Decriminisation of personal use of illegal drugs.

political analyst

The following article was published on 11 November 2015.

https://www.herald.ie/news/decriminalisation-of-drug-use-a-solo-run-by-labour-says-fg-34188881.htmlhttps://www.herald.ie/news/decriminalisation-of-drug-use-a-solo-run-by-labour-says-fg-34188881.html

Senior Fine Gael figures have warned that the Labour Party proposals for a new decriminalisation policy are "at odds" with the Garda intelligence recently provided to the Department of Justice in relation to the drugs trade.
Gardai have expressed deep concern over the level of potency currently attached to both ecstasy and cannabis - two of the most widely used drugs on the market.
Senior Fine Gael figures have warned that the Labour Party proposals for a new decriminalisation policy are "at odds" with the Garda intelligence recently provided to the Department of Justice in relation to the drugs trade.
Gardai have expressed deep concern over the level of potency currently attached to both ecstasy and cannabis - two of the most widely used drugs on the market.

Whatever about what Fine Gael people think of the idea of decriminalising possession of illegal drugs in cases where the amount is small enough for personal use, I wonder why the Gardaí are opposed to the Labour idea. After all, I thought the Gardaí would be delighted not to have to arrest young people who they catch being in possession of small amounts of illegal drugs for personal use so that the Gardaí can focus on bringing dangerous criminals to justice.

FishOnABike

To be sure, to be sure.

pleas advice

Don't double drop

kneemos

The monthly legalise drugs thread,or is it big monthly now?

Larbre34

political analyst wrote: »

The following article was published on 11 November 2015.

https://www.herald.ie/news/decriminalisation-of-drug-use-a-solo-run-by-labour-says-fg-34188881.htmlhttps://www.herald.ie/news/decriminalisation-of-drug-use-a-solo-run-by-labour-says-fg-34188881.html



Whatever about what Fine Gael people think of the idea of decriminalising possession of illegal drugs in cases where the amount is small enough for personal use, I wonder why the Gardaí are opposed to the Labour idea. After all, I thought the Gardaí would be delighted not to have to arrest young people who they catch being in possession of small amounts of illegal drugs for personal use so that the Gardaí can focus on bringing dangerous criminals to justice.

You do know those tens of thousands of small deals for "personal use" come directly or indirectly from the most dangerous of criminals and underpin every aspect of organised crime in Ireland and Europe?

Boll0x to decriminalisation. Possession should be a 3 strike custodial scale. Boll0x to soft-touch and boll0x to rehabilitation. The easiest way to destroy a weed is by the roots.

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

You do know those tens of thousands of small deals for "personal use" come directly or indirectly from the most dangerous of criminals and underpin every aspect of organised crime in Ireland and Europe?

Boll0x to decriminalisation. Possession should be a 3 strike custodial scale. Boll0x to soft-touch and boll0x to rehabilitation. The easiest way to destroy a weed is by the roots.

I'll take "Retarded notions about how society works" for $500, Alex.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Subcomandante Marcos

Larbre34 wrote: »

You do know those tens of thousands of small deals for "personal use" come directly or indirectly from the most dangerous of criminals and underpin every aspect of organised crime in Ireland and Europe?

Boll0x to decriminalisation. Possession should be a 3 strike custodial scale. Boll0x to soft-touch and boll0x to rehabilitation. The easiest way to destroy a weed is by the roots.

Yeah, right on, burn the hippies at the steak!

I can't think of a single time that prohibition and targeting users has ever failed!

AndyBoBandy

Larbre34 wrote: »

You do know those tens of thousands of small deals for "personal use" come directly or indirectly from the most dangerous of criminals and underpin every aspect of organised crime in Ireland and Europe?

What if you grow it yourself?
It’s relatively easy to do.

_Brian

Larbre34 wrote: »

You do know those tens of thousands of small deals for "personal use" come directly or indirectly from the most dangerous of criminals and underpin every aspect of organised crime in Ireland and Europe?

Boll0x to decriminalisation. Possession should be a 3 strike custodial scale. Boll0x to soft-touch and boll0x to rehabilitation. The easiest way to destroy a weed is by the roots.

