Leinster v Munster Semi final Build up thread

mangobob

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Leavy was sorely missed at the breakdown, and Fardy when he came on stepped it up a gear.

With the return of those two and Sexton next week I think we had enough rotation today to be able to put it up to Scarlets, but it'll certainly be a battle.

For sure. Leinster showed the template for beating Scarlets, which is to strangle them and dominate the breakdown for 80 mins. That requires a full gas tank. I just hope we have enough left to execute that game plan again in a weeks time.

donfers

Munster worked hard but lots of errors. Still should have won. Referee was as bad of a homer as I have ever seen with the decision at the end capping his performance off. He shouldn’t have been chosen for this game and was the main reason Leinster won

A-Train

budhabob wrote: »

Was he not the tackler?

He was but I’ll take it, it wasn’t the refs first bad call in the match.

ScrubsfanChris

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

it doesnt have to be 10. Munster need a place kicker Not a 10.

If kicker is the only problem I genuinely think Murray should be given the duties full time.

crossman47

Buer wrote: »

Yup. Good of the referee to finish with a wrong call.

Munster should have won that. Their decision making was awful. Lowe was dealing with the box kicks yet they went with them over and over. Leinster looked vulnerable when Munster moved it wide but Munster simply ignored that option.

As a Leinster fan it would have been infuriating to lose that though after that "try".

The trouble for Munster was they made too many mistakes when they moved it. How many forward passes, passes to touch had they? Should have won is no good if you can,t do the basics.

ScrubsfanChris

donfers wrote: »

Munster worked hard but lots of errors. Still should have won. Referee was as bad of a homer as I have ever seen with the decision at the end capping his performance off. He shouldn’t have been chosen for this game and was the main reason Leinster won

Even my glasses aren’t that red tinted :pac:

mangobob

donfers wrote: »

Munster worked hard but lots of errors. Still should have won. Referee was as bad of a homer as I have ever seen with the decision at the end capping his performance off. He shouldn’t have been chosen for this game and was the main reason Leinster won

The main reason Leinster won out there was poor Munster decision making and execution, not the ref. The "try" against the post was dubious to say the least. No clear camera angle showed it being cleanly grounded against the posts, and the only shots we could see show a Leinster defender getting hands in front of the ball. If you cant see a clear grounding you cant award it.

So both the try and the penalty at the end were poor decisions from the officials. Ref was poor for both sides today.

Flincher

Buer wrote: »

budhabob wrote: »

A-Train wrote: »

Yes go on Max Deegan

Was he not the tackler?

Yup. Good of the referee to finish with a wrong call.

Munster should have won that. Their decision making was awful. Lowe was dealing with the box kicks yet they went with them over and over. Leinster looked vulnerable when Munster moved it wide but Munster simply ignored that option.

As a Leinster fan it would have been infuriating to lose that though after that "try".

I didn't think it was a try either, but one of the Leinster hands involved was Healy's, who was part of the ruck, so there's an argument for a penalty try and yellow if the try wasn't given.

As a Munster fan my overriding emotion at the minute is frustration with calls that went against us, but if the score went the other way, there are more than enough reasons for Leinster to feel aggrieved. Just a shocking display of officiating all round.

Refereeing aside, I thought we defended well and had more than enough possession to score more points than we did. One we left behind us.

The Lost Sheep

donfers wrote: »

Munster worked hard but lots of errors. Still should have won. Referee was as bad of a homer as I have ever seen with the decision at the end capping his performance off. He shouldn’t have been chosen for this game and was the main reason Leinster won

Munster didnt win as not good enough or not clever enough.
Why shouldnt a welsh ref have been chosen? It was so far from the list of things that Leinster won...
Munster had more than enough possession and didnt do enough with it. They let themselves down on plenty of occasions

Clegg

Thought Zebo was poor. Tried very, very hard but forced too many of his passed and killed momentum.

vetinari

Yeah, poor finish to his career at Munster.

Held onto the ball too long at times.
His wild pass into touch set up the scrum penalty that won the game for Leinster.

