The horrific death of Ana Kriegel

degsie

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Not in official custody but being monitored. These lads aren't being given free reign to go about their business.

Are they allowed to attend school?

Textronic

degsie wrote: »

Are they allowed to attend school?

They wouldn't be attending anyhow with all the goings on atm

Heres Johnny

degsie wrote: »

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Not in official custody but being monitored. These lads aren't being given free reign to go about their business.

Are they allowed to attend school?

Wouldn't say so. Very unlikely.

Easygame1

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Wouldn't say so. Very unlikely.

They are not in school.

King of Kings

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Not in official custody but being monitored. These lads aren't being given free reign to go about their business.

this is nonsense.

the police cant hold a person without arrest.
Unless under arrest or having bail conditions imposed by a judge they can go where they want.
even on holidays.

Heres Johnny

King of Kings wrote: »

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Not in official custody but being monitored. These lads aren't being given free reign to go about their business.

this is nonsense.

the police cant hold a person without arrest.
Unless under arrest or having bail conditions imposed by a judge they can go where they want.
even on holidays.

Fair enough! Maybe they have conditions imposed.

CeilingFly

King of Kings wrote: »

this is nonsense.

the police cant hold a person without arrest.
Unless under arrest or having bail conditions imposed by a judge they can go where they want.
even on holidays.

yes, of course they can go wherever they want, but make any attempt at it and they would be arrested immediately and in full public glare. You can be sure that they and their family are very aware of this.

Neyite

King of Kings wrote: »

this is nonsense.

the police cant hold a person without arrest.
Unless under arrest or having bail conditions imposed by a judge they can go where they want.
even on holidays.

Probably any 'house arrest' is imposed by the parents. I'd imagine that parents have consulted with a specialised lawyer the moment it became clear their child had knowledge of the murder or events leading up to it. Any lawyer (and I'm not even one!) would probably recommend keeping any suspect off school, away from friends and with no access to phone or internet to prevent any further self-incrimination or collusion with others during an ongoing Garda investigation.

Siblings would probably have to be kept off school too for the same reason.

As sickened as any parent might be to realise that your son could have participated in such a heinious act, they are still a minor and you are still going to have to make decisions with the defence lawyers on behalf of your child.

KathleenGrant

homerjay2005 wrote: »

this. too many excuses being made for some kids these days.

Agree. Yes there was bullying in my school, physical and verbal but nobody raped and tortured anyone. This is depraved, evil.

I just read a few posts from the last few pages and cannot believe some post which show a margin of sympathy for the killer/killers.

Put your child in her place, now this is all alleged ok.

Viscously bullied
tricked into meeting boys
Laughed at and jeered once she arrives.
Whatever happened then, the fact is a young child
died in the most horrendous way imaginable. You would hope it
was more than one or two people only because there was more than
two items with blood on them, meaning two guys looked for more weapons!!
without being too graphic, let that sink in.

What's worse, these lads slept!! for 3 nights apparently!!
that takes it to a different level ok sick!! from what I've heard they're goosed
but whatever the delay is, I cannot understand myself.

OwlsZat

Anyone else a bit worried its taking so long to make any arrests. The only reason I can see is that they haven't sufficient evidence?

decky1

sorry don't know all the details but i heard it may be kids her own age that are guilty, hope it's not another Jamie Bolger case where their let off with a slap on the wrists and new life elsewhere [see what happened there] may seem a bit extreme but if my son or daughter were involved in a crime like this i think i would want them locked up , it may save another life.

knucklehead6

OwlsZat wrote: »

Anyone else a bit worried its taking so long to make any arrests. The only reason I can see is that they haven't sufficient evidence?

there are kids involved, the gardai are being thorough and cautious. Which is the only way to approach this case

EarlSlick

OwlsZat wrote: »

Anyone else a bit worried its taking so long to make any arrests. The only reason I can see is that they haven't sufficient evidence?

• DNA has to be analysed.
• There is more than one suspect.
• The suspects are all minors.

These are the three reasons why the Gardai have to take extreme care with this case.

