The horrific death of Ana Kriegel

J Mysterio

TomOnBoard wrote: »

We didn't tolerate that culture of bullying???

We bloody institutionalised it!!

I clearly remember my school days of 50 years ago!!

I guess I was referring more to my own school days in the 90's, and not the Christian Brothers or Magdalene Laundry abuses. None of that social media shıte then.

TomOnBoard

J Mysterio wrote: »

I guess I was referring more to my own school days in the 90's, and not the Christian Brothers or Magdalene Laundry abuses. None of that social media shıte then.

Yeah. I get that. I do agree that social media bullying is a modern social poison!

BettyBoo2011

Why is it taking so long to make an arrest I wonder if things are as clear cut as the media were making out? It said preliminary DNA results were back yesterday so I thought there might be arrests today.... then Sunday the new story came out the boy was saying he was attacked by 2 men which of course sounded like a defence story to me but who knows I guess...

Is it possible it’s not the 13 year old boy (with or without other accomplices?)? It seemed to be fairly clear, solely based on what I was reading which could of course been wrong, but thought it would have been easier for them to push on with arresting him if so?

Please god let them catch the person/people who did this soon.

BettyBoo2011

BettyBoo2011 wrote: »

Why is it taking so long to make an arrest I wonder if things are as clear cut as the media were making out? It said preliminary DNA results were back yesterday so I thought there might be arrests today.... then Sunday the new story came out the boy was saying he was attacked by 2 men which of course sounded like a defence story to me but who knows I guess...

Is it possible it’s not the 13 year old boy (with or without other accomplices?)? It seemed to be fairly clear, solely based on what I was reading which could of course been wrong, but thought it would have been easier for them to push on with arresting him if so?

Please god let them catch the person/people who did this soon.

DNA results not expected until tomorrow at the earliest.

Chuck_Norris

BettyBoo2011 wrote: »

Why is it taking so long to make an arrest I wonder if things are as clear cut as the media were making out? It said preliminary DNA results were back yesterday so I thought there might be arrests today.... then Sunday the new story came out the boy was saying he was attacked by 2 men which of course sounded like a defence story to me but who knows I guess...

Is it possible it’s not the 13 year old boy (with or without other accomplices?)? It seemed to be fairly clear, solely based on what I was reading which could of course been wrong, but thought it would have been easier for them to push on with arresting him if so?

Please god let them catch the person/people who did this soon.

Better to have it done right, than done quickly.

TomOnBoard

BettyBoo2011 wrote: »

Why is it taking so long to make an arrest I wonder if things are as clear cut as the media were making out? It said preliminary DNA results were back yesterday so I thought there might be arrests today.... then Sunday the new story came out the boy was saying he was attacked by 2 men which of course sounded like a defence story to me but who knows I guess...

Is it possible it’s not the 13 year old boy (with or without other accomplices?)? It seemed to be fairly clear, solely based on what I was reading which could of course been wrong, but thought it would have been easier for them to push on with arresting him if so?

Please god let them catch the person/people who did this soon.

They're going nowhere! It's far better for the Gardai to be right than quick at this stage!

Greyfox

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I don't see any judge in this country locking them up for the rest of their life. So perhaps, with that in mind, some rehabilitation efforts might not be the worst idea!?

The priority should always be punishment, the safety of the public is the most important thing, rehabilitation costs more money and might not work, the longer someone's behind bars the less time we have to spend wondering if they will reoffend

Beechwoodspark

The harder the time is, you’d hope the more of a deterrent it is. The softly softly approach doesn’t work.

Ken.

I'd imagine its not easy to compel a DNA test from a minor and the gardai are dotting all the i's etc. Imagine the backlash if it all got kicked out on a technicality.

screamer

Electric Sheep wrote: »

screamer wrote: »

Torture them? Too soft. Lethal injection would be adequate for them after savagely killing a child in this way.
Our society would be far better off to be rid of murderous scumbags than giving them Xboxes in prison both financially and actually.
Oh just for ****s and giggles...what does keeping them alive in prison actually contribute to our society outside of some limp wristed justice?

