Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

tuxy

Shane Ross promised a quick decision on e-scooters so it won't be long before a sensible solution is implemented.

...Ghost...

ted1 wrote: »

You clearly don’t cycle.

I don't scoot very far, or very often, but I feel a lot safer on it than I ever have on a bike. It's just much easier to dismount if there is an issue. Majority of my scooting has been in Dublin city centre.

rivegauche wrote: »

escooters are legal in Germany from tomorrow.
min 6kmph to 20kmph max speed.
No need to wear a helmet.
keep off the pavements.
must have two brakes, a bell and a space below the brake light to show an insurance cert/registration number.
must be type certified.
insurance which will cost around 50 euro per year is obligatory.

by legal from tomorrow I mean production of type certified scooters can begin from tomorrow so it will be a short while before they appear for sale.

existing scooters can be brought in to complaince but probably won't happen often.

Between the likes of electronics stores and LIDL/ALDI/REAL and of course Amazon there will definitely be a supply of scooters to be bought and there are bike lanes everywhere here.

If scooters are to change urban commuting then it will happen in Germany first.

I doubt the scooter hire companies will make much impact as Germans simply won't tolerate them being strewn all over the cityscape.

That's great news, although I would hope to see an increase in the speed limit to 30 here. The €50 insurance is a great idea imo. Will that be the policy be attached to the user, or the scooter?

Regarding scooter rentals, I think they would be acceptable if they had dedicated bays, rather than being left anywhere and everywhere.

rivegauche

for petrol and electric mopeds/mofas the €50 insurance sticker/plate is sent to you in the post and affixed to the moped. it ties in to type approval of the moped so switching it from one moped to another probably won't be possible.

30kmph is too much. When you are riding a scooter you have assumed launch position and would be thrown quite a distance at 30kmph and you are more of a danger to other people at 30kmph...mass x velocity = ouch

Johnboy1951

tuxy wrote: »

Shane Ross promised a quick decision on e-scooters so it won't be long before a sensible solution is implemented.

I do like your optimism

I also hope you are correct

tuxy

rivegauche wrote: »

for petrol and electric mopeds/mofas the €50 insurance sticker/plate is sent to you in the post and affixed to the moped. it ties in to type approval of the moped so switching it from one moped to another probably won't be possible.

What's the cost of insurance on petrol mopeds in Ireland right now, is it more than €50?
Also in Germany are you buying the insurance from a government or private company?

rivegauche

you can ask someone in Ireland about current insurance costs.
private companies provide this insurance in Germany and comparisson sites like check24 let you find the cheapest/best offer.

ted1

rivegauche wrote: »

escooters are legal in Germany from tomorrow.
min 6kmph to 20kmph max speed.
No need to wear a helmet.
keep off the pavements.
must have two brakes, a bell and a space below the brake light to show an insurance cert/registration number.
must be type certified.
insurance which will cost around 50 euro per year is obligatory.

by legal from tomorrow I mean production of type certified scooters can begin from tomorrow so it will be a short while before they appear for sale.

existing scooters can be brought in to complaince but probably won't happen often.

Between the likes of electronics stores and LIDL/ALDI/REAL and of course Amazon there will definitely be a supply of scooters to be bought and there are bike lanes everywhere here.

If scooters are to change urban commuting then it will happen in Germany first.

I doubt the scooter hire companies will make much impact as Germans simply won't tolerate them being strewn all over the cityscape.

The Germans are good are laws. They have strict regulations for bike lights. That few are yet to follow

grogi

ted1 wrote: »

The Germans are good are laws. They have strict regulations for bike lights. That few are yet to follow

Ordnung muß sein. And I say it with the uttermost respect to the German nation.

rivegauche

The Irish are good are laws. They have strict regulations for <insert example> . That few are yet to follow

Plenty of examples from my circle of fines being issued and the point is to get the e-scooters legislated so that their use becomes common.

