The horrific death of Ana Kriegel

cagefactor

If it is one boy, what sort of young psychopath scumbag are we dealing with - didn't break down and show any remorse when questioned. From reports it sounds like there is a huge amount of DNA. I hope he/they will be in the Joy for the rest of their days which unfortunately in this country won't be that many years.

uck51js9zml2yt

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Fair point. It’s widely assumed that it’s at least two.

But I’d prefer if they were over 18. There’s a part of me thinks they will get treated a bit easier cos they’re kids. And their families will have to leave the area

Don't be surprised to hear that's it's more than 2 and it wasn't planned.
My own feeling is that whatever happened it wasn't planned but something of a lesser degree that got terribly out of control.

I don't live in the area.

Assetbacked

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-confident-of-imminent-arrest-for-ana-kriegel-murder-1.3506061?mode=amp

Irish Times now reporting that an arrest is imminent and also have said that the Gardai have questioned the pupils of Confey College as they believe those that saw her after school can provide valuable assistance.

Putinbot

Putinbot wrote: »

Anyone else pissed off with the thread title. The word tragic to me implies an accident of some sort.

I think someone was thread banned for posting their dislike of the word 'tragic' being used. Some people took him/her up wrong.

Amalgam

Mary Bell comes to mind, when looking at the current situation.

Sadly, people who do commit awful crimes early in their life, do 'recover' and continue their life as an adult. I'm not saying anything about how I perceive that, but, given how small this country is, there's no way they'll stay here once they pass through the system and emerge, in their 20s or whenever.

So messed up.

chicorytip

Astrid Sweet Gong wrote:

Don't be surprised to hear that's it's more than 2 and it wasn't planned. My own feeling is that whatever happened it wasn't planned but something of a lesser degree that got terribly out of control.

cagefactor wrote:

If it is one boy, what sort of young psychopath scumbag are we dealing with - didn't break down and show any remorse when questioned. From reports it sounds like there is a huge amount of DNA. I hope he/they will be in the Joy for the rest of their days which unfortunately in this country won't be that many years.

This is all entirely speculative in the worst tabloid journalistic sense. The identity of the murderer/s is, as of now, unknown, probably even to the investigating gardai.

Seth Brundle

Amalgam wrote: »

Sadly, people who do commit awful crimes early in their life, do 'recover' and continue their life as an adult.

Sadly? You think it's a bad thing that they turn away from the dark side so to speak?

TomOnBoard

chicorytip wrote: »

This is all entirely speculative in the worst tabloid journalistic sense. The identity of the murderer/s is, as of now, unknown, probably even to the investigating gardai.

Yes. Aaand, even when he is charged and appears in court in due course, the identity will remain unknown, as he is a minor. No doubt, it will be known locally, but sure it looks like the identity is already well known in the area, according to many postings here..

Amalgam

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Sadly? You think it's a bad thing that they turn away from the dark side so to speak?

I don't think some people grow out of their psychopathy, they're wired that way. Society needs to be protected from them, not the other way around.

I don't have faith in the Irish judicial system to do that.

Brae100

There is a certain strata of society who will never cooperate with Garda. This seems like that.

D Trent

washman3 wrote: »

That's quite possible.
Or maybe those in the 'higher echelons of power' have decided to drag it out as long as possible so that public anger will be virtually extinguished.
After all, this is definitely Ireland's closest ever case to the Jamie Bulger case in UK.

Let's not forget the tragic case of young John Horgan back in '73, only up the road from where Ana was found.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/inquest-recalls-the-1973-killing-of-a-young-boy-that-shocked-nation-26736031.html

keeponrockin

As much as i am sickened by lots of the crap in this thread at least it has hopefully helped the gardai to nail the scumbags who set out to do this..RIP Ana

Electric Sheep

Caledonia wrote: »

Is the general feeling that it is just one boy who will be charged with the actual murder?

It may be one boy charged with the actual murder, but I would not be at all surprised if the attack was instigated by girls. They/she might not have been present for the act itself, but stirred the pot and set the boys up to do it.

