Short term lets now half of Dublin rental market, anti landlord measures bite back

beauf

psinno wrote: »

People throw daft reports around a lot but they don't really say anything about the state of the whole market. All they ever cover is the advertised price of the currently advertised properties.

Maybe the link is broken, when I read it it also refers to historical data and how it compares...

... Any alternatives?

Raucous

Raucous wrote: »

Yeah we should all feel sorry for the hordes of landlords bleeding our country dry. Who knew they had no choice and were forced down the laziest and most parasitic career path of them all?

You don't know much about the business of letting property, that's fairly obvious from this nonsensical post.

Billy86

Since we have landlords in this thread, can I ask what the craic is with the insistence on absurdly hideous paint jobs, wallpaper, furnishing layouts etc in so, so many Irish properties? It's quite bizarre but also comes across as quite a lack of care on the part of said landlords when you see it. You see a bit of thati n all countries, but in Ireland it's more 'the norm' than the exception in my experience.

The_Conductor

Billy86 wrote: »

Since we have landlords in this thread, can I ask what the craic is with the insistence on absurdly hideous paint jobs, wallpaper, furnishing layouts etc in so, so many Irish properties? It's quite bizarre but also comes across as quite a lack of care on the part of said landlords when you see it. You see a bit of thati n all countries, but in Ireland it's more 'the norm' than the exception in my experience.

I agree with you.
However- the alternate- which is the case in a lot of European countries- is a property is let entirely unfurnished, with a bland neutral paint job- and the tenant is expected to hand it back in an identical manner (a lot of countries insist on 3 month's rent as a deposit to pay to repaint properties that tenants don't properly repaint- and some countries (Switzerland and some German states) have special agencies to inspect properties before they are handed back to landlords (good luck expecting the RTB to do this!!!)

I think there is a lot to be said for an entirely unfurnished property- with a bland paint job- and the tenant can furnish it as they choose- and paint it to their hearts content- the only caveat being they have to return it in the same bland condition they received it in?

Billy86

The_Conductor wrote: »

I think there is a lot to be said for an entirely unfurnished property- with a bland paint job- and the tenant can furnish it as they choose- and paint it to their hearts content- the only caveat being they have to return it in the same bland condition they received it in?

I would personally be massively in favour of that. Some would complain about self-furnishing but you can kit a place out very cheaply if you are a first time renter and built it up; after that it's just a matter of moving stuff - I'm off to Canada permanently at the end of the year and have set aside €2,300 of my budget for furnishing the place decently because of this as all properties there are unfurnished (with the very odd exception) and it's a win-win all around I reckon.

Landlords don't have to pay for furnishing, which I can only imagine some of the 'worse' tenants really don't help with (e.g. coming in and seeing beds broken, couches ripped, TV screens scratched etc) - the result of this is a lot of stitched up, ill-fitting, or simply shoddy looking furnishings around Ireland because changing that stuff over can't be that cheap. It's also an overhead that is understandably passed on to tenants I would reckon, and a general pain in the arse to source etc. To only have to ensure the kitchen appliances, plumbing and electricity are working for a changeover, as well as the walls and floors being in good knick (only a glance as the place is bare).

Tenants initially "lose out" on their first place due to needing to get the stuff, but after that they can fill the place how they want. I like open space and a very minimal look in the sitting room for example (couch, coffee table and computer/projector) so many places in Dublin are almost an automatic no-go from the start for me, esp as the projector needs a flat wall. If someone wants something way more vibrant or 'country home' type of look, they can bring that with them and so on. If you check out the 'funny houses to rent' thread, a massive amount of them are down to furniture and/or wallpaper

Is there a regulation for furnishing in Ireland, actually? Just thinking of it, I'm not sure I've ever seen an unfurnished apartment on DAFT, etc. It just seems to me that in this day and age (e.g. even if I have none, I can hope on Ikea, get all my furniture and have it delivered the day I move in rather than the effort involved for doing likewise in the 90s or earlier must have been), passing that expense on to the consumer/tenant might be a better model for all involved.

Carlos Orange

beauf wrote: »

Maybe the link is broken, when I read it it also refers to historical data and how it compares...

