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Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,514 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    You seem to mean car drivers and such? ...... those with seats with headrests and surrounded by air bags designed to prevent head injuries?

    Is that what you really meant?

    So you are saying we don’t have a high claims rate with regards to whiplash , general neck and head injuries in Ireland ?

    Why do rally drivers who have roll cages and 5 point seat belts wear them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,514 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Fashion statement, or maybe less risk of brain injury.



    Hugely depends on the scooter and the weight of the rider. At full speed (25km/h) I would guess about 2.5m.

    Risk of brain injury !! That contradicts the statement about scooters being safe.

    At least with cycling your get cardio and other exercises


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy



    Hugely depends on the scooter and the weight of the rider. At full speed (25km/h) I would guess about 2.5m.

    So the stopping time is well under 1 second? That's amazing and far better that anything else on the road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Garibaldi? wrote: »
    Would love a scooter if they are made legal. But one disadvantage they have is the inability to carry much stuff. You'd need a backpack

    I put a hook on mine so i can carry a shopping bag on it. Backpack is better though. I usually use the hook if bringing a bag of glass bottles to recycling bin.
    ted1 wrote: »
    Risk of brain injury !! That contradicts the statement about scooters being safe.

    At least with cycling your get cardio and other exercises

    I wasn't the one talking about them being safe. And we are talking about transport, not exercise.
    tuxy wrote: »
    So the stopping time is well under 1 second? That's amazing and far better that anything else on the road.

    Bringing ~90-100kg to a stop from a velocity of 25km/h is alot easier than stopping something 10 times the mass at the same velocity. I guess about 2.5m because I stopped in less then the length of a car when some eijet stepped out onto the road without looking. I was cruising at full speed at the time on a relatively clear road. Sorry, I didn't have a measuring tape and wasn't being recorded when it happened.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,011 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    ted1 wrote: »
    So you are saying we don’t have a high claims rate with regards to whiplash , general neck and head injuries in Ireland ?

    Why do rally drivers who have roll cages and 5 point seat belts wear them.

    Huh!???
    I said nothing about any of that, just asked a question.

    You are now comparing ordinary road use to rally driving?

    OK.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,514 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Huh!???
    I said nothing about any of that, just asked a question.

    You are now comparing ordinary road use to rally driving?

    OK.

    You implied that as a result of car safety features there’s no need for helmets or neck braces.

    The fact is it’s more beneficial for drivers to wear helmets and neck braces than any other road user


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    helmet-on-top.jpg.860x0_q70_crop-smart.jpg
    https://www.treehugger.com/cars/Why-arent-driver-helmets-mandatory.html
    we know that more people get traumatic brain injuries in cars than anywhere else. And it is not just because more people drive; we know that the rate of injury and death per million hours traveled is actually higher for drivers than it is for cyclists. So why don’t drivers have to wear helmets?

    Cycling historian Carlton Reid has asked the same question, and notes that in Australia, car helmets were actually manufactured and sold by Davies Craig, an Australian manufacturer of automotive parts. Reid writes on Motoring, a British car website:

    “Commonly a head injury arises when the head strikes the A or B pillar, windscreen, or the head of another occupant,” Davies told me by email from Australia. He added: “Medical treatment is a drain on society.”

    The use of motoring helmets is a “sensible concept,” wrote Davies in 1988. The Davies Craig Motoring Helmet wasn’t for motorsport it was for everyday use. The helmet’s packaging featured families wearing helmets while pooling around town, and a businessman wearing one while being driven by a helmet-wearing chauffeur.

    Reid wonders why there was never a move to make helmets mandatory for drivers. After all, the logic is identical to that for cyclists; professional racers in both cars and bikes wear helmets, but race car drivers don’t wear fireproof suits and helmets driving around town.

    It’s a mystery because surely if such helmets saved just one life it would be worth it? Part of the reason for the product’s lack of success could be the widespread belief that motoring isn’t dangerous to car occupants. “Motorists perceived they were safe, strapped in a steel cage,” said Davies.

    Reid, writing from the UK, asks why this is all ignored.

    Given that crashing motor cars is the leading cause of death among young men, and that wearing helmets could save lives, isn’t it time the UK Government made motoring helmets compulsory?

    Personally, I wish there was a really light, good looking and comfortable helmet that older people could wear while walking; falls and head injuries a major issue for them. Showers are a problem too, killing one American every day; unless you have proper safe showering infrastructure (separate shower with non-slip floor and handrails) lives would be saved if there were mandatory shower helmets.

    But lets start with the most sensible target: Helmets for drivers. If it saves just one life….

    durrrr, you would be utterly stupid not to wear one in a car...

    I am amazed more helmet manufacturers have not tried to market them. When I cycled to school not a single person wore a helmet, then in a few decades they have been a massive success so much so that people are ridiculed as stupid and mad not to wear them, they have they not tried to do the same with many other activities, especially cars, there are more sporting helmets though. I get otherwise intelligent people looking at me blankly when I question their logic and rationale, most who cycled themselves for years when helmets were available, but have somehow been convinced NOW it would be utter madness.

