Eir rural FTTH thread II

Andy From Sligo

i'd like to live in a world where at least 2 people turn up in the van to install ... then again i suppose in this world of cutbacks and austerity and penny pinching if they think one man can do a 2 person job they will do it - Its like the busses when they used to have conductors .. they got rid of them too!

Andy From Sligo

interesting to note on this page:
https://fibrerollout.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/FTTH-Day-of-Installation.pdf
that "Where there is no duct provided the fibre cable will run from the telegraph
pole to the gable of the house"
But dont say "if your duct is blocked you will be given the option and if in agreement we will run the cable from the telegraph pole to the gable instead"

Instead they say if there is a duct there you will have to arrange to have the blockage cleared and that this may delay things.

Obviously if your on an estate with no poles then you havent got that option. - but in my case (and in quite a few others cases I would say) I have telephone poles across from my house (with the DP connections on them) and also a duct underneath my front garden - so (and I dont think it will be) but say if my duct is blocked and they cannot go that way, if they offered running the cable from the DP on the pole to my cable instead rather than getting me to unblock the duct, then I would go for it coming from pole to gable if they offered it .. but it dont say they would, they would most probably go away again and come back when your duct is clear.

tsue921i8wljb3

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

interesting to note on this page:
https://fibrerollout.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/FTTH-Day-of-Installation.pdf
that "Where there is no duct provided the fibre cable will run from the telegraph
pole to the gable of the house"
But dont say "if your duct is blocked you will be given the option and if in agreement we will run the cable from the telegraph pole to the gable instead"

Instead they say if there is a duct there you will have to arrange to have the blockage cleared and that this may delay things.

Obviously if your on an estate with no poles then you havent got that option. - but in my case (and in quite a few others cases I would say) I have telephone poles across from my house (with the DP connections on them) and also a duct underneath my front garden - so (and I dont think it will be) but say if my duct is blocked and they cannot go that way, if they offered running the cable from the DP on the pole to my cable instead rather than getting me to unblock the duct, then I would go for it coming from pole to gable if they offered it .. but it dont say they would, they would most probably go away again and come back when your duct is clear.

It's in the installer's interest to complete the job so generally if the cable can go aerially they will use that route rather than abandoning the installation.

The Cush

fritzelly wrote: »

How would that work as they are different socket types unless they were forward planning to swap them out?
Sounds a bit weird to wire a telephone socket with cat5 cabling

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

If you were using Ethernet anyway you could use it for the phone points just by using one pair out of the four. Saves you buying separate phone cable.

You hit the nail on the head there Dominique Loud Waistband, the electrician simply ran the same cable to both the ethernet and telephone points.

tsue921i8wljb3

The Cush wrote: »

You hit the nail on the head there navi, the electrician simply ran the same cable to both the ethernet and telephone points.

I did the same in my brother's house!

AidenL

KN were next door to us this morning,I spoke to them before I went to work.

Seems there is light at the DP at my gate now. The install they came to do failed due to a blocked duct. I made the right decision to go overhead it seems.

Actually could you PM me the contact details for the guy who helped you as he might. He might be able to help our next door, if he’s interested.

shigllgetcha wrote: »

Stage one complete. Dug under the footpath and chiseled a hole at the wall.



Tomorrow i hope to get half inch hydrodare pipe and dug up the current duct.

Should be tidy when its fed under the footpath

Johnboy1951

After a five minute notice of arrival time from openeir tech, tension mounts .......
will I get connected this morning?
is the DP there or have they to fit one?
is it live really?



I wait and see ...

shigllgetcha

AidenL wrote: »

KN were next door to us this morning,I spoke to them before I went to work.

Seems there is light at the DP at my gate now. The install they came to do failed due to a blocked duct. I made the right decision to go overhead it seems.

Actually could you PM me the contact details for the guy who helped you as he might. He might be able to help our next door, if he’s interested.

