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Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

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    #1052
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Martynet wrote: »
    Well if he was moving faster than 50 km/h, that's just wrong.

    All MPVs are limited to the same speed legally which is the speed posted on the side of the road. He's not doing anything that's more illegal than you are.


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    #1053
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Grassey wrote: »
    I was doing 35km/h down the bikelane in Churchtown last week. Was ghosted by a scooter that just appeared to my right in the bicycle lane travelling far in excess of that speed!!!
    If I was teleported to a random place in Ireland in front of a scooter or a bike right now, to be struck by either, I would choose to be hit by a bike. This includes ebikes and of course there are a lot of non road legal e-bikes which go well over 25kmh, I am bearing them in mind so there is not point saying "oh oh wait, we are only talking about escooters that I personally approve of". The choice would not be by a huge margin, but from what I see on my commute I would take my chances with the bike.


    You can see some sellers are telling customers the limit is 45mph/72.4kmh
    https://gyrowheel.ie/faq/
    What is the legal status of electric/battery powered scooters, unicycles and skateboards in Ireland?

    Electric vehicles or any other Mechanically Propelled Vehicles (MPV) do not need to be taxed or insured in Ireland as long as they don’t go over 45 mph. All our products travel below 45 mph. However, if any electric vehicles go over 45 mph, then those would need to get tax and insurance like a regular car or motorbike...

    For further details please see garda.ie.


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    #1054
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,514 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    tuxy wrote: »
    All MPVs are limited to the same speed legally which is the speed posted on the side of the road. He's not doing anything that's more illegal than you are.

    Driving an MPV in a bike lane is illegal.


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    #1055
    Grassey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    tuxy wrote: »
    All MPVs are limited to the same speed legally which is the speed posted on the side of the road. He's not doing anything that's more illegal than you are.

    Well considering it was an offroad mandatory cycle lane then the presence there of a non-bicycle is illegal in and off itself.


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    #1056
    Martynet
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Martynet


    ted1 wrote: »
    Driving an MPV in a bike lane is illegal.

    That's exactly why the law has to be amended. Classic MPV scooters are heavy, smelly and loud and definitely don't belong to the bike lane. But all the new forms of personal transport, like escooters, skateboards, unicycles etc, are much lighter and should be allowed in cycling lane.


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    #1057
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Yup and same goes for no insurance on an MPV.
    It just sounds like Martynet and the faster scooters he is condemning are breaking the exact same laws.

    I do think the law does need to be amended to directly state where small electric vehicles stand though.


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    #1058
    Martynet
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Martynet


    rubadub wrote: »
    If I was teleported to a random place in Ireland in front of a scooter or a bike right now, to be struck by either, I would choose to be hit by a bike. This includes ebikes and of course there are a lot of non road legal e-bikes which go well over 25kmh, I am bearing them in mind so there is not point saying "oh oh wait, we are only talking about escooters that I personally approve of". The choice would not be by a huge margin, but from what I see on my commute I would take my chances with the bike.


    You can see some sellers are telling customers the limit is 45mph/72.4kmh
    https://gyrowheel.ie/faq/

    That gyrowheel faq is all old and all wrong :)


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    #1059
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Martynet wrote: »
    That gyrowheel faq is all old and all wrong :)

    Yup this is the RSA's current stance

    http://rsa.ie/Documents/VS_Information_Notes/Two_Three_Wheeled_Vehicles/FAQs%20on%20E%20Bikes%20and%20Pedelecs%20and%20battery%20Scooters.pdf


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    #1060
    Martynet
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Martynet


    tuxy wrote: »
    Yup and same goes for no insurance on an MPV.
    It just sounds like Martynet and the faster scooters he is condemning are breaking the exact same laws.

    I do think the law does need to be amended to directly state where small electric vehicles stand though.

    We need a brand new category for these. It is the future and everyone will own on of these in couple of years. We need less space for cars and double or triple the width of the lanes for bikes and all these new forms of transport.

    You should join us on the next eride and try it for yourself ;)

    http://eride.ie


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    #1061
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Martynet wrote: »

    You should join us on the next eride and try it for yourself ;)

    http://eride.ie

    So I could try that and you could try the Wicklow 200km with me?


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    #1062
    Martynet
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Martynet


    tuxy wrote: »
    So I could try that and you could try the Wicklow 200km with me?

    I'd love to but I sold my bike to get money for the scooter. I had the bike for commuting only really. And at the weekends I prefer to do walking/hiking.


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    #1063
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    FYI (for anyone else)

    That a €2.5k (ish)
    Max Speed: 65 Kmh (40 MPH) scooter.


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    #1064
    Martynet
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Martynet


    beauf wrote: »
    FYI (for anyone else)

    That a €2.5k (ish)
    Max Speed: 65 Kmh (40 MPH) scooter.