ED E

tuxy wrote: »

What's the cost of insurance on petrol mopeds in Ireland right now, is it more than €50?
Also in Germany are you buying the insurance from a government or private company?

Several hundred. More if you're young.

rivegauche

€38.40 according to check24. No tax and electricity is negligible.
A 45kmph pedelec costs similar. standard pedelec is not subject to insurance.

tuxy

I can see them not meeting tax and for regulations similar to Germany but there is no getting around the high liability or what insurance companies will claim is high liability. If insurance was mandatory for push bikes but was only €50 I wouldn't complain, actually I'd take out a policy even if it wasn't mandatory at that price.

ted1

tuxy wrote: »

I can see them not meeting tax and for regulations similar to Germany but there is no getting around the high liability or what insurance companies will claim is high liability. If insurance was mandatory for push bikes but was only €50 I wouldn't complain, actually I'd take out a policy even if it wasn't mandatory at that price.

So join cycle Ireland. Membership includes insurance

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/membership/member-benefits

rubadub

Casshern88 wrote: »

Someone commented above about scooters congesting cycle lanes. I currently cycle I keep a decent pace when commuting around the City. I am by no means a slow cyclist and I regularly have scooters out pace me and overtake me. I have never once been "stuck behind one".

I'm based in Dublin city center I see on average 3-5 every day. Personality I'll be buying one the second the law is cleared up (hopefully with a positive result ).

The majority I come across are capable of over 25km/hr, in a congested city this might be OK for you. I have a speedo on the bike so know they are well over 25km/hr. Many ebikes are also derestricted of course.

So bear this in mind if you say you would get one, you might find the legal limit painful if you are anyway handy on a bike. I am obese and am faster commuting on a crappy clapped out single speed hybrid with inefficient suspension than I am on a road legal ebike.

In the cycling forum people were complaining about unrestricted ebikes. I was saying a pedelec limit, the same as the US, of 20mph (32.2km/h) might make things safer overall, as people might be perfectly happy with that limit, and not go down the route of derestricting and all the potential problems it brings.

Some were saying a 30km/h limit is too fast for pedelecs, and that they personally averaged 26km/h. But that is average, people were posting actual data readouts from standard bikes and a lot of the time they were well above 26km/h, and then down to zero at lights etc, so this is why the average is so low. I was saying the true way to read results would be to input the data and anything above 25km/h should be reduced to 25km/h, or maybe 26 or 27km/h. This is because once the restriction kicks in and the motor stops most heavy ebikes are abosolute hogs and so you would really struggle to get much faster out of them (unless going downhill).

Reading about the German situation it seems they will be allowed on footpaths in some "exceptional cases", and so I can see why they would have a 20km limit.


https://www.thelocal.de/20190517/e-scooters-get-the-green-light-on-germanys-roads

The amendment states that electrical scooters will only be allowed on pavements in exceptional cases, to be expressly indicated by signs.

E-scooter users must stick to a speed limit of 20 kilometres per hour and be aged 14 years or older.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorized_scooter#Germany

The regulation makes a distinction between vehicles restricted to 12 km/hour, authorized from 12 years on and which may circulate on sidewalks, and those restricted to 20 km/hour, restricted to cycle paths and users over 14 years old.

https://www.thelocal.de/20190612/will-fines-for-new-e-scooters-in-germany-improve-safety

Yet proponents of e-scooter use in Germany say that the vehicles will ease traffic congestion. There is a specific set of rules that need to be followed: namely drivers can’t exceed 20 kilometres per hour, have to stick to pedestrian areas, and have to be over 14 years old.

Those who infringe the rules will be hit with a fine of up to €70 if they don’t have a proper license. Driving without a valid insurance sticker will be fined €40, and failing to meet lighting regulations or have a built-in bell will slapped with further fines.

Anyone who rides in "not permissible traffic areas", or rides next to another e-scooter motorist, must fork out €15, an amount increased to €25 if the act is deemed to endanger public safety.