F1fan

Am lying here in bed not able to sleep, feeling very heavy hearted about this poor child and her family, and Jastine and her family.
I have a fourteen year old daughter,and two younger boys, and feel so sad when I think of what Ana’s parents and siblings are going through.
I am also sad about how we all react to things - I know online is not a ‘real’ environment, but it is not just online. News, radio shows etc. I am sick of listening to the bickering and the hatred and the theories and the excuses.
There’s no point in wringing hands and lamenting modern life. Cruelty and violence always existed. Of course people are going to be angry - I am angry about the scum who killed these two women, I am angry watching that Mullins eegit earlier on Tv, I am angry that there is so much CRAP everyday to wade through.
Mostly though I am angry and sad that kindness seems to be disappearing.Bullying, abuse, violence are common, but can we all just try being f@&king nicer to each other? Basic decency and kindness would make a difference.
(Obv. Not saying this horrific incident was due to people not being ‘nice’, I think they are scum. Just wish Ana hadn’t had to know bullying and sadness while she was alive.)

TomOnBoard

Electric Sheep wrote: »

It may be one boy charged with the actual murder, but I would not be at all surprised if the attack was instigated by girls. They/she might not have been present for the act itself, but stirred the pot and set the boys up to do it.

A number of charges will be available to be considered by the State in the case, if a number of people with varying degrees of culpability are involved.

TomOnBoard

F1fan wrote: »

Am lying here in bed not able to sleep, feeling very heavy hearted about this poor child and her family, and Jastine and her family.
I have a fourteen year old daughter,and two younger boys, and feel so sad when I think of what Ana’s parents and siblings are going through.
I am also sad about how we all react to things - I know online is not a ‘real’ environment, but it is not just online. News, radio shows etc. I am sick of listening to the bickering and the hatred and the theories and the excuses.
There’s no point in wringing hands and lamenting modern life. Cruelty and violence always existed. Of course people are going to be angry - I am angry about the scum who killed these two women, I am angry watching that Mullins eegit earlier on Tv, I am angry that there is so much CRAP everyday to wade through.
Mostly though I am angry and sad that kindness seems to be disappearing.Bullying, abuse, violence are common, but can we all just try being f@&king nicer to each other? Basic decency and kindness would make a difference.
(Obv. Not saying this horrific incident was due to people not being ‘nice’, I think they are scum. Just wish Ana hadn’t had to know bullying and sadness while she was alive.)

I hear ya. And I agree with 98% of what you wrote. At times like this, any person who feels empathy towards the range of victims in these 2 awful attacks and killings will suffer. And it can get you down.

All this can add to the other non-stop pressure and noise of just getting on with life while we're being assaulted by external crap from the news, mortgages, Trump, Korea, 8th Amendment vitriol, and a thousand other things. But you know what? Sometimes we simply care and give too much, more than we are capable of giving. Yes, we absolutely should all be "f@&king nicer to each other". But first, we should be "f@&king nicer to" ourselves! And what I mean by that is to pull our own horns in...

Stop receiving... Don't watch the news for a month.. Go out for a walk instead.. Log out from the bad, pressure inducing social media... Put down the phone... Turn on message minder and switch the phone on twice a day for a hour each time to return calls... Read a book...Most important, buy 2 Board Games and set aside one night every week where ye all play the board game for a couple of hours and have a bit of fun together..

If we all did more of that we would all be better able to deal with the stuff.

And then we might be better able to try to be "f@&king nicer to each other"!

RacoonQueen

Kindness isn't disappearing. Women living in Ireland are no less safe today than they were two weeks ago. Nice people who do nice, selfless things for people are all around us.
Real men, real men are great. I've said this so much over the last few months between the Belfast trial and and now these two murders.
We have so many more real men around us than we do misogynistic, entitled assholes. We have more men around us that would jump to protect us from scum like Hennessy and like whoever it was that murder Ana. Women too, who would have jumped in and helped either of them had they had the chance.

Real kindness is all around us, we just don't see it or notice it as much because it's such a normal part of everyday life.

