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Do i qualify for relief if i rent out garden chalet in backgarden airbnb

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  • 20-05-2018 12:49pm
    #1
    thebourke
    Registered Users Posts: 1,317 ✭✭✭


    Hi,
    I live in dublin 12 and have space in the backgarden to build a self contained flat like one of these (6metres x 4 metres)
    https://www.steeltechsheds.ie/products/


    Question:would i qualify for relief for 14,000euro a year as i am the home owner?
    I am paye employee.


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    #2
    Oops69
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Oops69


    hopefully not but i wouldn't be surprised .


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    #3
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Airbnb doesn't qualify only longer term lets.

    Self contained units don't qualify they have to be attached.

    That's not a chalet it's a glorified shed.


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    #4
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Rent a shed relief


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    #5
    Daxve
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭Daxve


    Tax Manual 04-01-20 states

    “rent-a-room-relief is not available in respect of a room or rooms used to provide short-term guest accommodation.”

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-04/04-01-20.pdf


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    #6
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    thebourke wrote:
    Question:would i qualify for relief for 14,000euro a year as i am the home owner? I am paye employee.


    Definitely not for Air B&B. They also tell revenue how much they pay you so there is no escaping tax with them.

    You most likely won't get planning permission for a separate dwelling /granny flat.

    A separate dwelling / granny flat doesn't fall under the rent a room scheme. The room you are renting must be in the dwelling that you live in. If it was attached to the house with a door leading from one to the other it qualifies


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    #7
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,357 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Build something decent with a link to dwelling and rent it long term and avail of the relief in a legit manner.

    Anything else won't qualify.


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    #8
    testicles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭testicles


    This post has been deleted.


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    #9
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    testicles wrote:
    This post has been deleted.


    They won't get planning permission for a dwelling imo.


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    #10
    thebourke
    Registered Users Posts: 1,317 ✭✭✭thebourke


    roughly how much tax would i be paying ?


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    #11
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    thebourke wrote:
    roughly how much tax would i be paying ?


    It depends on how much rent you receive in the year, what you salary in work is etc

    You could be looking at about half of the rent in tax


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    #12
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Op, last week there was a discussion about Airbnb on Matt Coopers Last Word on Today FM. There has not been one case brought against an Airbnb host in Ireland regarding planning, crack on with your plan, at worst you might have to cancel bookings if a case is ever brought. On the Airbnb site you can print off a spread sheet of all monies paid, just submit it at the end of your tax year.

    There is no tax relief, but you will make a bundle in Dublin.


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    #13
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,751 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    testicles wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Yep, notoriously difficult to gain permission for use of any garden building as a "dwelling".
    Then there are the planning conditions applicable to even exempted sheds, with regard to garden area remaining and location and heights.
    I have a lovely garden Room/Mancave based off a steeltech shed, but there's not a hope in hell my council would sign off on it as "habitable"


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    #14
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    davo10 wrote:
    Op, last week there was a discussion about Airbnb on Matt Coopers Last Word on Today FM. There has not been one case brought against an Airbnb host in Ireland regarding planning, crack on with your plan, at worst you might have to cancel bookings if a case is ever brought. On the Airbnb site you can print off a spread sheet of all monies paid, just submit it at the end of your tax year.


    You missed the point. On matt Cooper they were talking about dwellings, housed and apartments that had planning permission to be dwellings. Where they talked about no case brought against someone renting out an apartment for air B&B (yet) these buildings have full planning permission as dwelling.

    There's a big difference between renting out an apartment with full planning permission meeting fire regulations etc & a shed in the garden. Op will need full planning permission for the structure itself and it must meet building regulations to get planning as a dwelling.


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    #15
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,347 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    thebourke wrote: »
    Hi,
    I live in dublin 12 and have space in the backgarden to build a self contained flat like one of these (6metres x 4 metres)
    https://www.steeltechsheds.ie/products/


    Question:would i qualify for relief for 14,000euro a year as i am the home owner?
    I am paye employee.

    No because what you want to do is a garden shed. It’s illegal to rent out a garden shed.


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    #16
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    kceire wrote:
    No because what you want to do is a garden shed. It’s illegal to rent out a garden shed.


    Also I couldn't imagine air B&B listing a garden shed on their site. With my luck someone will prove me wrong with a link. :(


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    #17
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,357 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    To be fair some of the home office units advertised by steel tech seem reasonable and with the right fit out would seem reasonable for overnight stay.
    Are people responding here just looking at the first garden shed in the link?


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    #18
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    mickdw wrote:
    To be fair some of the home office units advertised by steel tech seem reasonable and with the right fit out would seem reasonable for overnight stay. Are people responding here just looking at the first garden shed in the link?


    You won't get planning permission for a dwelling in one though. They won't meet buildings regulations or fire regulations for a dwelling


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    #19
    mad m
    Registered Users Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭mad m


    I've a laneway out back, neighbour opposite sold land at end of garden to some fella. He built 2 story structure, it was fairly big I have to say. A few of the neighbour's got onto planning and he had to put in for retention. It wasn't objected but conditions are not to be a dwelling for habitable use/animals etc...

    I was surprised that planning didn't tell him to take it down and to keep it in line with other structures in area as its a good bit higher than most...


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    #20
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    mad m wrote:
    I was surprised that planning didn't tell him to take it down and to keep it in line with other structures in area as its a good bit higher than most...