I saw the ladder and was wondering had you taken things into your own hands lol

Yeh no problem. Im not sure if he unblocks ducts of not, he wouldnt do the work to divert my duct but maybe it would have been different if it was blocked it seemed more like he just locates the blockage. Suits me because Ive no problem diverting it myself. He didnt have rods long enough to tell if the duct in my house was terminated in the floor

Mine wasnt blocked which was great because it turns out it goes up my neighbours drive and turns off a few feet from their door

I think it was marlow who said the fibre probably goes underground where that bundle of fibre was hanging from a pole half way into town and i think he was spot on with that, theres an eir box in the ground on the road and the dps are live now since they connected that

Johnboy1951

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

After a five minute notice of arrival time from openeir tech, tension mounts .......
will I get connected this morning?
is the DP there or have they to fit one?
is it live really?



I wait and see ...

One hour later ..... no go

The eir(com) duct from the chamber which carries the landline cable, is blocked about a metre from the chamber.
A rather large tree has grown over the duct and is very likely the cause of the blockage.
That tree appears to be 'supporting' an ESB pole from which I get my power.
So, not many solutions.
If the tree is cut away and its roots dug out to expose the duct, it is likely to lessen the stability of the ESB pole.
So to do so would require a joining of forces of eir, esb, openeir and knn ....... a rather unlikely scenario.

I have an alternate route, but that would require a new duct from the chamber to the end of this alternate which is in an ESB-Style box in the boundary wall.
I am not permitted to go near the chamber of course, and the said tree is in the way of a new route also.

Quite the conundrum!

If the tree/duct is sorted, then the fun start trying to get a rod through the duct ..... which has a 'hockey stick' bend in it under ~4" of concrete.
From what I have seen today their rod end is likely to catch on any edge it meets.
I though it might have a small 'ball' at its tip to prevent this, but I was told no ..... they do not have such things.

All the advice I got was that I need to keep pressure on my provider to try to get the situation sorted somehow.
How to do that is quite another day's work!

It looks like this is a failed install that will last some time.
It will need to be surveyed and planned and approved etc etc etc

I do not expect anything to happen soon ..... maybe I might get connected for Xmas, but I would not bet on it.

Oh yes ..... almost forgot ....... the tech who came out on Friday and called a two man team ....... useless idiot!
My neighbour was correct.
There is an existing DP in the chamber and according to the tech this morning it is live.
So a complete waste of manpower and two vans, one with a cherry-picker on the back, all because the Friday tech did not even lift the chamber cover, see the DP and test it!

There is nothing so disheartening as incompetence and laziness combined!

shigllgetcha

Maybe you can find someone who will spend some time and try to get past the blockage and pull a draw wire. I dont think they will care if they can pull the fibre through with a draw wire without rods. Id say even rent some rods and spend some time at it of you think it will eventually get past it?

You cant access the duct either side of the roots, divert it at both sides and loop around the roots?

Johnboy1951

shigllgetcha wrote: »

Maybe you can find someone who will spend some time and try to get past the blockage and pull a draw wire. I dont think they will care if they can pull the fibre through with a draw wire without rods. Id say even rent some rods and spend some time at it of you think it will eventually get past it?

You cant access the duct either side of the roots, divert it at both sides and loop around the roots?

I am presently considering cutting the duct at my side of the tree & pole, and inserting a 'T' piece in there with a second piece of duct going around the tree and pole to the chamber.
This would mean a serious amount of hauling on the heavy landline cable to pull it out from the house to the 'T' and insert it into the 'T', and at the same time pull out two ropes so that one could be used to pull the copper cable back in and the second used to go through the new duct to the chamber.
I will need to have some digging done around the pole to see if it is possible ..... there is very high bedrock in that area and little soil on the surface, but might be sufficient for a 3" duct.

It will take a few days for me to get someone to do the work on this, and have to have a consultation with neighbour also as the chamber is on his site (near the boundary with mine.

If he removes the tree (in consultation with ESB) then the duct could be repaired.

shigllgetcha

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I am presently considering cutting the duct at my side of the tree & pole, and inserting a 'T' piece in there with a second piece of duct going around the tree and pole to the chamber.
This would mean a serious amount of hauling on the heavy landline cable to pull it out from the house to the 'T' and insert it into the 'T', and at the same time pull out two ropes so that one could be used to pull the copper cable back in and the second used to go through the new duct to the chamber.
I will need to have some digging done around the pole to see if it is possible ..... there is very high bedrock in that area and little soil on the surface, but might be sufficient for a 3" duct.