Exactly this.
Because it’s difficult and time consuming to police something doesn’t mean we make it legal. I would totally support the 3 strikes policy

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

Exactly this.
Because it’s difficult and time consuming to police something doesn’t mean we make it legal. I would totally support the 3 strikes policy

What are looking to achieve by doing that?

AndyBoBandy

_Brian wrote: »

Exactly this.
Because it’s difficult and time consuming to police something doesn’t mean we make it legal. I would totally support the 3 strikes policy

Where should we start build the mega 10,000 capacity prisons to house all these criminals?

I’d say we’d need at least 3-4 built by year 1 anyway, 10 by year 2 and so on

Subcomandante Marcos

Deleted User wrote: »

What are looking to achieve by doing that?

A prison population comparable to the US and China is about the only outcome I can see from this.
It's total idiocy.

Subcomandante Marcos

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Where should we start build the mega 10,000 capacity prisons to house all these criminals?

I’d say we’d need at least 3-4 built by year 1 anyway, 10 by year 2 and so on

Shur look, it would generate wealth.
We could privitise them and then make contracts with each county for the running of the prisons based on capacity. So if a prison holds up to 10000 people we pay the company who runs it for 10000 prisoners regardless of how many are in there and incentivise the Gardai to keep them full so it doesn't look like a waste of money!

This model can't fail to produce better outcomes for society!

Del2005

Larbre34 wrote: »

You do know those tens of thousands of small deals for "personal use" come directly or indirectly from the most dangerous of criminals and underpin every aspect of organised crime in Ireland and Europe?

Boll0x to decriminalisation. Possession should be a 3 strike custodial scale. Boll0x to soft-touch and boll0x to rehabilitation. The easiest way to destroy a weed is by the roots.

The war on drugs has done way more harm than any drug can. Look at the state of Mexico and the other central American countries, then travel over to the Afghanistan, then go the USA where they have more people in prison than any other country. Now come back and tell me why we are killing thousands of people every year for the last several decades with no win for the "good" guys trying to ban some drugs, and the "good" guys placing hundreds of thousands of people into prison for small amounts.

Do you think that thousands of deaths annually is OK in a fight that can never be won?

Then try Spain and see how their process is working.

Subcomandante Marcos

Del2005 wrote: »

The war on drugs has done way more harm than any drug can. Look at the state of Mexico and the other central American countries, then travel over to the Afghanistan, then go the USA where they have more people in prison than any other country*. Now come back and tell me why we are killing thousands of people every year for the last several decades with no win for the "good" guys trying to ban some drugs, and the "good" guys placing hundreds of thousands of people into prison for small amounts.

Do you think that thousands of deaths annually is OK in a fight that can never be won?

Then try Spain and see how their process is working.

*percapita.

The Bishop Basher

Larbre34 wrote: »

You do know those tens of thousands of small deals for "personal use" come directly or indirectly from the most dangerous of criminals and underpin every aspect of organised crime in Ireland and Europe?

What about all those deals that are harmlessly grown in people’s attics and bedrooms all over the country. It’s literally just a weed. You can grow it anywhere. Stop talking bollix.

Larbre34 wrote: »

Boll0x to decriminalisation. Possession should be a 3 strike custodial scale. Boll0x to soft-touch and boll0x to rehabilitation. The easiest way to destroy a weed is by the roots.

Only one problem with your “suggestion”. It’s been an abject failure not just here but across the globe lwhile wastng billions and destroying lives.

You will never destroy weed through prohibition. Never.

Just wondering, do you drink alcohol ?

Desktopper

Patww79 wrote: »

Should be focusing on crushing anyone caught using and not even contemplating letting them off.

Dissolve them in acid

kuntboy

Larbre34 wrote: »

political analyst wrote: »

The following article was published on 11 November 2015.

https://www.herald.ie/news/decriminalisation-of-drug-use-a-solo-run-by-labour-says-fg-34188881.htmlhttps://www.herald.ie/news/decriminalisation-of-drug-use-a-solo-run-by-labour-says-fg-34188881.html



Whatever about what Fine Gael people think of the idea of decriminalising possession of illegal drugs in cases where the amount is small enough for personal use, I wonder why the Gardaí are opposed to the Labour idea. After all, I thought the Gardaí would be delighted not to have to arrest young people who they catch being in possession of small amounts of illegal drugs for personal use so that the Gardaí can focus on bringing dangerous criminals to justice.

