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Big open air Busk (busking bye-laws)

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13

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    #62
    ben.schlomo
    Registered Users Posts: 12,141 ✭✭✭✭ben.schlomo


    Ah yes the art form of blaring out Ed Sheeran or U2 songs with the help of an amp, how cultured. Just two examples from Shop St yesterday.


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    #63
    pure.conya
    Registered Users Posts: 904 ✭✭✭pure.conya


    ben.schlomo wrote: »
    Ah yes the art form of blaring out Ed Sheeran or U2 songs with the help of an amp, how cultured. Just two examples from Shop St yesterday.

    whoop whoop it's the playlist police yo


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    #64
    ben.schlomo
    Registered Users Posts: 12,141 ✭✭✭✭ben.schlomo


    pure.conya wrote: »
    ben.schlomo wrote: »
    Ah yes the art form of blaring out Ed Sheeran or U2 songs with the help of an amp, how cultured. Just two examples from Shop St yesterday.

    whoop whoop it's the playlist police yo
    Congrats on missing the point. Whoop whoop indeed.


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    #65
    inisboffin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭inisboffin


    Ah sure back to 28 versions of 'shoe the donkey' and several hundred men singing Spancil Hill.:rolleyes: (for the record I actually like that tune and that song, but anything is overdone is a pain).

    Buskers get asked to do stuff you know and people tip for requests, it's not necessarily that it's the only thing they can play. Both versions of Galway Girl along with Wagon Wheel fall into that category too. For constant U2 I blame the Yanks :pac:as apparently thats a huge 'recognition tip' draw. Plenty of buskers do originals mixed with covers but expect homogenisation big time if the bye laws stay in as they are.


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    #66
    Homelander
    Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Homelander


    There was actually a guy blasting out the bagpipes on Shop Street yesterday. Perfect case in point of why the bye-laws are needed, but flawed in current form. I'd almost be cynical enough to believe it was intentional to prove such a point. Poor girl in a shop I went into said she was driven demented by it all day in a sort of "I'm laughing but it's not funny" sort of way.


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    #67
    inisboffin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭inisboffin


    Homelander wrote: »
    There was actually a guy blasting out the bagpipes on Shop Street yesterday. Perfect case in point of why the bye-laws are needed, but flawed in current form. I'd almost be cynical enough to believe it was intentional to prove such a point. Poor girl in a shop I went into said she was driven demented by it all day in a sort of "I'm laughing but it's not funny" sort of way.

    When I lived in town there was a bagpiper who played one summer. I 100% agree we need some guidelines/regulation and also agree these laws are not it. He used to play at EIGHT in the morning. A lot of us worked nights and this was torture. After a week enough angry people got to him so he started playing at 10 pm and went for 3 or 4 hours at a time, p*ssing off a load more people. The two hour thing makes sense, stopping and starting at normal pub hours makes sense, but the busker community were already advocating for this. The time thing is already a law and came in a few years ago.


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    #68
    GalwayGrrrrrl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,519 ✭✭✭GalwayGrrrrrl


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    if one was outside my store, i'd be understandably worried about any potential drop in foot traffic. (though i'd love to see any stats of if big acts actually affect business)..
    I was in Easons a few days ago and a large band were playing opposite the entrance. I was trying to choose a book for a gift and was so distracted by the large noise from the band that I couldn’t concentrate on the books. Left empty handed. I’m usually a supporter of the buskers, I love music and enjoy the vibe that the buskers create. But recently it seems to have gone too loud and circles too large.


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    #69
    inisboffin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭inisboffin


    To the last poster, I had to laugh out loud because yesterday in a conversation about the buskers I heard this (If I'm paraphrasing it's only slightly, but it's so similar enough to me I had to post it after the last poster to show a counter opinion)

    I was heading through town the other day not planning to shop, when I stopped to listen to a great band opposite Easons (*not kidding, same spot*). I ended up staying a half hour, buying a pair of shoes I spotted and then food in McCambridges. These effin buskers are expensive :pac:


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    #70
    Paddico
    Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭Paddico


    ben.schlomo wrote: »
    Ah yes the art form of blaring out Ed Sheeran or U2 songs with the help of an amp, how cultured. Just two examples from Shop St yesterday.

    Just cause you dont like it .....


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    #71
    ben.schlomo
    Registered Users Posts: 12,141 ✭✭✭✭ben.schlomo


    Paddico wrote: »
    ben.schlomo wrote: »
    Ah yes the art form of blaring out Ed Sheeran or U2 songs with the help of an amp, how cultured. Just two examples from Shop St yesterday.

    Just cause you dont like it .....
    Very good, missed the point and really expanded on the reply I already got. Thanks.


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    #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The law on not drawing a crowd is specifically to stop the clowns who setup at the top of shop street, make a huge circle of people and block the entire entrance. People saying that more than 3 people and you will have to stop are blowing it out of proportion.


