Eir rural FTTH thread II

Andy From Sligo

fritzelly wrote: »

Distribution point - the black box on the pole or in the chamber

ah yes of course - thanks

shigllgetcha

Stage one complete. Dug under the footpath and chiseled a hole at the wall.



Tomorrow i hope to get half inch hydrodare pipe and dug up the current duct.

Should be tidy when its fed under the footpath

tuxy

fritzelly wrote: »

When whoever books an appointment they have no access to any info other than what OE give them which isnt much
As for the DP many times its "checked" by someone then the tech reports it back as not active when he tries an install

Is it OE that have contracted the work to KN?
Would it not reduce cost if OE had someone in an office make some checks for obvious possible problems. I assume that the engineers are on more pay than office staff.

In my case a KN engineer was sent to install several times even though KN had not replaced the faulty DP outside my house. Each time they would log that it's not replaced and call again in about a week to log that it was still not done. Why keep sending engineers to the premises to log a problem that has been logged many time and not logged as resolved.
There are many report of installs being booked even though it is known that something is not in pace and the problem logged.
Who's at fault here? The ISP, OE or KN?
It just seems like a massive waste of money and resources.

fritzelly

Fault lies entirely at OE's doorstep
I suspect many a time someone is not doing their job either when they are supposed to be checking stuff.

They do do preliminary checks but not for everything. Would get rid of a lot of annoyances if they had people going round checking this stuff but then you could have one guy spending most of the time just driving around from one DP to another.
Ideally they should have systems in place to know some things automatically

ED E

They're field service technicians not engineers. You wouldn't call a man with a first aid kit a doctor. FLMs in the office would be paid a lot more.


The OE contract is for the installation, if it fails for a reason that's up to KNN there's no repeat fee. KNN aren't known for their organizational skills (see keys fiasco repeating ad nauseum).

Johnboy1951

I don't know if I mentioned it in previous posts, but the tech who cam to do my install on Friday said there was no DP in the chamber.

My tech-knowledgeable neighbour had a look in that chamber after the guys had been around doing the fibre wire roll out in the ducts and on poles ..... and he said there was a DP in the chamber.

The tech refused to do the job on Friday because he said one needed to be fitted and to do so the main chamber had to be lifted (two man job he says) to get a connection.

It will be interesting to see if that was the case, or if the tech just did not feel like doing the job because he was late arriving on Friday afternoon.

Marlow

The ISP gives OE Customer name, Eircode, contact details and selects that package the customer wants. UG then reports back with first available appointment (automated)

OE does nothing (worst case), validates order (best case).

Data gets pushed to contractor (KN), which OE have contracted.

KN gets customer name, phone number, address details. These days they even get the Eircode. That wasn't the case originally.

KN does not get told, which ISP ordered the connection (OE wants to prevent preferential treatment). KN are supposed to say, they are contracted by OpenEIR. They can usually guestimate, that it's not Eir, because all other providers tend to be "standalone" installations. But most field techs are not bright enough to think that far.

KN does scheduling of their field techs, guestimates what ressources are needed (usually not) etc.

KN field techs are contractors. They get paid per completed installation. So KN doesn't really loose money, if they don't allocate the right ressources or send the field tech 3 counties sideways. Maybe a little. But not enough, that it hurts.

The looser in the end are the end customer (wasted time), the ISP (disgruntled customer) and the KN field tech (no money).

At fault are primarily: OpenEIR .... secondarily: KN .. for being useless with their scheduling and assigning ressources as needed.

/M

tuxy

ED E wrote: »

They're field service technicians not engineers. You wouldn't call a man with a first aid kit a doctor. FLMs in the office would be paid a lot more.


The OE contract is for the installation, if it fails for a reason that's up to KNN there's no repeat fee. KNN aren't known for their organizational skills (see keys fiasco repeating ad nauseum).

I see, so OE pay KN Group to do a job and then KN go about it in the most inefficient manner.

Another one is install that require two men. They will always send one man to turn up who has to ring around and try to find another who is available rather than just arranging the install for a time who two are available.

Marlow

tuxy wrote: »

Another one is install that require two men. They will always send one man to turn up who has to ring around and try to find another who is available rather than just arranging the install for a time who two are available.

Whereas Actavo, who do the installations for SIRO, deem EVERY job is a 2 man job. Job done.

And then, the odd time, they turn up with 3-5 people and 3 vans. Because they train new techs on actual jobs.

/M

tuxy

Marlow wrote: »

KN field techs are contractors. They get paid per completed installation. So KN doesn't really loose money, if they don't allocate the right ressources or send the field tech 3 counties sideways. Maybe a little. But not enough, that it hurts.

