Question from a non motorbike rider

John_Rambo

I stumbled across an interesting comment on another forum about a motorcyclist being beeped at for filtering/overtaking by frustrated car drivers.

I'm in Dublin myself and as a driver I'd always give way, or at least give room and space to overtaking bikers. By this I mean slowing down or stopping early to let the filtering biker merge in front of me, or, if possible veering left (safely) to enable a handy overtake. I see other drivers doing this and if they don't it's usually because of a lack of mirror use and basic ignorance of what's going on on the road. Not malice.

Personally, I do this for a few reasons;

1 - A motorbike is one less car on the road.
2 - Bikers (in my opinion) tend to be better drivers than car drivers. Often enthusiasts that are very aware of what's going on, so the slightest move to the left or deceleration is immediately recognised by bikers and acted upon swiftly and without any danger to anyone. (usually followed by a helmet nod or a gloved/boot wave)
3 - They'll never hold you up due to modern bikes having exceptional acceleration from stop, even small engined ones (seemingly to me anyway).

I've only seen genuine malice once in my life driving all around the country, it was driving from Sligo to Dublin on an N road when a VW passat purposefully pulled out and accelerated over the dashed line in front of two bikers trying to legally overtake. I stayed well back and it went on for a while. I'm guessing the VW drivers were simply scumbags and nothing more.

As a kid, I remember my dad always giving way to faster bikes and letting bikes in in front, or facilitating overtakes. I just followed suit, I always thought it was the done thing.

Is this a thing now? Are some car drivers acting truculent and blocking motorbikes filtering and overtaking?

I'm just interested in the flow of traffic and the culture of letting buses, motorbikes, cyclists, trams & other space saving road users merge and use the road.

Del2005

Yes there are some ignorant car drivers just like there are some ignorant bikers, cyclists, pedestrians, HGV and bus drivers.

arybvtcw0eolkf

John_Rambo wrote: »

Is this a thing now? Are some car drivers acting truculent and blocking motorbikes filtering and overtaking?

It happens, but its rare in my experience. Although some bikers will tell you it happens to them every day and that they've a collection of car mirrors which they punched/kicked off ~ they're bullsh*t artists.

My biggest concern with car drivers are mobile phone users, imo they're scumbags and as dangerous to themselves (and I don't care for their safety if they don't) and everyone else as drunk drivers are.

I cycle and use my motorbike probably close to 50/50.

As a cyclist I'm objectified and shown little or no regard to my safety, compared to when I'm on my motorbike where a lot (I won't say most) car drivers are aware of me and give me way (if they're not busy on facebook or whatsapp).

My motorbike is fairly big (BMW R1200GS) so I appreciate when a driver moves aside a little for me.

My bicycle isn't so big, but as a father trying to get to work or home (or train) safely I also show the same appreciation to drivers who show regard for my safety.

Lumen

I find it disconcerting when cars move out of the way when I'm filtering. It's really not necessary. Just drive in the middle of the lane and use MSM like you're supposed to anyway.

Max Headroom

Lumen wrote: »

I find it disconcerting when cars move out of the way when I'm filtering. It's really not necessary. Just drive in the middle of the lane and use MSM like you're supposed to anyway.

For me its shows that they are bike aware, which is a good thing...i always wave to these people..this way they'll remember the good feeling they get for doing something thoughtful....also when i see a car about to pull out but dont when they see you, a little wave goes a long way...;)

Sonics2k

In my own experience drivers in Cork seem to be far more considerate when it comes to bikes and filtering. I suppose there's not so many of us that people call us a pest.

One annoying trait I have found is that quite often when moving to the front of the queue, another bike won't go in front of the car meaning I'm sitting there squashed between two cars hoping to get ahead.

John_Rambo wrote: »

2 - Bikers (in my opinion) tend to be better drivers than car drivers. Often enthusiasts that are very aware of what's going on, so the slightest move to the left or deceleration is immediately recognised by bikers and acted upon swiftly and without any danger to anyone. (usually followed by a helmet nod or a gloved/boot wave)

I'm possibly going to get some **** for this, but I can't really agree with this. You can certainly say that many people on a certain kind of bike are better drivers, or are at least more aware of other road users.

