The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

vladmydad

NIMAN wrote: »

vladmydad wrote: »

There is one issue that I haven’t heard about. If yes wins , I don’t want to contribute financially towards abortions and I don’t want to become a tax dodger, so what do you suggest ? Some sort of tax rebate or those having abortions must pay for them

Sorry no, you can't pick and choose where you income tax goes to.

No it’s ok, I’m a landlord so it’s quite easy to withhold tax ,it’s just a question of how much

Cantona's Collars

Losty Dublin wrote: »

So there are still No leaflets going into houses in Tallaght long after midnight. They also have a car going around Fettercairn., tannoy a pumping, spreading their message :eek:

Fecking joy(less) riders.

Sorry.

Gardai should do them for disturbing the peace.
They are so interested in "caring for babies" yet are keeping those in your area awake with their noise blaring at this hour.

SusieBlue

Sheeps wrote: »

Does a woman having taken an abortion pill flush the fetus down the toilet or give it a burial? What is the norm?

It would be similar to a miscarriage, it’s a heavy period.

123balltv

So if Yes to euthanizing healthy babies can we do the same for adults suffering agonizing pain

gctest50

vladmydad wrote: »

There is one issue that I haven’t heard about. If yes wins , I don’t want to contribute financially towards abortions and I don’t want to become a tax dodger, so what do you suggest ? Some sort of tax rebate or those having abortions must pay for them

Stop that and be a good little worker drone like the rest of us

Hotblack Desiato

sideswipe wrote: »

Whatever the result tomorrow I just hope there is no mass celebrations and hoisting people up on shoulders from either side, respect and decorium would be far more fitting.

Yet another attempt from the losers to police the winners.

Women gaining control over their own healthcare and bodies is VERY MUCH a cause for celebration. Whether we subsequently get an abortion law, or not.

G'way with the "whatever the result is" spiel, it's perfectly obvious what you wish the result was.

SusieBlue

123balltv wrote: »

So if Yes to euthanizing healthy babies can we do the same for adults suffering agonizing pain

Hopefully we’ll have a euthanasia referendum in our life time. Fingers crossed it’ll be sooner rather than later!

No one is advocating euthanizing healthy babies, you’ve been misinformed.

Ave Sodalis

Not sure if this has been posted (not been following the thread today) but the Liberal have been going crazy with their articles! I mean, a misleading, scaremongering article posted every half hour or so. I think it's safe to say that Sherlock is a bit worried...

Overheal

antiskeptic wrote: »

If not 'anywhere close' how close.

The UK has a rate of 1 abortions to every 4 live births. On the debate the other night, the estimate for here was 1 in 12

???

Do you have a source for this claim yet

Assuming you find one, are you aware that the reasons for abortions might not correlate with live births? That is, a woman who frequently miscarries has way more abortions than births, but that doesn’t mean given the choice that she isn’t trying to conceive a child.

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

I didn't make the comment.
It was made in relation to trusting women by another poster.
I do find it interesting that you've never heard of the case, you do live in Ireland I take it?

No I live in South Carolina. I last lived in Ireland in 2008.

And I had made the quip about trusting women. The statement is admittedly very boiled down for the purposes of the referendum but I trust most understand what is meant by it in the context of the issue.

123balltv

Less welfare payments and supports? for single Mother's governments dream

jill_valentine

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Fecking joy(less) riders.

Sorry.

Gardai should do them for disturbing the peace.
They are so interested in "caring for babies" yet are keeping those in your area awake with their noise blaring at this hour.

They were driving around here with The Final Countdown blaring the other day. Had a touch of Arrested Development about it.

Galwayguy35

cournioni wrote: »

On another note, should the Yes vote pass. Harris and the HSE will have to get their bloody act together. Support for mental health is diabolical so I would hate to see what another complex issue landed at their door will do. Harris claiming to be a bastion for womens health, yet cannot even provide proper cervical checks.

To be fair to the man he isn't that long in the job yet so maybe give him a chance.

Maybe direct your anger at those in the HSE who are years in the job.

Hotblack Desiato

cournioni wrote: »

Alive inside the womb is an acceptable killing but outside it’s deemed murder?

Got it in one

/thread

Larbre34

123balltv wrote: »

So if Yes to euthanizing healthy babies can we do the same for adults suffering agonizing pain

Euthanasia and neutrality will be the big imponderables over the next decade.