If the rumour that the perpetrators are 13 is true, then they are also children, and in fact a year younger than the victim. So lethal injection would also be killing a child.

Also, I think the fact that the victim was actually a peer rather than a younger child complicates the issue.

Really... I'd not heard that
Still begs the question at what age children should be held to account for what they do. They commit an adult crime they should face an adult punishment.

ThinkProgress

Greyfox wrote: »

The priority should always be punishment, the safety of the public is the most important thing, rehabilitation costs more money and might not work, the longer someone's behind bars the less time we have to spend wondering if they will reoffend

Right... but we know there is very little chance of them doing serious time. Not in this country!

They'll be back on the streets at some point. And without any rehabilitation efforts, what happens to the safety of the public at that point?

Happy4all

Putinbot wrote: »

I'd imagine its not easy to compel a DNA test from a minor and the gardai are dotting all the i's etc. Imagine the backlash if it all got kicked out on a technicality.

Heard he will be charged Thursday. Going to be hard for his family to remain in the area. Guards prepping them for media assault no doubt.

Snake Plisken

There was no remorse shown by these thugs, they left her there for 3 days went about their daily life without worrying about getting caught! Rehabilitation my hole! They might get out in 5 to 10 years my hope is they will pick on the wrong person and get what they deserve. I’m sure her death being discussed by the Russian community living here and you don’t mess with some of those lads.

Btw when the case is finished I hope they know that farmhouse and barn to the ground.

Ken.

Happy4all wrote: »

Heard he will be charged Thursday. Going to be hard for his family to remain in the area. Guards prepping them for media assault no doubt.

Minor involved, surely s/he can't be named or anything about his/her family etc.

Chuck_Norris

Putinbot wrote: »

Minor involved, surely s/he can't be named or anything about his/her family etc.

It will come out in the locality, but I would imagine the penalties would be severe for whoever brings it into the public domain.

RacoonQueen

Putinbot wrote: »

Minor involved, surely s/he can't be named or anything about his/her family etc.

Would imagine anyone that knows him or the girl already know who it is - the media can't name, but the law can't stop gossip. He'd have been out of school, parents out of work etc

BettyBoo2011

TomOnBoard wrote: »

They're going nowhere! It's far better for the Gardai to be right than quick at this stage!

Very true. Apologies it was just the media hype probably insinuating there would be an arrest yesterday... god love the family, every minute must be hell. I hope they will be able to at least lay her to rest soon.

Heres Johnny

Snake Plisken wrote: »

There was no remorse shown by these thugs, they left her there for 3 days went about their daily life without worrying about getting caught! Rehabilitation my hole! They might get out in 5 to 10 years my hope is they will pick on the wrong person and get what they deserve. I’m sure her death being discussed by the Russian community living here and you don’t mess with some of those lads.

Btw when the case is finished I hope they know that farmhouse and barn to the ground.

Was just thinking it should be knocked down alright to stop it becoming a kind of perverse pilgrimage site for local kids

Happy4all

Chuck_Norris wrote: »

It will come out in the locality, but I would imagine the penalties would be severe for whoever brings it into the public domain.

Everybody local knows already.

Brae100

My concern has started to shift to the families of the suspects. There were people there who suspected something and did not report it.

TheChosenOne_

Brae100 wrote: »

My concern has started to shift to the families of the suspects. There were people there who suspected something and did not report it.

Give over would you. What parents would ever suspect that their 13/14 year old child would be capable of doing such a thing.

iamwhoiam

TheChosenOne_ wrote: »

Give over would you. What parents would ever suspect that their 13/14 year old child would be capable of doing such a thing.

