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Eir rural FTTH thread II

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    #1112
    Dave147
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭Dave147


    irishfeen wrote: »
    You should come 5 miles outside Mallow town where we still have dial up connections and this round of FTTH is coming within 700m ... now that is actually making me crazy...

    Ugh, can you not get LTE broadband with Imagine or someone to keep you going? Ireland still in stone age when it comes to internet ffs.


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    #1113
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    irishfeen wrote: »
    You should come 5 miles outside Mallow town where we still have dial up connections and this round of FTTH is coming within 700m ... now that is actually making me crazy...
    Dave147 wrote: »
    Ugh, can you not get LTE broadband with Imagine or someone to keep you going? Ireland still in stone age when it comes to internet ffs.

    5 miles outside Mallow, AKA a field. You'd get the same service in Germany.


    7220 premises with VDSL, 460 with GPON. Telcos can't be expected to work miracles.


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    #1114
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    ED E wrote: »
    5 miles outside Mallow, AKA a field. You'd get the same service in Germany.


    7220 premises with VDSL, 460 with GPON. Telcos can't be expected to work miracles.
    5 miles outside Mallow in a field with 4 sesperate houses with 11 people working paying tax with 3 houses with businesses being ran from the premises.. it’s not only folks in towns and cities that keep this country going!

    Half that field was bought and owned by my grandparents who farmed the land since 1949 where they were paying line rental to Eir/Eircom/Telecom Éireann etc since the late 1960’s - we still today have dial up broadband on the same lines as poles and the network is falling down around us...


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    #1115
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    ALTO have been in front of the Joint Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment today complaining about the dominance of eir in the Irish broadband market. Unsurprisingly the wholesale connection charge has been raised, they are also looking for increased manpower and powers for Comreg.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/eir-s-dominance-in-broadband-market-to-detriment-of-consumers-1.3527997


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    #1116
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    irishfeen wrote: »
    5 miles outside Mallow in a field with 4 sesperate houses with 11 people working paying tax with 3 houses with businesses being ran from the premises.. it’s not only folks in towns and cities that keep this country going!

    What you have to consider though, is the Eir/Openeir now is privatized. It's no benefit to them, that you pay tax and run businesses from the premises. They have to make the rollout feasable.

    This is the downside of the government privatizing the telecoms network. Then again ... before they did that, it could still have taken 5-10 years even to get a phone line ... so we do have progress.

    Running the business from out there and not from a business park, that has the facilities, is your choice .. not OpenEIRs fault.

    /M


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    #1117
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    Marlow wrote: »
    What you have to consider though, is the Eir/Openeir now is privatized. It's no benefit to them, that you pay tax and run businesses from the premises. They have to make the rollout feasable.

    This is the downside of the government privatizing the telecoms network. Then again ... before they did that, it could still have taken 5-10 years even to get a phone line ... so we do have progress.

    Running the business from out there and not from a business park, that has the facilities, is your choice .. not OpenEIRs fault.

    /M
    How do you run a 140 acre farm from a business park? It’s not our choice that the land needed to supply milk, barley, eggs, peas, potatoes etc is situated outside towns and cities.

    It comes with the territory that people have to live in the country to stock people’s shelves...


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    #1118
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,518 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Maybe OE should be more open to letting people pay for those fringe properties that they won't touch due to the cost involved - could be a nice earner for some of the KNN guys


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    #1119
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    irishfeen wrote: »
    How do you run a 140 acre farm from a business park? It’s not our choice that the land needed to supply milk, barley, eggs, peas, potatoes etc is situated outside towns and cities.

    It comes with the territory that people have to live in the country to stock people’s shelves...

    You were talking about 3 businesses not 1. And the farm itself, yes that has become an issue. But that's an issue it always was.

    To get a phoneline in rural areas traditionally always has taken years. Then again, you'd have the land to erect a mast to get alternative infrastructure/connectivity without problems. Something city dwellers can't do.

    /M


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    #1120
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    Marlow wrote: »
    You were talking about 3 businesses not 1. And the farm itself, yes that has become an issue. But that's an issue it always was.

    To get a phoneline in rural areas traditionally always has taken years. Then again, you'd have the land to erect a mast to get alternative infrastructure/connectivity without problems. Something city dwellers can't do.

    /M
    The other business are a haulage company and a tractor/truck mechanic... I am not asking for special treatment, I am asking for the government/Eir to give us a chance - we are doing no harm to anyone only running households, businesses and rearing families.

    All Eir/Government is offering us is dial up broadband in 2018! - that’s not a fair chance.


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    #1121
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,518 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Correction for you - Eir≠Government

    If you want to get high speed BB then get on to Naughton to get the rural rollout happening. It's really not eir's problem to solve.


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    #1122
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Correction for you - Eir≠Government

    If you want to get high speed BB then get on to Naughton to get the rural rollout happening. It's really not eir's problem to solve.

    It was a / ... both of them!


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    #1123
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Maybe OE should be more open to letting people pay for those fringe properties that they won't touch due to the cost involved - could be a nice earner for some of the KNN guys

    He's talking about a large farm. There are products he can order today for a business like that. Pay per meter.


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    #1124
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    ED E wrote: »
    He's talking about a large farm. There are products he can order today for a business like that. Pay per meter.

    It’s more in general ED, all of us out here struggle with dongles, mobile coverage and data limits - as I say all we want is the someone to give us a date and say we will have FTTH in March 2020.. that alone would be enough.