It will take a few days for me to get someone to do the work on this, and have to have a consultation with neighbour also as the chamber is on his site (near the boundary with mine.

If he removes the tree (in consultation with ESB) then the duct could be repaired.

I dont think there is any point moving the existing phone line, just leave it in place, cut an access hole in the duct and T it off, get a draw wire put in and let KN pull the fibre through. Someone correct me if that is pure crap.

I have to divert my duct in the garden and im just going to hacksaw an oval in the existing duct and run a new duct to a bedroom wall.

I dont think KN will care as long as there is a draw wire?

shigllgetcha

Just got a call that my DP is live and arranged an install on Tuesday so I better get digging

Johnboy1951

shigllgetcha wrote: »

I dont think there is any point moving the existing phone line, just leave it in place, cut an access hole in the duct and T it off, get a draw wire put in and let KN pull the fibre through. Someone correct me if that is pure crap.

That there is a huge difficulty ...... easiest way to do it is to attach the draw wire to the copper cable, pull out the cable, draw wire and rope (to pull in the cable again).

BTW .... speaking to the KN guy today, he was delighted to see I used heavy rope as he said lighter wires just snap in a lot of cases and things like builders line were useless.
His words ..... but I expect on a very short run in ducting that a lighter wire (or none) would be sufficient.

I have to divert my duct in the garden and im just going to hacksaw an oval in the existing duct and run a new duct to a bedroom wall.

I dont think KN will care as long as there is a draw wire?

You need to ensure there is no sharp bend in the line or the fibre could be damaged.
Also no sharp edges from any jointing you do.

shigllgetcha

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

That there is a huge difficulty ...... easiest way to do it is to attach the draw wire to the copper cable, pull out the cable, draw wire and rope (to pull in the cable again).

Ive seen people tie a bag to a draw wire and use a hoover to pull the bag and the wire through the duct, hoping that works for me.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

His words ..... but I expect on a very short run in ducting that a lighter wire (or none) would be sufficient.

I have a load of paracord that should do the job, my run is over 60m so I dont think I cant get anything thicker through

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You need to ensure there is no sharp bend in the line or the fibre could be damaged.
Also no sharp edges from any jointing you do.

Yeh im going to be very careful with the junction box to get it line up well.

m99T

Update 7 on the wrong DP install:



Thats all folks. 29 days install time. Let the fun begin.

BandMember

m99T wrote: »

Update 7 on the wrong DP install:



Thats all folks. 29 days install time. Let the fun begin.

Sure you know what they say - seven times a charm! :P

Marlow

m99T wrote: »

Update 7 on the wrong DP install:

Thats all folks. 29 days install time. Let the fun begin.

Was that what you ordered ? Or wrong package ?

/M

m99T

Marlow wrote: »

Was that what you ordered ? Or wrong package ?

/M

Yeah ordered the 150. Thats all needed at the moment, can be bumped up to 1G if needed in the future. Having all sorts of fun now trying to get the VOIP to work in this house on the old telephone system.

Andy From Sligo

is there any specific particular reason the Irish system chose FTTH as the terminology rather than FFTP .. which fibre to the premises would have been more explanatory as it doenst just supply homes it can supply businesses and shops, schools and churches etc...

Andy From Sligo

m99T wrote: »

Yeah ordered the 150. Thats all needed at the moment, can be bumped up to 1G if needed in the future. Having all sorts of fun now trying to get the VOIP to work in this house on the old telephone system.

you wont know yourself as they say - what was your download speed before? on the previous way you got broadband?

m99T

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

is there any specific particular reason the Irish system chose FTTH as the terminology rather than FFTP .. which fibre to the premises would have been more explanatory as it doenst just supply homes it can supply businesses and shops, schools and churches etc...

Always thought FTTP was just fibre to the building then copper to individual floors. I.E for flats where they run a fibre point to the network room but connect you over traditional copper to that point.

Could be wrong.

m99T

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

you wont know yourself as they say - what was your download speed before? on the previous way you got broadband?

Wish it was my network, only getting paid to install it. They had Bluebox Broadband and you're talking about 3 mb/s fixed wireless. Whole family is impressed with the new speeds.