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    #73
    inisboffin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭inisboffin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The law on not drawing a crowd is specifically to stop the clowns who setup at the top of shop street, make a huge circle of people and block the entire entrance. People saying that more than 3 people and you will have to stop are blowing it out of proportion.

    Abuse was awful when it happened, but the Buskers were slowly but surely making it better with their code. It takes a few seasons of travelling buskers to get it in any country.

    It's absolutely not blown out of proportion . If it's in bye laws and some gobs**te calls it in they have to act on it. It will be in the Council minutes. The danger is the vagueness of these laws. If they mean 10+ people SAY it, but as it stands, a family with a buggy stopped could cause a busker to have to stop playing.


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    #74
    ben.schlomo
    Registered Users Posts: 12,141 ✭✭✭✭ben.schlomo


    inisboffin wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    The law on not drawing a crowd is specifically to stop the clowns who setup at the top of shop street, make a huge circle of people and block the entire entrance. People saying that more than 3 people and you will have to stop are blowing it out of proportion.

    Abuse was awful when it happened, but the Buskers were slowly but surely making it better with their code. It takes a few seasons of travelling buskers to get it in any country.

    It's absolutely not blown out of proportion . If it's in bye laws and some gobs**te calls it in they have to act on it. It will be in the Council minutes. The danger is the vagueness of these laws. If they mean 10+ people SAY it, but as it stands, a family with a buggy stopped could cause a busker to have to stop playing.
    The circle acts at the top of Shop St have been there all summer blocking the street, no different to any other year.


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    #75
    inisboffin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭inisboffin


    ben.schlomo wrote: »
    The circle acts at the top of Shop St have been there all summer blocking the street, no different to any other year.

    Not according to people who work there! Much better but room for improvement is what they said. Overall positive. Some regular circle acts never came this year because of all the sh**e. Besides under the new laws almost everyone is defined as a circle act - if people stop to listen to you. The laws themselves are the overreaction.


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    #76
    ben.schlomo
    Registered Users Posts: 12,141 ✭✭✭✭ben.schlomo


    inisboffin wrote: »
    ben.schlomo wrote: »
    The circle acts at the top of Shop St have been there all summer blocking the street, no different to any other year.

    Not according to people who work there! Much better but room for improvement is what they said. Overall positive. Some regular circle acts never came this year because of all the sh**e. Besides under the new laws almost everyone is defined as a circle act - if people stop to listen to you. The laws themselves are the overreaction.
    I must have dreamt up being forced up the narrow space either side of the street with the buggy or bike then, while some lad tried to get out of a straight jacket, or another threw fire in the air or others literally jumped around clapping, my bad. Your attitude towards the bylaws does appear as an over reaction too imo.


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    #77
    inisboffin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭inisboffin


    ben.schlomo wrote: »
    I must have dreamt up being forced up the narrow space either side of the street with the buggy or bike then, while some lad tried to get out of a straight jacket, or another threw fire in the air or others literally jumped around clapping, my bad. Your attitude towards the bylaws does appear as an over reaction too imo.

    Are you genuinely saying you don’t see any improvement? I’ve a family member working nearby and visit a business there twice a week, as well as pass it almost daily. I think it’s miles better.
    Some of these laws I see the reason behind (although really badly framed, there are much better ways to do it) but some are just nuts, no overreaction there.


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    #78
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,945 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    I'm there every day. It's much better, except on Saturdays where it's manic overall.


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    #79
    ben.schlomo
    Registered Users Posts: 12,141 ✭✭✭✭ben.schlomo


    inisboffin wrote: »
    ben.schlomo wrote: »
    I must have dreamt up being forced up the narrow space either side of the street with the buggy or bike then, while some lad tried to get out of a straight jacket, or another threw fire in the air or others literally jumped around clapping, my bad. Your attitude towards the bylaws does appear as an over reaction too imo.

    Are you genuinely saying you don’t see any improvement? I’ve a family member working nearby and visit a business there twice a week, as well as pass it almost daily. I think it’s miles better.
    Some of these laws I see the reason behind (although really badly framed, there are much better ways to do it) but some are just nuts, no overreaction there.
    I'm there 5 days a week, sometimes 6 and there'd be circle acts on at least 2/3, if that's an improvement then fair enough but 0 would be the amount that I'd class as optimal.


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    #80
    inisboffin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭inisboffin


    ben.schlomo wrote: »
    I'm there 5 days a week, sometimes 6 and there'd be circle acts on at least 2/3, if that's an improvement then fair enough but 0 would be the amount that I'd class as optimal.

    Was it weekends mostly? One thing (among many) that irks me is how they have taken away a huge amount for kids. Saturdays and Sundays at least should have been considered differently. No puppet shows, no street theatre allowed before 6 which is when many of the wee ones will be gone. Baloon artists and anywhere people stop to watch (sean nós dancer even with a fiddle) is now a circle act.
    I take it as a given that weekends will be mobbed in town, buskers or not.


