Eir rural FTTH thread II

Johnboy1951

Failed install today. Was supposed to be this morning, but he turned up at 13:30 and decided it was a two man job, as the fibre has to be brought back from the pole to the closest main underground cabinet (further away from me), and then from there in an underground existing duct to the smaller underground cabinet outside my house, and then .... through my duct into the house.

I was informed it is a two man job to lift the cover off those 'main' cabinets .... "requires two keys" was the expression used.

No work at all was carried out. I thought he might rod my duct in preparation, but no.
I guess that would only delay him as he is unlikely to be called to the same job next week.

Apparently my copper landline stays active and in place, despite the fact that I will supposedly have a phone bundle with the FTTH product.
I was not aware of that ..... and it is concerning should eir attempt to charge a monthly fee for a separate copper fed landline.

We wait and see ...... next week maybe.

tsue921i8wljb3

KCross wrote: »

What diameter is the cable that they run in through your house duct?

I was at a house recently that had a fibre cable on the outside wall and it was very thin. Looked like it could be easily broken. Are all the FTTH installs the same?

I was expecting it to be a cable of similar size and strength to the copper cable just to protect it from being broken. Is that not the case?

5mm x 3mm.

Andy From Sligo

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Failed install today. Was supposed to be this morning, but he turned up at 13:30 and decided it was a two man job, as the fibre has to be brought back from the pole to the closest main underground cabinet (further away from me), and then from there in an underground existing duct to the smaller underground cabinet outside my house, and then .... through my duct into the house.

I was informed it is a two man job to lift the cover off those 'main' cabinets .... "requires two keys" was the expression used.

No work at all was carried out. I thought he might rod my duct in preparation, but no.
I guess that would only delay him as he is unlikely to be called to the same job next week.

Apparently my copper landline stays active and in place, despite the fact that I will supposedly have a phone bundle with the FTTH product.
I was not aware of that ..... and it is concerning should eir attempt to charge a monthly fee for a separate copper fed landline.

We wait and see ...... next week maybe.

good point and yes I should imagine you still will indeed continue to be charged line rental charge if you have an Active PTSN line installed - if that me I would cancel landline altogether and get a VOIP package on the FTTH from your provider. - not sure whether you can make emergency calls without a landline (can you make emergency calls with VOIP? .. maybe you can?) and just that some of the cheaper FTTH packages with VOIP only allow you to avail of cheap or free landline to landline national calls and not free calls to mobiles - woth checking it all out. That line rental is a real con these days .. and expensive!

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

good point and yes I should imagine you still will indeed continue to be charged line rental charge if you have an Active PTSN line installed - if that me I would cancel landline altogether and get a VOIP package on the FTTH from your provider. - not sure whether you can make emergency calls without a landline (can you make emergency calls with VOIP? .. maybe you can?) and just that some of the cheaper FTTH packages with VOIP only allow you to avail of cheap or free landline to landline national calls and not free calls to mobiles - woth checking it all out. That line rental is a real con these days .. and expensive!

He should not be charged a separate line rental. What they do if an active copper landline is in place is leave the line on copper and the new phone package gets put on it.

Andy From Sligo

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

5mm x 3mm.

and normal PTSN copper cable size is?

- does the fibre have a braided steel outer wire running on the outside of it to protect it?

tsue921i8wljb3

Here is the data sheet of the drop fibre cable they use.

I'd guess the copper they use is about 4mm OD.

Johnboy1951

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

He should not be charged a separate line rental. What they do if an active copper landline is in place is leave the line on copper and the new phone package gets put on it.

Hopefully that is the case.
In fact it would be preferable for me, as I already use and have a VOIP set up and had some fears that the eir VOIP set up might interfere with my own.
So the ideal for me would be the landline on the copper cable and broadband on the fibre with my own VOIP on the fibre also ..... and no extra charge for the copper of course

Airwire: MartinL

We can now place orders for the Corrandulla and Bernaderg exchanges.