    We don’t know will we have to wait another 2 decades or even more while everyone else reaps the benefits.


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    #1125
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,518 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    irishfeen wrote: »
    all we want is the someone to give us a date and say we will have FTTH in March 2020

    Very unlikely

    eir have already admitted they will be concentrating on urban development
    enet haven't even got "spades in the ground" yet (very quiet from them recently)


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    #1126
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Very unlikely

    eir have already admitted they will be concentrating on urban development
    enet haven't even got "spades in the ground" yet (very quiet from them recently)

    The only positive I see if that if Eir let Enet use the poles they could lay up to 5km+ a day per crew as there is almost no ducting in rural Ireland, it’s all pole to pole from what I see.


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    #1127
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,518 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    irishfeen wrote: »
    The only positive I see if that if Eir let Enet use the poles they could lay up to 5km+ a day per crew as there is almost no ducting in rural Ireland, it’s all pole to pole from what I see.

    No indication of what there workforce size is and you can probably assume they will target stretches that contain a considerable amount of "possible" subscribers
    No point laying 5km of cable for 5 houses and only 1 is interested


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    #1128
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    fritzelly wrote: »
    No indication of what there workforce size is and you can probably assume they will target stretches that contain a considerable amount of "possible" subscribers
    No point laying 5km of cable for 5 houses and only 1 is interested

    eNet is using the same contractors as Eir mostly. KN in a lot of places.

    /M


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    #1129
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    fritzelly wrote: »
    No indication of what there workforce size is and you can probably assume they will target stretches that contain a considerable amount of "possible" subscribers
    No point laying 5km of cable for 5 houses and only 1 is interested

    Within a 3km radius here there are about 18 premises on the same pole to pole network so here’s hoping!


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    #1130
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    irishfeen wrote: »
    Within a 3km radius here there are about 18 premises on the same pole to pole network so here’s hoping!

    Not sure you get it. 18 homes in a 28km^2 area isnt viable. Like 150 years to pay back the labour involved.


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    #1131
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    ED E wrote: »
    Not sure you get it. 18 homes in a 28km^2 area isnt viable. Like 150 years to pay back the labour involved.
    Who said anything about 28km?


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    #1132
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,518 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    irishfeen wrote: »
    Who said anything about 28km?

    You said 3km radius (28km in area) - bit different than all down a straight line, thats lots of cabling runs to serve houses here and there.
    Thats why the government need to subsidize it else not commercially viable


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    #1133
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    fritzelly wrote: »
    You said 3km radius (28km in area) - bit different than all down a straight line, thats lots of cabling runs to serve houses here and there.
    Thats why the government need to subsidize it else not commercially viable
    Sorry I should have meant 3km max in a straight line pole to pole for at least the 18.


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    #1134
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    irishfeen wrote: »
    Sorry I should have meant 3km max in a straight line pole to pole for at least the 18.

    Give you an example of the cost of under 100m of fiber to be run, that I've been quoted to connect a business in Ennis: €18,600.

    Thats for 1 premise and under 100m to be covered, which wasn't covered under the normal rollout of fiber. (this is not OpenEIR, but that doesn't matter at this point. OpenEIR would just have said NO)

    And while there might be less civils involved, when running fiber 3km and out to 18 houses, that's not dense population. Somebody has to pay for that infrastructure being put in place.

    /M


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    #1135
    Airwire: MartinL
    Company Representative Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Airwire: MartinL


    We've updated the database today for OpenEIR FTTC/FTTH.

    It can be found at https://www.airwire.ie/avail


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    #1136
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,518 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    irishfeen wrote: »
    Sorry I should have meant 3km max in a straight line pole to pole for at least the 18.

    I don't think I've come across any eir 300k installs that were that sparsely populated even on a straight run - usually that many houses in less than a 1km run even on the boreens.
    Messy job splicing cables for one house which I imagine will be the case in many instances


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    #1137
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,518 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Marlow wrote: »
    Give you an example of the cost of under 100m of fiber to be run, that I've been quoted to connect a business in Ennis: €18,600.

    :eek:


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    #1138
    9726_9726
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭9726_9726


    It's very, very simple.

    *** If it was viable, it would already be done, or be in progress in the 300K ***

    Nobody can argue with that fact.


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    #1139
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    The problem here is that some feel "entitlement" .. and there is none tbh. Broadband may be as important to some these days as running water, but there are no guarantees or agreements of such for supply.

    Broadband is not covered as part of the USO. Phone service is. So until that changes, there are no requirements for them to do it. And they won't, if it's not viable. Not until somebody else foots the cost for it to make it profitable.

    So: either find alternative providers or start running your own cabling to somewhere, where you can pick up higher speeds, if you're that pushed for it.

    Either that or canvass your local TD etc. to get the USO changed or the agreements finalized to get this done.

    There's not much else to it.

    /M


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    #1140
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,518 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Marlow wrote: »
    Either that or canvass your local TD etc. to get the USO changed or the agreements finalized to get this done.

    Eir want to get rid of the USO for rural phone lines (in fact they would rather there was no USO period), so no hope for BB in that


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    #1141
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Eir want to get rid of the USO for rural phone lines (in fact they would rather there was no USO period), so no hope for BB in that

    I know .. I'm just outlining what would be needed ... the reality is different.

    /M


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