    I bought mine here: https://scootera.uk
    Great guy to deal with. Based in London.

    I didn't buy my scooter for end of commute. I was originally going to and was looking at m365 sccoter, but then I realized that it would be nice to scoot all the way to work and avoid overcrowded luas. m365 and similar are "end of commute" type scooter and I wouldn't use them for trips longer than 5km. And than there is hills. Cheap scooters and hills are not good friends. Especially if youre weight is close to 90 Kg. Which is my case too. And finally it's safety. Double suspension and 10-11" tyres makes big difference and gives you much more stability. Safety first :)


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    #1065
    paruss100
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭paruss100


    Martynet wrote: »
    I bought mine here: https://scootera.uk
    Great guy to deal with. Based in London.

    I didn't buy my scooter for end of commute. I was originally going to and was looking at m365 sccoter, but then I realized that it would be nice to scoot all the way to work and avoid overcrowded luas. m365 and similar are "end of commute" type scooter and I wouldn't use them for trips longer than 5km. And than there is hills. Cheap scooters and hills are not good friends. Especially if youre weight is close to 90 Kg. Which is my case too. And finally it's safety. Double suspension and 10-11" tyres makes big difference and gives you much more stability. Safety first :)

    Have to say the m365 handles hills very well, was surprised by the ones it goes up. But saying that I am about 70kg. Also takes me 8-9k to work and back no problems.


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    #1066
    OmegaRed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭OmegaRed


    tuxy wrote: »
    Yup this is the RSA's current stance

    http://rsa.ie/Documents/VS_Information_Notes/Two_Three_Wheeled_Vehicles/FAQs%20on%20E%20Bikes%20and%20Pedelecs%20and%20battery%20Scooters.pdf



    So this guys was stopped and let off because he proved it needed to be kick started first and the Guards said thats fine so its not a MPV...


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    #1067
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    OmegaRed wrote: »


    So this guys was stopped and let off because he proved it needed to be kick started first and the Guards said thats fine so its not a MPV...

    I think the gardai misunderstood it. I wondered if you could actually get in trouble for it, hard to prove he did it knowingly but I wonder if it matters. He starts pulling out papers and claiming to have been to the gardai website and says "road safety authority frequently ask questions" meaning a FAQ, but when I first saw the video I thought he was saying he has been pulled over before and "frequently questioned" about it.

    Both gardas are saying "its assisted then", which makes me think they might believe it needs continual scooting, similar to a pedelec or the other scooter in a recent video.

    As he seems so confident and seemingly has "proof" it is understandable that they would fall for it.

    I think the guy in the video (Robi) believes it is not road legal himself and is a chancer, he even has a petition up to legalise them.

    https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/escoot
    Lately, Electric Scooters and other eRides are being seized by Garda, on a daily basis.

    Legally speaking, they currently are Mechanically Propelled Vehicles that require driving license, insurance and motor tax.

    They currently can't be registered for motor tax, so they can't be insured either.
    ted1 wrote: »
    Looks like a staged video. Think the Gardaí have more branding.
    I wondered about that too, but checking other images I think it is legit, you would want to be mad faking something like that.


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    #1068
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    If a few guards misinterpret the law and make a mistake(everyone makes mistakes) it does not change the law.


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    #1069
    Martynet
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Martynet


    ted1 wrote: »
    Looks like a staged video. Think the Gardaí have more branding.

    It's definitely not staged. I know the guy from our eride group. We all carry this sheet of paper with different quotes from garda.ie, rsa.ie etc... And as you can see, it sometimes helps. Electric scooter with kick to start might not be MPV and lots of gards agree with that. Some of them don't. Like the one on Kevin Street last weeks. Where he seized good amount of scooters last week.


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    #1070
    Martynet
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Martynet


    Oh nearly forgot, once rubadub shared the link to the petition here, please feel free to sign and share. Let's make erides legal together :)


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    #1071
    Martynet
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Martynet


    https://imgur.com/a/97B1kF9


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    #1072
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Martynet wrote: »
    It's definitely not staged. I know the guy from our eride group. We all carry this sheet of paper with different quotes from garda.ie, rsa.ie etc... And as you can see, it sometimes helps. Electric scooter with kick to start might not be MPV and lots of gards agree with that. Some of them don't. Like the one on Kevin Street last weeks. Where he seized good amount of scooters last week.

    Would scooting be continued scooting or just one scoot to start?
    There must be a reason both the gardi and rsa use the pural.
    If you stop pesaling on a legal ebike you lose all asistance. How long does the assistance generally last between scoots?