... Any alternatives?

They have historical data but that doesn't mean they cover the whole market. I rented my last apartment for 7 years. Daft would have the price it was advertised at but they won't know what I actually paid (buyers market at the time). They won't know the rent was raised once,when or to what. Or whether it was occupied by 1,2 or 3 people.


You can see the data from the census. Being the census it can be kinda old but it will cover the whole market.

http://census.cso.ie/P1map32/

Or from the RTB. Not really sure what the collection methodology for that is.

http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=RIA02&PLanguage=0

beauf

You are right but I don't see how that makes any difference to the general trend.

the_syco

Billy86 wrote: »

I'm off to Canada permanently at the end of the year and have set aside €2,300 of my budget for furnishing the place decently because of this as all properties there are unfurnished (with the very odd exception) and it's a win-win all around I reckon.

Off topic, but I'm in Toronto atm. You pay first and last before you move in, any deposit aside from that is illegal. They'll want a credit check and references, so as you're just moving over, you'll be getting some random hole for the first year, unless you move in with a mate. You'll get roughly $1.40 for every €1. If going to Toronto, join the Facebook page "Irish and New in Toronto!", or there's probably similar pages for wherever you're going. Be wary of furniture; bed bugs are an issue in Toronto. In saying that, people are always leaving, so once you get the bed (I got my frame from Ikea), most other things can be bought cheaply via said Facebook pages when people go back to Ireland.

After being here two years, I prefer unfurnished. My own bed, my own stuff, and no tat. Less interaction with the landlord is needed.

Billy86 wrote: »

Is there a regulation for furnishing in Ireland, actually?

Four ring cooker, fridge/freezer, and a sink. Also, bath/shower, toilet and sink. Aside from that, I don't think you have to include anything.

vmb

the_syco wrote: »

Off topic, but I'm in Toronto atm. You pay first and last before you move in, any deposit aside from that is illegal. They'll want a credit check and references, so as you're just moving over, you'll be getting some random hole for the first year, unless you move in with a mate. You'll get roughly $1.40 for every €1. If going to Toronto, join the Facebook page "Irish and New in Toronto!", or there's probably similar pages for wherever you're going. Be wary of furniture; bed bugs are an issue in Toronto. In saying that, people are always leaving, so once you get the bed (I got my frame from Ikea), most other things can be bought cheaply via said Facebook pages when people go back to Ireland.

After being here two years, I prefer unfurnished. My own bed, my own stuff, and no tat. Less interaction with the landlord is needed.


Four ring cooker, fridge/freezer, and a sink. Also, bath/shower, toilet and sink. Aside from that, I don't think you have to include anything.

At least:
Laundry, food preparation and food storage
Regulation 7 requires private landlords to provide access to:

A washing machine
A clothes-dryer if the dwelling does not have a private garden or yard
They must also provide facilities for cooking and for the hygienic storage of food, to include the following:

4-ring hob with oven and grill
Cooker hood or extractor fan
Fridge and freezer, or a fridge-freezer
Microwave oven
Kitchen cupboards that are suitable and adequate for storing food
Sink with mains water supply, hot water and draining area

More info:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

Cookie_Monster

vmb wrote: »

At least:
Laundry, food preparation and food storage
Regulation 7 requires private landlords to provide access to:

A washing machine
A clothes-dryer if the dwelling does not have a private garden or yard
They must also provide facilities for cooking and for the hygienic storage of food, to include the following:

4-ring hob with oven and grill
Cooker hood or extractor fan
Fridge and freezer, or a fridge-freezer
Microwave oven
Kitchen cupboards that are suitable and adequate for storing food
Sink with mains water supply, hot water and draining area

More info:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

most of which has no valid reason to be listed IMO and should be on the tenant to provide, with the exception of sink, cooker and kitchen cupboards, ie the built in stuff.

Similarly a heating unit in every rooms is a questionable requirement.

handlemaster

Raucous wrote: »

Yeah we should all feel sorry for the hordes of landlords bleeding our country dry. Who knew they had no choice and were forced down the laziest and most parasitic career path of them all?

