What's the story with busking permits?

pure.conya

pure.conya wrote: »

Have you ever tried playing an electric guitar without an amp? tis a sad sight

You don’t busk with an electric guitar. just like you don’t busk with a grand piano. A bad tradesman blames his tools. Bad musicians blame their instruments.

And regarding the gent who busks properly but has Downs Syndrome. What good would it do anyone to put him off the street?

inisboffin

Deleted User wrote: »

You don’t busk with an electric guitar. just like you don’t busk with a grand piano. A bad tradesman blames his tools. Bad musicians blame their instruments.

And regarding the gent who busks properly but has Downs Syndrome. What good would it do anyone to put him off the street?

Why do you get to decide what a busker should play?

And rubbish about a bad tradesman and that line. Wait until you have heard a really bad bagpiper to say that. No amp needed there.

I think the point being made about the fiddle player was that both them and the other musician who uses a backing track have a disability, and it is unfair to ban one of them because of what he plays.

inisboffin

Mars Bar wrote: »

I have a degree in Music Technology and play the guitar and the drums.

Well no more drum kits EVER on the streets of Galway, day or night, band or no band.

All children's theatre is effectively banned as no circle acts before 6.

inisboffin

flazio wrote: »

Electric guitars don't belong on a busking street anyway, it's all about the acoustic atmosphere.
From what I've seen, ring performers are moving over to Eyre Square and are still drawing in the crowds.
In my opinion busking should be a little more intimate, not loud and brash and therefore I'd like to see how the new regulations are given a chance to change the atmosphere in Galway.

I don't know where you are getting this about 'ring' performers (and by the way circle acts are ANY act, puppeteers, dancers etc that stop a crowd), sure the bye laws won't come in until September, and they were only voted on Monday, so nobody has moved anywhere.

They should have gone with the code of conduct, there is no way the Gardaí can police this, nor do they even want to.

Mrs OBumble

inisboffin wrote: »

I think the point being made about the fiddle player was that both them and the other musician who uses a backing track have a disability, and it is unfair to ban one of them because of what he plays.

Exactly.

I do know fiddle-guy's name and some of his story. But I'm not using it here 'cos he hasn't had it in the newspaper in the same way. He's a better musician than most people with DS, for sure, but he's certainly not good - he totally murders tunes and has major issues with tone. If he didn't have a visible disability he would make nothing at all.

Jody's act is as much theatrics as it is singing, and he's a far better performer overall, even though some don't like his voice. He makes money even though his disability isn't visible - there's none of the patronising "ahh, bless" factor going on. But he's banned because he uses a recorded music.

Deleted User wrote: »

You don’t busk with an electric guitar. just like you don’t busk with a grand piano. A bad tradesman blames his tools. Bad musicians blame their instruments.

And regarding the gent who busks properly but has Downs Syndrome. What good would it do anyone to put him off the street?

If you play electric guitar, why shouldn't you be allowed to busk with it?

Why should Nicole Bleu (apol for spelling!) be prevented from being amplified when she's still quieter amped than Robin or James with their loud male voices and banjos?


I don't think anyone should be put off the streets. Let the roar (well contributions :-) ) of the crowd decide.


It's bollox!

pure.conya

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You don’t busk with an electric guitar. just like you don’t busk with a grand piano. A bad tradesman blames his tools. Bad musicians blame their instruments.

And regarding the gent who busks properly but has Downs Syndrome. What good would it do anyone to put him off the street?

But there's fiddle buskers, whistle players, accordion, bag pipes, sax etc. in Galway, there was even a piano player would pop up outside lynches Castle up to a few years ago.

I never said anything about any buskers with disabilities. I enjoy listening to/watching Jody and the DS lad with his Dad

pure.conya

pure.conya wrote: »

But there's fiddle buskers, whistle players, accordion, bag pipes, sax etc. in Galway, there was even a piano player would pop up outside lynches Castle up to a few years ago.

I never said anything about any buskers with disabilities. I enjoy listening to/watching Jody and the DS lad with his Dad

If you can make it work, then make it work. If you can’t make it work, do something that does. I’m still of the opinion that you can get more buskers on a street with no amps. It’s good for the buskers, and forces them to go without the training wheels. Be Good, and the ampspace will come when punters pay to see you.

inisboffin

inisboffin wrote: »

I don't know where you are getting this about 'ring' performers (and by the way circle acts are ANY act, puppeteers, dancers etc that stop a crowd), sure the bye laws won't come in until September, and they were only voted on Monday, so nobody has moved anywhere.

They should have gone with the code of conduct, there is no way the Gardaan police this, nor do they even want to.

The part about circle acts are targeting a very specific few people. The lads that block the entire entrance to shop street and just run around and clap for one.

inisboffin

Deleted User wrote: »

The part about circle acts are targeting a very specific few people. The lads that block the entire entrance to shop street and just run around and clap for one.

