Work issue with holidays

Banterbus28

C3PO wrote: »

I'm surprised that the company let it get to this stage - they would appear to have lost a good employee and the OP has lost a job! Seems to show a complete lack of common sense!

Yanks mate.

Afraid they'll get sacked due to blame culture and zero employment protection in US workplaces so if they rigidly stick to policy so they can't get sacked.

Steven Seagal

Hey folks sorry for the delay, it’s been a hectic week finishing up.
I left today at 5 after a very bitter week.
My meeting on Monday was quite long but the eu director, hr manager and my immediate boss (the one that verbally approved my pto) sat in.
Hr read off a generic list of questions that she obviously asked every employee then at the end asked ‘if you have any negative experiences with this conpany, please let is know’. I basically read off a timeline of the whole issue I had printed to her and the eu manager said he was appalled. He cut the exit interview off, asked me to leave for a few mins so I sat outside and heard a lot of shouting.
He then came out and asked to cone back at 4pm for a meeting with just him and the US boss that denied my PTO.
The 4 oclock meeting was extremely awkward but the US manager started to play dumb saying she wasnt aware of all the details of this.
I gave the eu manager my full timeline of events that I had printed and again he asked me to leave.
Cue a lot more shouting.
The next morning I had an email from the US manager saying she was extremely disappointed with my comments about her and would reflect badly on me when attempting to land a new role. I didnt reply and forwarded it on to the EU director.
On Wednesday, he called me in and apologised how it had been handled and offered to remedy it by allowing my PTO request and well as changing the internal policy for applying for time off.
I told him I had another job lined up already (not true) and the email I got from the US the day before had left no doubt in my mind it would be a toxic work environment if I was to stay.
He then offered me a small payrise (single digit percentage)
Again I refused and shook his hand and left.
I worked my last 2 days with my immediate team who were all very supportive and left at 5 today. As I was leaving my badge in to HR on the way out, I was given an envelope with a nice chunk of cash and letter from the EU manger saying he was understanding of me leaving and wished me all the best.
I have 2 interviews next week so feel like I made the right decision.

uck51js9zml2yt

Steven Seagal wrote: »

Hey folks sorry for the delay, it’s been a hectic week finishing up.
I left today at 5 after a very bitter week.
My meeting on Monday was quite long but the eu director, hr manager and my immediate boss (the one that verbally approved my pto) sat in.
Hr read off a generic list of questions that she obviously asked every employee then at the end asked ‘if you have any negative experiences with this conpany, please let is know’. I basically read off a timeline of the whole issue I had printed to her and the eu manager said he was appalled. He cut the exit interview off, asked me to leave for a few mins so I sat outside and heard a lot of shouting.
He then came out and asked to cone back at 4pm for a meeting with just him and the US boss that denied my PTO.
The 4 oclock meeting was extremely awkward but the US manager started to play dumb saying she wasnt aware of all the details of this.
I gave the eu manager my full timeline of events that I had printed and again he asked me to leave.
Cue a lot more shouting.
The next morning I had an email from the US manager saying she was extremely disappointed with my comments about her and would reflect badly on me when attempting to land a new role. I didnt reply and forwarded it on to the EU director.
On Wednesday, he called me in and apologised how it had been handled and offered to remedy it by allowing my PTO request and well as changing the internal policy for applying for time off.
I told him I had another job lined up already (not true) and the email I got from the US the day before had left no doubt in my mind it would be a toxic work environment if I was to stay.
He then offered me a small payrise (single digit percentage)
Again I refused and shook his hand and left.
I worked my last 2 days with my immediate team who were all very supportive and left at 5 today. As I was leaving my badge in to HR on the way out, I was given an envelope with a nice chunk of cash and letter from the EU manger saying he was understanding of me leaving and wished me all the best.
I have 2 interviews next week so feel like I made the right decision.

Congratulations op. Give the EU manager as a reference!

lisasimpson

How very unprofessional of the US manager to do what they did.. Someday they will learn the hard lesson that they are just another number on payroll at the end of the day and could get shown the door in the blink eye with out warning Happpy for you and best of luck with the interviews

salmocab

This went as well as it could really OP your out of the environment and the people who caused this got themselves the bollocking they earned.
Your in an industry with plenty of work available so you should be sorted quickly. Best of luck.

Macker1

Steven Seagal wrote:

