Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

DrumSteve

You lads are gas on here...

If someone has a knife and he's coming at you, he's going to get shot.

Fair play to the garda too.

The Bishop Basher

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Oh for Gods sake its totally possible there were people there .

I work there. the place is deserted.

I don't even let my daughters get off the Luas there because it's so deserted.

I pick them up in Sandyford instead.

Do you even know the area ?

It's mostly wasteground.

pjohnson

Swanner wrote: »

Whatever mistakes were made by AGS, we'll never get hear about them anyway.

There will be a massive cover up operation underway as we speak..

It's one thing our force is extremely well versed at..

You should be listening to your teacher.

Green Peter

kippy wrote:

The attitude shown towards members of AGS on here is disgraceful. People have a huge axe to grind and have very little appreciation for the daily dangers and issues members of the force have to deal with sometimes literally making split second life or death decisions.

I guess it's their way of putting the boot in to AGS after getting that speeding ticket 5 years ago or being arrested for being a dick at 4am drunk on the street.

Baraics Pollox

All these experts on here saying the Gardaí were in the wrong to shoot him. You don't know the circumstances.

What's done is done now and no amount of "should haves" will change that.

Put the shoe on the other foot, if a member of the gardai happened to be stabbed to death in the apprehension of this scumbag you could be sure as shíte that the same "armchair experts" would be saying "sure aren't some member of AGS carrying guns? Why didn't they shoot him? We need to arm all our gardai with guns in future...blah blah blah"

kippy

Swanner wrote: »

Well I base futire predictions on past events and I can only go on the endless number of scandals and cover ups we've watched unfold over the last 30 years or so but sure maybe you are correct and this time it will be different from all the other times.

We'll see.

You do realise the 'all the other times' are a very small percentage of incidents that AGS have dealt with over the years?
Why jump to so many conclusions on this incident with absolutely no access to the facts or situational details?
How about you back the group of people that are literally putting their lives on the line on a daily basis to protect the rest of us in our bubbles of idealistic thinking?

ConnyMcDavid

https://twitter.com/Muinchille/status/998475957093765121?s=19

pjohnson

kippy wrote: »

You do realise the 'all the other times' are a very small percentage of incidents that AGS have dealt with over the years?
Why jump to so many conclusions on this incident with absolutely no access to the facts or situational details?
How about you back the group of people that are literally putting their lives on the line on a daily basis to protect the rest of us in our bubbles of idealistic thinking?

Because hes made his mind up that any facts will be part of a cover up so facts or no facts he can keep claiming the AGS are hopeless.

I can guarantee you that if he was killing a school full of children the same people would be on here saying the same about Gardai.

The Bishop Basher

pjohnson wrote: »

Because hes made his mind up that any facts will be part of a cover up so facts or no facts he can keep claiming the AGS are hopeless.

Agreed I have. I don't trust AGS.

They have shown themselves to be utterly untrustworthy over and over and over again. How many more scandals and cover ups do we need to have before people start to doubt their honesty ?

pjohnson wrote: »

You should be listening to your teacher.

Incredibly witty. Well done. Go you..

Green Peter wrote: »

I guess it's their way of putting the boot in to AGS after getting that speeding ticket 5 years ago or being arrested for being a dick at 4am drunk on the street.

No just sick of endless cover ups, lies, scandals and countless innocent victims as direct result of their garda incompetence and corruption.

Trust and respect are earned. AGS have earned neither.

iamwhoiam

Amalgam wrote: »

No it's not. /s

https://www.thesun.ie/news/2601213/dad-of-two-builder-40-shot-dead-during-garda-search-for-missing-jastine-valdez-was-blasted-in-head-after-he-pulled-a-knife/

Take a look at the photos .It is entirely possible .Its not the moon its Cherrywood business park .

El Horseboxo

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

All of it suggests a panic reaction.

You dont keep shooting until the threat is nutralised.

