The horrific death of Ana Kriegel

Heres Johnny

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

it certainly is a tricky one from a rehabilitation point of view. Will a teenager be a better person if he's punished as severely as he deserves to be? No he won't. in fact he'll come out the other end far worse more than likely. What's the priority rehab or punishment?

Wasnt' one of the James bulger killers an evil sociopath who did his time and now walks among us anonymously?
and the other the hapless tag along kid that cracked up over what they did and prision life and ended up a messed up jailbird?

Robert Thompson has led quite a normal life since I believe and is in a homosexual relationship. Partner knows his true identity.
Jon venables was caught with child porn and sent back to jail. Bizzarely he is engaged to be married when he gets out, some penpal crazy woman that knows who is he is and what he did.

wakka12

I dont think somebody who rapes and beats another child to death and leaves them naked in a barn can ever be rehabilitated tbh no matter what age they are

Sleeper12

SEPT 23 1989 wrote:

I think if we all just thanked the first post with no speculation just to keep the thread open to show our solidarity with the family at this terrible time

Great idea. Unfortunately most didn't think so

Ragnar Lothbrok

An awful, savage and heartbreaking story. For a child's life to end this way is unbearably sad.

However, once again we have a story of terrible cruelty, and many of the posters here and elsewhere seem to get some sort of gratification in calling for equally barbaric treatment for the perpetrators.

Some of the comments I read make me feel a little uneasy - if a person suggests an equally barbaric form of punishment for an offender (regardless of how sickening the crime) then I would have to question the mind of the person who suggests such punishment.

I totally understand that tempers run high at such news - but wouldn't giving vile punishment to offenders make us as bad as them?

Ash.J.Williams

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Robert Thompson has led quite a normal life since I believe and is in a homosexual relationship. Partner knows his true identity.
Jon venables was caught with child porn and sent back to jail. Bizzarely he is engaged to be married when he gets out, some penpal crazy woman that knows who is he is and what he did.

exactly ...wasn't Thompson the ring leader? his conscience is clean as he is a sociopath, whilst tag along venebles has lost the plot entirely.

Heres Johnny

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

An awful, savage and heartbreaking story. For a child's life to end this way is unbearably sad.

However, once again we have a story of terrible cruelty, and many of the posters here and elsewhere seem to get some sort of gratification in calling for equally barbaric treatment for the perpetrators.

Some of the comments I read make me feel a little uneasy - if a person suggests an equally barbaric form of punishment for an offender (regardless of how sickening the crime) then I would have to question the mind of the person who suggests such punishment.

I totally understand that tempers run high at such news - but wouldn't giving vile punishment to offenders make us as bad as them?

It's only posters on an internet forum. Put them in a room with a rapist/murderer etc and most of them would do nothing, unless maybe a loved one was involved.
Putting someone in prison and never letting them out is a worse punishment than a hiding anyway, but I think the frustration stems from the fact there are very few true life sentences handed out, hence the fantasies of violence and cruel and unusual punishment to quote the americans.

Greyfox

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

However, once again we have a story of terrible cruelty, and many of the posters here and elsewhere seem to get some sort of gratification in calling for equally barbaric treatment for the perpetrators.

Some of the comments I read make me feel a little uneasy - if a person suggests an equally barbaric form of punishment for an offender (regardless of how sickening the crime) then I would have to question the mind of the person who suggests such punishment.

I totally understand that tempers run high at such news - but wouldn't giving vile punishment to offenders make us as bad as them?