Burkie1203

donfers wrote: »

Munster worked hard but lots of errors. Still should have won. Referee was as bad of a homer as I have ever seen with the decision at the end capping his performance off. He shouldn’t have been chosen for this game and was the main reason Leinster won

Homer? He should have sent Kleyn off but didn't.

Clegg

Also once again Munster's play with ball in hand let them down. They have some excellent outside backs but don't know how to use them.

Flipper22

vetinari wrote: »

****s sake, bull**** at the end by the ref.

Deegan was the tackler and had no release whatsover. Should have been a penalty to Munster.

On the other hand, I can't see how the TMO could have a clear grounding for the try just before..

Buer

donfers wrote: »

Munster worked hard but lots of errors. Still should have won. Referee was as bad of a homer as I have ever seen with the decision at the end capping his performance off. He shouldn’t have been chosen for this game and was the main reason Leinster won

Referee was bad but in no way can anyone say he favoured any one team. A homer doesn't give a yellow when the other officials are suggesting he looks at the footage again. A homer doesn't go to the TMO for a ball that clearly isn't grounded and no player claims it is. A homer doesn't ignore multiple players being offside in phase play.

He was poor but he was poor for both sides.

cameramonkey

Larbre34 wrote: »

Really? Considering fatigue and mileage i thought the eked out the win well. Munster made bad choices.

I am a Leinster supporter. That game was a lot closer than it should have been.

The Munster backs were useless and kept making the wrong decisions , Murray was kicking the ball away at every opportunity.

Leinsters season has been about building pressure on the opposition, keeping ball and then scoring when that pressure overwhelmed the opposition.Today there was none of that they looked very rusty, lost a few line outs and made too many mistake. Munster out scored Leinster when they were down to 14.

Muster could easliy have won it, Leinster were very lucky to get the victory.

I would be very unhappy if I was a Munster supporter, they have quality gaps all over the field but without a new 10 they will win nothing.

If Leinster play like that against the Scarlets they will be beaten out the door.

Former Former

When an Irish team loses, the ref gets dogs abuse. In an interpro, the poor bastard doesn't stand a chance.

His actual performance is irrelevant.

thomond2006

Was the Munster try in the next legit? It looked short on the replay.

Buer

Clegg wrote: »

Thought Zebo was poor. Tried very, very hard but forced too many of his passed and killed momentum.

Some good moments but some very poor too which sums his season up. The mess up after Murray's first half break was infuriating. It must have been 6 on 3 outside him but he set off on a diagonal slant that took up all the space before flinging a 50/50 pass into touch.

That was a massive let off for Leinster. On the evidence of the last 6 months, Munster are as well working on their other back three players. Conway has left Zebo miles behind at this stage.

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Was the Munster try in the next legit? It looked short on the replay.

Wasn't a try. Grobler's response alone was a strong indication before the footage was replayed. He appeared frustrated with the outcome of his pick and go.

Squatter

cameramonkey wrote: »

I would be very unhappy if I was a Munster supporter, they have quality gaps all over the field but without a new 10 they will win nothing.

It's hard to beat a team made up of lots of quality gaps!

Eod100

Well played Leinster. They weren't at their best but Munster weren't either. Closer than. Most people thought

Flincher

thomond2006 wrote: »

Was the Munster try in the next legit? It looked short on the replay.

No, but penalty try for me. Healy's arm ensured he was short, and Healy was sitting on his arse in the ruck.

prawnsambo

Flincher wrote: »

No, but penalty try for me. Healy's arm ensured he was short, and Healy was sitting on his arse in the ruck.

What's your law reference here? Once the ball is out, the ruck is over. He can't score a try if the ball is still in the ruck.

Burkie1203

webels wrote: »

No release from Deegan but Leinster better on the day. Bench was the big diffetence in the end. Good luck in the final.

Stander won a penalty mid way through the first half in exactly the same fashion. IT was on Conan when his shorts came down when he broke from a maul. So the ref was consistent there.

The Kleyn incident was bottled with the not clear and obvious cop out but they can award a try that's not clear and obvious. So the really big calls certainly didn't go Leinsters way by any means.

mangobob

Buer wrote: »

Wasn't a try. Grobler's response alone was a strong indication before the footage was replayed. He appeared frustrated with the outcome of his pick and go.