No that's not true. The bye laws were amended. A circle act is now defined as basically any performance for which the audience stop and watch. Including "dance, puppetry, circus and any theatre". Emma the sean nos dancer is defined as a circle act. She is also banned in the day for her recorded music. They changed the wording of the law at the last minute in the council vote from 'lower wattage amps' to 'banning amps'. :mad:

ben.schlomo

Deleted User wrote: »

inisboffin wrote: »

I don't know where you are getting this about 'ring' performers (and by the way circle acts are ANY act, puppeteers, dancers etc that stop a crowd), sure the bye laws won't come in until September, and they were only voted on Monday, so nobody has moved anywhere.

They should have gone with the code of conduct, there is no way the Gardaan police this, nor do they even want to.

The part about circle acts are targeting a very specific few people. The lads that block the entire entrance to shop street and just run around and clap for one.

Great news, talentless gimps constantly blocking the street doing fcuk all. There should be no place for them, the lads with the rotating pull up bar thing or that ilk. I don't think there's any major need for amps pumping out music that's either poor quality or so loud that it's just annoying for anyone working in the area, plenty of talented musicians and performers in the city don't need them.

inisboffin

Deleted User wrote: »

If you can make it work, then make it work. If you can’t make it work, do something that does. I’m still of the opinion that you can get more buskers on a street with no amps. It’s good for the buskers, and forces them to go without the training wheels. Be Good, and the ampspace will come when punters pay to see you.

Busking is the ULTIMATE people paying to see you!

inisboffin

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Great news, talentless gimps constantly blocking the street doing fcuk all. There should be no place for them, the lads with the rotating pull up bar thing or that ilk. I don't think there's any major need for amps pumping out music that's either poor quality or so loud that it's just annoying for anyone working in the area, plenty of talented musicians and performers in the city don't need them.

Is this what you mean by a 'talentless gimp'? I don't think so.

ben.schlomo

inisboffin wrote: »

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Great news, talentless gimps constantly blocking the street doing fcuk all. There should be no place for them, the lads with the rotating pull up bar thing or that ilk. I don't think there's any major need for amps pumping out music that's either poor quality or so loud that it's just annoying for anyone working in the area, plenty of talented musicians and performers in the city don't need them.

Is this what you mean by a 'talentless gimp'? I don't think so.

I don't particularly like her but no I'm not talking about her. I clearly referenced the circle acts at the top of Shop St mentioned in the quoted post. That ok?

inisboffin

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I don't particularly like her but no I'm not talking about her. I clearly referenced the circle acts at the top of Shop St mentioned in the quoted post. That ok?

Yeah. That's the thing though. Baby with the bathwater and all that. Circle acts are now defined to mean dance, theatre, puppetry etc (as well as the lads with the bar yoke, who I agree are not street art. But then again some people apparently love watching others lose money). The new bye law doesn't differentiate between the dancers, the actors, and the bar men.

ben.schlomo

inisboffin wrote: »

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I don't particularly like her but no I'm not talking about her. I clearly referenced the circle acts at the top of Shop St mentioned in the quoted post. That ok?

Yeah. That's the thing though. Baby with the bathwater and all that. Circle acts are now defined to mean dance, theatre, puppetry etc (as well as the lads with the bar yoke, who I agree are not street art. But then again some people apparently love watching others lose money). The new bye law doesn't differentiate between the dancers, the actors, and the bar men.

Doesn't overly bother me, no performer has the right to block any of the streets, making it difficult for anyone else to get by. Plenty manage to create an atmosphere and earn something without blocking the streets completely, more power (pun intended) to them it seems. Amp performers such as your dancer friend can still perform after six.

inisboffin

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Doesn't overly bother me, no performer has the right to block any of the streets, making it difficult for anyone else to get by. Plenty manage to create an atmosphere and earn something without blocking the streets completely, more power (pun intended) to them it seems. Amp performers such as your dancer friend can still perform after six.

Fair enough that it doesn’t bother you. It bothers me and others. For the few that have blocked streets, plenty who don’t are being penalised. The dancer is not my friend although I respect street performers who are good. However anyone performing for kids including her has lost their audience after 6.
I agree that restrictions were needed but they should have left it to that busker code.

ben.schlomo

inisboffin wrote: »

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Doesn't overly bother me, no performer has the right to block any of the streets, making it difficult for anyone else to get by. Plenty manage to create an atmosphere and earn something without blocking the streets completely, more power (pun intended) to them it seems. Amp performers such as your dancer friend can still perform after six.

Fair enough that it doesn’t bother you. It bothers me and others. For the few that have blocked streets, plenty who don’t are being penalised. The dancer is not my friend although I respect street performers who are good. However anyone performing for kids including her has lost their audience after 6.
I agree that restrictions were needed but they should have left it to that busker code.