No it doesn't, I'm a perfectly sane nice person but the person who did this is a scummy piece of sh** who deserves a more severe punishment than what our weak forgiving justice system gives.. I'm all for more barbaric punishment as I care more about victims than I do about scum, if we didn't have a weak justice system I might be more rational

bigpink

Why isnt this murder in the media more?Seems people aren’t shocked by it

Seth Brundle

bigpink wrote: »

Why isnt this murder in the media more?Seems people aren’t shocked by it

People were shocked by it but there hasn't been anything significant to report over the last day or so, so it moves down the news feed.
Doesn't mean that it's not on people's minds

Heres Johnny

It's in the media plenty.
The detectives are doing their jobs. When there's something to report, it will be up in 5 seconds. Don't want a speculative frenzy.
Locally it's hugely on people's minds and their conversations. Hundreds of us go to that park on a daily basis. Can't not think of it.

wakka12

bigpink wrote: »

Why isnt this murder in the media more?Seems people aren’t shocked by it

It is not as big as Jastines story as the suspects are underage so the media cant post personal details about them, and important DNA results arent back yet I believe

cagefactor

If the person's responsible are 13-14 what is the law like ? Are they trialed as adults ? Do they get an easy pass in some juvenile detention center for a couple of years? released in a few years with new identities ?

Squatter

cagefactor wrote: »

If the person's responsible are 13-14 what is the law like ? Are they trialed as adults ? Do they get an easy pass in some juvenile detention center for a couple of years? released in a few years with new identities ?

See post #146.

Ragnar Lothbrok

Greyfox wrote: »

No it doesn't, I'm a perfectly sane nice person but the person who did this is a scummy piece of sh** who deserves a more severe punishment than what our weak forgiving justice system gives.. I'm all for more barbaric punishment as I care more about victims than I do about scum, if we didn't have a weak justice system I might be more rational

You say you care about the victim, but how would a cruel and inhuman punishment help the victim?

I certainly care more about the victims of crime than those who perpetrate crime, but I don't understand how dragging us down to the torture of criminals will ever help a victim.

kingofclay

bigpink wrote: »

Why isnt this murder in the media more?Seems people aren’t shocked by it

That's what I thought. I remember watching the Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman case unfold as a kid and the outpouring of grief when they were found. However, we are a bit more measured here whereas in the UK the public were watching the case unfold on Sky News for 2 weeks.

kingofclay

kingofclay wrote: »

That's what I thought. I remember watching the Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman case unfold as a kid and the outpouring of grief when they were found. However, we are a bit more measured here whereas in the UK the public were watching the case unfold on Sky News for 2 weeks.

There’s no comparison to the Holly and Jessica case. They were missing for weeks, which is why it was in the media so much.

This unfortunate girls remains have been found and the Gardai are working flat out to try and solve the case. There are updates and requests for information every day.

screamer

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Greyfox wrote: »

No it doesn't, I'm a perfectly sane nice person but the person who did this is a scummy piece of sh** who deserves a more severe punishment than what our weak forgiving justice system gives.. I'm all for more barbaric punishment as I care more about victims than I do about scum, if we didn't have a weak justice system I might be more rational

You say you care about the victim, but how would a cruel and inhuman punishment help the victim?

I certainly care more about the victims of crime than those who perpetrate crime, but I don't understand how dragging us down to the torture of criminals will ever help a victim.

Torture them? Too soft. Lethal injection would be adequate for them after savagely killing a child in this way.
Our society would be far better off to be rid of murderous scumbags than giving them Xboxes in prison both financially and actually.
Oh just for ****s and giggles...what does keeping them alive in prison actually contribute to our society outside of some limp wristed justice?

Electric Sheep

screamer wrote: »

Torture them? Too soft. Lethal injection would be adequate for them after savagely killing a child in this way.
Our society would be far better off to be rid of murderous scumbags than giving them Xboxes in prison both financially and actually.
Oh just for ****s and giggles...what does keeping them alive in prison actually contribute to our society outside of some limp wristed justice?

If the rumour that the perpetrators are 13 is true, then they are also children, and in fact a year younger than the victim. So lethal injection would also be killing a child.

Also, I think the fact that the victim was actually a peer rather than a younger child complicates the issue.

Greyfox

Electric Sheep wrote: »

If the rumour that the perpetrators are 13 is true, then they are also children, and in fact a year younger than the victim. So lethal injection would also be killing a child.

If found guilty there a murderer and thankfully as per post 146 they would be trailed as an adult.. thank god.