You also have to account for every single shot you fire and in an investigation, you will be scrutinised and will have to justify every single shot you fire. If your last shot was unneccessery and it caused the fatal blow whereas the assailant would have otherwise surrvived, you could be up **** creek.

Where did you get your weapons training?

I've no idea about Ireland. But as a law enforcement officer in the US. You absolutely do shoot to neutralize. We are trained to aim for center mass and shoot until target is down. This is why you often see claims of overkill in the media during officer involved shootings. You can have a number of officers all with weapons trained on target. If threat is imminent target is engaged until they are down. Each officer doesn't have time to synchronize shots and each one is independent. And if you have ever been involved in such an incident. You would know it is not like the movies where people instantly fall. Adrenaline can allow someone to take 6 shots to the chest before they may be incapacitated.

After the fact you account for the shots. What you have signed out vs what you sign back in. You are not trained to account for bullets before the fact. Again, no idea about Ireland but from liaising with other countries over the years. I don't know what police force operates that way.

I also don't know how you can definitively claim panic shot. You don't know the details. Nor do I. Have you ever been lunged at with a knife? Have you ever been in a situation with weapon trained on suspect and a lunge with a knife is made towards another officer or member of general public? Do you know how quick this happens? As an armed officer you should be trained to react to threats. And threats can happen very quickly and in a variety of ways. The head would never be something I'd instinctively target as it's not what I'm trained for. That could suggest center mass was obstructed. From what I've read. None of the details are available. So don't know how someone can categorically state something about it.

The Bishop Basher

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Take a look at the photos .It is entirely possible .Its not the moon its Cherrywood business park .

You obviously don't know the area. If you did you wouldn't keep arguing that's it''s busy and referring to google maps to back up your point.

I know the place well. It's absolutely deserted most of the time.

You're talking nonsense.

homerjay2005

ebbsy wrote: »

Well I wouldn't have killed him. Cos that would have been stupid.

well if you were the person in that suituation then, wed probably be dealing with at least one fatality of an innocent, unarmed traffic cop this morning.

thankfully you were not and that cop is alive and was able to go home to his family last night.

Swanner

Swanner wrote: »

Agreed I have. I don't trust AGS.

They have shown themselves to be utterly untrustworthy over and over and over again. How many more scandals and cover ups do we need to have before people start to doubt their honesty ?



Incredibly witty. Well done. Go you..



No just sick of endless cover ups, lies, scandals and countless innocent victims as direct result of their garda incompetence and corruption.

Trust and respect are earned. AGS have earned neither.

You are clearly only here to hammer the guards with accusations and nonsense speculation.
This thread is about the poor girl who has gone missing. And as per the reports the shooting of a dangerous suspect who was armed with a knife and threatened the guards as the vehicle was approached.

Trigger

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.thesun.ie/news/2601213/dad-of-two-builder-40-shot-dead-during-garda-search-for-missing-jastine-valdez-was-blasted-in-head-after-he-pulled-a-knife/

Take a look at the photos .It is entirely possible .Its not the moon its Cherrywood business park .

The /s implies the sarcasm in his/her post, looking at those pictures of where the forensic preservation tent is set up it’s away from the car which is in view so You could possibly take from that, that the shooting occurred outside of the car.

DellyBelly

I wonder could this guy who was shot been involved in the cases of the missing women in Ireland like to Jo dollard etc...it's quite plausible.

eigrod

DellyBelly wrote: »

I wonder could this guy who was shot been involved in the cases of the missing women in Ireland like to Jo dollard etc...it's quite plausible.

Extremely extremely unlikely. Paul Reynolds said last night this man had never come to the attention of the Gardaí before and he would've been about 17 when Jo Jo Dullard went missing.

The Bishop Basher

M!Ck^ wrote: »

You are clearly only here to hammer the guards with accusations and nonsense speculation.

I'm here to take part in a discussion and share opinions. It is, after all, a discussion board.