The code which did nothing to stop circle acts blocking streets? Also I don't think she exclusively performs for kids, any time I walk by it's usually just groups of tourists standing blocking the junction. They'll still be there from 6pm.

inisboffin

ben.schlomo wrote: »

The code which did nothing to stop circle acts blocking streets? Also I don't think she exclusively performs for kids, any time I walk by it's usually just groups of tourists standing blocking the junction. They'll still be there from 6pm.

The code was only made at the end of the summer last year. I think from what you are writing that the biggest issue is the seasonal circle acts. It will take a full two seasons for the code to work, just like changes like this happen in Edinburgh etc.

No you're right Emma performs not exclusively for kids, but it will cut her income enough that she may go elsewhere to make up for that. While she may perform after 6 remember now that it's the same amount of acts now in a 5 hour section (4 hours in winter) as opposed to a 14 hour day.
A fourteen hour day being cut to a five hour day. And within that full day in the summer, if you are sharing spots, you might only get six hours.
Imagine that in terms of jobs. Also the exclusive kids acts are gone now. The little kids are rarely out after 6.

While I agree with you that some of the larger acts abused their place on the street, these bye laws are punishing a much larger community and it will have an impact on more that the buskers.

Peter Keane, who was behind the laws in the first place posted a 'congratulations' type post to himself on his Facebook. There were a couple of 'well done' message followed by a slew of objections. Why they bothered putting these bye laws out for Public Submission, when 80-90% of respondents were against them, is beyond me.

ben.schlomo

inisboffin wrote: »

ben.schlomo wrote: »

The code which did nothing to stop circle acts blocking streets? Also I don't think she exclusively performs for kids, any time I walk by it's usually just groups of tourists standing blocking the junction. They'll still be there from 6pm.

The code was only made at the end of the summer last year. I think from what you are writing that the biggest issue is the seasonal circle acts. It will take a full two seasons for the code to work, just like changes like this happen in Edinburgh etc.

No you're right Emma performs not exclusively for kids, but it will cut her income enough that she may go elsewhere to make up for that. While she may perform after 6 remember now that it's the same amount of acts now in a 5 hour section (4 hours in winter) as opposed to a 14 hour day.
A fourteen hour day being cut to a five hour day. And within that full day in the summer, if you are sharing spots, you might only get six hours.
Imagine that in terms of jobs. Also the exclusive kids acts are gone now. The little kids are rarely out after 6.

While I agree with you that some of the larger acts abused their place on the street, these bye laws are punishing a much larger community and it will have an impact on more that the buskers.

Peter Keane, who was behind the laws in the first place posted a 'congratulations' type post to himself on his Facebook. There were a couple of well done' followed by numerous objections. Why did they bothered putting these bye laws out for Public Submission, when 80-90% of respondents were against them, is beyond me.

Ah yes FB the realm of reasonable comments to council decisions, it's like a cage of rabid anti council dogs. These rules will weed out the unnecessary acts and the rest will be left, no big loss if a couple of loud amp acts are gone and quieter ones remain. I don't see these knock on effects that you're hinting around. There's always going to buskers on the streets, that won't change.

inisboffin

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Ah yes FB the realm of reasonable comments to council decisions, it's like a cage of rabid anti council dogs. These rules will weed out the unnecessary acts and the rest will be left, no big loss if a couple of loud amp acts are gone and quieter ones remain. I don't see these knock on effects that you're hinting around. There's always going to buskers on the streets, that won't change.

As opposed to the pragmatic good sense on boards?
The submissions were put out for public consultation to the general public. I don't know if you have actually been to a Council meeting (I have) but you'd be shocked at the way some of the Councillors talk about the 'public', and while many are sensible, the amount of rubbish and wasted time is astounding. You won't see any knock on effects until at least September, and probably not until next year. The Council still has to go through a bunch of red tape (including translation) of the laws and then they are on 'holidays' for two months so nothing will happen this summer. The amp law has nothing to do with quiet. Bar drum kits, brass bands, bagpipes etc are not banned. Time will tell how this changes our streets, if indeed the laws are not challenged. 2020 will definitely be different.

ben.schlomo

inisboffin wrote: »

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Ah yes FB the realm of reasonable comments to council decisions, it's like a cage of rabid anti council dogs. These rules will weed out the unnecessary acts and the rest will be left, no big loss if a couple of loud amp acts are gone and quieter ones remain. I don't see these knock on effects that you're hinting around. There's always going to buskers on the streets, that won't change.

As opposed to the pragmatic good sense on boards?
The submissions were put out for public consultation to the general public. I don't know if you have actually been to a Council meeting (I have) but you'd be shocked at the way some of the Councillors talk about the 'public', and while many are sensible, the amount of rubbish and wasted time is astounding. You won't see any knock on effects until at least September, and probably not until next year. The Council still has to go through a bunch of red tape (including translation) of the laws and then they are on 'holidays' for two months so nothing will happen this summer. The amp law has nothing to do with quiet. Bar drum kits, brass bands, bagpipes etc are not banned. Time will tell how this changes our streets, if indeed the laws are not challenged. 2020 will definitely be different.