You do know those tens of thousands of small deals for "personal use" come directly or indirectly from the most dangerous of criminals and underpin every aspect of organised crime in Ireland and Europe?

Boll0x to decriminalisation. Possession should be a 3 strike custodial scale. Boll0x to soft-touch and boll0x to rehabilitation. The easiest way to destroy a weed is by the roots.

People want to get high to escape this mundane plane of existence. They always have and always will. What fockin business of yours is it what they choose to put in their own bodies?

The Bishop Basher

_Brian wrote: »

Exactly this.
Because it’s difficult and time consuming to police something doesn’t mean we make it legal

No but the fact that it’s been a total failure should give us reason to rethink. Some of the more progresssive countries already have and their policies are working.

We like to call ourselves progressive so lets demonstrate that through removing this ridiculously expensive and failed “war on drugs”.

We could wipe out the cash flow for criminal gangs with the strike of a pen if we wanted to.

Makes you wonder why we don’t.

_Brian

We can pretend all we want that individual use has no negative side.

However if we regularise personal use tuere will be a further explosion in criminal activity to supply this need.

These are hard line criminals were encouraging into the jurisdiction to conduct their business. Remember these are the supply routes for all illegal drugs.

The next call will to legalise supply routes, then where are we going as a nation as we will just become a complete ****hole third world country and we will need to continually lower our standards to satisfy the pro drug lobbyists.

Desktopper

Swanner wrote: »

No but the fact that it’s been a total failure should give us reason to rethink. Some of the more progresssive countries already have and their policies are working.

We like to call ourselves progressive so lets demonstrate that through removing this ridiculously expensive and failed “war on drugs”.

We could wipe out the cash flow for criminal gangs with the strike of a pen if we wanted to.

Makes you wonder why we don’t.

I agree the politicians instinct is to declare war

An obvious problem with legalizing hard drugs is that the state has then to oversee the production of previously illegal narcotics and is responsible for the welfare of the addicts it supplies and the new addicts that come on stream.

Any gaps in the market left by the state will continue to be met by traffickers

AndyBoBandy

Swanner wrote: »

Some of the more progresssive countries already have and their policies are working.

And even America, which was a big shock, but look at the positives already being reported. Massive bumps to state taxes which is all being pumped back into healthcare, massive workload being taken off the police forces, allowing them to focus more of their efforts on crimes with victims etc..

Desktopper

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

And even America, which was a big shock, but look at the positives already being reported. Massive bumps to state taxes which is all being pumped back into healthcare, massive workload being taken off the police forces, allowing them to focus more of their efforts on crimes with victims etc..

Ya but that's only cannabis and it's all good so far

What happens when it comes to the hard stuff,that's where it gets trickier

Subcomandante Marcos

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

And even America, which was a big shock, but look at the positives already being reported. Massive bumps to state taxes which is all being pumped back into healthcare, massive workload being taken off the police forces, allowing them to focus more of their efforts on crimes with victims etc..

And massive saving in the cost of prosecuting crimes, imprisoning offenders, and policing parolees.

AndyBoBandy

_Brian wrote: »

However if we regularise personal use tuere will be a further explosion in criminal activity to supply this need.

Or the government could issue out strictly controlled & monitored licences to produce the stuff, where by it will be produced a lot cheaper than the illegally imported stuff could ever be produced/imported for.

The 2 most harmful drugs on the planet are Nicotine & Alcohol. How much revenue does the state receive from these killer drugs? And why aren’t they banned yet?

Tigger

Desktopper wrote: »

Ya but that's only cannabis and it's all good so far

What happens when it comes to the hard stuff,that's where it gets trickier

You think cannabis is a gateway legislation ?

The Bishop Basher

_Brian wrote: »

We can pretend all we want that individual use has no negative side.