Exactly. The body language from the Munster players, especially Grobler, suggested it was not a try.

vetinari

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Stander won a penalty mid way through the first half in exactly the same fashion. IT was on Conan when his shorts came down when he broke from a maul. So the ref was consistent there.

The Kleyn incident was bottled with the not clear and obvious cop out but they can award a try that's not clear and obvious. So the really big calls certainly didn't go Leinsters way by any means.

Kleyn could have definitely been a red I agree.
Not sure why Leinster fans are focused on the try.
Should have been a penalty try and yellow if it wasn't.

I'll have to go back and look at the Stander penalty.
The Deegan one at the end was pretty blatant though.
And it would have given Munster a kickable penalty to win the game.

shootermacg

Well that's that for another year, good luck on the double Leinster.

shootermacg

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

it doesnt have to be 10. Munster need a place kicker Not a 10.

Very good point!

wp_rathead

prawnsambo wrote: »

What's your law reference here? Once the ball is out, the ruck is over. He can't score a try if the ball is still in the ruck.

he'd be in an offside position no? hindmost foot of the ruck is the offside line?

thomond2006

Fingers crossed for JOD. He left the ground in a knee brace.

shootermacg

thomond2006 wrote: »

Fingers crossed for JOD. He left the ground in a knee brace.

Was Furlong involved for that? I'd like to see that again.

prawnsambo

wp_rathead wrote: »

he'd be in an offside position no? hindmost foot of the ruck is the offside line?

Once the ball is out, the ruck is over. No hindmost foot. If he's already part of the ruck, the hindmost foot doesn't apply to him. It applies to players joining the ruck or defending behind the ruck.

budhabob

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

it doesnt have to be 10. Munster need a place kicker Not a 10.

This is actually a good pov. Keatley and JJ are actually decent players, good distributers, decent tacklers, not bad with ball in hand, just really inconsistent kickers. Either Murray or scannell would look to have better heads for it

Deusexmachina

Interesting match. There is a very significant gap between Leinsters first team and their back up team. All the talk of 'strength in depth' is overblown. We have depth but the strength gets diluted pretty quickly. We looked average today.

Munster played the more ambitious rugby but their execution was poor. Murray is the most over hyped player in Irish rugby. He is smart, has a great pass and is a good defender. But he boots the leather off the ball far too often. He kicks away valuable possession. Munster really threatened with ball in hand (particularly Earls, Zebo and Conway) but Murray kept them out of the game too often by kicking to Lowe.

Leinster look tired. However, hopefully they will be fully locked and loaded next week and will have too much for Scarlets.

budhabob

The kicking is a team tactic, with both Munster and Ireland. Not really Murray's fault, but his execution has been off the last month

Burkie1203

vetinari wrote: »

Kleyn could have definitely been a red I agree.
Not sure why Leinster fans are focused on the try.
Should have been a penalty try and yellow if it wasn't.

I'll have to go back and look at the Stander penalty.
The Deegan one at the end was pretty blatant though.
And it would have given Munster a kickable penalty to win the game.

Well Leinster should have had a kickable penalty in the first half so if Deegans one was blatant. So the ref was consistent.

Glad for the win but I thought Leinster were quite poor. The pack just didn't create a platform. The Euro cup draw was about as hard as it gets so probably deserved a bit of luck this time to play such an average team in the league SF. Scarlets would have won that game comfortably.

Pepp1989

From being at the game thought both teams were reckless and off their feet at breakdown throughout. Saw some neck rolls too that were missed.

Munster don't have the same depth and it shows. Lost dominance at scrum time and a few turn over penalties when Ryan got tired.

Eod100

Ayaan Refined Podiatry wrote: »

Glad for the win but I thought Leinster were quite poor. The pack just didn't create a platform. The Euro cup draw was about as hard as it gets so probably deserved a bit of luck this time to play such an average team in the league SF. Scarlets would have won that game comfortably.

As in Leinster's pool? It might have been tough on paper but reality is none of their opposition played to their potential. If Munster are so average than surely questions around Leinster to only scrape a 1 point win?