Worries about safety were further heightened in Paris following the first fatality in an e-scooter in the French capital on Monday night.

The incident followed several other injuries resulting from e-scooter usage in France, where the vehicles are becoming increasingly more popular.

^^ not sure if that bit is a typo about sticking to pedestrian areas, not sure if it means only in built up cities where slow traffic is expected.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/may/16/germany-to-vote-on-law-allowing-e-scooters-on-roads

But Germany’s cyclist association, the ADFC, has warned that Germany’s cycle lanes are not sufficient to cope with existing cycle traffic, let alone a new form of transport. “If we end up with a wave of e-scooters rumbling through our inner cities, we will experience some very unpleasant scenes,” the ADFC’s chief executive, Burkhard Stork, warned this week.

Car driver lobbies have in turn argued that they already struggle to cope with the manoeuvres of bicycle riders.

I would not fancy being on a scooter on our cycletracks, I have a cross country mountain bike with decent suspension and huge tyres since I do not feel safe on anything less than that. I see lads on escooters and roadbikes weaving about wildly on many cycletracks as they are in such poor condition, (the lanes I constantly hear about being "perfectly good" )

rivegauche

The city I'm in has some pavements which are shared between cyclists and pedestrians as the built environment doesn't allow introduction of cycle lanes.

tuxy

ted1 wrote: »

So join cycle Ireland. Membership includes insurance

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/membership/member-benefits

I'm already a member bit I don't believe it covers commuting to and from work.

ted1

tuxy wrote: »

I'm already a member bit I don't believe it covers commuting to and from work.

See below from the FAQ in the more details section. It covers my commute, I imagine it covers most peoples

*****
Am I covered for cycling to / from work?

Yes, provided it forms part of your ongoing training
*******

tuxy

Good to know!
BTW I don't think i know anyone who made a successful personal injury claim with CI but it's still reassuring to have 3rd party cover.

beauf

rivegauche wrote: »

escooters are legal in Germany from tomorrow.
min 6kmph to 20kmph max speed.
No need to wear a helmet.
keep off the pavements.
must have two brakes, a bell and a space below the brake light to show an insurance cert/registration number.
must be type certified.
insurance which will cost around 50 euro per year is obligatory.

by legal from tomorrow I mean production of type certified scooters can begin from tomorrow so it will be a short while before they appear for sale.

existing scooters can be brought in to complaince but probably won't happen often.

Between the likes of electronics stores and LIDL/ALDI/REAL and of course Amazon there will definitely be a supply of scooters to be bought and there are bike lanes everywhere here.

If scooters are to change urban commuting then it will happen in Germany first.

I doubt the scooter hire companies will make much impact as Germans simply won't tolerate them being strewn all over the cityscape.

Good to know

...Ghost...

ted1 wrote: »

See below from the FAQ in the more details section. It covers my commute, I imagine it covers most peoples

*****
Am I covered for cycling to / from work?

Yes, provided it forms part of your ongoing training
*******

That's a bit of a stretch. Reminds me of the people who took out "drive other cars" options to jump from their Micra to an Impreza.

rubadub

...Ghost... wrote: »

That's a bit of a stretch. Reminds me of the people who took out "drive other cars" options to jump from their Micra to an Impreza.

its sort of the reverse here though, more like a rally driver commuting to work. They are likely going slower and more safely.

Johnboy1951

ted1 wrote: »

See below from the FAQ in the more details section. It covers my commute, I imagine it covers most peoples

*****
Am I covered for cycling to / from work?

Yes, provided it forms part of your ongoing training
*******

Does this not imply you must be in training for competition?

...Ghost...

rubadub wrote: »

its sort of the reverse here though, more like a rally driver commuting to work. They are likely going slower and more safely.

Not really. "Drive other cars" was useful to occasionally hop into another car and drive it, whether it had a policy or not. I personally used it on one occasion to drive my brothers car for a couple of days while mine was in getting work done on the coolant system. I went from a 3 series to a mondeo, so wasn't abusing the system. Most insurers now insist that the "others cars" now has its own policy of insurance, motor tax and nct. When things get abused, they get taken away.