It would definitely not be unheard of that a parent covered up for a child

SEPT 23 1989

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It would definitely not be unheard of that a parent covered up for a child

You would lay down your life for them

But this is so fcuked up you would have to turn your back on them

turning your back on your own child must be horrendous experience

TheChosenOne_

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It would definitely not be unheard of that a parent covered up for a child

Must be so tough for the parents on both sides of this. Lives ruined forever

Easygame1

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

You would lay down your life for them

But this is so fcuked up you would have to turn your back on them

turning your back on your own child must be horrendous experience

Im aware the child's suspect brought his bloodied t shirt to Gardai last Thursday night when news broke she had been murdered in St Cathrines Park.

Does anyone know the number of children involved? I live locally and have heard many names so far this week which seems to be narrowed down to two definite suspects and two more who are still not in the clear? All are kids and its becoming obvious by whos not showing up in <snip> for classes.



Not looking for names or any info other than the number of alleged attackers or accomplices.

Mod note: NO IDENTIFYING INFORMATION, PLEASE!

Buford T. Justice

bessboroughboy

In my opinion this is a heinous act which has no recent, national precedent. It is off the scale. An atrocity of this nature is not a product of any shortcoming in Irish contemporary society; it is the action of one or more toxic, depraved, abominable individuals who are so far removed from social and moral norms that they can hardly be considered human.

Counselling? Rehabilitation?

Ridiculous, prison for life and throw away the key.

Any futile attempt to "understand" the perpetrator's actions risks creating a new syndrome such as the school shootings in the US which have become a sort of blueprint for a particular type of disconnected, low self esteem male to follow.

iamwhoiam

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

You would lay down your life for them

But this is so fcuked up you would have to turn your back on them

turning your back on your own child must be horrendous experience

I would definitely not cover fot mine but it would not be unheard that some would

corner of hells

bessboroughboy wrote: »

In my opinion this is a heinous act which has no recent, national precedent. It is off the scale. Atrocities of this nature are not a product of any shortcoming in Irish contemporary society; they are the actions of toxic, depraved, abominable individuals who are so far removed from social and moral norms that they can hardly be considered human.

Counselling? Rehabilitation?

Ridiculous, prison for life and throw away the key.

Any futile attempt to "understand" the perpetrator's actions risks creating a new syndrome such as the school shootings in the US which have become a sort of blueprint for a particular type of disconnected, low self esteem male to follow.

I'm just 50 now , I witnessed a fight when I was 12 during which a child lost his life from his injuries .Not quite the same as what happened in St Catherine's but horrific enough to give me nightmares.

It happens , very occasionally that another side to society appears with extremes of violence and depravity.

bessboroughboy

corner of hells wrote: »

I'm just 50 now , I witnessed a fight when I was 12 during which a child lost his life from his injuries .Not quite the same as what happened in St Catherine's but horrific enough to give me nightmares.

It happens , very occasionally that another side to society appears with extremes of violence and depravity.

I suppose I'm trying to say that society didn't cause this, although it couldn't have happened outside of the societal context.
Society is mirroring peoples' states of mind rather than shaping them to such a drastic extent that they descend into pure evil.
I would be traumatised by what you witnessed also but I'm sure you didn't subsequently despair of the world and lose all empathy for others.

Brae100

TheChosenOne_ wrote: »

Give over would you. What parents would ever suspect that their 13/14 year old child would be capable of doing such a thing.

The sort of parents who had their child come home covered in blood while knowing there was a missing person investigation ongoing, while their child knew the missing person. Sort of parents who had to wait for the obvious suspects to be traced instead of volunteering information. Are they a skanger family moved out from a council area?

bessboroughboy

bessboroughboy wrote: »

In my opinion this is a heinous act which has no recent, national precedent. It is off the scale. An atrocity of this nature is not a product of any shortcoming in Irish contemporary society; it is the action of one or more toxic, depraved, abominable individuals who are so far removed from social and moral norms that they can hardly be considered human.

Counselling? Rehabilitation?

Ridiculous, prison for life and throw away the key.