Good info, thanks. This explains a lot. So many of the field techs that called to me left at the first sign of any hold up. I guess in the hope that the next call on the list was more straight forward.
The last guy who finally installed didn't question anything and got the job done really fast as he was ok with overlooking a few minor health and safety guidelines.

fritzelly

@Marlow I suspect the KN guys nearly always know who the ISP is because the customer tells them outright.

Marlow

fritzelly wrote: »

@Marlow I suspect the KN guys nearly always know who the ISP is because the customer tells them outright.

Yes, once they arrive on site. Absolutely. It doesn't matter at that point.

It's more at the point of scheduling etc., that OE is trying to avoid this. Between the customer and field tech, that would be obvious.

Unless the customer even doesn't know, who they ordered from. That's not uncommon either

/M

fritzelly

Dunno if it would make much difference bringing it back in house.
At least the tech would be paid a salaried wage, wouldn't matter if the job took 1 hour or 5 hours
And you wouldn't have so many failed installs on a Friday afternoon (and even a Monday morning...)

Marlow wrote: »

Unless the customer even doesn't know, who they ordered from. That's not uncommon either

True lol

Marlow

fritzelly wrote: »

Dunno if it would make much difference bringing it back in house.
At least the tech would be paid a salaried wage, wouldn't matter if the job took 1 hour or 5 hours
And you wouldn't have so many failed installs on a Friday afternoon (and even a Monday morning...)

A few of the KN engineers i've met in the field have already let the rumours slip, that they all might be back working for OE next year.

Because it's costing OE too much money having it outsourced ... and probably is too messy, too.

The way I look at it: it was the ONLY way to get around the unions and get rid of the oldtimers, who'd do a 2-3 hours per workday .. at the most.

A few of those old timers moved to KN and didn't last 2 months at that work pace. Retired instead.

/M

fritzelly

Oh yeah lotta of old staff on ridiculous wages (and still a lot there within the group)
Now they can employ outta school untrained (in the area) techs to do the job instead.

Andy From Sligo

fritzelly wrote: »

Oh yeah lotta of old staff on ridiculous wages (and still a lot there within the group)
Now they can employ outta school untrained (in the area) techs to do the job instead.

been seeing a lot of the recruitment adverts from OE like : "Are you ready to supply Ireland with next generation broadband?"

god, that is messy getting OE to do the pole work/DP work , and KN to do the last bit of FTTH to the premises - at least if it was just OE doing the whole lot it would make things a lot simpler - I should imagine if it were the UK on say BT openreach it would be BT covering all the work until its finally into the house wouldnt it be or do they sub contact the last hurdle out like that too?

plodder

tuxy wrote: »

If going the powerline adapter route it may work best to have the Router in the bed room and a wifi access point in the hall connected by powerline plugs.

That's what I use. TP Link (TL-WPA4220KIT) where the wifi extender part in the hall is very unobtrusive and has two LAN ports for wired equipment as well. The Eir router, ODP, ONT and other powerline unit are all together where the cable comes into the house, which can be anywhere you want really (with at least two power sockets). This is a temporary arrangement though until I install CAT5/6 cabling.

Andy From Sligo

plodder wrote: »

That's what I use. TP Link (TL-WPA4220KIT) where the wifi extender part in the hall is very unobtrusive and has two LAN ports for wired equipment as well. The Eir router, ODP, ONT and other powerline unit are all together where the cable comes into the house, which can be anywhere you want really (with at least two power sockets). This is a temporary arrangement though until I install CAT5/6 cabling.

might be a silly question but my house is all pre-wired with POTS copper to each phone socket in the rooms. There is a phone socket in the hall and a phone scket in the bedroom. Could the ethernet cable coming out of the ONT have its ethernet plug chopped off and then wired to the POTS copper wire (which is already in place to the hall) and then a ethernet plug terminated onto the POTS wire in the hall to go into the wireless router or will it not work because of lack of number of wires/shielding ect that ethernet need?

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

might be a silly question but my house is all pre-wired with POTS copper to each phone socket in the rooms. There is a phone socket in the hall and a phone scket in the bedroom. Could the ethernet cable coming out of the ONT have its ethernet plug chopped off and then wired to the POTS copper wire (which is already in place to the hall) and then a ethernet plug terminated onto the POTS wire in the hall to go into the wireless router or will it not work because of lack of number of wires/shielding ect that ethernet need?

No.