The vast majority of cycle commuters are not training, so it's an abuse to claim this to be the case unless you are actually training, or taking part in a cycle Ireland event. It can be argued that the commute is part of training, but it would be delusional at best to suggest that this would be true in most cases.

Anyway it's OT, so apologies for dragging the threat in that direction.

tuxy

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Does this not imply you must be in training for competition?

There's three types of cover you can take out with CI. Leisure for €50, many leisure events are long distance so do require training.
Limited competitive for €80 that covers all competitive events except open road races, €135 for full cover for all types of events.

Anything that gets your heart rate up will help a little when it comes to building cardio. So saying commuting is training could be legitimate but I doubt they would pay out in that situation.

Johnboy1951

tuxy wrote: »

There's three types of cover you can take out with CI. Leisure for €50, many leisure events are long distance so do require training.
Limited competitive for €80 that covers all competitive events except open road races, €135 for full cover for all types of events.

Does this cover travelling to/from work where there is no intention to take part in a competition?
If so I would expect to see an answer which does not include 'in training' from a FAQ.

tuxy

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Does this cover travelling to/from work where there is no intention to take part in a competition?
If so I would expect to see an answer which does not include 'in training' from a FAQ.

Honestly I don't know but I have my doubts. Actually I'm sceptical about any payouts from CI except in extreme cases during events and races and probably only to cover damage to 3rd parties.
I still become a member every year because I want to support cycling in Ireland.

Zurbaran

antodeco wrote: »

My assumption is yours is the Kugoo S1?

Ya that’s the one. Think you were the first to get one before me.

prinzeugen

rivegauche wrote: »

escooters are legal in Germany from tomorrow.
min 6kmph to 20kmph max speed.
No need to wear a helmet.
keep off the pavements.
must have two brakes, a bell and a space below the brake light to show an insurance cert/registration number.
must be type certified.
insurance which will cost around 50 euro per year is obligatory.

by legal from tomorrow I mean production of type certified scooters can begin from tomorrow so it will be a short while before they appear for sale.

existing scooters can be brought in to complaince but probably won't happen often.

Between the likes of electronics stores and LIDL/ALDI/REAL and of course Amazon there will definitely be a supply of scooters to be bought and there are bike lanes everywhere here.

If scooters are to change urban commuting then it will happen in Germany first.

I doubt the scooter hire companies will make much impact as Germans simply won't tolerate them being strewn all over the cityscape.

Note- this a domestic law in Germany. It is NOT EU law. E scooters will continue to be illegal. Even if you have insurance, it will not cover you.

Have you a source? I would love to read the certificate of conformity!! (Its conformity not compliance btw, which makes me think part of this is fake..)

rivegauche

prinzeugen wrote: »

Note- this a domestic law in Germany. It is NOT EU law. E scooters will continue to be illegal. Even if you have insurance, it will not cover you.

Have you a source? I would love to read the certificate of conformity!! (Its conformity not compliance btw, which makes me think part of this is fake..)

Fake? You may not like to hear this but Konformität translates as "compliance".If you don't like how I translate the meaning of "Konformität"
or "Betriebserlaubnis" then rather than calling me a liar without having done a shred of research yourself, hire your own Übersetzer/Dolmetscher to review and report on developments in the world of ElektroScooters in so much as they pertain to Deutschland.

It is now in effect from today and as Germany is the largest market in the E.U. and has done the legwork with regard to regulation what their government proscribes will most likely be used as the basis of similar local laws elsewhere in the E.U.
https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/verordnung-in-kraft-e-tretroller-koennen-kommen.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1017728

drunkmonkey

There's a recall on the Xiamoi scooter for loose screws, you can check it here https://www.mi.com/global/support/mi-electric-scooter-recall-program/