Ragnar Lothbrok

screamer wrote: »

Torture them? Too soft. Lethal injection would be adequate for them after savagely killing a child in this way.
Our society would be far better off to be rid of murderous scumbags than giving them Xboxes in prison both financially and actually.
Oh just for ****s and giggles...what does keeping them alive in prison actually contribute to our society outside of some limp wristed justice?

If, as seems highly possible, the killer/s are children themselves, do you seriously think that torture is too soft for them? Is that not savage too?

Locking someone up for the rest of their life is not an "easy" option. I'd imagine that life in prison is incredibly horrible, despite the opinion of many that it is some sort of holiday camp.

Greyfox

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

You say you care about the victim, but how would a cruel and inhuman punishment help the victim?

At least the family will know they got justice and it may work as a deterrent to some potential murderers. It's better to do this rather that disrespect the victim by letting the murderer out of prison one day

Ragnar Lothbrok

Greyfox wrote: »

At least the family will know they got justice and it may work as a deterrent to some potential murderers. It's better to do this rather that disrespect the victim by letting the murderer out of prison one day

If deterrents worked, no one would ever commit horrible, violent crimes. Just look at the US, where they have the death penalty in many states, along with a crazily high murder rate.

And I'm not sure I agree with letting certain murderers out of prison either. Some crimes are so awful that life in prison is the only answer.

it's gas that tons were derailing the thread based on the perpetrator being of foreign origin!! turns out both women killed this week will have been murdered by our own home grown dirt!! and yet they are of foreign descent!!

oh the irony!

reminds me of that poor swiss girl in galway , murdered by a pig!

Seth Brundle

rusty cole wrote: »

it's gas that tons were derailing the thread based on the perpetrator being of foreign origin!! turns out both women killed this week will have been murdered by our own home grown dirt!!

I hadn't realised that there were any arrests never mind a trial

Sundew

rusty cole wrote: »

reminds me of that poor swiss girl in galway , murdered by a pig!

And she wasn’t his first killing! He killed a young man from Tipp on a stag night in Galway. Was in the city the same weekend. He was released after serving his holiday, and then killed that lovely young girl. One dangerous individual who deserves a bullet in the head. Wont be long before he is back out, as he has served half his scentence already! At least Mark Hennessy will not get the opportunity to kill twice!

wakka12

Sundew wrote: »

And she wasn’t his first killing! He killed a young man from Tipp on a stag night in Galway. Was in the city the same weekend. He was released after serving his holiday, and then killed that lovely young girl. One dangerous individual who deserves a bullet in the head. Wont be long before he is back out, as he has served half his scentence already! At least Mark Hennessy will not get the opportunity to kill twice!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/manuela-killer-had-raped-student-just-weeks-before-26539702.html
He was also prime suspect in a rape case of a french woman just months before he killed the swiss girl.

Sundew

wakka12 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/manuela-killer-had-raped-student-just-weeks-before-26539702.html
He was also prime suspect in a rape case of a french woman just months before he killed the swiss girl.

Recall that incident. Headlines fade and people quickly forget :-(

J Mysterio

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

If deterrents worked, no one would ever commit horrible, violent crimes. Just look at the US, where they have the death penalty in many states, along with a crazily high murder rate.

And I'm not sure I agree with letting certain murderers out of prison either. Some crimes are so awful that life in prison is the only answer.

Was just reading about Bernadette McNeilly earlier. She committed a shocking crime in '92, walking the streets now. Life should mean life.

Suckit

rusty cole wrote: »

it's gas that tons were derailing the thread based on the perpetrator being of foreign origin!! turns out both women killed this week will have been murdered by our own home grown dirt!! and yet they are of foreign descent!!

oh the irony!

reminds me of that poor swiss girl in galway , murdered by a pig!

Gas?

Raging_Ninja

Suckit wrote: »

Gas?

Slang for funny. Used to only ever hear my parents say it, but it's back in vogue anongst the younger crowd these days.