M!Ck^ wrote: »

This thread is about the poor girl who has gone missing. And as per the reports the shooting of a dangerous suspect who was armed with a knife and threatened the guards as the vehicle was approached.

Which is what we're discussing. What's your point ?

average_runner

DellyBelly wrote: »

I wonder could this guy who was shot been involved in the cases of the missing women in Ireland like to Jo dollard etc...it's quite plausible.

Highly unlikely.

I actually praise the Gardai here, someone pulls a knife on them, all bets are off.
The sooner we have less people like this in the world the better.

Amalgam

Swanner wrote: »

What's your point ?

That you have an axe to grind.. regarding the AGS, regardless of this event.

eigrod

El Horseboxo wrote: »

I also don't know how you can definitively claim panic shot. You don't know the details. Nor do I. Have you ever been lunged at with a knife? Have you ever been in a situation with weapon trained on suspect and a lunge with a knife is made towards another officer or member of general public? Do you know how quick this happens? As an armed officer you should be trained to react to threats. And threats can happen very quickly and in a variety of ways. The head would never be something I'd instinctively target as it's not what I'm trained for. That could suggest center mass was obstructed. From what I've read. None of the details are available. So don't know how someone can categorically state something about it.

If I were an armed police officer and a shiny object is pointed at me from any distance, I know how I'd respond. I'm not taking the time to figure is it a knife or a firearm.

Malayalam

DellyBelly wrote: »

I wonder could this guy who was shot been involved in the cases of the missing women in Ireland like to Jo dollard etc...it's quite plausible.

As far as I can make out, Jo Jo is missing 22 years, Annie McCarrick since 1993 (25 years), and Deirdre Jacob about 19 years. This suspect is 40 - perhaps too young at the time of those disappearances to be a suspect.

kingofclay

Cherrywood is not deserted. Brides Glen is a busy enough Luas Stop. There's also apartments near by and a Spar(which may be closed late on a Sunday) and a park right in front where he was parked up. The evening wasn't great so it probably was quiet

Captain Obvious

Swanner wrote: »

Whatever mistakes were made by AGS, we'll never get hear about them anyway.

There will be a massive cover up operation underway as we speak..

It's one thing our force is extremely well versed at..

Was there a shooting covered up before?

DrumSteve wrote: »

You lads are gas on here...

If someone has a knife and he's coming at you, he's going to get shot.

Fair play to the garda too.

It's fairly easy for them to test their theories. Get a mate to stand 20 feet away from you with a stick and tell him to sprint towards you without notice. They can then test their ideas for putting away a gun and subduing him or for aiming at his hands.

Beechwoodspark

One thing that strikes me is how spur of the moment this seems to be. He told his wife he was off away for the evening.

Then he abducts the victim from side of the road. If it was totally random and he had no prior connection to her it truly is a strange case.

iamwhoiam

astradave wrote: »

The /s implies the sarcasm in his/her post, looking at those pictures of where the forensic preservation tent is set up it’s away from the car which is in view so You could possibly take from that, that the shooting occurred outside of the car.

Thanks I had no idea that /s had a meaning ?

seamus

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

One thing that strikes me is how spur of the moment this seems to be. He told his wife he was off away for the evening.

Then he abducts the victim from side of the road. If it was totally random and he had no prior connection to her it truly is a strange case.

I suspect the "no prior connection" thing will turn out to be untrue.

No prior connection that anyone was aware of.

average_runner

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

One thing that strikes me is how spur of the moment this seems to be. He told his wife he was off away for the evening.

Then he abducts the victim from side of the road. If it was totally random and he had no prior connection to her it truly is a strange case.

We will find out there is a connection here, not very often these are a spur of the moment thing

allthedoyles

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-think-ive-seen-something-terrible-what-eyewitness-said-after-spotting-suspected-abduction-36928400.html

Gwen Cooper

seamus wrote: »

I suspect the "no prior connection" thing will turn out to be untrue.