Kindness is the person who is pulling of their parking spot as you pull in and hands you their parking ticket.
Kindness is all the volunteers who help out for charities.
Kindness is the colleague who shouts you your morning/afternoon coffee.
Kindness is the colleague who randomly brings a few cakes back for your team from the shop.
Kindness is the many, many people who cook up food, collect clothing and stand in the cold for hours during winter nights to help feed, clothe and give comfort to the homeless.
Kindness is the people who runs to help pick you up when you trip over the footpath, take a spill on your bike etc
Kindness is the friend who opts for meeting up at a time that doesn't suit at all but they know it suits you in your hectic life
Kindness is all the people offering help on #hometovote on twitter (on both sides) read that hashtag and see if you can avoid welling up.
Could go on...

There are so, so many random acts of kindness going on every second of every day. So much more than than sh*t like this. We don't see it and don't appreciate it because we expect people to be nice.

Rechuchote

Ar dheis Dé go raibh a h-anam dílis. Poor little darling. I think every family and every single person in Ireland would like to reach out and put their arms around the little mite.

F1fan wrote: »

Mostly though I am angry and sad that kindness seems to be disappearing.

I don't think it is. I think people are angry and stressed, and we've lost that "Ah, sure, what matter" attitude and need to reclaim it - especially in how we behave towards each other on the roads - but there's the most extraordinary kindness out there.

The Celtic Tiger and the austerity years led to a merciless attitude to others, a nasty, judgmental, vicious hunting streak that did not show a good or kind side of the Irish - but the basic kindness and respect is still in there and we can reclaim it.

backspin.

rusty cole wrote: »

Kids have always been little swines, we all were

I wasn't, I never bullied anyone. I always tried to intervene in bullying when I came across it and I still do.

threetrees

Snake Plisken wrote: »

I thought that school had a good name, students from Lucan get bused there everyday.
Sounds like a bully culture exists there and the Principle hasn’t stamped it out so they should be questioned about their lack of action.

Students get bussed to Confey from Lucan because they fall outside the catchment area for the already oversubscribed Lucan schools. It is nothing to do with reputation.

sbsquarepants

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Why children kill, never shown love or affection, and now we have some people saying it's the schools fault.
It's not, it's the children's. I don't care about upbringing or environment, they have to be very harshly punished.
So does anyone that knew about this and didn't stop it or report it, including fellow classmates and family members, if they did that is.

People tend to forget the fact that some kids are just cúnts.

It's a long time since I was in school, I was never bullied or don't even know anyone who was - but there where a few kids there that were just best avoided because they were vicious little bastards even at 12 /13 years old. Any of them that I still know of haven't changed one iota, they've just gone from bad to worse. 1 was jailed for slashing a tourist womans face, another for rape, another for breaking into an old couples house and battering them in a robbery, the list goes on. It was apparent as teens / pre teens even that these people were just scum. Some people are just rotten plain and simple - they are beyond help. These aren't cold blooded psychopaths or anything like that, the irony is that most "cold blooded" psychopaths are fairly harmless - these people are just scumbags and arseholes.

If your kids are being bullied - make sure you stop it, by any means necessary.

F1fan

Tomonboard, I couldn’t agree with you more. You are right that it is good to stop ‘receiving’ the negativity. I have a frontline job that throws up many upsetting/difficult situations, and out of necessity I have to be somewhat ‘detached’and not overthink things. Last night though, seeing that little girl on her YouTube video, laughing and messing, the sadness of it all got to me. I don’t want to wallow, and it would be easy to say ‘ah sure, it is all fecked’, I think it is much better to accept there was always bad stuff, will always be bad stuff, and it is up to each of us to try improve our own little worlds in some way.

RaccoonQueen, I think you are right that there are many kind people out there. Maybe last night was just showing all the negatives to me. I agreed that every day lots of people are decent and kind. Sometimes it seems that there is maybe just more of tendency for situations to escalate, and a fear among people of things that are different. Also, a lot of very opinionated people without a lot of acceptance.

corner of hells

threetrees wrote: »

Students get bussed to Confey from Lucan because they fall outside the catchment area for the already oversubscribed Lucan schools. It is nothing to do with reputation.