    I do agree the law is too vague. It's reasonably clear on ebikes but everything else would fit the discription of an mpv inder current laws.
    I would hope that laws would be introduced for electric scooters to make it clear. Having ones that give you a slight boost every time you scoot would be best and in line with the laws for ebikes.


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    #1073
    RHJ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 925 ✭✭✭RHJ


    Another new scooter being launched by xiaomi for anyone that's interested they have even added pedals to try and make it legal in most countries.

    https://electrek.co/2019/04/23/xiaomi-himo-t1-electric-moped-bike/amp/


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    #1074
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    RHJ wrote: »
    Another new scooter being launched by xiaomi for anyone that's interested they have even added pedals to try and make it legal in most countries.

    https://electrek.co/2019/04/23/xiaomi-himo-t1-electric-moped-bike/amp/

    If the pedals actually did something it would be classes as an ebike in Ireland and be legal.

    Close.......


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    #1075
    Martynet
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Martynet


    tuxy wrote: »
    Would scooting be continued scooting or just one scoot to start?
    There must be a reason both the gardi and rsa use the pural.
    If you stop pesaling on a legal ebike you lose all asistance. How long does the assistance generally last between scoots?

    I do agree the law is too vague. It's reasonably clear on ebikes but everything else would fit the discription of an mpv inder current laws.
    I would hope that laws would be introduced for electric scooters to make it clear. Having ones that give you a slight boost every time you scoot would be best and in line with the laws for ebikes.

    How long does the assistance generally last between scoots?
    Until you stop, at the red light for example. :)

    I don't think that scooter with assisted push would be any use. Maybe in Holland, where everything is flat. But not in Ireland. Not only you would sweat your soul off going up the Sandyford Road for example. Anyway this hole thing with pedalec or not is weird. It shouldn't make any difference. What should be considered is the weight and top speed. Not what the source of power is...legs or electric motor. For example in Czech republic it's plain and simple. Electric gadgets are allowed without any tax or insurance up to 1000W motor and 30 km/h speed. And 6 km/h speed on pavement. And if you want more powerful scooter with 3000W and higher top speed, then you need to register it and get insurance. Done.


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    #1076
    DeKing
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭DeKing


    Martynet wrote:
    It's definitely not staged. I know the guy from our eride group. We all carry this sheet of paper with different quotes from garda.ie, rsa.ie etc... And as you can see, it sometimes helps. Electric scooter with kick to start might not be MPV and lots of gards agree with that. Some of them don't. Like the one on Kevin Street last weeks. Where he seized good amount of scooters last week.


    Can you send me a copy of this sheet of paper? I'd hate to have my scooter taken off me. Got rid of the car as found I didn't need it, so dependant on the scooter for commuting.


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    #1077
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    DeKing wrote: »
    Can you send me a copy of this sheet of paper? I'd hate to have my scooter taken off me. Got rid of the car as found I didn't need it, so dependant on the scooter for commuting.

    Just print out these

    https://www.garda.ie/en/FAQs/?id=4853 (last question on the page)

    http://rsa.ie/Documents/VS_Information_Notes/Two_Three_Wheeled_Vehicles/FAQs%20on%20E%20Bikes%20and%20Pedelecs%20and%20battery%20Scooters.pdf

    Now I know it does not cover the current scooters that are in use and the RSA one even makes it very clear that these are consider MPVs it seems to be enough to trick some guards.


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    #1078
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    If the trick fails its a max fine of five grand...


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    #1079
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Martynet wrote: »
    Not only you would sweat your soul off going up the Sandyford Road for example. Anyway this hole thing with pedalec or not is weird. It shouldn't make any difference. What should be considered is the weight and top speed. Not what the source of power is...legs or electric motor
    The very fact you are not sweating could be the part of the problem. It is my understanding that the bike to work scheme was partly to promote fitness (and free up roads which scooters would do). They put lots of money into fitness equipment in parks too. So there could well be objection to them being used on cyclepaths, discouraging potential cyclists from using them if there was a big increase in traffic on them.


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    #1080
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    ED E wrote: »
    If the trick fails its a max fine of five grand...

    Is it a mandatory court appearance like it would be for anyone caught driving with no insurance?


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    #1081
    Martynet
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Martynet


    tuxy wrote: »
    Just print out these

    https://www.garda.ie/en/FAQs/?id=4853 (last question on the page)

    http://rsa.ie/Documents/VS_Information_Notes/Two_Three_Wheeled_Vehicles/FAQs%20on%20E%20Bikes%20and%20Pedelecs%20and%20battery%20Scooters.pdf

    Now I know it does not cover the current scooters that are in use and the RSA one even makes it very clear that these are consider MPVs it seems to be enough to trick some guards.

    here you go. I'll try to find better quality later. Forgot my phone today.


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