Andy From Sligo

m99T wrote: »

Wish it was my network, only getting paid to install it. They had Bluebox Broadband and you're talking about 3 mb/s fixed wireless. Whole family is impressed with the new speeds.

ah right i see. When I finally get FTTH i am looking forward to better upload speeds - I am on fixed wireless and upload speed is 1.80mbps on a good day, and i was uploading a 1080p vid on youtube the other day and it was taking ages to upload it - be a lot quicker at around 30mbps on the FTTH.

Andy From Sligo

m99T wrote: »

Always thought FTTP was just fibre to the building then copper to individual floors. I.E for flats where they run a fibre point to the network room but connect you over traditional copper to that point.

Could be wrong.

I was sort of like fathoming out BT openreach up in NI and UK seem to refer it as FTTP and havent heard them use the FTTH references

shigllgetcha

I think its just the way its marketed

m99T

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

ah right i see. When I finally get FTTH i am looking forward to better upload speeds - I am on fixed wireless and upload speed is 1.80mbps on a good day, and i was uploading a 1080p vid on youtube the other day and it was taking ages to upload it - be a lot quicker at around 30mbps on the FTTH.

Yeah 30mb seems to be what I am getting here doing some first tests. Going to let the averages run out over the next few weeks and report back with them.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I was sort of like fathoming out BT openreach up in NI and UK seem to refer it as FTTP and havent heard them use the FTTH references

Havn't looked much at BT in the north but interesting that this is the case.

On a side note:

Anyone know how to get VOIP out of a bridge'd f2000?

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

is there any specific particular reason the Irish system chose FTTH as the terminology rather than FFTP .. which fibre to the premises would have been more explanatory as it doenst just supply homes it can supply businesses and shops, schools and churches etc...

FTTP = Fibre to the Premise
FTTH = Fibre to the Home

Same thing. Different name. Some providers like to call it FTTP, so that they don't discourage business customers.

It has NOTHING to do with the technology.

The technology that is used in Ireland is GPON, which is a single fiber strand with 2 different color frequencies transmitted on that, one for RX (2.5 Gbit/s aggregrated bandwidth), one for TX (1.25 Gbit/s aggregated bandwidth). 2 colors, so full duplex.

SIRO are already testing XG-PON2, which allows 10 Mbit/s aggregated bandwidth symmetric in full duplex on the same fibre and can be run side-by-side on the same fibre with GPON.

If you call it FTTP, FTTH, FTTB makes no difference. It only tells you that it's a subscriber circuit on fibre all the way to the home/premise/business opposed to FTTC, which is VDSL, which is copper on the last mile or NGN which would bring a full fibre pair to the premise and would be uncontended.

Oh . .and then there is FTTx ... x just stands for any odd subscriber fibre circuit. As in, we couldn't make up our mind.

/M

Johnboy1951

SIRO are already testing XG-PON2, which allows 10 Mbit/s aggregated bandwidth symmetric in full duplex on the same fibre and can be run side-by-side on the same fibre with GPON.

That I was not aware of, thanks.

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

FTTP = Fibre to the Premise
FTTH = Fibre to the Home

Same thing. Different name. Some providers like to call it FTTP, so that they don't discourage business customers.

It has NOTHING to do with the technology.

The technology that is used in Ireland is GPON, which is a single fiber strand with 2 different color frequencies transmitted on that, one for RX (2.5 Gbit/s aggregrated bandwidth), one for TX (1.25 Gbit/s aggregated bandwidth). 2 colors, so full duplex.

SIRO are already testing XG-PON2, which allows 10 Mbit/s aggregated bandwidth symmetric in full duplex on the same fibre and can be run side-by-side on the same fibre with GPON.

If you call it FTTP, FTTH, FTTB makes no difference. It only tells you that it's a subscriber circuit on fibre all the way to the home/premise/business opposed to FTTC, which is VDSL, which is copper on the last mile or NGN which would bring a full fibre pair to the premise and would be uncontended.

Oh . .and then there is FTTx ... x just stands for any odd subscriber fibre circuit. As in, we couldn't make up our mind.

/M

thank you, most informative