If anything , kids were bussed from Leixlip to Lucan .

tayto lover

Electric Sheep wrote: »

It may be one boy charged with the actual murder, but I would not be at all surprised if the attack was instigated by girls. They/she might not have been present for the act itself, but stirred the pot and set the boys up to do it.

That's my belief too.

Heres Johnny

corner of hells wrote: »

threetrees wrote: »

Students get bussed to Confey from Lucan because they fall outside the catchment area for the already oversubscribed Lucan schools. It is nothing to do with reputation.

If anything , kids were bussed from Leixlip to Lucan .

Not anymore. Confey doesn't have a huge teenage population anymore but it has a big school, Lucan schools are all full so a huge number of them go to confey college. It's irrelevant to this though where anyone is from.

Beechwoodspark

Reporter on pat Kenny just now said the guards have identified a suspect and arrest will follow possibly by the wkend.

Hector Savage

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I hear ya. And I agree with 98% of what you wrote. At times like this, any person who feels empathy towards the range of victims in these 2 awful attacks and killings will suffer. And it can get you down.

All this can add to the other non-stop pressure and noise of just getting on with life while we're being assaulted by external crap from the news, mortgages, Trump, Korea, 8th Amendment vitriol, and a thousand other things. But you know what? Sometimes we simply care and give too much, more than we are capable of giving. Yes, we absolutely should all be "f@&king nicer to each other". But first, we should be "f@&king nicer to" ourselves! And what I mean by that is to pull our own horns in...

Stop receiving... Don't watch the news for a month.. Go out for a walk instead.. Log out from the bad, pressure inducing social media... Put down the phone... Turn on message minder and switch the phone on twice a day for a hour each time to return calls... Read a book...Most important, buy 2 Board Games and set aside one night every week where ye all play the board game for a couple of hours and have a bit of fun together..

If we all did more of that we would all be better able to deal with the stuff.

And then we might be better able to try to be "f@&king nicer to each other"!

Christ, you managed to get Trump moaning in there.

ThinkProgress

If that is actually true, then this thing just got even more cruel...

How does her family wrap their heads around such an ending for their child? I'm sure they won't only need justice, but also some kind of explanation and answer for why this happened...

iamwhoiam

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Kindness isn't disappearing. Women living in Ireland are no less safe today than they were two weeks ago. Nice people who do nice, selfless things for people are all around us.
Real men, real men are great. I've said this so much over the last few months between the Belfast trial and and now these two murders.
We have so many more real men around us than we do misogynistic, entitled assholes. We have more men around us that would jump to protect us from scum like Hennessy and like whoever it was that murder Ana. Women too, who would have jumped in and helped either of them had they had the chance.

Real kindness is all around us, we just don't see it or notice it as much because it's such a normal part of everyday life.

Kindness is the person who is pulling of their parking spot as you pull in and hands you their parking ticket.
Kindness is all the volunteers who help out for charities.
Kindness is the colleague who shouts you your morning/afternoon coffee.
Kindness is the colleague who randomly brings a few cakes back for your team from the shop.
Kindness is the many, many people who cook up food, collect clothing and stand in the cold for hours during winter nights to help feed, clothe and give comfort to the homeless.
Kindness is the people who runs to help pick you up when you trip over the footpath, take a spill on your bike etc
Kindness is the friend who opts for meeting up at a time that doesn't suit at all but they know it suits you in your hectic life
Kindness is all the people offering help on #hometovote on twitter (on both sides) read that hashtag and see if you can avoid welling up.
Could go on...

There are so, so many random acts of kindness going on every second of every day. So much more than than sh*t like this. We don't see it and don't appreciate it because we expect people to be nice.

I wanted to quote this in full as it needs to be seen . I fully agree with you and we forget at times like this that the vast majority pf people are kind .On a daily bases this is my experience

Kindness is the staff of hospitals and care homes that slept on the floor during the snow in February
Kindness is the people who hand you their Dunnes €10 off because they wont need it
Kindness is the man who walks over to your car when he sees you struggle with a big bag of moss peat and lifts it in with a smile .
Kindness is in every day and kindness is in most people .