    Maybe the manufacturers are all keeping shtum and do not want to ruin the good thing they have going by pushing it too much, "the emporers new helmet".


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Lumen wrote: »
    That would require over 1g of deceleration. I find that rather implausible, given the geometry of the scooter and human.
    To be pedantic two thirds of a g


    E-scooter hire company Lime has warned about a fault that can lead to riders being flung off scooters at high speed.
    The most recent death was of Irish exchange student Mark Sands, who died in Austin, Texas , on 2 February, after colliding with a Uber car.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    rubadub wrote: »
    durrrr, you would be utterly stupid not to wear one in a car...
    CBA looking it up but IIRC 17% of head injuries in car crashes could be prevented if drivers wore helmets. And didn't drive faster because they felt safer. Many safety devices for drivers have increased risk for other road users.


    IMHO Replacing the drivers airbag with a harpoon would probably reduce certain types of car collisions as drivers would take more care.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    This thing is turning into a cycle forum debate and it is getting ridiculous when people start talking about driving helmets!

    Every incident is different and a helmet wont save you in all. I have seen many pictures of RTA accidents in a former job and I can tell you that they would not save lives in the majority of higher speed incidents and a fair few low speed ones.

    Statistics are flawed (or the way of recording them are) regarding road deaths.

    A scooter (or any cycle or other wheeled item) can cause major injury at very slow speeds.

    An elderly lady a few doors down was laid up for 2 months after someone banged a shopping trolley into her ankle. If someone of similar age and condition was hit by one of these scooters on the pavement, it would break bones and may even prove fatal.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    To be pedantic two thirds of a g


    The most recent death was of Irish exchange student Mark Sands, who died in Austin, Texas , on 2 February, after colliding with a Uber car.

    E-scooter hire company Lime has warned about a fault that can lead to riders being flung off scooters at high speed.

    Always tragic when someone with all that life ahead of them is killed. A quick search shows it was not the scooter, but the rider was at fault. He was riding against traffic and collided with the uber car.
    https://www.dailytexanonline.com/2019/02/05/ut-austin-student-mark-sands-dies-after-car-and-scooter-crash

    These accidents happen all the time with all modes of transport. Even trains collide from time to time. It just happened to be a Lime scooter on this occasion and I am sure it wont be the last fatality.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    This thing is turning into a cycle forum debate and it is getting ridiculous when people start talking about driving helmets!
    I don't see what is so ridiculous about it. People thought the idea of cycling helmets was ridiculous when I was growing up, people were ridiculed for wearing them, the 1 lad in school who had one was bullied over it.

    Who knows, in 20 years you might have people calling people mad who do not wear driving helmets. Or pedestrian helmets. I have mountain bike elbow, and wrist protection which I have worn when walking in icy weather.

    http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/08/walking-helmet-is-good-helmet.html

    gohjelm.png
    This Danish campaign poster reads:

    "A walking helmet is a good helmet"
    "Traffic safety isn't just for cyclists. The pedestrians of Denmark actually have a higher risk of head injury. The Danish Road Safety Council recommends walking helmets for pedestrians and other good folk in high risk groups."

    The slogan is catchy in Danish since it kind of rhymes. All in all it's a brilliant project. Let's save some lives.

    The new walking helmets will be available in the Danish Cyclists Union's [Dansk cyklist forbund] shop. Although, as the Danish Cyclists' Union, the Road Safety Council and Trygfonden have been quick to point out:

    "A bike helmet is a fine substitute for walking helmets, so there's no need to take it off when you get off your bike. Keep it on throughout the day for maximum safety."

    http://casr.adelaide.edu.au/developments/headband/
    headband2.jpgheadband1.jpg
    The Centre has been evaluating the concept of a protective headband for car occupants. In about 44 percent of cases of occupant head injury, a protective headband, such as the one illustrated, would have provided some benefit. One estimate has put the potential benefit of such a device (in terms of reduced societal Harm) as high as $380 million, compared with $123 million for padding the upper interior of the car. This benefit derives from the fact that in a crash, the head strikes objects other than those that could be padded inside the car.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    rubadub wrote: »
    I don't see what is so ridiculous about it. People thought the idea of cycling helmets was ridiculous when I was growing up,
    "A bike helmet is a fine substitute for walking helmets, so there's no need to take it off when you get off your bike. Keep it on throughout the day for maximum safety."
    we don't know how many children's lives have been saved by cycling helmets, but we know how many they have taken
    - cba looking up this quote IIRC

    Children have been strangled by helmets when caught in playgrounds or bunk beds.

    It's the old cycling helmet debate.
    If you are in collision with a motorist travelling at their normal speeds anything less than a proper motorcycle helmet isn't much use.

    If you exclude collisions with motorists, off road cycling, and downhill descents at race speed there aren't many incidents where people need helmets.


    Electric scooters by definition can move even when a human isn't providing motive force, so are motorcycles and so cycling helmet can't be used. Only full EU approved motorcycle helmets.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Let's discuss electric scooters, e-boards, e-unicycles here. The other thread has gone way off topic and would be unhelpful to most people searching for information. For the purpose of reasoned discussion, the following assumptions should be adhered to:

    1) All of these electric micro transport vehicles are considered MPVs and are not legal for use in public places.