No prior connection that anyone was aware of.

I agree with you there. I don't believe that he was just driving around with the intention of kidnapping just anyone, that would be quite rare.

Amalgam

Sadly, a lot of men have odd preconceived ideas about Asian women, I wouldn't be trying to tar her with some emotional connection.

I don't think some baldy feck looking like Beaker from The Muppets would have been a woman magnet..

The Bishop Basher

Amalgam wrote: »

That you have an axe to grind.. regarding the AGS, regardless of this event.

Yes I do. Why wouldn't I ?

We have a corrupt Garda force with that corruption sanctioned and ordered from the very top down.

I find it confusing that normal tax paying, law abiding people wouldn't have an axe to grind.

A corrupt and dishonest force threatens the very core of our democracy.

I don't know what happened here last night. Maybe AGS acted appropriately, maybe they didn't.

All i'm saying is we'll never know the truth because it'll be covered up as has always been done in the past.

This seems to have ruffled a few feathers but hey ho.. Facts are facts.

PokeHerKing

I think it's fair to say if the suspect was shot outside the vehicle than he most likey made a move towards the guard and was rightly put down.

If he was shot inside the vehicle than I think it's fair to say the guard or guards over reacted.

I've no axe to grind with AGS. Guards are human, mistakes happen. Hopefully this shooting was outside the vehicle and the guards lives were threatened.

Wetbench4

Maybe he tried to run a guard over and he got shot in arm and head through the windscreen. Im betting he was still off his head from the night before. All purely speculation of course..

munsterlegend

average_runner wrote: »

Highly unlikely.

I actually praise the Gardai here, someone pulls a knife on them, all bets are off.
The sooner we have less people like this in the world the better.

I agree with you in certain circumstances. However this man knew where this poor girl was/is and while he may not have co-operated with the Gardai if kept alive, the priority should have been to somehow keep him alive.

We don't know the full circumstances of what happened but we are entitled to question the actions of an Garda siochana. Perhaps Garda felt she was still in the car and in imminent danger which would justify neutralising him.

kingofclay

Amalgam wrote: »

Sadly, a lot of men have odd preconceived ideas about Asian women, I wouldn't be trying to tar her with some emotional connection.

I don't think some baldy feck looking like Beaker from The Muppets would have been a woman magnet..

TBF, he was married but yeah, I totally get the Asian women angle, so it's possible, perhaps he was in a sexless unfulfilled marriage. We don't know. Reports are he punched her, I don't think he'd do that if he knew her, my hunch would be that if he knew her he would have felt a sense of entitlement and just sort of forced her by the arm into the car. Just my theory.

Reati

kingofclay wrote: »

TBF, he was married but yeah, I totally get the Asian women angle, so it's possible, perhaps he was in a sexless unfulfilled marriage. We don't know. Reports are he punched her, I don't think he'd do that if he knew her, my hunch would be that if he knew her he would have felt a sense of entitlement and just sort of forced her by the arm into the car. Just my theory.

News reports that Gardaí do not believe she knew him and it was "random".

ZeroThreat

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

One thing that strikes me is how spur of the moment this seems to be. He told his wife he was off away for the evening.

Then he abducts the victim from side of the road. If it was totally random and he had no prior connection to her it truly is a strange case.

Not really strange for Ireland tbh. This country seems to have an unusually high number of head-bangers for its size.

eviltwin

kingofclay wrote: »

TBF, he was married but yeah, I totally get the Asian women angle, so it's possible, perhaps he was in a sexless unfulfilled marriage. We don't know. Reports are he punched her, I don't think he'd do that if he knew her, my hunch would be that if he knew her he would have felt a sense of entitlement and just sort of forced her by the arm into the car. Just my theory.

He did this cause he was a nutter. Plenty of people in sexless marriages find a way to satisfy their needs without resorting to kidnap. Abducting a woman in the middle of the afternoon is not the action of a rational person.

