Eir rural FTTH thread II

wheresthebeef

jd wrote: »

Near the top it says you can get speeds of up to 1000 (Underneath where it says Fibre to the home bundles). If you qualify for FTTH you can get up to 1000.

That text after "eir fibre unlimited" saying up to 100 is misleading, I guess the eir online team will have to review the content there.

Digiweb told me they can provide me with 1000mbps so I suspect Eir can too but their website is just a mess. I'll get it in and then see if I can get an upgrade.

Looking more closely at the pole situation. The nearest pole is on the far boundary of my parents garden so hopefully they'll stick a pole down in between our two gates next to where my duct is and hoof the cable over their house, down the pole and into the duct. Parents are now thinking of asking for upgrade to fibre too.

Gonzo

Digiweb's website now appears to have a proper checker which checks for FTTC, Eir FTTH, Siro FTTH and DSL services at an address, telephone number or eircode.

MiskyBoyy

Gonzo wrote: »

Digiweb's website now appears to have a proper checker which checks for FTTC, Eir FTTH, Siro FTTH and DSL services at an address, telephone number or eircode.

This link?

https://www.digiweb.ie/line-checker-fibre/

Edit: nevermind found it 😠https://www.digiweb.ie/broadband-checker/

fritzelly

KOR101 wrote: »

And then there is this article in Independent about large scale job losses at Eir.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/fears-grow-that-eirs-new-owner-plans-to-cut-up-to-1000-staff-36691234.html

Wonder where they will be cutting them, hard enough to get through on the phone as it is.
But this is just speculation at this point, didn't see anything concrete in the report

Grab All Association

fritzelly wrote: »

Wonder where they will be cutting them, hard enough to get through on the phone as it is.
But this is just speculation at this point, didn't see anything concrete in the report

Customer care and other areas I’d imagine. There’s very little left to cut in OpenEir. A lot of work is outsourced to KN and Defusion for example.

jd

Grab All Association wrote: »

Customer care ..

Not much there left, I believe. A hell of a lot of it is outsourced to HCL, I think.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/indian-tech-firm-hcl-to-create-up-to-100-jobs-in-limerick-1.3213195

thehorse

re FTTH speeds.....

With FTTH, the speed options are 150/300/1000mb as per Eir’s site , right ? (I’m an eir customer).

I’ve heard of scenarios where ftth is available but only 100mb is offered, I guess this is not correct.

Thoughts/opinions welcome

Thanks

Robxxx7

thehorse wrote: »

re FTTH speeds.....

With FTTH, the speed options are 150/300/1000mb as per Eir’s site , right ? (I’m an eir customer).

I’ve heard of scenarios where ftth is available but only 100mb is offered, I guess this is not correct.

Thoughts/opinions welcome

Thanks

The 100mb is more than likely FTTC (Fibre to the cabinet) and not FTTH .. different product

thehorse

Robxxx7 wrote: »

The 100mb is more than likely FTTC (Fibre to the cabinet) and not FTTH .. different product

Great cause they are rolling out ftth in my area so hopefully, I’ll be able to get one out of 150/300/1000

Marlow

thehorse wrote: »

re FTTH speeds.....

With FTTH, the speed options are 150/300/1000mb as per Eir’s site , right ? (I’m an eir customer).

I’ve heard of scenarios where ftth is available but only 100mb is offered, I guess this is not correct.

That confusion comes from the fact, that Eir calls it all "Fibre" ... even when it isn't fiber at all. FTTC may have fiber to the cabinet ... but it's still copper based DSL to the premise, so it's completely misleading.

And yes, all FTTH on OpenEIRs platform is 150/300/1000 at the moment. There will be more profiles later on this year. And then the real confusion is going to start.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

That confusion comes from the fact, that Eir calls it all "Fibre" ... even when it isn't fiber at all. FTTC may have fiber to the cabinet ... but it's still copper based DSL to the premise, so it's completely misleading.

And yes, all FTTH on OpenEIRs platform is 150/300/1000 at the moment. There will be more profiles later on this year. And then the real confusion is going to start.

/M

Do you know what those new profiles are?