Burkie1203

Eod100 wrote: »

As in Leinster's pool? It might have been tough on paper but reality is none of their opposition played to their potential. If Munster are so average than surely questions around Leinster to only scrape a 1 point win?

Not really. Raft of changes a week after a european cup final win. A win today was all that mattered

prawnsambo

Eod100 wrote: »

As in Leinster's pool? It might have been tough on paper but reality is none of their opposition played to their potential. If Munster are so average than surely questions around Leinster to only scrape a 1 point win?

That's complete rubbish. Exeter put in two very good performances and were winning at half time in the RDS. The reality is that Leinster did their homework and put a game plan in place to negate their opposition's strengths.



Laughable nonsense.

Clegg

Eod100 wrote: »

Ayaan Refined Podiatry wrote: »

Glad for the win but I thought Leinster were quite poor. The pack just didn't create a platform. The Euro cup draw was about as hard as it gets so probably deserved a bit of luck this time to play such an average team in the league SF. Scarlets would have won that game comfortably.

As in Leinster's pool? It might have been tough on paper but reality is none of their opposition played to their potential. If Munster are so average than surely questions around Leinster to only scrape a 1 point win?

Wut?

Montpellier finished top of the French league and Saracens and Scarlets are in the final if their respective leagues.

Leinster had one of the hardest cup runs in recent memory.

Bogwoppit

prawnsambo wrote: »

That's complete rubbish. Exeter put in two very good performances and were winning at half time in the RDS. The reality is that Leinster did their homework and put a game plan in place to negate their opposition's strengths.



Laughable nonsense.

Absolutely, don’t forget they beat Saracens and scarlets off the park.

Eod100

Clegg wrote: »

Wut?

Montpellier finished top of the French league and Saracens and Scarlets are in the final if their respective leagues.

Leinster had one of the hardest cup runs in recent memory.

That why I specifically said on paper

prawnsambo

Eod100 wrote: »

That why I specifically said on paper

And yet none of those teams fell below those standards throughout their league campaigns. Montpellier are in the last four in the Top14 playoffs, Glasgow made the last four in the Pro 14, Exeter are currently trouncing theiir way to the final. Sarcens have already done so and Scarlets are in the final against Leinster. Your paper seems to be matching reality. Wonder how they managed to underperform in those specific matches against Leinster. :rolleyes:

bilston

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Interesting match. There is a very significant gap between Leinsters first team and their back up team. All the talk of 'strength in depth' is overblown. We have depth but the strength gets diluted pretty quickly. We looked average today.

Munster played the more ambitious rugby but their execution was poor. Murray is the most over hyped player in Irish rugby. He is smart, has a great pass and is a good defender. But he boots the leather off the ball far too often. He kicks away valuable possession. Munster really threatened with ball in hand (particularly Earls, Zebo and Conway) but Murray kept them out of the game too often by kicking to Lowe.

Leinster look tired. However, hopefully they will be fully locked and loaded next week and will have too much for Scarlets.

Surely the fact Leinster won shows they do have plenty of depth?

Murray is a class act. I thought he was good today. His box kicks were streets ahead of McGrath's.

wp_rathead

Eod100 wrote: »

As in Leinster's pool? It might have been tough on paper but reality is none of their opposition played to their potential. If Munster are so average than surely questions around Leinster to only scrape a 1 point win?

maybe because they didn't play to their potential..?

Eod100

prawnsambo wrote: »

And yet none of those teams fell below those standards throughout their league campaigns. Montpellier are in the last four in the Top14 playoffs, Glasgow made the last four in the Pro 14, Exeter are currently trouncing theiir way to the final. Sarcens have already done so and Scarlets are in the final against Leinster. Your paper seems to be matching reality. Wonder how they managed to underperform in those specific matches against Leinster. :rolleyes:

It's not a dig at Leinster. They were unquestionably the best team in Europe . Think the idea that they had some pool of death because pedigree of opposition in pool didn't quite live up to reality. Well yeah but that's assuming domestic form mirrors form in Europe which it obvious doesn't.

Heres Johnny

Exeter were as good as they could have been in the pool and made life tough.
Montpellier disappointed a bit and Glasgow were a bit below par but every one knows they're a good team.