Werewolf XXVII - WESTWORLD

Digital Solitude

sKeith wrote: »

Lets make this clear, I am not attacking mods, I am questioning decisions that were made.

This rebalancing, mid game to extend a game duration, just becuase one side is doing well or very poorly, is not the way games should be run. Maybe i should just play games were bots mod the game, as bots are impartial, and mods feel too invested in their games to allow correct conclusion to play out.

This is not werewolf, its some bastard mechanics game that masquarades as werewolf.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bastard_Mod

A common shorthand definition of a bastard mod game is that it is designed mostly for the moderator's amusement more than that of the players.

Bastard Mod games should not be confused with bad games, which are self-explanatory. However, the line between the two tends to be dangerously thin. If players called your game "bastard" when you were not actively trying to make it one, you should consider getting your next setup looked over by better reviewers.

that's fair sK, I understand your position but everyone has their own definition of how the game should be run. Your look for balance and a level playing field doesn't match with mine personally, which is fun, competitive and to the wire.

Conversions are also bastard going by that page, which are used here a lot and no one takes issue with. While we make bastard games from time to time, I think everyone does it with the players interests at heart, as opposed to mod amusement.

Honestly, if a few spoke up that mod rebalancing wasn't a good idea and people asked we left games alone, I'd stick with that but I think you may be in the minority in favouring equality and balance over keeping it competitive.

Hell even if a few took issue I'd be sure to leave vanilla and live games alone but if I put months into planning the game then I've no qualms about a mid-game rebalance, if players are going to walk away over it ill take a step back but I don't think most would.

Dont leave tho

beakerjoe

The mods take the time to build a game and maintain it over the course of the game.

Hindsight is a great thing but constantly hammering home that they could have made a better choice is doing no one any good.

I enjoyed modding but its a hard slog. Its taking a week out to constantly watch over and referee a game. Its exhusting and I had what you might call an easy game to mod with very little oroblems or errors. I can only imagine the stress when a mistake is made.

Give the mods a break.

I for one love the evolution of games from vanilla to complex and enjoy both.

sKeith

sKeith wrote: »

Thats the point, change is needed.

Make werewolf great again.





Games run for the mods amusement is not fun for players.
Its discourages people from having the will to sign up again.

I'm done replying to you after this.

But no mod signs up for thier own amusement its to give back to the community.

People who are constantly causing fights during and after games are what makes it no fun, you seem be ignorant to this willyfully or otherwise.

The structure that made WW great in the first place is still in place as you said it was once great the only change we have on a constant basis is people like yourself giving out and causing rows after every game.

Im sure you will pay no heed to what im saying and continue, even if its bad for this place so I won't enable you anymore with it at least.

Digital Solitude

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Maybe you should not kick up a fuss about something after nearly every game.

Maybe when you complain once saying that rebalancing should only happen if there is a mistake then when its pointed out to you this is what actually happened don't find something else to give out about.

Maybe you will need to play games with bots instead of Mods cause all the hassle Mods get off you isn't conducive to people signing up to Mod games in future.

I'm not sure if you hyper critical kind of person or that you just like to give out about things but the manner in which you go on isn't the best for the continuity of werewolf in its current form here.

We have seen playing numbers start to drop here and TBH im not surprised as its something people play for fun for the most part but when its just a constant ****show why bother

that's a bit unfair MJ, atleast 5 of us have shared similar opinions to sK about the rebalance in this game.

The Almanac was mentioned and is being discussed, which is 100% with me as its pertinent to how im going to mod in future. that's what hes moved onto and is A-OK with me.

I mentioned this to sK when we met at beers, I read a lot of his posts as accusatory and a little agro, from meeting the fella ive realised he's not like that, and I just read his posts in the wrong tone. don't want to speak for the goson so ill say no more, but try reading as feedback as opposed to giving out.

Digital Solitude

Digital Solitude wrote: »

that's a bit unfair MJ, atleast 5 of us have shared similar opinions to sK about the rebalance in this game.

The Almanac was mentioned and is being discussed, which is 100% with me as its pertinent to how im going to mod in future. that's what hes moved onto and is A-OK with me.

I mentioned this to sK when we met at beers, I read a lot of his posts as accusatory and a little agro, from meeting the fella ive realised he's not like that, and I just read his posts in the wrong tone. don't want to speak for the goson so ill say no more, but try reading as feedback as opposed to giving out.