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

been seeing a lot of the recruitment adverts from OE like : "Are you ready to supply Ireland with next generation broadband?"

god, that is messy getting OE to do the pole work/DP work , and KN to do the last bit of FTTH to the premises - at least if it was just OE doing the whole lot it would make things a lot simpler - I should imagine if it were the UK on say BT openreach it would be BT covering all the work until its finally into the house wouldnt it be or do they sub contact the last hurdle out like that too?

KN do pretty much all of the work. Openeir don't have the manpower to do it themselves.

plodder

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

might be a silly question but my house is all pre-wired with POTS copper to each phone socket in the rooms. There is a phone socket in the hall and a phone scket in the bedroom. Could the ethernet cable coming out of the ONT have its ethernet plug chopped off and then wired to the POTS copper wire (which is already in place to the hall) and then a ethernet plug terminated onto the POTS wire in the hall to go into the wireless router or will it not work because of lack of number of wires/shielding ect that ethernet need?

Actually, what I'm hoping to do, is to make use of something similar, and to pull a CAT5/6 cable up into the attic using existing POTS wiring and install an RJ45 socket in place of the RJ11 one and then run the cable through the attic to the other end of the house. Haven't attempted any of it yet. So, no idea if it will work. But, that is what you would have to do, as the existing cabling can't be used.

fritzelly

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

might be a silly question but my house is all pre-wired with POTS copper to each phone socket in the rooms. There is a phone socket in the hall and a phone scket in the bedroom. Could the ethernet cable coming out of the ONT have its ethernet plug chopped off and then wired to the POTS copper wire (which is already in place to the hall) and then a ethernet plug terminated onto the POTS wire in the hall to go into the wireless router or will it not work because of lack of number of wires/shielding ect that ethernet need?

I know navi answered it but thats like saying can I plug a scart lead in to an hdmi socket

Marlow

fritzelly wrote: »

I know navi answered it but thats like saying can I plug a scart lead in to an hdmi socket

Well .... there are people that still have CRT TVs ... I miss my oul' Nokia 28" Trinitron.

/M

The Cush

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

might be a silly question but my house is all pre-wired with POTS copper to each phone socket in the rooms. There is a phone socket in the hall and a phone scket in the bedroom. Could the ethernet cable coming out of the ONT have its ethernet plug chopped off and then wired to the POTS copper wire (which is already in place to the hall) and then a ethernet plug terminated onto the POTS wire in the hall to go into the wireless router or will it not work because of lack of number of wires/shielding ect that ethernet need?

My brother's house was built a few years ago and all telephone points were wired with Cat5e IIRC, have you confirmed what cable is behind the faceplate?

fritzelly

The Cush wrote: »

My brother's house was built a few years ago and all telephone points were wired with Cat5e IIRC, have you confirmed what cable is behind the faceplate?

How would that work as they are different socket types unless they were forward planning to swap them out?
Sounds a bit weird to wire a telephone socket with cat5 cabling

Andy From Sligo

The Cush wrote: »

My brother's house was built a few years ago and all telephone points were wired with Cat5e IIRC, have you confirmed what cable is behind the faceplate?

yeah have whipped the faceplates off already - they all standard plain telephone cable unfortunately , which is shame - whats more been up into attic and can see normal UHF TV cable bundled up there in the loft - but searched and cannot see a bundle of telephone wires up there . Sometimes on the later house build (our house built 2008) they (electricians) bundle the UHF TV cable and phone cables in one corner of attic near to a 13a socket to make things simpler - but no, can only see the TV cables there - so I reckon main telephone cable goes to master telephone socket in hall, and then all the other sockets wired into that and dont even touch the loft at all....

tsue921i8wljb3

fritzelly wrote: »

How would that work as they are different socket types unless they were forward planning to swap them out?
Sounds a bit weird to wire a telephone socket with cat5 cabling

If you were using Ethernet anyway you could use it for the phone points just by using one pair out of the four. Saves you buying separate phone cable.

Andy From Sligo

I went to a house once (and it was quite a few years back as well, when fibre would have been what you have for breakfast ) where next to every telephone socket was a cat 5 socket - now that is what you call forward planning!

ED E

Marlow wrote: »

And then, the odd time, they turn up with 3-5 people and 3 vans. Because they train new techs on actual jobs.

Thats a favourite of Virgin, always swarm small faults like ants to an intruder.

fritzelly

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I went to a house once (and it was quite a few years back as well, when fibre would have been what you have for breakfast ) where next to every telephone socket was a cat 5 socket - now that is what you call forward planning!

Thats what I would have thought