Andy From Sligo

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Hopefully that is the case.
In fact it would be preferable for me, as I already use and have a VOIP set up and had some fears that the eir VOIP set up might interfere with my own.
So the ideal for me would be the landline on the copper cable and broadband on the fibre with my own VOIP on the fibre also ..... and no extra charge for the copper of course

so you want your cake and eat it LOL

always wondered what "line rental" is to be honest ... and then i got to thinking it must be towards maintenance towards the telephone line infrastructure - you know paying for eir to go up poles and in manhole covers and come round to your house to fix faulty copper wires going to the master socket or faulty PTSN telephone socket and the likes - well FTTH will need maintenance as well , just cause its fibre technology it doesent mean it will never ever break down - but (and i dont want to give eir any ideas here ) but although they charge a connection fee and an installation fee they dont charge line rental on the fibre optic cable (unless they factor it all into the price of the subscription packages?)

i would say in a way they are in a rock and a hard place really ... the fibre infrastructure they are doing in Ireland would not come cheap at all - all the equipment, heavy machinery, workers cables and more expenses - yet they got to get the installation price right and everything - i mean , not as fast as fibre but we have a company in our area offering fixed wireless at an installation price of 49eur and thats it , no connection charge, unlimited broadband, no telephone line needed. eir dont want to be really pushing their installation charges back up to 240eur to be honest and a connection charge on that - it wont make it look attractive .. even at 99eur it could be out of the question for some people and they wont take it up especially residential properties so then it would have been a waste installing it into the areas if people are not going to take it up because of high installation charge and high monthly package prices

m99T

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I have had 2 different answers on this one from 2 different people.

We have a 'never used/activated' copper PTSN telephone line in our duct underneath the front garden and even runs to an external eircom connection box underneath the ESB meter on the outside wall and then runs onto all copper telephone wiring into the house (our house was built 2008) but its phone landline has never ever been activated.

so one person told me (cant remember who now my brain is fried with so much information about FTTH and everything) " oh no, what they will do is take your unused PTSN copper cable out of the duct and replace it with the Fibre (fiber) cable which is a little bit bigger than the PTSN cable if not same size" - and if you want to use a normal telephone (and take a VOIP package) we supply you with a router with VOIP terminal where you plug in your normal telephone and make calls by VOIP over fibre.

Then another person who said the duct has to be perfectly clear for the fibre cable to pass through (or there will be an extra charge for unblocking it!) when i sad can it go in place of the PTSN cable said "Oh no, thats against the law - they cannot remove the PTSN cable and leave you with no landline - the fibre cable will have to run alongside the PTSN , thats why the duct as to be clear of all blockages!"

If you have a phoneline installed you can opt to remain on a copper line. Easy way to do this is say you have a monitored alarm system installed. That seems to be how some eir reps do it.

Otherwise your phone comes via the fibre and VOIP.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Failed install today. Was supposed to be this morning, but he turned up at 13:30 and decided it was a two man job, as the fibre has to be brought back from the pole to the closest main underground cabinet (further away from me), and then from there in an underground existing duct to the smaller underground cabinet outside my house, and then .... through my duct into the house.

I was informed it is a two man job to lift the cover off those 'main' cabinets .... "requires two keys" was the expression used.

No work at all was carried out. I thought he might rod my duct in preparation, but no.
I guess that would only delay him as he is unlikely to be called to the same job next week.

Apparently my copper landline stays active and in place, despite the fact that I will supposedly have a phone bundle with the FTTH product.
I was not aware of that ..... and it is concerning should eir attempt to charge a monthly fee for a separate copper fed landline.

We wait and see ...... next week maybe.

Sounds like a whole lot of fun for the installer right there. I'd say change that from copper to VOIP quick before they come out if you want that done.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I've just been thinking about this - if it is to be believed the gossip in the village that "the cabinet is a mess inside , and nobody wants to touch it!" i'm thinking why? - these are trained eir (or KN networks or whoever) engineers ... why would they be frightened / not trained enough to roll their sleeves up and just sort it out inside for a day or 2 - just dig in there and get it sorted!

