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Atheist voting No [See mod note in OP]

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Comments

  • #152
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Pete29 wrote: »
    She consented to the possibility of becoming pregnant by consenting. Condom or not.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-jailed-for-raping-woman-over-refusal-to-wear-condom-1.3425186


  • #153
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    Pete29 wrote: »
    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    I see some women around Ireland shouting and screaming at children. They are not able and the child is not wanted. That child is in for for a terrible life.

    Yet you don't think you have the right to kill them unless they're in the womb.

    I personally think, why make a woman have a child that she in no way wants, and that child is is for a life of torture.

    Is that humane?


  • #154
    Pete29
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Pete29


    CardinalJ wrote: »
    So If I told you that there was a 1% risk of something but there was actually an 80% chance of it, then it's on you?

    Yes, it is still my responsibility, partially in the very least, because I choose to take the action.


  • #155
    ironingbored
    Registered Users Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭ironingbored


    People tend to forget why free, safe and legal abortion was introduced in the majority of developed nations; because women were dying in backstreet abortion clinics and via self-procured terminations. Whether we like it or not, women have always needed to terminate pregnancies. What gets me is the utter hypocrisy of forcing Irish women abroad.

    We can safely say that if little boys had been able to get pregnant, we'd have abortion in Ireland for 70 years. The "we need to support women in pregnancy..." brigade have had 35 years to come up with solutions yet nada. An lo and behold, many of the same people campaigning for a No vote are also against free contraception and comprehensive sex education, two things proven to reduce unintended pregnancies.


  • #156
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    Pete29 wrote: »
    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    I see some women around Ireland shouting and screaming at children. They are not able and the child is not wanted. That child is in for for a terrible life.

    Yet you don't think you have the right to kill them unless they're in the womb.

    I don't think I have the right to kill anyone else's children. I think the mother has the right to decide to advance with her own pregnancy or not.
    Individual choice.
    I decide what is right for me
    They decide what is right for them


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  • #157
    Pete29
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Pete29


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    I personally think, why make a woman have a child that she in no way wants, and that child is is for a life of torture.

    Is that humane?


    How do you decide that person life is destined to be a torture? That life is theirs, they have a right to it and it's up to them how they want to live it.


  • #158
    CardinalJ
    Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭CardinalJ


    Pete29 wrote:
    Yes, it is still my responsibility, partially in the very least, because I choose to take the action.


    So if you have sex at all you are somewhat responsible for any outcome? We are on very different planets.


  • #159
    DickSwiveller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    I'm an atheist and I am not a fan of abortion but I will still be voting yes, because this referendum is about allowing people to make their own choices and not forcing one on them.

    How do people get away with saying something so obviously ridiculous. We force our choices on people all the time. It's called 'Law'


  • #160
    Pete29
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Pete29


    ironingbored wrote: »
    People tend to forget why free, safe and legal abortion was introduced in the majority of developed nations; because women were dying in backstreet abortion clinics and via self-procured terminations. Whether we like it or not, women have always needed to terminate pregnancies. What gets me is the utter hypocrisy of forcing Irish women abroad.

    We can safely say that if little boys had been able to get pregnant, we'd have abortion in Ireland for 70 years. The "we need to support women in pregnancy..." brigade have had 35 years to come up with solutions yet nada. An lo and behold, many of the same people campaigning for a No vote are also against free contraception and comprehensive sex education, two things proven to reduce unintended pregnancies.

    As a member of that pro-life bridge I can tell you that's completely false.


  • #161
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Pete29 wrote: »
    Yes, it is still my responsibility, partially in the very least, because I choose to take the action.

    So if you got an STI from having unprotected sex, you wouldn’t take or seek treatment, I’m assuming? Because you knew the consequences and the risks?


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  • #162
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    Pete29 wrote: »
    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    I personally think, why make a woman have a child that she in no way wants, and that child is is for a life of torture.

    Is that humane?


    How do you decide that person life is destined to be a torture? That life is theirs, they have a right to it and it's up to them how they want to live it.

    I know people. I know someone who was a child of rape. I saw his mother brutalise him as a child. I see the damage done to him now.

    I see other mothers scream shout at and abuse their children, and I think what on earth is the point of a child being born into a life like that.

    If she is not able, she should have the opportunity to not continue with it.


  • #163
    Pete29
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Pete29


    CardinalJ wrote: »
    So if you have sex at all you are somewhat responsible for any outcome? We are on very different planets.

    Yes, of course. You think you're not responsible for any of the negative or unwanted consequences of your actions?


  • #164
    sally cinnamon89
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 657 ✭✭✭sally cinnamon89


    Pete29 wrote: »
    As a member of that pro-life bridge I can tell you that's completely false.

    Explain yourself?


  • #165
    Pete29
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Pete29


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    So if you got an STI from having unprotected sex, you wouldn’t take or seek treatment, I’m assuming? Because you knew the consequences and the risks?


    I reject the premise of your analogy. Human fetuses are not a disease.


  • #166
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    Anyway lets see how the referendum goes.


  • #167
    ironingbored
    Registered Users Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭ironingbored


    Pete29 wrote: »
    As a member of that pro-life bridge I can tell you that's completely false.

    What is exactly false?

    1) Reasons for introducing legal abortion?
    2) Women dying in back street abortions?
    3) Many pro-lifers against free contraception & comprehensive sex ed.


  • #168
    CardinalJ
    Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭CardinalJ


    Pete29 wrote:
    Yes, of course. You think you're not responsible for any of the negative or unwanted consequences of your actions?

    No I dont. But I think if my actions are based on information I have every reason to believe to be true, then I shouldn't be persecuted as a result. Plus, the condom example is the negative or unwanted consequence of someone elses actions.

