connections require the erection of a pole. That is the reality. Comparing the SIRO connection charge in urban and semi-urban areas with a connection in rural Ireland is not fair. Our connection cost is €450 whereas we charge €270. The connection charge reply did not compare apples with apples and it certainly did not compare like for like. Building networks in rural Ireland is expensive.

This was obviously before the change from €270 to universal €170 took place but the fact remains. Connecting rural premises is expensive.

Costs such as replacing poles and trimming hedges etc are excluded from the costs allowed by Comreg.
The €294 is, as I understand the submission, the estimated average cost of connections, including the increase from the 50 metre limit to the 150 metre limit.
That amount I believe would include urban and rural connections.

In any case, the actual amounts ... €294, €270, €170 etc. ...... are not the real concern, but more how much and why the customer pays and how is the amount limited, as Comreg requires, to no more than the cost to Eircom.

babi-hrse

Marlow wrote: »

The 4040 is a bit outdated now. Also, the 4040 did not have analogue ports, the DSL port, the DECT base and a few other bits and bobs.



It can be a mixed bag. Sometimes OpenEIR customer care, sometimes KN, sometimes KN pretending to be OpenEIR.

If you ring the number they are ringing from back, it great with with "KN installation services" or something the likes. But if you query the people you speak to, they tell you they are OpenEIR.

/M

It's kn they just say their open eir people tend to get confused and rightly wary when they find out it's a third party doing the actual install. Gdpr and all that can end up getting shouted down the line by the wrong person. Half of my colleagues say they're eir when calling customers. I just stick to kn on behalf. I rather enjoy the cat and mouse conversations of wary people "how do you know I have an install for today?"

Andy From Sligo

ah well sure they can call themselves Batman if they like , as long as they know how to splice and fusion fibre cable and get me 150mbps I couldnt give a flying fig what they call themselves LOL

tsue921i8wljb3

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Costs such as replacing poles and trimming hedges etc are excluded from the costs allowed by Comreg.
The €294 is, as I understand the submission, the estimated average cost of connections, including the increase from the 50 metre limit to the 150 metre limit.
That amount I believe would include urban and rural connections.

In any case, the actual amounts ... €294, €270, €170 etc. ...... are not the real concern, but more how much and why the customer pays and how is the amount limited, as Comreg requires, to no more than the cost to Eircom.

Comreg have approved the €170 for all migrations which suggests that they are happy with the figures. I think you're going to have to take it up with them.

Johnboy1951

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

Comreg have approved the €170 for all migrations which suggests that they are happy with the figures. I think you're going to have to take it up with them.

Do you or anyone else read this differently to what I do?

If I change ISPs each year over the next 8 years, and the ISPs are still charging ~€100 per migration, is that what Comreg intended?

It seems not based on that bit I quoted previously.

Andy From Sligo

trying to get my head around this - so (and hypothetically because I am not moving) but say if i paid €170 for installation with an ISP and I moved house ... but the new house I moved to had fibre coming in through the wall and the ODP was there in place, and the ONT was there still in place .... i would still have to pay €170 to get connected again? - or could i bring ONT from old house and carry on using internet or whats the story?

And again if I paid €170 in this house I am in at the moment but the new house I moved to was on the rollout map for FTTH and it was up and live in the area but the fibre wasnt coming into the house and no ODP and ONT I would have to pay €170 for installation? - it seems very confusing all this installation charge now they have come up with - has anyone really thought it all out properly?