I would if he didnt changing his point he has come at this from a few angles already after the game he said it was only fair if A happened so it was pointed out A happened so he took it from another angle and another

That for me at least isn't feedback, like others have said and as you will see Ive had no issue with others. Thats just looking for a reason to give out and cause trouble all IMO of course

Digital Solitude

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would if he didnt changing his point he has come at this from a few angles already after the game he said it was only fair if A happened so it was pointed out A happened so he took it from another angle and another

That for me at least isn't feedback, like others have said and as you will see Ive had no issue with others. Thats just looking for a reason to give out and cause trouble all IMO of course

Fair MJ, Im seeing it as the discussion moving to mod rebalance and interference in general, maybe we'll agree to disagree but imo, if a player has strong opinions on a matter from a game, it should be brought up and hashed out, that we can all say our bit and learn from it. sK does take up more afterwards than most ill admit, but its better than saying nothing if you've got something to say.

sKeith

Digital Solitude wrote: »

I mentioned this to sK when we met at beers, I read a lot of his posts as accusatory and a little agro, from meeting the fella ive realised he's not like that, and I just read his posts in the wrong tone. don't want to speak for the goson so ill say no more, but try reading as feedback as opposed to giving out.

Maybe its time to change the Gargamel avatar. I think it might rub people the wrong way. :eek:

Digital Solitude

sKeith wrote: »

Maybe its time to change the Gargamel avatar. I think it might rub people the wrong way. :eek:

Swap with Kitten sure

sKeith

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Swap with Kitten sure

Let's see if this helps

sKeith

Everyone loves to hate Gargamel, and his little kitty tooo (azrael)

beakerjoe

sKeith wrote: »

Everyone loves to hate Gargamel, and his little kitty tooo (azrael)

Go to a live smurfs show, youll hate borh

sKeith

beakerjoe wrote: »

Go to a live smurfs show, youll hate borh

Dont think i'd want to destroy my childhood memories of the smurfs.

Bounty Hunter

A role could be written into some games to help with re-balancing

The Convert: You are a NRV but if any team loses more than half it's members before day 2 you will be converted to that team.


Not that and the wording could change from game to game dependent on number of teams, players etc but maybe a role like that in play in advance would stop people feeling hard done by with re-balancing because it was always a possibility.

Could drop in a few little roles like this in any game if you were worried about having to re-balance later

Village apprentice: You are a NRV but if 4 villagers die in a row at any point you get to share a room with a roled goodie as their apprentice

etc

Kolido

Not a bad idea BH. I think what angered players in this game is a wolf was added but wasnt announced. Tbf, the mods have already explained why.

Maybe we could add a game rule in the op of each game, something along the lines of;

Game Mods reserve the rights to adjust game mechanics and/or roles during live play if they deem it neccessary to preserve the balance of the game.

TheValeyard

Kolido wrote: »

Game Mods reserve the rights to adjust game mechanics and/or roles during live play if they deem it neccessary to preserve the balance of the game.

You'd need to be very careful of that or people would get accused of moving goalposts

Kolido

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

You'd need to be very careful of that or people would get accused of moving goalposts

Isnt that already happening though.

TheValeyard

Kolido wrote: »

Isnt that already happening though.

We have goalposts?

Wolf tactic

sKeith

Reading in the backrooms there is an aligation that there was a post deletion that occured during this game.

sometime around 14/05/2018, 08:58

can the game mods please eleborate on this.

was this reported to them?

Was any request made to the board mods, all very helpful people, i dont have to name them, to figure out if this in fact happened?

Beakerjoe was punished in a game recently for actions regarding editing of a post, that the boards mods could not confirm actually happened at all, beaker came forward and said, i dunnit. and accepted his punishment.

There is an allegation in the backrooms that somebody deleted a post in this game, but the mods have not informed the players of this happening or not, can clarification be made please if this did in fact happen, and what measure were made in respect to this, let me remind people of a post made in the not too distant past,

to set the context, it was something along the line of, what did he do?

sKeith wrote: »

tigger posted
"
---Quote (Originally by partyjungle)---
Why shouldn't I arrow you Barney
---End Quote---
Wait till BH gets up"
as tigger,

then deleted it.

partyjungle wrote: »

This frustrated me the most out of anything. There were two posts deleted. We all know deleting posts are against the rules. It's not like Tigger had lost his head at this stage. He was calm and calculated. Just don't do it ffs. You've blown your cover, deal with it. Tigger mentioned towards the start of the thread that other people sometimes do it, so that makes it okay??? Blatantly ignoring the rules and justifying it.