Would u rather a quick arrest based on evidence which doesn't stack up or a lengthy investigation resulting in the perpetrators being rightly convicted?

Textronic

Presumably they'll get it right

It's hard not to remember cases like sophie du plantier where they didn't

Ashbourne hoop

shamrock55 wrote: »

The next referendum I want is to bring back the death penalty

It's thankfully never going to happen. There's no political or general public will for it and it's against EU law.

Sunflower 27

EarlSlick wrote: »

• DNA has to be analysed.
• There is more than one suspect.
• The suspects are all minors.

These are the three reasons why the Gardai have to take extreme care with this case.

Would u rather a quick arrest based on evidence which doesn't stack up or a lengthy investigation resulting in the perpetrators being rightly convicted?

I think we all want the latter, but the fact they are still out is unnerving don't you think? Especially when people have posted that locals know who they are . How Iong does it take to test DNA, does anyone know.? I'd of thought it would be quicker than this.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Rechuchote wrote: »

The post replied to above is just part of the Irish attitude to women that we will hopefully start to purge with tomorrow's vote.

Mod note: Any discussion of the 8th goes into the 8th thread. It's the only thread for that debate. We're not going to allow every thread be taken over by yes/no posts and debates.


Take it to the 8th thread!


Buford T. Justice

Electric Sheep

Deep_learning wrote: »

A teenage boy sexually assaults and brutally murders a teenage girl.

Yet, you seem to have an inherent need to blame girls.

I don't think that girls are responsible for the rape and murder. I do suspect that girls were involved in the plot to lure her to the park to be humiliated.

Heres Johnny

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Deep_learning wrote: »

A teenage boy sexually assaults and brutally murders a teenage girl.

Yet, you seem to have an inherent need to blame girls.

I don't think that girls are responsible for the rape and murder. I do suspect that girls were involved in the plot to lure her to the park to be humiliated.

Why may I ask You?

Electric Sheep

KathleenGrant wrote: »

Agree. Yes there was bullying in my school, physical and verbal but nobody raped and tortured anyone. This is depraved, evil.

You don't know that nobody was raped, though. Most rapes are not reported.

bessboroughboy

Bear in mind that this case will be overseen by detectives, inspectors, superintendents and probably higher.

The investigation will have to be seen as thorough even if that means investigating the alleged 2 men who may be fictitious.

The guards will be dotting the i's and crossing the t's so that if the trial collapses for any reason, it won't be their fault.

I don't think anyone underestimates the significance of this atrocity and subsequent response.

I regard any attempt at "understanding" the actions of the perpetrators as an insult to Ana and her family (maybe I'm wrong).

degsie

Electric Sheep wrote: »

I don't think that girls are responsible for the rape and murder. I do suspect that girls were involved in the plot to lure her to the park to be humiliated.

Unless you are intimately involved with the whole situation, you should stop posting this nonsense.

Electric Sheep

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Why may I ask You?

The setup of going to the park to meet a boy she liked makes me think of girls who are jealous of another girl who is attractive and a desire to humiliate her in front of boys to make themselves feel more powerful.

bessboroughboy

degsie wrote: »

Unless you are intimately involved with the whole situation, you should stop posting this nonsense.

Reference was made to Ana's poise and striking appearance so perhaps an element of jealously fostered a desire to humiliate her in some way???

granturismo

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Fair enough! Maybe they have conditions imposed.

How can anyone have 'conditions imposed' when they havent been arrested and brought before a judge. They may be under surveillance.

Tekano tim

Senature wrote: »

Unfortunately it's not a big leap. Inherent ingrained misogyny that shocks me in Irish society all the time. In this case so far as we think we know, a young teenage girl was sexually assaulted, battered with pieces of wood etc and murdered by one or more males. But according to some it was really the girls who weren't even there that are actually responsible for them doing that....

I don't often post on boards but I thought it might be worth mentioning a little tact, as we all know must stuff posted on line stays on line, this might be worth considering when discussing the feelings of the family, the community and this poor girls legacy, just a thought.