Any futile attempt to "understand" the perpetrator's actions risks creating a new syndrome such as the school shootings in the US which have become a sort of blueprint for a particular type of disconnected, low self esteem male to follow.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/waterford-man-gets-life-sentence-after-being-found-guilty-of-murder-1.2145986
I was in secondary school with the guy who the above article is about. He was murdered with a block and I won't go into details but he was tortured before he was finally killed.

There is plenty of heinous acts similar to this in the past and there will be again in the future Unfortunately there will always be sick fcuks around.

When I hear stories like this I can't help but worry about my own daughter. R.I.P to Ana and hopefully whoever did this is never released from prison.

RacoonQueen

TheChosenOne_ wrote: »

Give over would you. What parents would ever suspect that their 13/14 year old child would be capable of doing such a thing.

Would imagine they would have been in denial more than anything "My Luke/Johnny/whatever would never be involved in something like this".
The feeling as you put it all together as a parent of a suspect is unimaginable.

corner of hells

bessboroughboy wrote: »

I suppose I'm trying to say that society didn't cause this, although it couldn't have happened outside of the societal context.
Society is mirroring peoples' states of mind rather than shaping them to such a drastic extent that they descend into pure evil.
I would be traumatised by what you witnessed also but I'm sure you didn't subsequently despair of the world and lose all empathy for others.

I really don't know what your talking about.

J Mysterio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/waterford-man-gets-life-sentence-after-being-found-guilty-of-murder-1.2145986

Jesus christ that is grotesque. 'This is out of American History X'? Oh.

pjohnson

These murderers will just move to another county and continue happily with their lives. Unless they do the same crime once over 18 they can get away scott free thanks to rubbish anonymity rule.

iamwhoiam

pjohnson wrote: »

These murderers will just move to another county and continue happily with their lives. Unless they do the same crime once over 18 they can get away scott free thanks to rubbish anonymity rule.

I doubt that . Ireland is a very small place. Someone always knows someone

corner of hells

pjohnson wrote: »

These murderers will just move to another county and continue happily with their lives. Unless they do the same crime once over 18 they can get away scott free thanks to rubbish anonymity rule.

The kid in the example I gave ended up going completely of his head , multiple suicide attempts , alcoholism , sleeping rough , dysfunctional relationships.

No idea where he is now.

CeilingFly

pjohnson wrote: »

These murderers will just move to another county and continue happily with their lives. Unless they do the same crime once over 18 they can get away scott free thanks to rubbish anonymity rule.

Not a chance.

such thoughts are usually based on hysterical media reports that people think apply to every situation.

The media will generally only report issues that allow for creation of hysteria. This week is a classic example when you compare the two equally horrific deaths.

If you did a study on square inches of newsprint the Mark Hennessey murder would have multiple times the coverage because it had far more sensationalism attached.


On Ana's murder, with the amount of violence kids are exposed to, its almost surprising this is the first time a death has occurred and you can almost see the defence saying he did not realise his actions would kill her as in the movies they always survive.

As for his parents - a rock and a hard place and something that will affect them deeply no matter what social economic background they are from.

Monumental

J Mysterio wrote: »

I guess I was referring more to my own school days in the 90's, and not the Christian Brothers or Magdalene Laundry abuses. None of that social media shıte then.

Totally agree ,my daughter was bullied ,threatened ,abused ,and thrown over a six foot wall,she attended a local festival and only for a local pub owner taking care of her she may not be here to tell the tale She was fifteen and her bullies were girls of the same age

DaveTheLad

Brae100 wrote: »

The sort of parents who had their child come home covered in blood while knowing there was a missing person investigation ongoing, while their child knew the missing person. Sort of parents who had to wait for the obvious suspects to be traced instead of volunteering information. Are they a skanger family moved out from a council area?

Better skangers than snobs who look down their nose at people. You know nothing about the investigation, give it a rest

Sunflower 27

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Normally, I would completely agree...

However, considering how young they are, it is an absolute certainty that they will be walking the streets again at some point in their life. And probably still young enough to be a danger to the public!