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    #81
    begsbyOnaTrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭begsbyOnaTrain


    No need for by-laws. Just have a once-a-week random walk up Shop Street by someone from Revenue Commissioners making sure that anyone earning money on the street is all properly set up to pay what taxes they owe...


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    #82
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,945 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »
    No need for by-laws. Just have a once-a-week random walk up Shop Street by someone from Revenue Commissioners making sure that anyone earning money on the street is all properly set up to pay what taxes they owe...

    You would be surprised how many of the regulars are set up.


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    #83
    inisboffin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭inisboffin


    begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »
    No need for by-laws. Just have a once-a-week random walk up Shop Street by someone from Revenue Commissioners making sure that anyone earning money on the street is all properly set up to pay what taxes they owe...

    Masked guitarists are the only ones that would get away with swindling. Are you kidding? Revenue and Social Welfare are all over it for the last number of years. If you are over the threshold from income you pay taxes.


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    #84
    begsbyOnaTrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭begsbyOnaTrain


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    You would be surprised how many of the regulars are set up.

    If it's one or more, you're right. I'd be astounded.


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    #85
    Roadtoad
    Registered Users Posts: 768 ✭✭✭Roadtoad


    Isn't artists income tax free?
    Can we blame this on CJ Haughey?


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    #86
    Kingp35
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,272 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kingp35


    Roadtoad wrote: »
    Isn't artists income tax free?
    Can we blame this on CJ Haughey?

    Money earned from original works is tax free. Playing covers on shop street wouldn't count for an artist exemption.


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    #87
    inisboffin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭inisboffin


    Roadtoad wrote: »
    Isn't artists income tax free?
    Can we blame this on CJ Haughey?

    This is a total myth that artists don't pay tax. Money earned from a 'thing' like a CD, book, painting etc CAN be tax free up to a point. You have to apply for an exemption by sending in 4 book copies etc.
    Money made from a gig, a performance, concert is not tax exempt, no matter what you are singing.


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    #88
    inisboffin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭inisboffin


    Kingp35 wrote: »
    Money earned from original works is tax free. Playing covers on shop street wouldn't count for an artist exemption.

    Not true, see above. And afaik busking falls under 'gifts' so the usual tax threshold will apply to people regarding that.


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    #89
    Kingp35
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,272 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kingp35


    inisboffin wrote: »
    Not true, see above. And afaik busking falls under 'gifts' so the usual tax threshold will apply to people regarding that.

    That's what I meant. Original works are generally tax free up a threshold of €50,000 per year. Most admission income to concerts etc. are liable for tax and are also liable for VAT if food or drink are sold at the performance.

    Busking income is not 'gifts', it's regular income. If a busker earns under €5,000 they can file a form 12 and pay their taxes under the PAYE system. If they earn over €5,000 they must register as self-assessed and file a form 11.

    Revenue do spot checks on buskers but it's quite rare and I would imagine a lot of buskers get away with paying no tax.


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    #90
    inisboffin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭inisboffin


    Kingp35 wrote: »
    That's what I meant. Original works are generally tax free up a threshold of €50,000 per year. Most admission income to concerts etc. are liable for tax and are also liable for VAT if food or drink are sold at the performance.

    Busking income is not 'gifts', it's regular income. If a busker earns under €5,000 they can file a form 12 and pay their taxes under the PAYE system. If they earn over €5,000 they must register as self-assessed and file a form 11.

    Revenue do spot checks on buskers but it's quite rare and I would imagine a lot of buskers get away with paying no tax.

    It is classified as gifts according to some arts sites, as it is donation not a payment. They don't get relief in the same way but that's the category apparently (probably for want of a better one!) But it depends if the busker is self employed or paye, and they can also be both PAYE and Self Assessed over 5k or a combo.

    NO gigs or performances are tax exempt, regardless of food/drink. Tax exemption only applies to a 'thing', whether original work or not. For example you can claim on the sale of a book, but not income from a reading.

    People have lots of misconceptions about artist filing, including many artists themselves!


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    #91
    pure.conya
    Registered Users Posts: 904 ✭✭✭pure.conya


    inisboffin wrote: »
    To the last poster, I had to laugh out loud because yesterday in a conversation about the buskers I heard this (If I'm paraphrasing it's only slightly, but it's so similar enough to me I had to post it after the last poster to show a counter opinion)

    I was heading through town the other day not planning to shop, when I stopped to listen to a great band opposite Easons (*not kidding, same spot*). I ended up staying a half hour, buying a pair of shoes I spotted and then food in McCambridges. These effin buskers are expensive :pac:

    I've lost count the amount of times I've spent money in town after listening to the buskers :)


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