Electric Sheep

bessboroughboy wrote: »

Reference was made to Ana's poise and striking appearance so perhaps an element of jealously fostered a desire to humiliate her in some way???

Yes. Some teenage girls can be like that. I used to be a teenage girl, and I remember well how much of the bullying is caused by jealousy among teenage girts.

Rechuchote

Oh, for goodness sake stoppit. It might as well have been Martians or robots. This is pure speculation, and it's unpleasant.

As Tekano Tim has pointed out, Ana Kriegel's many friends and her bereaved parents could well be reading this. Please stop the lubricious theorising.

emo72

Such a lovely girl. Heartbreaking to think how she died. What is wrong with kids that they can go to these depths?

Rechuchote

Rechuchote wrote: »

Oh, for goodness sake stoppit. It might as well have been Martians or robots. This is pure speculation, and it's unpleasant.

As Tekano Tim has pointed out, Ana Kriegel's many friends and her bereaved parents could well be reading this. Please stop the lubricious theorising.

I very much doubt her parents are consulting the speculative pages of this thread as a means to stay informed !! are you saying it might as well be martians or robots over the two 14 yr olds with blood stains on their clothing? who claim to have left Ana in good spirits??? the same two which were reported in todays indo as being suspects with highly inconsistent stories about ready to be arrested?? pending DNA on that same blood??


and your bet is on little green men? well to walk away from a scene in that manner, one would have to be indeed a robot, devoid of all humanity, so maybe you're inadvertently onto something.

mcgovern

rusty cole wrote: »

I very much doubt her parents are consulting the speculative pages of this thread as a means to stay informed !! are you saying it might as well be martians or robots over the two 14 yr olds with blood stains on their clothing? who claim to have left Ana in good spirits??? the same two which were reported in todays indo as being suspects with highly inconsistent stories about ready to be arrested?? pending DNA on that same blood??


and your bet is on little green men? well to walk away from a scene in that manner, one would have to be indeed a robot, devoid of all humanity, so maybe you're inadvertently onto something.

I hope they are consulting the Indo either as that information is not correct.

hatrickpatrick

rusty cole wrote: »

I very much doubt her parents are consulting the speculative pages of this thread as a means to stay informed !! are you saying it might as well be martians or robots over the two 14 yr olds with blood stains on their clothing? who claim to have left Ana in good spirits??? the same two which were reported in todays indo as being suspects with highly inconsistent stories about ready to be arrested?? pending DNA on that same blood??


and your bet is on little green men? well to walk away from a scene in that manner, one would have to be indeed a robot, devoid of all humanity, so maybe you're inadvertently onto something.

To be fair, the Indo isn't exactly Pulitzer Prize winning journalism on your average story, so as far as I'm concerned until arrests are made we basically know nothing - except that whoever did it is a depraved and dangerous scumbag.

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

To be fair, the Indo isn't exactly Pulitzer Prize winning journalism on your average story, so as far as I'm concerned until arrests are made we basically know nothing - except that whoever did it is a depraved and dangerous scumbag.

I agree with you, I just used the indo to illustrate media's willingness to report this as close to being wrapped up, without fear of libel.

they guards know "who" and it's not a matter of "IF" it's a matter of "WHEN". ergo, when the DNA "confirms" most of the Gardaí trail of events.

iamwhoiam

I passed the farm today and cried at the awful sense of sadness there . RIP Ana .

OwlsZat

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I passed the farm today and cried at the awful sense of sadness there . RIP Ana .

DNA testing I had thought was fairly quick turnaround... You are quite correct they will have to knock the place as soon as this is over.

My mother died tragically and the thing that got me is how the last moments of her life must have been so scary and out character for her. Same applies here and it makes the whole thing almost unforgivable for me. RIP Ana.

Odhinn

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

To be fair, the Indo isn't exactly Pulitzer Prize winning journalism on your average story, so as far as I'm concerned until arrests are made we basically know nothing - except that whoever did it is a depraved and dangerous scumbag.

Yep. It's been wrong on details on other cases, so until theres charges made, we know nothing for sure.