We dont live in a third world country and surely a massive infrastructure such as eir should not be bothered about sorting out wiring in a cabinet nor make a huge mistake about main and node exchanges on a list sent to providers .. meaning it has to be corrected on this list even before a chosen provider can get in touch with eir (or KN whoever it is who ultimately installs the fibre into the home cable and equipment) - meaning they have had to mark it as down / not live any more. You would think this crowd would check, double check, triple check that the information was correct before sending it out. not make mistakes and hold everything up!

I 100% agree with you. This is a problem that needs to be fixed from the top management down. Its almost like they are asleep at the wheel, not caring what work is finished first, logically it should be the stuff not seen and most important.

But I wouldn't want to touch something that looks like this either;

Johnboy1951

m99T wrote: »

If you have a phoneline installed you can opt to remain on a copper line. Easy way to do this is say you have a monitored alarm system installed. That seems to be how some eir reps do it.

Otherwise your phone comes via the fibre and VOIP.

One might think so ..... but as I posted that is not what I was told today.

Also, when ordering there was no mention of VOIP ..... just that the bundle included a basic phone package (free Irish landline calls at off peak times).

Sounds like a whole lot of fun for the installer right there. I'd say change that from copper to VOIP quick before they come out if you want that done.

If there is no extra charge for leaving it on the copper then I am ok with that. The copper line is good.

I 100% agree with you. This is a problem that needs to be fixed from the top management down. Its almost like they are asleep at the wheel, not caring what work is finished first, logically it should be the stuff not seen and most important.

But I wouldn't want to touch something that looks like this either;

tsue921i8wljb3

m99T wrote: »

If you have a phoneline installed you can opt to remain on a copper line. Easy way to do this is say you have a monitored alarm system installed. That seems to be how some eir reps do it.

Otherwise your phone comes via the fibre and VOIP.

Are you sure about that? What they have been doing up to now is if there is an *active* eir landline in place it was left on copper. There was no opting in required. Maybe you have information that this procedure has changed.

Andy From Sligo

technically (and I dont really know why a person would want to) if you had a VDSL (FTTC) or ADSL PSTN phone line and FTTH both running into the home you could if you wanted to have 2 lots of fibre broadband and set 1 router on ch6 and other router to ch4 (or set them both to auto) couldnt you ... or will the provider only offer 1 service/package to 1 address?

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

technically (and I dont really know why a person would want to) if you had a VDSL (FTTC) or ADSL PSTN phone line and FTTH both running into the home you could if you wanted to have 2 lots of fibre broadband and set 1 router on ch6 and other router to ch4 (or set them both to auto) couldnt you ... or will the provider only offer 1 service/package to 1 address?

I'm sure you could if you wanted to.

Andy From Sligo

m99T wrote: »

Thats easy - I could do it

The red wires go where the red wires have to go , and the green and white ones go where the green and white wires are supposed to go - and then you get some wire cutters and cut off all the wires that are not needed

Andy From Sligo

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

According to Openeir plans it's down for both FTTC and FTTH. Those closer to the cabinet will get FTTC and the outskirts will get FTTH.

Is there one of the cabinets on the right at

https://goo.gl/maps/4fNvCYEwRM22

Wife took a few picture of the cabinets down there today for me.

What a lot of cabinets for such a little village!!

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Wife took a few picture of the cabinets down there today for me.

What a lot of cabinets for such a little village!!

As I said that is the exchange. It would usually be housed in a building but they obviously don't have a suitable location there. The VDSL cab is there on the right but it may not be commissioned yet.

ED E

2x ESB pillars
VDSL Cab (Green)
Old AXE
Old DSLAM
New MSAN

* I think.

m99T

m99T wrote: »

But I wouldn't want to touch something that looks like this either;

I've seen and had to work on FAR worse than that, just imagine three in a row and 10m cables looping between them in random directions just to lose the slack. Mostly failing and ending up in a bundle on the floor.

tsue921i8wljb3

ED E wrote: »

2x ESB pillars
VDSL Cab (Green)
Old AXE
Old DSLAM
New MSAN

* I think.

The VDSL cab is the only new item. If you look at it on Street View the others are all there. It must have been wireless backhaul as there is an antenna visible on a pole.