Do you drink alcohol ?

Beta Ray Bill

They only way to tackle drug issues in Ireland is to eliminate demand.

So long as there is demand, there will always be someone will to take the risk to supply.

"Personal Use" or not, there should be a mandatory prison sentence for being caught with drugs (week or two). And hopefully people will learn not to be thick as bricks.

We have a legal drug in this country called alcohol, they can just use that.
That being said this country has a huge problem with this "Legal drug", legalising other drugs for personal use will make things work

The Bishop Basher

grahambo wrote: »

They only way to tackle drug issues in Ireland is to eliminate demand.

So what are you proposing. We just eliminate people like in the Philippines

grahambo wrote: »

We have a legal drug in this country called alcohol, they can just use that.

That has to be by far the most moronic statement I have ever read in any debate on this issue, ever.

Larbre34

kuntboy wrote: »

People want to get high to escape this mundane plane of existence. They always have and always will. What fockin business of yours is it what they choose to put in their own bodies?

When they burgle my elderly aunts house and mug my young male cousin with a blade to feed their habits, it makes it my "fockin" business. And i dont give a shyte what drug it was they were trying to get from those robberies, hash featured somewhere on their CV

Larbre34

Swanner wrote: »

Just wondering, do you drink alcohol ?

Certainly. Purchased by earned income at outlets where it is legally retailed and consumed by me at a rate far less than would affect my work or home life.

So?

bodice ripper

Larbre34 wrote:

Certainly. Purchased by earned income at outlets where it is legally retailed and consumed by me at a rate far less than would affect my work or home life.

Grand. I did that in the Netherlands. No problem.

Arrival

Larbre34 wrote: »

You do know those tens of thousands of small deals for "personal use" come directly or indirectly from the most dangerous of criminals and underpin every aspect of organised crime in Ireland and Europe?

Boll0x to decriminalisation. Possession should be a 3 strike custodial scale. Boll0x to soft-touch and boll0x to rehabilitation. The easiest way to destroy a weed is by the roots.

Thank God you are not in power in politics, you are highly illogical and irrational

Franz Von Peppercorn

How many people have been jailed for possession recently. It’s defacto legal to shoot up in Dublin. Any law won’t change anything.

Wanderer78

grahambo wrote:

They only way to tackle drug issues in Ireland is to eliminate demand.

Again, Strangely enough, humans have always consumed mind altering substances since we ve walked the planet, and this will continue until the end of our species, locking people up will not change this, so I guess we better just get building more jail's.

Arrival

grahambo wrote: »

They only way to tackle drug issues in Ireland is to eliminate demand.

So long as there is demand, there will always be someone will to take the risk to supply.

"Personal Use" or not, there should be a mandatory prison sentence for being caught with drugs (week or two). And hopefully people will learn not to be thick as bricks.

We have a legal drug in this country called alcohol, they can just use that.
That being said this country has a huge problem with this "Legal drug", legalising other drugs for personal use will make things work

Drugs are too great for your stupid idea here to work. Humans are always going to engage in recreational drug use, and why do you think that is? Because, you probably do not realise this, some of them are legitimately amazing and certain drugs are actually beneficial to a human when consumed correctly. For example, look at Ketamine. I'm sure just reading the name has you triggered, thinking it's a hard drug that only 'wasters' would use. The reality is, that drug has literally stopped suicidal people from killing themselves as it helped them with their depression. And it's beginning to be used clinically for this same reason. Reconsider your approach using logic and reasoning, thanks.

Beta Ray Bill

Swanner wrote: »

So what are you proposing. We just eliminate people like in the Philippines

No, that's not what I said.
I said a week or two in prison... IE please take this as a warning to no be thick!

Swanner wrote: »

That has to be by far the most moronic statement I have ever read in any debate on this issue, ever.

No it's not.
Drugs are drugs, if you want to chill have a few pints, if you want a buzz have a few vodkas/whiskeys, or have a few gins if fancy talking sh*te for a few hours. It's all the same.
Alcohol is easy to regulate and difficult to get past customs.
Compare the amount of bootleg cigarettes to the number of bootleg alcohol seizures made in the last few years and you'll see what I mean.