You do, sadly, get boy racer types who much like car drivers will ride a certain kind of bike, and often very dangerously. Just yesterday afternoon I saw a lad go past me wearing just a helmet, jeans and t-shirt. At a guess I'd say he was easily pushing 150kmh as I was doing a steady 120.

zubair

There's definitely more considerate drivers than @ssholes, I can't count the number of people that pull over and make room etc. on my commute. Occasionally i have had drivers block me, beep at me etc. But its hard to be bothered when you're going to be a mile down the road in the next minute. I actually prefer cars to just stay where they are in the road as I'll just find my own way past but it does let you know they are alert and aware of your presence.

I will add the one thing that grinds my gears is lane 3 hogs who won't budge, they know you're there, there's a headlight in their eyeline and hi viz to beat the band. There's a lot of these on the road but again there's more who will let you by.

Max Headroom

Then theres the "panicker".(generally older drivers) .ya know the one that sees you and looses all sense of road craft...they'll drive into a ditch rather than have you in their mirror....:)

Blondie919

Here in Galway I find the vast majority of drivers are considerate towards bikers. Same as zubair says I can't keep count of them on any particular commute. And if I ever hear the very odd beep of frustration I just smile and carry on my merry way. All those who make way for me get a wave.

Emmersonn

Most drivers are considerate towards bikers if they actually see them. The problem is as has been said numerous time is that there are too many distractions while driving a car. Keeping up with social media being the most common. Most of my leisure driving is done on secondary roads and the biggest gripe I have is the driver who literally expects the motorcyclist to pass him simply because he has dropped his speed to 50km p h and pulls well into the side even though there is a continuous white line and a number of blind corners. Then when you refuse to risk the overtake he proceeds to drive over the white line, increases his speed to 60km and even when it becomes safe to pass he still will not give you an inch or should that be 2.54cms.

John_Rambo

Del2005 wrote: »

Yes there are some ignorant car drivers just like there are some ignorant bikers, cyclists, pedestrians, HGV and bus drivers.

And indeed internet users.

Thanks for the answers. Seems more positive reactions from motorists than negative. It's good to see respect and graciousness on the roads.

Kawalski

The vast majority of road users are courteous with a few exceptions as already mentioned. However, because of a motorbikes ability to accelerate combined with the number of distractions available to drivers, I try to think of myself as invisible (even with lights on & florescent top) and that anyone who can see me wants to kill me....it's called self-preservation 😉.
Oh, and thanks for moving over but if it's in moving traffic there's really no need ðŸ˜

John_Rambo

Kawalski wrote: »

The vast majority of road users are courteous with a few exceptions as already mentioned. However, because of a motorbikes ability to accelerate combined with the number of distractions available to drivers, I try to think of myself as invisible (even with lights on & florescent top) and that anyone who can see me wants to kill me....it's called self-preservation ��.
Oh, and thanks for moving over but if it's in moving traffic there's really no need ðŸ˜

Noted. Everyday's a school day. Thanks.

twowheelsonly

Sonics2k wrote: »

One annoying trait I have found is that quite often when moving to the front of the queue, another bike won't go in front of the car meaning I'm sitting there squashed between two cars hoping to get ahead.

.

That may possibly be because you were never supposed to go past the front car in stopped traffic.. (Technically , if you did it meant that you were gone over the stop line yourself) Most junctions now have a box for bikes so it should be legal but they're not always there and many times there's motorists plonked in them !!

Kawalski wrote: »

The vast majority of road users are courteous with a few exceptions as already mentioned. However, because of a motorbikes ability to accelerate combined with the number of distractions available to drivers, I try to think of myself as invisible (even with lights on & florescent top) and that anyone who can see me wants to kill me....it's called self-preservation ��.
Oh, and thanks for moving over but if it's in moving traffic there's really no need ðŸ˜

I'd be the same... pretend I'm invisible and always expect the unexpected !!

I do always appreciate people moving over as well, whether the traffic is stopped or moving. It may not always be necessary but the extra bit of space is always very welcome as is the knowledge that the driver is aware of your presence and not likely to drift or swerve out in front of you.

John_Rambo

twowheelsonly wrote: »

That may possibly be because you were never supposed to go past the front car in stopped traffic.. (Technically , if you did it meant that you were gone over the stop line yourself) Most junctions now have a box for bikes so it should be legal but they're not always there and many times there's motorists plonked in them !!