Suckit

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Slang for funny. Used to only ever hear my parents say it, but it's back in vogue anongst the younger crowd these days.

Really funny..

Suckit

Suckit wrote: »

Really funny..

OP said thread being derailed by people saying killer must have been foreign was gas . OP did NOT say the killings or the circumstances of the killings were gas . I think you know this .

Snake Plisken

A harsh sentence needs to be handed out to the scum that did this and anyone who was there last Monday, from what my daughter has heard theses two were constantly bullying Ana in school so I couldn’t see her going to a remote location voluntarily with these murderers, maybe there were others who tricked her to go there with the mirderers waiting for her. Make an example of this sub-human scum and make it so that any other lunatic will double think about murdering a child. If they get a light sentence then it sends the wrong message.

Btw beside the two victims this week remember last Summer the poor Spanish girl who was kidnapped and the raped multiple times in a tent before escaping what happened to that Irish scumbag I don’t recall anything about him being charged and sentenced.

pjohnson

The anonymity of them is a disgrace. This wasn't an accident. They knew what they were doing. They should be named and photo published.

tupenny

Will be difficult for them to stay anon. Everyone locally knows who's involved.
Just a matter of time now til its confirmed.

Suckit

Deleted User wrote: »

OP said thread being derailed by people saying killer must have been foreign was gas . OP did NOT say the killings or the circumstances of the killings were gas . I think you know this .

I do know this. I still do not think any of it is funny.

Some people who shouldn't have been spouting rubbish, were allegedly wrong. The phrasing of gratification some people got from that could be left aside too.


Edited.

It is actually twitter that is annoying me. How people can read and write that bile without wanting to start smashing their computer/phone/tablet to pieces is beyond me.
It seems to be an army of idiots winding each other up.

Franz Von Peppercorn

rusty cole wrote: »

it's gas that tons were derailing the thread based on the perpetrator being of foreign origin!! turns out both women killed this week will have been murdered by our own home grown dirt!! and yet they are of foreign descent!!

oh the irony!

reminds me of that poor swiss girl in galway , murdered by a pig!

Is it generally well known who the perpetrators are? I know it’s not officially known.

pjohnson

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Is it generally well known who the perpetrators are? I know it’s not officially known.

Locally yeah. Just move county and they can continue happily.

Chuck_Norris

Snake Plisken wrote: »

A harsh sentence needs to be handed out to the scum that did this and anyone who was there last Monday, from what my daughter has heard theses two were constantly bullying Ana in school so I couldn’t see her going to a remote location voluntarily with these murderers, maybe there were others who tricked her to go there with the mirderers waiting for her. Make an example of this sub-human scum and make it so that any other lunatic will double think about murdering a child. If they get a light sentence then it sends the wrong message.

Btw beside the two victims this week remember last Summer the poor Spanish girl who was kidnapped and the raped multiple times in a tent before escaping what happened to that Irish scumbag I don’t recall anything about him being charged and sentenced.

There are a massive number of rumours doing the rounds in the school, and they're managing to do a great job of containing them. Speculation helps no body in this situation, and I'm not trying to be a back seat mod in saying that.

OwlsZat

Snake Plisken wrote: »

theses two were constantly bullying Ana in school so I couldn’t see her going to a remote location voluntarily with these murderers

It was common back in the day for my group of friends to intervene with bullies. Give them back a little of their own on behalf of those that felt they couldn't. Do people not stick up for others, or confront bullies anymore? 
Unless the school and the families all knew it was talking place?

Heres Johnny

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

rusty cole wrote: »

it's gas that tons were derailing the thread based on the perpetrator being of foreign origin!! turns out both women killed this week will have been murdered by our own home grown dirt!! and yet they are of foreign descent!!

oh the irony!

reminds me of that poor swiss girl in galway , murdered by a pig!

Is it generally well known who the perpetrators are? I know it’s not officially known.