This country has enough problems with "Drugs", the absolute last thing we need to do is legalise more of them.

Wanderer78

grahambo wrote:

This country has enough problems with "Drugs", the absolute last thing we need to do is legalise more of them.

So jailing people will solve this problem?

Arrival

Larbre34 wrote: »

Certainly. Purchased by earned income at outlets where it is legally retailed and consumed by me at a rate far less than would affect my work or home life.

So?

Remember how alcohol was treated during prohibition? That's how drugs are currently treated. Isn't the current treatment of alcohol far better since you can walk into a shop knowing they're licensed to sell it, they pay tax on your purchases, you can see its origins, you can read its contents, feel secure knowing it was produced cleanly and professionally etc. All of this even though alcohol is one of the most harmful drugs in existence. It's fascinating stuff.

Do you see where we're going here?

Arrival

grahambo wrote: »

No, that's not what I said.
I said a week or two in prison... IE please take this as a warning to no be thick!



No it's not.
Drugs are drugs, if you want to chill have a few pints, if you want a buzz have a few vodkas/whiskeys, or have a few gins if fancy talking sh*te for a few hours. It's all the same.
Alcohol is easy to regulate and difficult to get past customs.
Compare the amount of bootleg cigarettes to the number of bootleg alcohol seizures made in the last few years and you'll see what I mean.

This country has enough problems with "Drugs", the absolute last thing we need to do is legalise more of them.

I think I'll go with choosing what I want to do with my own body as I'm an educated and informed adult, thanks

grahambo

grahambo wrote: »

No it's not.
Drugs are drugs, if you want to chill have a few pints, if you want a buzz have a few vodkas/whiskeys, or have a few gins if fancy talking sh*te for a few hours. It's all the same.
Alcohol is easy to regulate and difficult to get past customs.
Compare the amount of bootleg cigarettes to the number of bootleg alcohol seizures made in the last few years and you'll see what I mean.

You're talking out your hole. Double the price of alcohol (which is being proposed) and there'll be an explosion of illegally produced stuff. It happened a few years ago but tapered off as the economy improved and alcohol prices didn't go up. And most of the dodgy fags don't pass a customs post.

Beta Ray Bill

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Again, Strangely enough, humans have always consumed mind altering substances since we ve walked the planet, and this will continue until the end of our species, locking people up will not change this, so I guess we better just get building more jail's.

Completely agreed, however the issue we have now is that they are more and more concentrated to get a bigger high. And that's all fine until some gets so baked they don't even know what they are doing. The big problem is that most illegal drugs don't effect hand eye co-ordination or motor function.
This means someone who's tripping could easily do something violent or dangerous.

Arrival wrote: »

Drugs are too great for your stupid idea here to work. Humans are always going to engage in recreational drug use, and why do you think that is? Because, you probably do not realise this, some of them are legitimately amazing and certain drugs are actually beneficial to a human when consumed correctly. For example, look at Ketamine. I'm sure just reading the name has you triggered, thinking it's a hard drug that only 'wasters' would use. The reality is, that drug has literally stopped suicidal people from killing themselves as it helped them with their depression. And it's beginning to be used clinically for this same reason. Reconsider your approach using logic and reasoning, thanks.

Again we need to attack demand, Why do people feel the need to get this "high"?
And the BIGGEST problem with drugs is that eventually the high from Ketamine isn't enough anymore. So people move onto something else. Coke/Heroin use is at the end of that road.
And there is no way you can argue that a load of coke heads or junkies is good for Ireland
No one starts off doing Ketamine or E or Coke or Heroin.
Everyone starts out doing hash/blow or whatever it's called these days

I've smoked blow once before about 18 years ago, did nothing for me. Mates I had at the time used to do it and only do blow when we were in our late teens. A lot of them are waster coke heads now with some or heroin too.