Fb makes boards look like Aristotle and Plato quietly discussing life.

There aren't many brass bands knocking around our main thoroughfares often though are there? As for loud young lads playing sh1t like Ed Sheeran with an amp, yes we have that, in multiple. So hopefully the likes of that go and we are left with talented trad performers, acoustic guitars etc.

Edit: this will also thankfully be the end of those horrific pan pipe peddlers. More good news.

inisboffin

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Fb makes boards look like Aristotle and Plato quietly discussing life.

There aren't many brass bands knocking around our main thoroughfares often though are there? As for loud young lads playing sh1t like Ed Sheeran with an amp, yes we have that, in multiple. So hopefully the likes of that go and we are left with talented trad performers, acoustic guitars etc.

Edit: this will also thankfully be the end of those horrific pan pipe peddlers. More good news.

Ah the hierarchy of souls...:D

You do know there's an unplugged version of the pan pipe lads right? They just double the numbers (I wish I was joking). But some people love them!

Yes, not many brass bands *now* but when busking was restricted in other areas around the world, that's what came in along with pipes and accordion bands. As I said it will be September at the earliest when there is any change but time will tell.

pjohnson

Jaysus the way some go on you'd swear shop street was literally impassable ffs

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Jaysus the way some go on you'd swear shop street was literally impassable ffs

To be fair, there’s times when it was.

inisboffin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To be fair, there’s times when it was.

And it will be still some days. There is no regulation against the giant walking tours that carry umbrellas/flags.

Mrs OBumble

Deleted User wrote: »

To be fair, there’s times when it was.

It's rare though, and usually as as much due to the sheer volume of tourists as buskers. With busking acts, people can usually walk between the crowd and the busker if they really need to get thru. (Not recommended with the fire-jugglers :-) )

Locals know how to dodge around it.

ben.schlomo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

To be fair, there’s times when it was.

It's rare though, and usually as as much due to the sheer volume of tourists as buskers. With busking acts, people can usually walk between the crowd and the busker if they really need to get thru. (Not recommended with the fire-jugglers :-) )

Locals know how to dodge around it.

It's not rare, pretty much every Saturday there's an 'act' outside BTs blocking the entire width of the street. Youll still notice the sellotape they've used to mark their territory days later. Shoppers, tourists, whoever shouldn't be put out just cos these showers decide they own the space. Tourist groups are nowhere near as bad.

ben.schlomo

ben.schlomo wrote: »

It's not rare, pretty much every Saturday there's an 'act' outside BTs blocking the entire width of the street. Youll still notice the sellotape they've used to mark their territory days later. Shoppers, tourists, whoever shouldn't be put out just cos these showers decide they own the space. Tourist groups are nowhere near as bad.

Let's be honest, you're talking about less than 5 seconds of a delay.

Galway has always had a vibrant street entertainment scene and will continue to do so

I look forward to these bylaws being given the same level of regard as all the other city Council bylaws, i.e. None whatsoever

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So he will be put off the street, but Down Syndrome fiddle guy won't be, because he doesn't need an amp.

How's that fair?

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Exactly.

I do know fiddle-guy's name and some of his story. But I'm not using it here 'cos he hasn't had it in the newspaper in the same way. He's a better musician than most people with DS, for sure, but he's certainly not good - he totally murders tunes and has major issues with tone. If he didn't have a visible disability he would make nothing at all.

Wow, you are some piece of hateful work. You have said some pretty shitty things in the past but attacking people with down syndrome is certainly a step-down, even for you.

Way to labelling a whole section of people with your hateful, backwards mentality. I assume that you must be a truly talented musician if you think that people with down syndrome are not good ones.

inisboffin

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow, you are some piece of hateful work. You have said some pretty shitty things in the past but attacking people with down syndrome is certainly a step-down, even for you.

Way to labelling a whole section of people with your hateful, backwards mentality. I assume that you must be a truly talented musician if you think that people with down syndrome are not good ones.

I can see how you read Mrs O's comment with a different slant. I honestly read it differently, and she confirmed that was the meaning. I think it was that it seemed ok to slag off one person with a disability and not another, and if it was down to just artistic merit then an opinion was offered.

I have people that I love with Down's in my life. I can tell you pity doesn't rank high on their list of favourite things. People slag off one person with a disability that's not visible yet are angry when people talk about (their perception of) another's playing.
I am delighted that both these musicians live in a place where they have the freedom to express themselves. Yeah if some think they aren't great then the next act will be along soon. Fair play to both of them I say, whether I rank one over the other or not is immaterial.