Marlow

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

Do you know what those new profiles are?

There was chatter about 100M/20M, 250M/40M and 400M/60M with the current 150M+300M profiles being retired for new connections.

But I'm not sure, if that's finalized.

The 100M profile basically would mean, that you can get the same pricetag profile on VDSL and FTTH, so disregardless of media.

/M

ED E

Speed != Cost is the issue there.

Ideally OE want a better payback on FTTH which is costing them a chunk to deploy. Giving the end user 100 or 150 is no real difference for them but the lower pricing could hurt them. Better to set the minimum a little high to justify elevated pricing (without going too far and destroying uptake).

fritzelly

Those profiles make more sense and more in direct competition to the likes of VM

ED E

fritzelly wrote: »

Those profiles make more sense and more in direct competition to the likes of VM

FTTH doesnt really compete with VM much, where VM is there is usually FTTC which means FTTH will skip over it.

fritzelly

ED E wrote: »

FTTH doesnt really compete with VM much, where VM is there is usually FTTC which means FTTH will skip over it.

Meant as a price comparison (look at our prices compared to what VM charge for the same), then again if the rumours hold out they may start going head to head with VM in the urban areas

sean72

OK guys I been on FTTC as part of the roll out (50mb speed) since Nov and whilst overall I have been very pleased I really do not like the modem/router and the wifi coverage or lack of. Can anyone recommend a replacement modem/router with better wifi and most of all direct me as to how to deploy/install it.

Is it a simple process are they instructions anywhere?

Marlow

ED E wrote: »

FTTH doesnt really compete with VM much, where VM is there is usually FTTC which means FTTH will skip over it.

Well. That may change with the new ownership. Those new profiles won't appear before autumn anyhow, the earliest.

As.for the 100M profile: It doesn't make much sense apart from that you could deploy cheaper routers. So cut cost in other places. Which doesn't make much sense to Eir either. The stuff they deploy is dirt cheap as it is.

The wholesale price difference between FTTC and 150M is buttons as it is.

/M

thehorse

So, to clarify, if you have FTTH available in your area, then the slowest speed you can expect to get is 150mb, right ?

Marlow

thehorse wrote: »

So, to clarify, if you have FTTH available in your area, then the slowest speed you can expect to get is 150mb, right ?

The slowest profile, yes .. there can still be contention etc. all depending on provider and uptake.

But it's not like VDSL/FTTC, if that's what you mean, where your line is depending on quality.

If you subscribe to 150 Mbit/s, you get 150 Mbit/s. If your provider doesn't have enough upstream at busy times, then it slows down.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

ED E wrote: »

Speed != Cost is the issue there.

Ideally OE want a better payback on FTTH which is costing them a chunk to deploy. Giving the end user 100 or 150 is no real difference for them but the lower pricing could hurt them. Better to set the minimum a little high to justify elevated pricing (without going too far and destroying uptake).

Do you not think there is a gap in the market for a profile targeting the mobile networks? Something symmetric with a limited data allowance for not more than €30. There must be a cohort of people who are never going to pay over €50 for an internet package.

Marlow

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

Do you not think there is a gap in the market for a profile targeting the mobile networks? Something symmetric with a limited data allowance for not more than €30. There must be a cohort of people who are never going to pay over €50 for an internet package.

Of course there is. The problem is that the base wholesale pricing negates that option.

The providers pay nearly 30 eur a month for the basic line before they haul it across the country and then feed it with internet. That also applies to FTTC.

That's the reason why there still is plenty of business for the regional fixed wireless providers who offer that price margin.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

Of course there is. The problem is that the base wholesale pricing negates that option.

The providers pay nearly 30 eur a month for the basic line before they haul it across the country and then feed it with internet. That also applies to FTTC.

That's the reason why there still is plenty of business for the regional fixed wireless providers who offer that price margin.

/M

Could ISPs not suggest such a package to Openeir which would come with a lower wholesale cost? I'd be interested what their reaction would be. Would SIRO be any more receptive to such an idea?

sean72

thehorse wrote: »

So, to clarify, if you have FTTH available in your area, then the slowest speed you can expect to get is 150mb, right ?