Heres Johnny

Ana's funeral has taken place in a very quiet, private ceremony for those closest to her.
Glad it worked out as the family wanted.
Now I just hope justice is served for her and her family.

iamwhoiam

Personally I think that should be private information and not for an open public forum .

The Talking Bread

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Personally I think that should be private information and not for an open public forum .

Seriously? That is the post you choose to criticise??!

iamwhoiam

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Seriously? That is the post you choose to criticise??!

Yes . I think at least somethings should be private for a family whos lives have been torn asunder . They didn't make it known or public so I would respect that. Its the parents decision when to make that known . Its my opinion .

Heres Johnny

It's over. I knew it was on and I didn't post beforehand. Now it's over and can't be attended by people that the family didn't want there it can't be any harm. Long time for the poor family waiting and I'm sure a lifetime of grieving too.
God help them.

spurious

OwlsZat wrote: »

Anyone else a bit worried its taking so long to make any arrests. The only reason I can see is that they haven't sufficient evidence?

I'd say the guards know what they are at with the delay. They must have the DNA at this stage. If there are a number of lads involved, I would say they need one or more of them to give up who struck the first/final/significant blow. The longer the delay, the more pressure, the more likely this is to happen. Otherwise I think the whole case could be a he said/he said situation and it will be hard to sort out.

Textronic

Heres Johnny wrote: »

It's over. I knew it was on and I didn't post beforehand. Now it's over and can't be attended by people that the family didn't want there it can't be any harm. Long time for the poor family waiting and I'm sure a lifetime of grieving too.
God help them.

What gives you the right to decide..

Assetbacked

The rules around detaining children are so strict that, should child suspects be arrested, they would have to be released until the trial except in extraordinary circumstances.

Think about it; if child suspects for this horrific murder were arrested, they would then be released pending trial. If this happened, there would be a risk of them getting attacked and also identified and lambasted potentially putting a fair trial at risk (and therefore a conviction).

Therefore, the Gardai need to be practically 100% clear that the suspects are the actual perpetrators as they will need to demonstrate upon arresting them that they should be detained until their trial.

Esel

Textronic wrote: »

What gives you the right to decide..

Seriously?

The funeral has taken place. I'm sure that fact will be reported by newspapers etc. Can't see any issue here, tbh.

mirrorwall14

Honestly this is one of the only things about the case that hasn't broken to the media in advance or while in progress. It might have been nice for the family to wake up tomorrow and not see a headline that "a private service has taken place". I don't see why it needed to be posted yet

ETA: I'd have zero issue discussing it or posting it if it was in the media already. But if the media didn't have it, which it appears they didn't-they will now

Franz Von Peppercorn

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Honestly this is one of the only things about the case that hasn't broken to the media in advance or while in progress. It might have been nice for the family to wake up tomorrow and not see a headline that "a private service has taken place". I don't see why it needed to be posted yet

ETA: I'd have zero issue discussing it or posting it if it was in the media already. But if the media didn't have it, which it appears they didn't-they will now

Of course they knew but were not invited or were asked to not report before the event.

The things people get worked up about.

iamwhoiam

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Of course they knew and were not invited.

The things people get worked up about.

I don't see any one worked up . We simply have an opinion and voiced it . I made a point and I think its as valid as others ? Its just how I feel about it

TomOnBoard

Assetbacked wrote: »

The rules around detaining children are so strict that, should child suspects be arrested, they would have to be released until the trial except in extraordinary circumstances.

Think about it; if child suspects for this horrific murder were arrested, they would then be released pending trial. If this happened, there would be a risk of them getting attacked and also identified and lambasted potentially putting a fair trial at risk (and therefore a conviction).

Therefore, the Gardai need to be practically 100% clear that the suspects are the actual perpetrators as they will need to demonstrate upon arresting them that they should be detained until their trial.

You're dead right! I honestly don't know why ppl appear to be so concerned that no arrests have yet been made. It will happen when it happens.

Unless anyone believes that the investigation is in some way not being properly handled, let the authorities follow due process.. Waaay better to be right than quick IMHO.