I don't see any judge in this country locking them up for the rest of their life. So perhaps, with that in mind, some rehabilitation efforts might not be the worst idea!?

It's a horrible reality of the soft-touch liberal country we have built...

Part of their punishment will involve rehabitation, it's par if the course , but the emphasis should be on punishment and they should be absolutely aware of this.

We are far too soft on criminals.. You know the system is broke when so many go on to reoffend because their time inside wasn't that bad.

Sunflower 27

CeilingFly wrote: »

Not a chance.

such thoughts are usually based on hysterical media reports that people think apply to every situation.

The media will generally only report issues that allow for creation of hysteria. This week is a classic example when you compare the two equally horrific deaths.

If you did a study on square inches of newsprint the Mark Hennessey murder would have multiple times the coverage because it had far more sensationalism attached.


On Ana's murder, with the amount of violence kids are exposed to, its almost surprising this is the first time a death has occurred and you can almost see the defence saying he did not realise his actions would kill her as in the movies they always survive.

As for his parents - a rock and a hard place and something that will affect them deeply no matter what social economic background they are from.

I think if Ana's murderer was known, and was a 13 year old, it would be getting more press. Wait till the person responsible is found, that is when sensationalism will kick in.

Regarding the other poor woman, the story really took hold once her killer was shot dead.

I don't think you can compare at this stage. Both are horrific and both have featured heavily.

juno10353

I believe the suspect/s are known within community but as under 18 they can not be identified in any way. A small community attending school together and living in close proximity will be creating it's own powderkeg of emotions. Easy, for example to know who was missing from school etc. Also neighbours seeing police activity in neighbouring houses. And people knowing who is friends with whom and who is bullying or being bullied. Anas parents have called for restraint and for the gardai to be allowed to be supported and allowed do what's needed. We need to respect this, and avoid speculation

juneg

Snake Plisken wrote: »

There was no remorse shown by these thugs, they left her there for 3 days went about their daily life without worrying about getting caught! Rehabilitation my hole!

I find it so upsetting that they left her there for days. mark Hennessy left a note showing more remorse and the location of the body of his victim. That makes these thugs worse than him

realitykeeper

meeeeh wrote: »

When I was 15 a 16 years old girl was found raped and killed in my hometown. The perpetrator was a local kid from a good family. I knew his mother and his brother, they were normal polite quiet people. Well brother is deaf so a bit quieter than most. There was nothing there to make you feel that boy would do what he did.

You never know what happens behind closed doors. I think the kid lacked mentorship. Also, if alcohol was a factor, that is yet another reason we ought to consider prohibition in this country. The Irish can`t handle drink, it`s as simple as that. Every time a crime or an accident happens where alcohol was a causative factor, it reminds me of these school shootings in the USA. How many times must it happen before a total ban is brought in.

realitykeeper

Omackeral wrote: »

Mentor doesn’t come into it.

With respect to the legions who liked this comment, you could not be more wrong. This yerraitwillbegrand type attitude may well explain the state of the nation with its 200,000,000,000.00 euro debt.

Omackeral

realitykeeper wrote: »

With respect to the legions who liked this comment, you could not be more wrong. This yerraitwillbegrand type attitude may well explain the state of the nation with its 200,000,000,000.00 euro debt.

Embarrassing. State of that. Irrelevant agenda driven guff.

Lord Maguire

Did Mark Hennessy have anything to do with this? Are they checking his DNA in case he killed poor Ana?

evolving_doors

realitykeeper wrote: »

With respect to the legions who liked this comment, you could not be more wrong. This yerraitwillbegrand type attitude may well explain the state of the nation with its 200,000,000,000.00 euro debt.

Don't forget Roy Keane in Saipan too !

Lord Maguire

Lord Maguire wrote: »

Did Mark Hennessy have anything to do with this? Are they checking his DNA in case he killed poor Ana?

I'll repeat my question which I believe is very important to this case.