The sound of the uneducated bitterness. Who should provide housing to people who want to rent ?

Carlos Orange

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Similarly a heating unit in every rooms is a questionable requirement.

You think heating is an unreasonable requirement for housing?

The_Conductor

handlemaster wrote: »

The sound of the uneducated bitterness. Who should provide housing to people who want to rent ?

No-one should supply it, of course. Once you turn 18, you should get a little package in the post- keys to your own home, a car, a medical card and a nice lumpsum in cash to get you going in life. No-one should rent- having your own forever home is a God-given right- and anyone who tells you otherwise deserves to be destroyed.

Billy86

psinno wrote: »

You think heating is an unreasonable requirement for housing?

I think it's in all rooms that they have a gripe with. Which is fair enough if it requires the likes of bathrooms, those random 5x5ft glorified storage rooms you see sometimes, and so on. Houses and apartments need to be heated, but not every room.

Also in many places you cover your own bills for water, heating, etc (in houses at least, less so in apartments as it's probably harder to track). I'm not sure in Ireland where both landlords I have had covered and built into the rent cost.

Billy86

the_syco wrote: »

Off topic, but I'm in Toronto atm. You pay first and last before you move in, any deposit aside from that is illegal. They'll want a credit check and references, so as you're just moving over, you'll be getting some random hole for the first year, unless you move in with a mate. You'll get roughly $1.40 for every €1. If going to Toronto, join the Facebook page "Irish and New in Toronto!", or there's probably similar pages for wherever you're going. Be wary of furniture; bed bugs are an issue in Toronto. In saying that, people are always leaving, so once you get the bed (I got my frame from Ikea), most other things can be bought cheaply via said Facebook pages when people go back to Ireland.

After being here two years, I prefer unfurnished. My own bed, my own stuff, and no tat. Less interaction with the landlord is needed.


Four ring cooker, fridge/freezer, and a sink. Also, bath/shower, toilet and sink. Aside from that, I don't think you have to include anything.

Cheers for that. I actually lived there for 2015 & 2016 but had to come back to finish an old college degree to get my points back near 500 for PR. Which also thankfully means references because it can be tricky getting a good spot without (may/June are excellent months though with all the UT students etc leaving so I will probably just sublet a room for 3 months or so while I get myself sorted). I'm planning in getting all new stuff for the apartment this time though, might as well since delays in the PR process have me back in the family home the last few weeks with no expenses for the rest of the year (goal is $25k) but yeah Irish and new is handy a feck as well. If you ever apply for PR make sure to use 'Irish and applying for Canadian pr' - really handy all in all.

And no need to warn me about care for bed bugs since I lived nearish to Spadina! :pac:

Are you certain in the deposit bit though? It's interesting because my landlord/letting company in Canada had an additional deposit, though it was only $150 which they gave back after so wasn't a big deal. Probably best I check that one so I don't get myself screwed over by some dodgy f'ker!

Random aside, if you've not got around to jerk chicken go to rasta pasta in Kensington. Or seven lives fish tacos beside it. Or mare pizzeria (across from the butcher, looks like a dump from the outside but the pizza is incredible) and that San Cosme place on the corner. They're all well priced and they're all unbelievable.

the_syco

Billy86 wrote: »

Are you certain in the deposit bit though? It's interesting because my landlord/letting company in Canada had an additional deposit, though it was only $150 which they gave back after so wasn't a big deal. Probably best I check that one so I don't get myself screwed over by some dodgy f'ker!

New standard lease; http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Page18704.aspx

They can do a key deposit, but other than that

Note: This amount cannot be more than one month’s rent or the rent for one rental period (e.g., one week in a weekly tenancy), whichever is less. This cannot be used as a damage deposit. The landlord must pay the tenant interest on the rent deposit every year. See Part H in General Information.

Have attached it. This came into play very recently, and looks like a decent step forward.

Points are now at 440.

TSQ

The_Conductor wrote: »

I agree with you.
However- the alternate- which is the case in a lot of European countries- is a property is let entirely unfurnished, with a bland neutral paint job- and the tenant is expected to hand it back in an identical manner (a lot of countries insist on 3 month's rent as a deposit to pay to repaint properties that tenants don't properly repaint- and some countries (Switzerland and some German states) have special agencies to inspect properties before they are handed back to landlords (good luck expecting the RTB to do this!!!)