Senature

tayto lover wrote: »

Electric Sheep wrote: »

It may be one boy charged with the actual murder, but I would not be at all surprised if the attack was instigated by girls. They/she might not have been present for the act itself, but stirred the pot and set the boys up to do it.

That's my belief too.

What? How exactly can people who weren't present be responsible for this horror? Other kids may have been involved in bullying her or lying about who she might be meeting in the park. That is nasty and they are responsible for their own nasty words and actions. Anyone who engaged in sexual assault, violence and murder knew at the very least they were badly harming and hurting someone to put it mildly. How could they have been "set up" to engage in such violence? Serious mental gymnastics there.

Ush1

ThinkProgress wrote: »

If that is actually true, then this thing just got even more cruel...

How does her family wrap their heads around such an ending for their child? I'm sure they won't only need justice, but also some kind of explanation and answer for why this happened...

I think some peoples rage, which is understandable, is making them overlook the age aspect of this.

Young teens can be very cruel, many children of that age do not have empathy with a person they may be causing distress to.

Obviously this case is extreme, but I can remember in school large groups of kids bullying certain kids to the point where looking back it's amazing some of them didn't take their own life. Especially if a group is involved in the bullying and their is an element of social hierarchy.

Rechuchote

Senature wrote: »

What? How exactly can people who weren't present be responsible for this horror? Other kids may have been involved in bullying her or lying about who she might be meeting in the park. That is nasty and they are responsible for their own nasty words and actions. Anyone who engaged in sexual assault, violence and murder knew at the very least they were badly harming and hurting someone to put it mildly. How could they have been "set up" to engage in such violence? Serious mental gymnastics there.

The post replied to above is just part of the Irish attitude to women that we will hopefully start to purge with tomorrow's vote.

King of Kings

Rechuchote wrote: »

The post replied to above is just part of the Irish attitude to women that we will hopefully start to purge with tomorrow's vote.

thats some leap and stretching there, boss

tupenny

tayto lover wrote: »

That's my belief too.

Both of you are wrong. No girls involved in any way.

Senature

King of Kings wrote: »

Rechuchote wrote: »

The post replied to above is just part of the Irish attitude to women that we will hopefully start to purge with tomorrow's vote.

thats some leap and stretching there, boss

Unfortunately it's not a big leap. Inherent ingrained misogyny that shocks me in Irish society all the time. In this case so far as we think we know, a young teenage girl was sexually assaulted, battered with pieces of wood etc and murdered by one or more males. But according to some it was really the girls who weren't even there that are actually responsible for them doing that....

homerjay2005

sbsquarepants wrote: »

People tend to forget the fact that some kids are just cúnts.

this. too many excuses being made for some kids these days.

Deep_learning

Electric Sheep wrote: »

It may be one boy charged with the actual murder, but I would not be at all surprised if the attack was instigated by girls. They/she might not have been present for the act itself, but stirred the pot and set the boys up to do it.

A teenage boy sexually assaults and brutally murders a teenage girl.

Yet, you seem to have an inherent need to blame girls.

bessboroughboy

I've often heard it said that young teenage girls are more socially adept than boys of the same age. But just because such girls might be clever enough to manipulate such boys doesn't mean it actually happened in this case.


Two things lead me to think that more than one perpetrator was involved:

1. The fact that it seems to have been an orchestrated situation.

2. Two types of weapon were referenced.


Perhaps a larger group conspired to lure Ana and keep her at the scene until she was at the mercy of the local dead-eyed, sparkless, knuckle-dragging no-hoper and his zombie, throw & fetch sidekick.

King of Kings

Senature wrote: »

Unfortunately it's not a big leap. Inherent ingrained misogyny that shocks me in Irish society all the time. In this case so far as we think we know, a young teenage girl was sexually assaulted, battered with pieces of wood etc and murdered by one or more males. But according to some it was really the girls who weren't even there that are actually responsible for them doing that....

I dont see what is unreasonable about that opinion . There is a concept in law of joint venture...it is possible that others beyond the actual killers were involved.

thats up to the DPP not us on boards .If others (male or female) were involved they should face consequences.