Me, I would willingly assist a loved one seeking to end the agony of serious illness.

My mother often cites an old Aunt of hers, back in the 60s, riddled with cancer she had the heart of an ox that my mothers family are all blessed with, but my mother reckons she was so far gone, so morbid with cancer that parts of her actually began to decompose before her heart finally gave in. I know what the humane act would be there.

Hotblack Desiato

NuMarvel wrote: »

Do NOT dial 999. This is not an emergency.

An Garda Siochana have failed to provide a national non-emergency number to dial, so in the meantime if you want to report a CRIME then the number to report a CRIME is 999.

gctest50

jill_valentine wrote: »

They were driving around here with The Final Countdown blaring the other day. Had a touch of Arrested Development about it.

except y'know

_Dara_

cournioni wrote: »

Do you want to include Varadkar too?

I want to include the HSE.

Hotblack Desiato

cournioni wrote: »

On another note, should the Yes vote pass. Harris and the HSE will have to get their bloody act together. Support for mental health is diabolical so I would hate to see what another complex issue landed at their door will do. Harris claiming to be a bastion for womens health, yet cannot even provide proper cervical checks.

Yeah, pretend you care. These issues are not "should the Yes vote pass". They're here and now and have been for years.

jigglypuffstuff

SusieBlue wrote: »

Well seeing as we’re being condescending to each other, yes hun, I can read.

The point I was making was that in the post previous to that, I said that many of the men throwing around the word feminist/feminazi as an insult are the ones who only seem to be concerned with women aborting without their permission.

You then went on to refer to what I said as veiled with a feminist curtain. Irony.

That's not true though...I am vocal about not voting because of the fact that there's both provision that's drastically needed yet simultaneously provision that is outright unnecessary and reduces the value of an unborn human life to little more than transactional

I am quite frankly disgusted with how the government handled this... because bundling the two of those together is not something that's needed bor required

You think I don't see that? Not every person who speaks out about the 12 weeks unlimited proposal is against any provision.... personally that section just shifts the accountability...and I can assure you that people will abuse that as a means of "hindsight contraception"

I know of nobody that's had a FFA, rape case or indeed anything that could be labelled as a "crisis"

I know a whole lot of stupid men and women who decided they were irresponsible and hopped over to the UK to "fix it"...and in from a small town of 5000... But you generally won't hear about those cases... because abortion isn't something people tend to brag about

If anyone believes that period won't be abused... they have their head in the sand.

And to claim men are controlling because they don't want their baby Aborted against their wishes is a statement veiled with feministic tones. That's not an insult at all... because #1 you've no basis to say it and #2 it victimises women and blames men... which is generally what feminists do

Here's the objective view. If men and women are so against procreation to the point they'd abort if it happened....then they shouldn't have sexual intercourse to begin with. Because when you strip away all the nonsense and subjective sense of entitlement, what you find is the primary biological purpose of coitus is procreation.

Just her

Overheal wrote: »

Do you have a source for this claim yet

Assuming you find one, are you aware that the reasons for abortions might not correlate with live births? That is, a woman who frequently miscarries has way more abortions than births, but that doesn’t mean given the choice that she isn’t trying to conceive a child.

What is your source? I've put up a post explaining where the 1 in 5 figure, I believe has come from. NHS abortion figures and ons live birth figures. They are quite clearly not talking about miscarriages in the abortion figures. They even explain how the abortions are funded and who is allowed to perform them.

Losty Dublin

NIMAN wrote: »

Re: calling the cops if you see a poster within 50/100m of a polling station, is it also against the law to walk into a station with a YES or NO lapel badge on?

You may be refused to be issued a ballot paper but what will happen is that they simply won't issue it until you remove or cover up same.

In relation to garda activities at polling stations, calls from Polling Station will be answered as high priority, and most likely by detective units. Or at least they were in 2009 and 2011 when last I did Election station duties.

Just her

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

An Garda Siochana have failed to provide a national non-emergency number to dial, so in the meantime if you want to report a CRIME then the number to report a CRIME is 999.

Have you any sense? You want people to block emergency services phone lines up with silly calls about posters, making people with real emergencies wait while you go through a rigmarole with a 999 operator? Yeah showing real compassion and caring there.