    There 5 story apartments going in the garden behind my two storey house. They don't seem to care anymore how it looks unfortunately


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    #21
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,347 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    mickdw wrote: »
    To be fair some of the home office units advertised by steel tech seem reasonable and with the right fit out would seem reasonable for overnight stay.
    Are people responding here just looking at the first garden shed in the link?

    No, basically the exemptions been quoted here are for garden sheds. Garden sheds are legally not allowed to be habitable.
    mad m wrote: »
    I've a laneway out back, neighbour opposite sold land at end of garden to some fella. He built 2 story structure, it was fairly big I have to say. A few of the neighbour's got onto planning and he had to put in for retention. It wasn't objected but conditions are not to be a dwelling for habitable use/animals etc...

    I was surprised that planning didn't tell him to take it down and to keep it in line with other structures in area as its a good bit higher than most...

    If no neighbour objects or lodges an observation then the planner assumes all immediate neighbors are aware of the proposed works and are relatively satisfied for it to go ahead.


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    #22
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,357 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    kceire wrote: »
    No, basically the exemptions been quoted here are for garden sheds. Garden sheds are legally not allowed to be habitable.

    My point is that the office type units they offer look far superior to a shed and while I don't know what the structure of them is, should one be installed, brought to a proper habitable standard meeting building regs and linked to dwelling and satisfying all requirements of planning exemptions for domestic extensions, they would appear quite adequate for short stay single occupancy.
    I'm mostly replying to comments where people said airbnb wouldn't even list an ad for such a structure.


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    #23
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,347 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    mickdw wrote: »
    My point is that the office type units they offer look far superior to a shed and while I don't know what the structure of them is, should one be installed, brought to a proper habitable standard meeting building regs and linked to dwelling and satisfying all requirements of planning exemptions for domestic extensions, they would appear quite adequate for short stay single occupancy.
    I'm mostly replying to comments where people said airbnb wouldn't even list an ad for such a structure.

    That would be the biggest problem, connecting this pre fabricated sheds to the main dwelling while complying with our Building Regulations.

    I know I wouldn't sign off on it personally. Also, you cannot meet the Regulations without ripping the shed apart so cost wise, you'd be better building a proper shed from the start.


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    #24
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,074 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Realistically, nobody is going to build a proper extension compliant with planning and building regulations and then rent it out on AirBnb.

    It would cost at least 50k, there will be no kitchen or separate entrance, so you're going to spend 10 years sharing your house with randomers in order to break even on the project after taxes and expenses. What's the point?

    These ideas exist in the sweet spot between ignorance, greed and "ah sure, it'll be grand" disregard of the law.

    If Ireland had any effective consumer protection it would ban advertising of sheds without a clear statement that they must not be used for human habitation, then at least the ignorance defence would be punctured.


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    #25
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    Lumen wrote: »
    Realistically, nobody is going to build a proper extension compliant with planning and building regulations and then rent it out on AirBnb.

    It would cost at least 50k, there will be no kitchen or separate entrance, so you're going to spend 10 years sharing your house with randomers in order to break even on the project after taxes and expenses. What's the point?

    These ideas exist in the sweet spot between ignorance, greed and "ah sure, it'll be grand" disregard of the law.

    If Ireland had any effective consumer protection it would ban advertising of sheds without a clear statement that they must not be used for human habitation, then at least the ignorance defence would be punctured.

    A granny flat however???????


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    #26
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,347 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Askthe EA wrote: »
    A granny flat however???????

    Has to be connected to the main dwelling with a permanently accessible link door between the granny flat and the main dwelling.

    *But I see where your going with this :)


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    #27
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    kceire wrote: »
    Has to be connected to the main dwelling with a permanently accessible link door between the granny flat and the main dwelling.

    *But I see where your going with this :)

    It does, unless it cant be for whatever reason, the door can be locked all the time...


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    #28
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,347 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Askthe EA wrote: »
    It does, unless it cant be for whatever reason, the door can be locked all the time...

    Then it wont get Planning Permission.
    Askthe EA wrote: »
    the door can be locked all the time...

    This is what happens in real life alright.


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    #29
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    kceire wrote: »
    Then it wont get Planning Permission.

    Having gone through this when (successfully) trying to buy my home, it can do where there is no physical way to join them (say a difference in levels etc) but yes, in the main you are right.


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    #30
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,347 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Askthe EA wrote: »
    Having gone through this when (successfully) trying to buy my home, it can do where there is no physical way to join them (say a difference in levels etc) but yes, in the main you are right.

    I've been involved in countless of them, and I haven't got permission for one yet that is not joined.

    Could you link us to the Public Planning Reference Number for comparison?
    It will be available on the Councils website.

    You'll have to forgive my reluctance to agree/believe you as you are not the first to post the above, yet no other poster that posted it has proved it by way of showing the wording of the planning.


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    #31
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    kceire wrote: »
    I've been involved in countless of them, and I haven't got permission for one yet that is not joined.

    Could you link us to the Public Planning Reference Number for comparison?
    It will be available on the Councils website.

    You'll have to forgive my reluctance to agree/believe you as you are not the first to post the above, yet no other poster that posted it has proved it by way of showing the wording of the planning.

    I cant give you the planners report (as it will identify my home, I'm sure you'll understand) but I've copied the wording for you below from the senior planner verbatim.

    "Section 16.74 also states that the unit shall comprise a physical extension of the main house with direct access to the main dwelling and further states that: the entrance to the family flat shall be via the main dwelling. No direct access is provided to the main dwelling. While an access to the rear may be acceptable in cases where this is unavoidable.

    Now, this was a retention issue (It was refused btw) which may have a bearing on what you ask???


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