BUT I also must point out we dont know anything yet as to who was or was not involved.

One thing we do know from this case and the terrible murder of Jastine Valdez is that the papers are full of crap and the waffle on boards makes as much sense.

so yeah its some leap to make.

strandroad

bessboroughboy wrote: »

I've often heard it said that young teenage girls are more socially adept than boys of the same age. But just because such girls might be clever enough to manipulate such boys doesn't mean it actually happened in this case.

Yes how do you even manipulate a person to rape and murder? How would they not stop at the victim's first scream?
In the absence of any such evidence it's quite a telling leap to assume that the simplest explanation (they are a rapist and a murderer) is wrong and they were in fact put up to it by some evil girls, who were never reported to be around at all.

bessboroughboy

strandroad wrote: »

Yes how do you even manipulate a person to rape and murder? How would they not stop at the victim's first scream?
In the absence of any such evidence it's quite a telling leap to assume that the simplest explanation (they are a rapist and a murderer) is wrong and they were in fact put up to it by some evil girls, who were never reported to be around at all.

Sorry, didn't see your very first word!

I now realise you were agreeing with me so I've edited accordingly.

Heres Johnny

Haven't heard a whisper about any girls and I've heard a lot. Of course it's possible but anything is possible.
I've heard 3 names, all male, all under house arrest as we speak.

King of Kings

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Haven't heard a whisper about any girls and I've heard a lot. Of course it's possible but anything is possible.
I've heard 3 names, all male, all under house arrest as we speak.

what is house arrest ?? There is no concept I've heard of in ireland of this...
Can you please elaborate?

strandroad

bessboroughboy wrote: »

I only said "manipulate", I meant in a general context, that's why I only said "manipulate".

I did not say manipulate to do anything specific.

In any case, if manipulation were involved in this case, the situation must surely have escalated way beyond a set-up prank.

Furthermore, my point was that no manipulation was necessarily involved.

Sorry I was actually agreeing with you mostly. I find the way of thinking of these posters above quite astounding.
Reports: a group of lads was involved in a rape and murder of a girl.
Posters: oh the (absent) girls put them up to it.
What the hell...

mcgovern

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Haven't heard a whisper about any girls and I've heard a lot. Of course it's possible but anything is possible.
I've heard 3 names, all male, all under house arrest as we speak.

One of the original two rumoured teens is no longer a suspect, I think it is just one teen (male) now under suspicion?

bessboroughboy

strandroad wrote: »

Sorry I was actually agreeing with you mostly. I find the way of thinking of these posters above quite astounding.
Reports: a group of lads was involved in a rape and murder of a girl.
Posters: oh the (absent) girls put them up to it.
What the hell...

Completely my fault, not yours at all.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Heres Johnny

King of Kings wrote: »

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Haven't heard a whisper about any girls and I've heard a lot. Of course it's possible but anything is possible.
I've heard 3 names, all male, all under house arrest as we speak.

what is house arrest ?? There is no concept I've heard of in ireland of this...
Can you please elaborate?

Not in official custody but being monitored. These lads aren't being given free reign to go about their business.

Wombatman

Maybe there is some truth that two unknown men were involved. I hope AGS weren't so focused on the teen suspects that they neglected this line of enquiry.

Heres Johnny

mcgovern wrote: »

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Haven't heard a whisper about any girls and I've heard a lot. Of course it's possible but anything is possible.
I've heard 3 names, all male, all under house arrest as we speak.

One of the original two rumoured teens is no longer a suspect, I think it is just one teen (male) now under suspicion?

Not sure, just heard about 3 separate boys. I've passed names on to nobody because of this very reason, they could all be not guilty in the end.

Heres Johnny

Wombatman wrote: »

Maybe there is some truth that two unknown men were involved. I hope AGS weren't so focused on the teen suspects that they neglected this line of enquiry.

Very unlikely. The story about the men only came out when Ana was found and suspects questioned. On Thursday or Friday. 3 or 4 days after the boys claimed they were assaulted by 2 unknown men on the Monday. Didnt think to mention it before then.