    People cross the road every day assuming that everyone driving is sober, it doesnt mean they should just accept it when they get hit by a drunk because there is a small chance of it happening.


  • #169
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Just another referendum thread where it will quickly descend into a free for all in nastiness and insult. Would it not be better just to merge it with the others. How many threads are needed?


  • #170
    Pete29
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Pete29


    ironingbored wrote: »
    What is exactly false?

    1) Reasons for introducing legal abortion?
    2) Women dying in back street abortions?
    3) Many pro-lifers against free contraception & comprehensive sex ed.


    Being against contraception and sex ed (actual sex ed, not "there are multiple genders-ology")


  • #171
    MightyMandarin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭MightyMandarin


    ironingbored wrote: »
    People tend to forget why free, safe and legal abortion was introduced in the majority of developed nations; because women were dying in backstreet abortion clinics and via self-procured terminations. Whether we like it or not, women have always needed to terminate pregnancies. What gets me is the utter hypocrisy of forcing Irish women abroad.

    We can safely say that if little boys had been able to get pregnant, we'd have abortion in Ireland for 70 years. The "we need to support women in pregnancy..." brigade have had 35 years to come up with solutions yet nada. An lo and behold, many of the same people campaigning for a No vote are also against free contraception and comprehensive sex education, two things proven to reduce unintended pregnancies.

    I was kinda following your argument until you trotted out that garbage.

    The fact is 'we' cannot 'safely say' anything like that at all because it's a hypothetical scenario and you (as well as many on the 'Yes' side) are under the delusion impression that this is a men vs women debate, when it simply is not.


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  • #172
    Pete29
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Pete29


    CardinalJ wrote: »
    No I dont. But I think if my actions are based on information I have every reason to believe to be true, then I shouldn't be persecuted as a result. Plus, the condom example is the negative or unwanted consequence of someone elses actions.

    People cross the road every day assuming that everyone driving is sober, it doesnt mean they should just accept it when they get hit by a drunk because there is a small chance of it happening.

    Not being allowed to abort an innocent human life, conceived consensually, is not persecution. It's accepting the responsibilty of your actions. The main biological function of sex is reproduction, that is the only information that is relevant. Accepting any risk of pregnancy is accepting the possibility of that outcome. You rolled the dice. You lost.

    The road/sober analogy doesn't translate. We walk across the road knowing that not being hit by is the main function of crossing the road. Becoming pregnant is the main function of sex, which we risk when we do it.


  • #173
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    Sigh, this referndum.

    Me and 2 friends, have been friends since we were 12 years old.

    2 of us pro choice
    1 of us pro life.

    The pro life one has said that she is ashamed she ever knew us and wants nothing to do with us ever again.

    The main thing about this referendum is it should have been held earlier, instead of everyone waiting months and it driving everyone into a tizzy.

    People are falling out over it.


  • #174
    Pete29
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Pete29


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    I know people. I know someone who was a child of rape. I saw his mother brutalise him as a child. I see the damage done to him now.

    I see other mothers scream shout at and abuse their children, and I think what on earth is the point of a child being born into a life like that.

    If she is not able, she should have the opportunity to not continue with it.

    So if a child is born into a wealthy family, but by bad luck ends up with alcoholic parents who beat him/her, then that child should have been killed before birth?


  • #175
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    What saddens me is when I am thinking of abortion, I am always thinking of it from a humane reason. To save people pain.

    To stop the hurt of the women who are suffering with an illness cant carry a pregnancy, to stop the suffering of the mother and baby when the baby is not going to live outside the womb.

    To not bring a baby into awful circumstances where it is going to be abused for 18 years.

    I am never thinking oh great lets kill a baby!

    And yet I am called a killer and a murderer by people.

    This is really a sh"t referendum. How many more bl#ody days is it.


  • #176
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    Pete29 wrote: »
    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    I know people. I know someone who was a child of rape. I saw his mother brutalise him as a child. I see the damage done to him now.

    I see other mothers scream shout at and abuse their children, and I think what on earth is the point of a child being born into a life like that.

    If she is not able, she should have the opportunity to not continue with it.

    So if a child is born into a wealthy family, but by bad luck ends up with alcoholic parents who beat him/her, then that child should have been killed before birth?

    You are sentencing someone to be beaten up for 18 years.


  • #177
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    The Specialist wrote: »
    It's not a human life, it's a foetus. Typical emotionally maniplulative bull**** from the No side because you really don't have anything else to hang your arguements on.

    Ok, it's not a human life...it's a foetus.
    What type of foetus is it ?


  • #178
    Pete29
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Pete29


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    You are sentencing someone to be beaten up for 18 years.


    Only if you choose to walk by and let it happen.


  • #179
    Sintend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 44 ✭Sintend


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    You are sentencing someone to be beaten up for 18 years.
    No he isn't! Child abuse is an offence in this country and anyone caught abusing children in any form should have the book thrown at them!


  • #180
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    Sintend wrote: »
    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    You are sentencing someone to be beaten up for 18 years.
    No he isn't! Child abuse is an offence in this country and anyone caught abusing children in any form should have the book thrown at them!

    When did you last intervene in a child abuse case.?
    It goes on everywhere, people do nothing


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  • #181
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    I see some women around Ireland shouting and screaming at children. They are not able and the child is not wanted. That child is in for for a terrible life.

    There are many wanted children whose mammies lose the rag with them from time to time and likewise there are many women who were horrified to be pregnant but whose child has a great life, my nephew is one of those. You really can't tell in early pregnancy which mammies are going to be "shouting and screaming at children". And besides in every country even where abortion is allowed same happens so I'm afraid that proves that the mamas that "are not able" as per your statement aren't necessarily the ones that have abortions anyway.


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