Now, there is an allegation that somebody else done this, it can be seen in black and white in the wolf backroom. (date and time above should guide you to the post)

Can we please have some transparency on what happened in regard to this.

Thank you,

a concerned player.

MrsFlushdraw

sKeith wrote: »

Reading in the backrooms there is an aligation that there was a post deletion that occured during this game.

sometime around 14/05/2018, 08:58

can the game mods please eleborate on this.

was this reported to them?

Was any request made to the board mods, all very helpful people, i dont have to name them, to figure out if this in fact happened?

Beakerjoe was punished in a game recently for actions regarding editing of a post, that the boards mods could not confirm actually happened at all, beaker came forward and said, i dunnit. and accepted his punishment.

There is an allegation in the backrooms that somebody deleted a post in this game, but the mods have not informed the players of this happening or not, can clarification be made please if this did in fact happen, and what measure were made in respect to this, let me remind people of a post made in the not too distant past,

to set the context, it was something along the line of, what did he do?





Now, there is an allegation that somebody else done this, it can be seen in black and white in the wolf backroom. (date and time above should guide you to the post)

Can we please have some transparency on what happened in regard to this.

Thank you,

a concerned player.

A post was deleted? the only thing I remember about asking about a deleted post was on here when I asked Liam if he deleted his post in the back room where he stated he was Liam. Is that what you are talking about?

As an ordinary person, I can not see anything that was deleted and if it had been deleted we would have seen it.

I really don't know what you are talking about or what you are insituating here. explain?

MrsFlushdraw

The time etc doesnt help either, there are a few rooms. Please take a screen shot and show what you are talking about and maybe we can answer you. But other than that I am in the dark and no clue what you are getting at.


Regards
A Concerned game mod.

MrsFlushdraw

https://i.gyazo.com/14669c07354dff69eab8b7ef0a368cc8.png

https://i.gyazo.com/5e05ddab918056eb0996221d02a2563a.png

If you are referring to this Keith, then I didn't see it. I for one did not read through the wolves ramblings regular and in detail (sorry wolves) and someone should have alerted us by PM if it had happened,

You can't expect us to take action on something we don't know about?

Baggly

sKeith wrote: »

Beakerjoe was punished in a game recently for actions regarding editing of a post, that the boards mods could not confirm actually happened at all, beaker came forward and said, i dunnit. and accepted his punishment.

Speaking as a game mod for that game; this isn't true at all. We didn't need a forum mod to give us info/ need me to look into it with my forum mod abilities. We (game mods and I) had screenshots to prove that a post had been made and changed. We had proof of wrongdoing in the example you have given.

sKeith wrote: »

Now, there is an allegation that somebody else done this, it can be seen in black and white in the wolf backroom. (date and time above should guide you to the post)

Have you any proof that there was any wrongdoing or rule breakage? Does anyone?

MrsFlushdraw

Pter wrote: »

Speaking as a game mod for that game; this isn't true at all. We didn't need a forum mod to give us info/ need me to look into it with my forum mod abilities. We (game mods and I) had screenshots to prove that a post had been made and changed. We had proof of wrongdoing in the example you have given.



Have you any proof that there was any wrongdoing or rule breakage? Does anyone?

It looks like there was a ninja delete. But I didn't see it. I guess you need to be watching the thread 24/7 and hitting F5 like a maniac to catch it all...

Baggly

MrsFlushdraw wrote: »

It looks like there was a ninja delete. But I didn't see it. I guess you need to be watching the thread 24/7 and hitting F5 like a maniac to catch it all...

Unless edits are caught and screengrabbed by someone, i dont know what we can do on that front.

I know yellow or red cardings from game mods during games without proof wouldnt be welcomed by most (well i would assume, i dont know for sure).

Kolido

Pter wrote: »

Unless edits are caught and screengrabbed by someone, i dont know what we can do on that front.

I know yellow or red cardings from game mods during games without proof wouldnt be welcomed by most (well i would assume, i dont know for sure).

Email alerts from Boards for new posts maybe? Would that cover ninja edits?

Baggly

As a quick test there, will you please respond to this message (anyone).

Kolido

Yes, same as the email

Pter

Pter wrote: »

As a quick test there, will you please respond to this message (anyone).

Helooooo

Baggly

Kolido wrote:

Yes, same as the email

Test successful. That is a good way to ensure no editing. I would suggest we have a dummy email account subbed to the game threads. Probably through the we gm account.

MrsFlushdraw

Pter wrote: »

As a quick test there, will you please respond to this message (anyone).

I assume you ninja deleted something?