Captain Obvious

A bit annoying that people tried to approach him despite being specifically told not to.

Following a massive garda appeal for information about the car, Hennessy was sighted at Killiney Dart station yesterday afternoon.

When confronted by members of the public, he mounted a curb in the Qashqai and fled the scene at speed.

listermint

kingofclay wrote: »

TBF, he was married but yeah, I totally get the Asian women angle, so it's possible, perhaps he was in a sexless unfulfilled marriage. We don't know. Reports are he punched her, I don't think he'd do that if he knew her, my hunch would be that if he knew her he would have felt a sense of entitlement and just sort of forced her by the arm into the car. Just my theory.

RTE reported this man had no connection to this woman and everything points to a random attack.

Its most likely he was driving along looking for a target and she was quite small in stature and very easy for him to subdue.

The article indicates that eye witnesses said the jeep suddenly stopped out of now where and he punched the victim in the face throwing her into the boot of the vehicle.

AAAAAAAAA

Wetbench4 wrote: »

Maybe he tried to run a guard over and he got shot in arm and head through the windscreen. Im betting he was still off his head from the night before. All purely speculation of course..

windscreen is intact but the driver's side window is either rolled down or gone from this pic on sky: https://e3.365dm.com/18/05/1096x616/skynews-dublin-police-shoot-dead-man_4316241.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20180521010145

OB1Kildare

just saw pictures of the stretch of road she was taken from - im in kildare and its all too familiar to deirdre jacob - isolated stretch of road , with a bend to obscure vision.

Captain Obvious

Swanner wrote: »

Yes I do. Why wouldn't I ?

I think the issue is more that there are plenty of Garda bashing threads and there are legitimate reasons to distrust Gardaí but this is not the thread and doesn't look like being one of those reasons.

listermint wrote: »

RTE reported this man had no connection to this woman and everything points to a random attack.

Its most likely he was driving along looking for a target and she was quite small in stature and very easy for him to subdue.

The article indicates that eye witnesses said the jeep suddenly stopped out of now where and he punched the victim in the face throwing her into the boot of the vehicle.

It's not hard to see why people have such a hard time accepting that though. It's just bizarre. I'm not saying it's not the case, just that it's understandable why people have such difficulty accepting it.

CeilingFly

Captain Obvious wrote: »

A bit annoying that people tried to approach him despite being specifically told not to.

and one of the board's part-time sleuths even said he was out looking for the car and came upon the scene in cherrywood. - Gardai told him to eff off.

Mrsmum

kingofclay wrote: »

TBF, he was married but yeah, I totally get the Asian women angle, so it's possible, perhaps he was in a sexless unfulfilled marriage. We don't know. Reports are he punched her, I don't think he'd do that if he knew her, my hunch would be that if he knew her he would have felt a sense of entitlement and just sort of forced her by the arm into the car. Just my theory.

It really is ridiculous speculating on his marriage. It wouldn't be the first time someone in a normal marriage had a secret dark side eg Graham Dwyer.

Flippyfloppy

A connection to Jo jo Dullard et al is extremely unlikely, but there are plenty of more recent missing women in Ireland. Loads of non nationals that barely get reported, and another lady who disappeared in odd circumstances whose car was found at Bray head nonetheless.

I dread to think, if she wasn't sighted being abducted, would her disappearance have been taken seriously at all??

kingofclay

OB1Kildare wrote: »

just saw pictures of the stretch of road she was taken from - im in kildare and its all too familiar to deirdre jacob - isolated stretch of road , with a bend to obscure vision.

Only thing is that's it's summer in Enniskerry on a very nice day. It's not that isolated.

listermint

OB1Kildare wrote: »

just saw pictures of the stretch of road she was taken from - im in kildare and its all too familiar to deirdre jacob - isolated stretch of road , with a bend to obscure vision.

Its a very busy road especially at the weekends.