Andy From Sligo

just got a DM tweet back from open eir they said "sorry for the delay , a delay has arisen for your area going live. Our team is currently working to resolve this and you should be able to order mid-September.."

ah well, at least its not too much longer to wait - if it all goes to plan. Feel sorry for the poor ol beggars that signed up with the door to door rep who came round the other week and said it was live in the area and that it would be installed in a week or 2

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

I've seen and had to work on FAR worse than that, just imagine three in a row and 10m cables looping between them in random directions just to lose the slack. Mostly failing and ending up in a bundle on the floor.

you would want to be alert - not inebriated or hangover to sort wiring out like that - i would have to take a headache tablet after wiring something like that up - just shows you, when they are housed in a cabinet and the doors are shut the public havent a clue what a myriad of wires are all jumbled up inside!

m99T

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

Are you sure about that? What they have been doing up to now is if there is an *active* eir landline in place it was left on copper. There was no opting in required. Maybe you have information that this procedure has changed.

Only info I have is dealing with the reps recently. Our Donegal rep told myself that he is able to either give a voip service as default or select that the house has a monitored alarm and they won't remove the POTS or PTSN

Andy From Sligo

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

The VDSL cab is the only new item. If you look at it on Street View the others are all there. It must have been wireless backhaul as there is an antenna visible on a pole.

correct - when I lived in the village it was ADSL2 or ADSL2+ we had through PTSN to the house and yes the dish on the pole at the cabinets pointed to the mast on the Ox Mountains (think its still delivered like that until the FTTC is in operation) come down the dish into the cabinet then distributed to the homes in the area by copper on the poles - used to suffer a lot of dropouts of the phone signal/ADSL signal especially when heavy downpours of rain or snow because of the wireless backhaul

m99T

Deleted User wrote: »

I've seen and had to work on FAR worse than that, just imagine three in a row and 10m cables looping between them in random directions just to lose the slack. Mostly failing and ending up in a bundle on the floor.

You should see wISP work in Donegal masts. So bad it isn't even funny.

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

correct - when I lived in the village it was ADSL2 or ADSL2+ we had through PTSN to the house and yes the dish on the pole at the cabinets pointed to the mast on the Ox Mountains (think its still delivered like that until the FTTC is in operation) come down the dish into the cabinet then distributed to the homes in the area by copper on the poles - used to suffer a lot of dropouts of the phone signal/ADSL signal especially when heavy downpours of rain or snow because of the wireless backhaul

I suspect your mess of cables excuse is not the reason for the FTTH delay. As far as I can see there is no OLT located among those cabinets (unless it can go in the VDSL cab?) so it's likely that the FTTH is coming from Collooney and bypassing the local exchange.

tsue921i8wljb3

m99T wrote: »

Only info I have is dealing with the reps recently. Our Donegal rep told myself that he is able to either give a voip service as default or select that the house has a monitored alarm and they won't remove the POTS or PTSN

Thanks. They may have changed procedure then and you may need to request to stay on POTS.

m99T

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

Thanks. They may have changed procedure then and you may need to request to stay on POTS.

Ill be on the phone with the connect team and sales this week. I'll ask and let you know if I hear anything more on it.

Andy From Sligo

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

I suspect your mess of cables excuse is not the reason for the FTTH delay. As far as I can see there is no OLT located among those cabinets (unless it can go in the VDSL cab?) so it's likely that the FTTH is coming from Collooney and bypassing the local exchange.

so would that make the parent CLY and not RTD then (CLY/CNY) ?

I had seen them running the fibre cables from Collooney to Coolaney on the poles but just presumed they were going to terminate the fibre at the cabinets to make the village FTTC .. then when I heard about FTTH , I thought they would just carry it on from FTTC on the poles in the area

ED E

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

The VDSL cab is the only new item. If you look at it on Street View the others are all there. It must have been wireless backhaul as there is an antenna visible on a pole.

New is relative.

My assumption of the history of CLY would be:

No service
PSTN service added via a subtended AXE (First cab)
ADSL service added via an extra cab (Second cab)
Exchange rehomed into its own primary EXCH(mini) - (third cab taking over duties of the old pair)
VDSL cab added (tbc)

There could be an OLT in the newer MSAN. 650 path exchange with NGB.