Some names knocking around the community alright but I'm not sure how reliable. I'm not passing on names, I've got a good few PMs asking me but I don't know how reliable the info is. No way, it's too serious a situation for me to write any names. Can't have an innocent lad be tarred with this, the police will do their jobs

J Mysterio

OwlsZat wrote: »

It was common back in the day for my group of friends to intervene with bullies. Give them back a little of their own on behalf of those that felt they couldn't. Do people not stick up for others, or confront bullies anymore? 
Unless the school and the families all knew it was talking place?

I always thought Ireland was good insofar as we didn't really tolerate that culture of bullying here. It was an American thing. Someone would generally intervene and say 'cop on' or 'ah heor leavah ouh'.

I guess maybe thats changing a bit with social media and the globalised world.

Chuck_Norris

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Some names knocking around the community alright but I'm not sure how reliable. I'm not passing on names, I've got a good few PMs asking me but I don't know how reliable the info is. No way, it's too serious a situation for me to write any names. Can't have an innocent lad be tarred with this, the police will do their jobs

Best attitude to take alright. Like yourself, I'm a local and here's an awful lot I've heard from various different places. My auld lad is a local as well, but a Far Ender, and he's heard all manner of stuff as well.

This is going to be a long and traumatic trial, for Ana's family, for the school and for the community.

TomOnBoard

J Mysterio wrote: »

I always thought Ireland was good insofar as we didn't really tolerate that culture of bullying here. It was an American thing. Someone would generally intervene and say 'cop on' or 'ah heor leavah ouh'.

I guess maybe thats changing a bit with social media and the globalised world.

We didn't tolerate that culture of bullying???

We bloody institutionalised it!!

I clearly remember my school days of 50 years ago!!

Sunflower 27

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

What's the priority rehab or punishment?

Punishment. The victim has not got a second chance so why should the perpetrator/s?

OwlsZat

TomOnBoard wrote: »

J Mysterio wrote: »

I always thought Ireland was good insofar as we didn't really tolerate that culture of bullying here. It was an American thing. Someone would generally intervene and say 'cop on' or 'ah heor leavah ouh'.

I guess maybe thats changing a bit with social media and the globalised world.

We didn't tolerate that culture of bullying???

We bloody institutionalised it!!

I clearly remember my school days of 50 years ago!!

An obvious generational thing. Yes institutional bullying at a time was widespread. Students allowing other students to bully their peers maybe not so much.

Heres Johnny

Chuck_Norris wrote: »

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Some names knocking around the community alright but I'm not sure how reliable. I'm not passing on names, I've got a good few PMs asking me but I don't know how reliable the info is. No way, it's too serious a situation for me to write any names. Can't have an innocent lad be tarred with this, the police will do their jobs

Best attitude to take alright. Like yourself, I'm a local and here's an awful lot I've heard from various different places. My auld lad is a local as well, but a Far Ender, and he's heard all manner of stuff as well.

This is going to be a long and traumatic trial, for Ana's family, for the school and for the community.

Yeah it's going to be known for sure by the end of the week I would imagine.
I got 2 surnames and 1 first name so it's sketchy at the moment. I don't think I know anybody related to them anyway so to me it's just names.

pjohnson

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Some names knocking around the community alright but I'm not sure how reliable. I'm not passing on names, I've got a good few PMs asking me but I don't know how reliable the info is. No way, it's too serious a situation for me to write any names. Can't have an innocent lad be tarred with this, the police will do their jobs

And the police will make sure the guilty are not tarred either.

ThinkProgress

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Punishment. The victim has not got a second chance so why should the perpetrator/s?

Normally, I would completely agree...

However, considering how young they are, it is an absolute certainty that they will be walking the streets again at some point in their life. And probably still young enough to be a danger to the public!

I don't see any judge in this country locking them up for the rest of their life. So perhaps, with that in mind, some rehabilitation efforts might not be the worst idea!?

It's a horrible reality of the soft-touch liberal country we have built...

iebamm2580

Have to admit i was ignorant and immediately thought non-irish, seems not to be the case.