Well in my 'lived' experience it does not mean this in all cases. If you live 1km or less from an activated exchange in your area you will only get FTTC not FTTH. I could only avail of 50mb speeds.

ED E

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

Do you not think there is a gap in the market for a profile targeting the mobile networks? Something symmetric with a limited data allowance for not more than €30. There must be a cohort of people who are never going to pay over €50 for an internet package.

Its a nice idea, but OpenEir still have to pay for the work to be done.

Lets just say its €30/mo tariff, €25/mo goes to OpenEir. Install fee is €150. That means an operator with ZERO costs still takes 30 months to recoup the initial setup (3yr contract) or push it to the customer which makes it totally uncompetitive.

Marlow

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

Could ISPs not suggest such a package to Openeir which would come with a lower wholesale cost? I'd be interested what their reaction would be. Would SIRO be any more receptive to such an idea?

Siro is already cheaper than OpenEir.

And OpenEir is not voluntarily going to make things cheaper. Traffic is not their problem. That's extra (if you don't pick the connections up locally) on top of the line rental. Even more money for them.

/M

Marlow

ED E wrote: »

Its a nice idea, but OpenEir still have to pay for the work to be done.

Lets just say its €30/mo tariff, €25/mo goes to OpenEir. Install fee is €150. That means an operator with ZERO costs still takes 30 months to recoup the initial setup (3yr contract) or push it to the customer which makes it totally uncompetitive.

The margins of that example are actually not far off. Most providers literally don't make more than 5 EUR/month on what they offer on lines that are provided through OE. So, if they didn't have better margins on other products (fixed wireless for example) or additional products (telephony, tv packages etc.), it would be completely unviable to provide the service.

That's also the reason, why there are so few providers, that actually have gone down the route to do the FTTH offerings. With more speed on the packages, the cost for the running the network goes through the roof ... unless you oversubscribe massively or have other revenue, that already pays for the infrastructure.

That's also the reason, why no other provider (than Eir retail) offers free install on new FTTH lines. It's a loss making excercise. I can't see, where Eir is going to make return on investment, when they offer free installation and up to 200 EUR against leaving other providers. That only works on a 10+ year plan ... maybe. (If you forget, that customers may move to other providers before that again)

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

ED E wrote: »

Its a nice idea, but OpenEir still have to pay for the work to be done.

Lets just say its €30/mo tariff, €25/mo goes to OpenEir. Install fee is €150. That means an operator with ZERO costs still takes 30 months to recoup the initial setup (3yr contract) or push it to the customer which makes it totally uncompetitive.

Obviously the €25 would have to be reduced in such a scenario. They will eventually reach a saturation point where no more people are going to sign up for a current FTTH package. Why not then target those who may consider signing up at a lower price point. Then again Vigin (UPC) have been around a long time and they haven't introduced such a package so perhaps I'm being naive.

ED E

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

Obviously the €25 would have to be reduced in such a scenario.

Fine in Singapore. Not really possible here. Maybe in a decade when the CAPEX has been paid off.

OpenEir dont want loss making end users, they aren't benefiting from those quad play deals like the retails are.

Marlow

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

Obviously the €25 would have to be reduced in such a scenario. They will eventually reach a saturation point where no more people are going to sign up for a current FTTH package. Why not then target those who may consider signing up at a lower price point. Then again Vigin (UPC) have been around a long time and they haven't introduced such a package so perhaps I'm being naive.

No. You're not naive. They just don't see such a package as viable.

Give you a list of base price packages in the bracket you're talking about:

Airwire - 2 Mbit/s FWA - no limit - 30 EUR (4 Mbit/s for 35)
BBNet - 4 Mbit/s FWA - 5GB daily cap - 35 EUR
Lightnet - up to 100M/20M FWA/fiber - 80GB monthly cap - 35 EUR
Northwest Broadband - 4 Mbit/s FWA - no limit - 25 EUR
Westconnect - 8 Mbit/s FWA - no limit - 32 EUR
Westnet - 2 Mbit/s FWA - no limit - 35 EUR

And I can guarantee you, that 50-70% of their customers are on those cheapest packages.

/M