I'd be the same... pretend I'm invisible and always expect the unexpected !!

I do always appreciate people moving over as well, whether the traffic is stopped or moving. It may not always be necessary but the extra bit of space is always very welcome as is the knowledge that the driver is aware of your presence and not likely to drift or swerve out in front of you.

Yeah. Well worded, it's more of a acknowledgment that the motorist is aware of you and is expecting an overtake than actually "making room" for the biker.

Lumen

John_Rambo wrote: »

Yeah. Well worded, it's more of a acknowledgment that the motorist is aware of you and is expecting an overtake than actually "making room" for the biker.

The problem with this idea is that it may be a dangerous false assumption to think that a driver who has changed road position is acknowledging your presence and letting you past.

The best thing my driving instructor taught me (a long time ago) is "don't make ambiguous signals, and don't assume you know what they mean when other road users make them".

The driver could be changing road position for all sorts of reasons. Sure, in 99.99% of cases it's because they're being observant and courteous, it's the other 0.01% that will kill you.

So I'm of the "pretend you're invisible" school.

Del2005

twowheelsonly wrote: »

That may possibly be because you were never supposed to go past the front car in stopped traffic.. (Technically , if you did it meant that you were gone over the stop line yourself) Most junctions now have a box for bikes so it should be legal but they're not always there and many times there's motorists plonked in them !!

The box isn't for our bikes though, but like bus lanes the Gardai are using common sense when we use them.

stewygriffin

I find car drivers in the UK much more tollerent of bikers than car drivers here.

It was like the parting of the seas when I was on the M25 on the S1000rr.

Yet here on the M50 in rush hour traffic jam from Finglas to Liffey Valley 3 ignorant and stupid cnuts pulled in on me and squeezed me in so i couldnt filter.

A tap on the passenger window and some words sorted it out though.
1 driver called me a typical dangerous biker who had no respect for anyone else.

I said that maybe next time he should purposely squeeze in a traffic Corp biker and say the same thing.

Then he would see who was actually the dangerous 1.

Del2005

stewygriffin wrote: »

I find car drivers in the UK much more tollerent of bikers than car drivers here.

It was like the parting of the seas when I was on the M25 on the S1000rr.

Yet here on the M50 in rush hour traffic jam from Finglas to Liffey Valley 3 ignorant and stupid cnuts pulled in on me and squeezed me in so i couldnt filter.

A tap on the passenger window and some words sorted it out though.
1 driver called me a typical dangerous biker who had no respect for anyone else.

I said that maybe next time he should purposely squeeze in a traffic Corp biker and say the same thing.

Then he would see who was actually the dangerous 1.

The French are the best I've seen. Got stuck in LeMans in 40C afternoon. Made a move to filter and it was like a cop car had turned on its lights, cars on both sides parted to make a simple filter. Even on motorways and flowing roads they are aware of bikes, and cars, and use their indicators keep you informed.

D3V!L

Del2005 wrote: »

The French are the best I've seen. Got stuck in LeMans in 40C afternoon. Made a move to filter and it was like a cop car had turned on its lights, cars on both sides parted to make a simple filter. Even on motorways and flowing roads they are aware of bikes, and cars, and use their indicators keep you informed.

I had the same in the UK , Germany and France. In the summer being stuck on a bike in traffic isn't nice. Motorists there recognize this. Here they'll begrudge you.

D3V!L

Niko Abundant Windsurfing wrote: »

It happens, but its rare in my experience. Although some bikers will tell you it happens to them every day and that they've a collection of car mirrors which they punched/kicked off ~ they're bullsh*t artists.

The Gardai gave me a lovely little certification the last time I did that. I have it proudly framed in my house.

I usually leave them on the road rather than take them with me though.

Max Headroom

D3V!L wrote: »

Niko Abundant Windsurfing wrote: »

It happens, but its rare in my experience. Although some bikers will tell you it happens to them every day and that they've a collection of car mirrors which they punched/kicked off ~ they're bullsh*t artists.

The Gardai gave me a lovely little certification the last time I did that. I have it proudly framed in my house.

I usually leave them on the road rather than take them with me though.

You should mount them and stick them on the wall...:)

D3V!L

Max Headroom wrote: »

You should mount them and stick them on the wall...:)

As proof ?? I'd rather not incriminate myself