    2) All vehicles discussed have a max speed of 35km/h.

    3) Riders are over 16 years of age.

    4) The same rules which apply to a bicyclist apply to e-ride users.

    This is not a discussion about electrically assisted bicycles, or petrol powered scooters. Please keep the discussion to what is being used by the majority of riders, rather than the exceptions which can reach high speeds in low seconds.

    Most of us want to see these e-rides (especially the scooters) legislated for. Hopefully this thread can help people make up their minds about these micro transport options.


    My view is that these micro transport vehicles reduce congestion and are much better than having cars in the city. They should be encouraged, rather than seized and the owners being called menaces by the Mayor.

    I would recommend the following rules:
      All e-rides up to 50km/h should be allowed on cycle lanes and the road where no cycle lane is present. Riders must be over the age of 16 and carry proof of age if there is any doubt. Riders must ensure they can be seen at night. Front and rear lights should be at 800mm from the ground and may be mounted on the rider. Riders must have insurance to to use an e-ride.
    The insurance one is questionable. I think anyone using a vehicle on the road should pay a small insurance premium, but I know that's not a popular subject when it comes to encouraging cycling.


    All input is welcome.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,638 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    I'd like to see some clear legislation on these, as the current laws do not suit and are just being flouted anyway.

    I'd say 35 km/h is probably fast enough for these yokes. And they certainly shouldn't be on footpaths, which I've occasionally seen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭Brian201888


    This is just going to be another thread of people arguing the legality, leave that nonsense to the other thread and have this just be discussion of scooters


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    If you hit a pothole at 30 kmh on one of those, you're getting hurt.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭eagerv


    I would love one to be honest.
    I have been holding off buying mainly due to the legal implications.


    My commute is on a very quiet road where I would rarely meet another car or person. Presently I use an E Bike, weather permitting, but the scooter would be more convenient.



    I would imagine that if or when they are legalised speed will be max 25kph which IMO is fast enough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    There is a risk (however small) that the scooter could be seized and you could be fined and brought to court. I only scoot short distances in DCC and I pass Gardai often. I have not had any problems yet.

    I agree that 25km/h is fast enough. The Xiaomi M365 is the most popular one on the road and the average person will only achieve a speed of 25km/h. I find my e-scooter to be very handy and use a quality U-Lock to secure it if I can't take it indoors with me.

    Expect a real life range of 15km to avoid any disappointment.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭eagerv


    There is a risk (however small) that the scooter could be seized and you could be fined and brought to court. I only scoot short distances in DCC and I pass Gardai often. I have not had any problems yet.

    I agree that 25km/h is fast enough. The Xiaomi M365 is the most popular one on the road and the average person will only achieve a speed of 25km/h. I find my e-scooter to be very handy and use a quality U-Lock to secure it if I can't take it indoors with me.

    Expect a real life range of 15km to avoid any disappointment.


    15km would be plenty for me.
    The convenience of not locking away in the bike shed would be handy. Also bring into office and fold up behind door would save locking it up.


    Saw an older couple late last summer get off their yacht in Kilmore Quay with a scooter each and go off exploring.:)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf




  • Registered Users Posts: 31,069 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    16 year olds in cycle lanes on 50kph scooters.

    This is a brilliant idea with no obvious downsides.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    There is a girl commuting around ranelagh/Camden st on a mountain bike type bike with huge tyres. She doesn't pedal at all on it and no lights or reflectors visible from behind as her seat is actually below the rear wheel.

    This type of bike is illegal also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Lumen wrote: »
    16 year olds in cycle lanes on 50kph scooters.

    This is a brilliant idea with no obvious downsides.

    You can legally ride a moped at 16 which can reach 80kph and are often in, or straddling the cycle lanes. I'm not suggesting anyone rides at 50kph in a cycle lane. I'm quite happy trundling along at 15-20 myself.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    You can legally ride a moped at 16 which can reach 80kph and are often in, or straddling the cycle lanes. I'm not suggesting anyone rides at 50kph in a cycle lane. I'm quite happy trundling along at 15-20 myself.

    Once insured, licence, correct lighting etc which nobody will have on a bicycle or a battery scooter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    ...
    Once insured, licence, correct lighting etc which nobody will have on a bicycle or a battery scooter.

    No one will have correct lighting?

    What's correct lighting.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    beauf wrote: »
    No one will have correct lighting?

    What's correct lighting.

    A dipped beam for a start. I've been blinded by more cyclists than anyone else lately.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    beauf wrote: »
    No one will have correct lighting?

    What's correct lighting.

    White on front between X and X off the ground.
    Red on rear between X and X off the ground.
    Directional indicators in amber with similar positional requirements.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    pablo128 wrote: »
    beauf wrote: »
    No one will have correct lighting?

    What's correct lighting.

    A dipped beam for a start. I've been blinded by more cyclists than anyone else lately.

    It's not a legal requirement. So by proper you mean basically something you've made up.

    I don't disagree that some lights need to be better regulated. But it's not correct to call it improper or incorrect if they meet the current requirements.


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