The problem isn't light drugs, it's where they lead to.
So my idea to nip it in the bud as actually brilliant!

grahambo

grahambo wrote: »

Again we need to attack demand, Why do people feel the need to get this "high"?
And the BIGGEST problem with drugs is that eventually the high from Ketamine isn't enough anymore. So people move onto something else. Coke/Heroin use is at the end of that road.
And there is no way you can argue that a load of coke heads or junkies is good for Ireland
No one starts off doing Ketamine or E or Coke or Heroin.
Everyone starts out doing hash/blow or whatever it's called these days

I've smoked blow once before about 18 years ago, did nothing for me. Mates I had at the time used to do it and only do blow when we were in our late teens. A lot of them are waster coke heads now with some or heroin too.

The problem is light drugs, it's where they lead to.
So my idea to nip it in the bud as actually brilliant!

Most will have alcohol and/or cigarettes before the rest. Most will have an energy drink or McDonalds before that.

Beta Ray Bill

Deleted User wrote: »

You're talking out your hole. Double the price of alcohol (which is being proposed) and there'll be an explosion of illegally produced stuff. It happened a few years ago but tapered off as the economy improved and alcohol prices didn't go up. And most of the dodgy fags don't pass a customs post.

Obviously it's not the case with beer.

But you'd need to be absolutely thick, like properly stupid as f*ck to even consider drinking bootleg spirits, for the sake of saving a few euro. :rolleyes:

In any case, people just pay in this country now. You could raise tax on booze more and more and they'd all still just pay. That alone is proof of the problem this country has with drugs.

Wanderer78

grahambo wrote:

The problem is light drugs, it's where they lead to. So my idea to nip it in the bud as actually brilliant!

Do you really think this is possible, as I believe this has been one of the main aims of tackling the drug trade for decades now, and supply has actually increased? This is an unwinnable war, some humans just want to consume, and probably will always want to, and there will always be suppliers, for obvious reasons, it's time to change tactics, as all we re doing is wasting time, money and resources by our current approaches.

Beta Ray Bill

Deleted User wrote: »

Most will have alcohol and/or cigarettes before the rest. Most will have an energy drink or McDonalds before that.

Most of the people I know, will have a drink but won't do drugs.
So I'll disagree with you on that one.

grahambo

grahambo wrote: »

Obviously it's not the case with beer.

But you'd need to be absolutely thick, like properly stupid as f*ck to even consider drinking bootleg spirits, for the sake of saving a few euro. :rolleyes:

Except that the people buying it can't always know. Not far from me there were at least 3 places bottling "Smirnoff" for years before getting done.

In any case, people just pay in this country now. You could raise tax on booze more and more and they'd all still just pay. That alone is proof of the problem this country has with drugs.

If minimum pricing comes in pricing will double for the cheapest drinks. "Premium" brands will also go up (why charge the same for Carlsberg as Galahad?

grahambo

grahambo wrote: »

Most of the people I know, will have a drink but won't do drugs.
So I'll disagree with you on that one.

You're disagreeing with something I didn't say.

MadYaker

grahambo wrote: »

No, that's not what I said.
I said a week or two in prison... IE please take this as a warning to no be thick!



No it's not.
Drugs are drugs, if you want to chill have a few pints, if you want a buzz have a few vodkas/whiskeys, or have a few gins if fancy talking sh*te for a few hours. It's all the same.
Alcohol is easy to regulate and difficult to get past customs.
Compare the amount of bootleg cigarettes to the number of bootleg alcohol seizures made in the last few years and you'll see what I mean.

This country has enough problems with "Drugs", the absolute last thing we need to do is legalise more of them.

If the price of drink was increased to the same extent as cigarettes you’d see a similar black market. If I wanted to I could open my laptop right now and order any drug I want on the dark net and it will arrive through my letterbox next Monday thanks to the wonderful service provided by An Post. It’s just like ordering something on amazon. Hundreds of thousands of kilos of drugs are imported into this country every year. Prohibition isn’t working, it has never worked and it will never work. So why not try a different approach? Building more prisons and locking more people up isn’t going to solve anything. The government can’t even keep drugs out of the prisons ffs.

Rory28

Weed will eventually be legalised but I feel like Ireland will be one of the last to do so in Europe. Will be a great day when it happens.