Hotblack Desiato

Losty Dublin wrote: »

You may be refused to be issued a ballot paper but what will happen is that they simply won't issue it until you remove or cover up same.

You may be refused admission to the polling station, failure to comply will result in arrest by the garda in attendance.

spookwoman

SusieBlue wrote: »

It would be similar to a miscarriage, it’s a heavy period.

I'd say quite a few of the no's in here if they had a heavy painful period would be running the nearest a+e thinking they were dying.

PARlance

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

An Garda Siochana have failed to provide a national non-emergency number to dial, so in the meantime if you want to report a CRIME then the number to report a CRIME is 999.

Wow. You do know that you can call your local station. Save the emergency number for emergencies ffs.

Graham

Just her wrote: »

What is your source? I've put up a post explaining where the 1 in 5 figure, I believe has come from. NHS abortion figures and ons live birth figures. They are quite clearly not talking about miscarriages in the abortion figures. They even explain how the abortions are funded and who is allowed to perform them.

All of the fact checks state the 1 in 5 is inaccurate. There are no accurate figures.

Overheal

pone2012 wrote: »

That's not true though...I am vocal about not voting because of the fact that there's both provision that's drastically needed yet simultaneously provision that is outright unnecessary and reduces the value of an unborn human life to little more than transactional

I am quite frankly disgusted with how the government handled this... because bundling the two of those together is not something that's needed bor required

You think I don't see that? Not every person who speaks out about the 12 weeks unlimited proposal is against any provision.... personally that section just shifts the accountability...and I can assure you that people will abuse that as a means of "hindsight contraception"

I know of nobody that's had a FFA, rape case or indeed anything that could be labelled as a "crisis"

I know a whole lot of stupid men and women who decided they were irresponsible and hopped over to the UK to "fix it"...and in from a small town of 5000... But you generally won't hear about those cases... because abortion isn't something people tend to brag about

If anyone believes that period won't be abused... they have their head in the sand.

And to claim men are controlling because they don't want their baby Aborted against their wishes is a statement veiled with feministic tones. That's not an insult at all... because #1 you've no basis to say it and #2 it victimises women and blames men... which is generally what feminists do

Here's the objective view. If men and women are so against procreation to the point they'd abort if it happened....then they shouldn't have sexual intercourse to begin with. Because when you strip away all the nonsense and subjective sense of entitlement, what you find is the primary biological purpose of coitus is procreation.

“Never have sex for pleasure or intimacy again! Vote No!”

Yeah not arguing with the biology, but I can see why this might not be the best angle of attack for the No side to sway undecideds.

Cantona's Collars

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Not sure if this has been posted (not been following the thread today) but the Liberal have been going crazy with their articles! I mean, a misleading, scaremongering article posted every half hour or so. I think it's safe to say that Sherlock is a bit worried...

I never read an article on that site,I had a quick look there and the headlines alone were enough to have me close the tab.

Just her

Graham wrote: »

All of the fact checks state the 1 in 5 is inaccurate. There are no accurate figures.

Ok well I've just looked up a fact check and it says it could neither support nor refute the claim . It didn't say it was inaccurate. How are people coming up with other figures?

It's down to not having figures for miscarriages from what I can read? How can miscarriage rates be incorporated successfully anyway? Some pregnancies that were miscarried early would have been aborted if they had gone on longer, and some wouldn't.

davedanon

AMKC wrote: »

So has everyone made their mind up on what way they are voting? Its 7 and a half hours till the voting stations open and I am still undecided but am leaning one way more than the other and a part of me just wants to spoil my vote with a line in the middle of the page. This is the first time since I have been able to vote in 20 years that I find the whole thing very boring, uninteresting and do not have a problem if people do or do not vote. It is the first time I have thought about spoiling my vote. I will sleep on it and decide tomorrow whenever I vote.

F*ck off then and stay in bed. Twat.


Mod-Banned

Hotblack Desiato

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

I never read an article on that site,I had a quick look there and the headlines alone were enough to have me close the tab.

They're a lunatic outfit run by Cora Sherlock's brother, famous for plagiarism, copyright infrigement and downright lies.

Overheal

PARlance wrote: »

Wow. You do know that you can call your local station. Save the emergency number for emergencies ffs.

If the Yes side was doing it would it be an emergency since they want to try and murder the babies

NIMAN

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

You may be refused admission to the polling station, failure to comply will result in arrest by the garda in attendance.