I think there is a lot to be said for an entirely unfurnished property- with a bland paint job- and the tenant can furnish it as they choose- and paint it to their hearts content- the only caveat being they have to return it in the same bland condition they received it in?

It is also quite usual in some countries for tenant to have to completely fit out the kitchen - . Of course, the tenancies are usually a lot longer.

utmbuilder

wow some money on airbnb 3200 in most cases for a bottom of the pile 3bed, a 2 bed in d4 5000 a month

a shed type house in darndale is 1500 a month with no insullation

The_Conductor

utmbuilder wrote: »

wow some money on airbnb 3200 in most cases for a bottom of the pile 3bed, a 2 bed in d4 5000 a month

a shed type house in darndale is 1500 a month with no insullation

Airbnb- is a short term let- and it *is* going to be very strictly policed (with maximum stays (its said 7 days is the proposal) and a maximum number of days per year per property (somewhere between 30 and 60).

As for the uninsulated shed in Darndale- I accept supply is limited- but more fool someone paying 1500 for a shed in Darndale........

The issue was solely supply- which through interference- is now a multipronged issue- with the toxic regulatory regime driving prospective landlords from the sector (as per the RTBs own spun figures..........)

The sector is only getting worse- the more the Department, the Minister, the various vested interest groups- and of course the RTB- meddle in it.

Usually the number of landlords leaving the sector would be eclipsed by those entering the sector- this is no longer the case- so we have a supply crunch in the rental sector.

aluminium

Im now mortgage free and decided to leave the properties empty. That said I looked at air bandb , homeaway and spot a home.

The property I listed has multiple enquiries for a rediculously high rent. I have opted with homeaway, Im changing my tax from schedule d case five to schedule d case two.
The equiiries were all uk companies. I opted for a monday to thursday rental for seven months. I put in a cleaner every friday. takes an hour to change bed linen wash bathrooms and vacuum carpet.
I dont need to register with PRTB (Im not here to discuss the legalities of this). I have been approached by directors of other companies that know the guys in my house to ask if i will give them the property on a day by day, a weekly or a monthly (anything at all) as they dont want to stay in hotels.

Im getting VERY VERY good rent.

pc7

The_Conductor wrote: »

The sector is only getting worse- the more the Department, the Minister, the various vested interest groups- and of course the RTB- meddle in it.

r.

More kite flying in the papers this morning, tax relief for long term leases, they just need to give proper tax breaks and stop trying to manage unwieldy ways of dealing with things. They've caused so much more damage by interfering.

quadrifoglio verde

pc7 wrote: »

More kite flying in the papers this morning, tax relief for long term leases, they just need to give proper tax breaks and stop trying to manage unwieldy ways of dealing with things. They've caused so much more damage by interfering.

It'll just stop those wanting a one year lease from getting one.

Browney7

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

It'll just stop those wanting a one year lease from getting one.

I'd envisage a lot of "side letters" or other agreements on separate sheets of paper. Lease signed will specify a 10 year lease but then a side letter will be signed specifying "lease can be ended by tenant and landlord for X y and z reasons". LL provides original lease to revenue in case of audit or to claim the relief. LL wouldn't pursue tenant if they left after 2 years.

This is a FF giveaway tax break for its property owning voters dressed up as some benevolent break for hard pressed tenants and accidental landlords who have to top up their leveraged investment with extra funds.

Claw Hammer

Browney7 wrote: »

I'd envisage a lot of "side letters" or other agreements on separate sheets of paper. Lease signed will specify a 10 year lease but then a side letter will be signed specifying "lease can be ended by tenant and landlord for X y and z reasons". LL provides original lease to revenue in case of audit or to claim the relief. LL wouldn't pursue tenant if they left after 2 years.

This is a FF giveaway tax break for its property owning voters dressed up as some benevolent break for hard pressed tenants and accidental landlords who have to top up their leveraged investment with extra funds.

That would be illegal. No landlord would do such a thing.