I've never seen a Guard in, or near, my local polling station. Ever.

Stonedpilot

Alot of people online gonna vote No. Maybe the liberalist and government brainwashing has failed?.

As a lady who use to work as a Doctor in the UK said on Claire Byrne "If people seen how horrific abortion actually really is I think they would all vote No".

Words to bear in mind!.

i find myself wondering what all of the ppl deeply concerned about what irish women do with their own bodies will do with themselves from tomorrow onwards.

i mean theyll have a lot of time freed up all of a sudden, and they all have internet access so theres that

on the other hand...and its just my own personal pov obv...but theres not exactly a huge range of useful tasks youd actually trust them to do, like

its a pickle.

Overheal

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Alot of people online gonna vote No. Maybe the liberalist and government brainwashing has failed?.

As a lady who use to work as a Doctor in the UK said on Claire Byrne "If people seen how horrific abortion actually really is I think they would all vote No".

Words to bear in mind!.

Having seen it (even in its accurate context, not misleadingly labeled or misrepresented or used to claim the sale of baby parts etc etc etc) and I would still vote Yes given the chance.

circular flexing

Overheal wrote: »

Having seen it (even in its accurate context, not misleadingly labeled or misrepresented or used to claim the sale of baby parts etc etc etc) and I would still vote Yes given the chance.

Yep me too. It doesn't really matter how "horrific" the procedure is, what matters is that women will have a choice with what they want to do with their bodies.

jigglypuffstuff

Overheal wrote: »

“Never have sex for pleasure or intimacy again! Vote No!”

Yeah not arguing with the biology, but I can see why this might not be the best angle of attack for the No side to sway undecideds.

Again...I would reiterate I'm not a "no voter" nor am I suggestiong that everyone never have sex for pleasure

What I am saying is that if the end result of said pleasure is enough to make you want to terminate the life of an unborn... perhaps your pleasure is best derived from a supplementary activity. I'm being very specific here

Let's be realistic....from an ethical standpoint it's hard to argue it. People will never be detached from their preconceived notions about what they feel "entitled" to...but that doesn't really change the fact that if someone is that adverse to pregnancy to the point they'd terminate an unborns life... there's an option which means a little self sacrifice will avoid it all.

This option is not explored because it would mean sacrifice on the individuals behalf...and people generally don't like sacrifice... but that's not the point really. When you reduce it to objective facts it's utility is workable to the point it would save unborns lives

pleas advice

Deleted User wrote: »

i find myself wondering what all of the ppl deeply concerned about what irish women do with their own bodies will do with themselves from tomorrow onwards.

i mean theyll have a lot of time freed up all of a sudden, and they all have internet access so theres that

on the other hand...and its just my own personal pov obv...but theres not exactly a huge range of useful tasks youd actually trust them to do, like

:rolleyes:

its a pickle.

...

Cantona's Collars

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Alot of people online gonna vote No. Maybe the liberalist and government brainwashing has failed?.

As a lady who use to work as a Doctor in the UK said on Claire Byrne "If people seen how horrific abortion actually really is I think they would all vote No".

Words to bear in mind!.

If people saw any kind of surgery they wouldn't like it but sometimes it's necessary to save someone's life.

Hotblack Desiato

If we're judging by how horrific something is, we'd ban birth.

After my first born emerged there were blood spatters on the wall two metres away. Grade 3 tear which needed a surgical vaginal repair.

Pregnancies 2, 3, 4 miscarried in the first trimester, nobody even pretends to care about that, but if they were aborted in the first trimester it would have been horrific :rolleyes:

Pregnancy 5 came out the sunroof, it's glossed over but it's major surgery with a long recovery time and has implications if you want to be pregnant again.

pleas advice

circular flexing wrote: »

Yep me too. It doesn't really matter how "horrific" the procedure is, what matters is that women will have a choice with what they want to do with their bodies.

if it was their bodies, only, do you really think anyone would have a problem?

seriously and honestly?

Grayditch

It's been special.

Ken.

Mod-And on that note with 5 hours left till the polls open we will lock this up. Personally I would like to thank everyone that has contributed over the 4 threads. Remember, whichever way your swayed to get out and vote. You can't bitch about the result if you don't take part.


Please don't start any new threads till after the polls close at 10 pm Friday evening.