Hey folks sorry for the delay, it’s been a hectic week finishing up. I left today at 5 after a very bitter week. My meeting on Monday was quite long but the eu director, hr manager and my immediate boss (the one that verbally approved my pto) sat in. Hr read off a generic list of questions that she obviously asked every employee then at the end asked ‘if you have any negative experiences with this conpany, please let is know’. I basically read off a timeline of the whole issue I had printed to her and the eu manager said he was appalled. He cut the exit interview off, asked me to leave for a few mins so I sat outside and heard a lot of shouting. He then came out and asked to cone back at 4pm for a meeting with just him and the US boss that denied my PTO. The 4 oclock meeting was extremely awkward but the US manager started to play dumb saying she wasnt aware of all the details of this. I gave the eu manager my full timeline of events that I had printed and again he asked me to leave. Cue a lot more shouting. The next morning I had an email from the US manager saying she was extremely disappointed with my comments about her and would reflect badly on me when attempting to land a new role. I didnt reply and forwarded it on to the EU director. On Wednesday, he called me in and apologised how it had been handled and offered to remedy it by allowing my PTO request and well as changing the internal policy for applying for time off. I told him I had another job lined up already (not true) and the email I got from the US the day before had left no doubt in my mind it would be a toxic work environment if I was to stay. He then offered me a small payrise (single digit percentage) Again I refused and shook his hand and left. I worked my last 2 days with my immediate team who were all very supportive and left at 5 today. As I was leaving my badge in to HR on the way out, I was given an envelope with a nice chunk of cash and letter from the EU manger saying he was understanding of me leaving and wished me all the best. I have 2 interviews next week so feel like I made the right decision.

Fairplay to you. Great to have principles and stick to them. All the best in future. Some employers can be such egits.

domrush

Delighted for ya OP you were dead right

killanena

Bang on Job OP. You handled this whole situation very well.

Eire Go Brach

Well done Steven. Your as cool as a cucumber. To cool for boards.
I don't think I would have been able to remain that calm.

Enjoy the Holidays

jimmycrackcorm

Well played OP. I hope others learn from this that leaving a job by your own choice isn't the worst thing in the world.

Banterbus28

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Well played OP. I hope others learn from this that leaving a job by your own choice isn't the worst thing in the world.

Oh i'm sure atleast a few of you have been tempted by that sales job but after induction they start to explain to you that you will be self employed and paid on a commission only basis.

By time he'd said self-employed i was standing up and putting my coat on by the time he said commission only i was out the door

J Mysterio

How much did you get!?

Eire Go Brach

So what was the company? Amazon data centre by any chance?

Wanderer2010

Well Done OP you are much better off out of there. I have a feeling though that the "shouting" you heard was just for show to make it look as if they were going to go against a manager. Either way you did the right thing by leaving.

Steven Seagal

J Mysterio wrote: »

How much did you get!?

In hindsight I think it was my holiday pay money, i’ll see when I get my last paycheck.

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

So what was the company? Amazon data centre by any chance?

No it was for a payments company.

Postgrad10

You handled all that brilliantly. Don't forget to let us know how you get on at interview.

TallGlass

Steven Seagal wrote: »

In hindsight I think it was my holiday pay money, i’ll see when I get my last paycheck.



No it was for a payments company.

Any legal recourse for her saying she will give you a bad reference. Could be discrimination here in Ireland, fúck her seriously. She needs to be put in her place.

Employers need to route these gob****es out. Make a good company an awful one. I'd say she's on thin ice with the EU director.

doolox

I have worked with two Blue chip American corporations in my time and can vouch for the occasional sheer awfulness of some managers and the vital need to keep records of all performance reports, action items needed doing etc.

I am not the most patient of people but can vouch for keeping your head at all times in work or in any work related function or social event which you may attend.

In my later working life I have followed some rules: Never get drunk with work colleagues or bosses on nights out. Keep yourself to very moderate amounts of alcohol because companies use nights out to gauge true rivalries and potentially toxic relationships or trouble brewing in their teams. The less said the better. Treat work socials and functions as work, not play.

Keep written records of everything and get docs certs, if needed for ALL absences, including those allowed uncertified by some major companies. If working in a physically demanding job or work requiring heights or heavy machinery it is sometimes wiser to take off sick rather than stagger around with some vertigo or some hazardous condition so that taking off sick may be a wiser thing to do.An accident attributable to a previously known illness may get you disciplined even more harshly than an absence. Keep written records of all requests for days off and read the handbook thoroughly if getting it difficult to get time off.

Although risky, the advice of a HR person can be useful to appeal refusals or denials but not so good if the HR person is in your bosses favour unduly. It is up to you to find out the nature of the companies politics and this varies enormously between companies.

Managers in large companies have to abide by a certain code of allowing time off and allotting time off in a systematic manner and I have found that you absolutely need to have written conformation of all time booked off and arrange to let your colleagues know well in advance to avoid clashes and misunderstandings later on. Some managers will try to pull a fast one if confronted with more vocal and demanding subordinates for sudden time off and will try to reverse previously allotted time off, usually on their more timid and less assertive subordinates. With the high cost and long lead times needed for most holidays this can be expensive and difficult to allow.

Depending on the size of the company, workers are allowed to bring a colleague in to an office meeting for morale support but in the OP's case, having the support of two of his managers, his immediate manager and the Eu manager this was probably not necessary.

I have been self employed in a totally different area for the past ten yrs and I am making more for half the time than I would be making in a full time factory job. The vital thing is that I am advanced in years and don have to pay a mortgage, A mortgage or loan would be the only reason to work a 9 to 5 job and unfortunately most younger people have no choice in the matter. The trick is to get through that stage in your life as quickly and as painlessly as possible and eventually BREAK FREE................

Harika

TallGlass wrote: »

Any legal recourse for her saying she will give you a bad reference. Could be discrimination here in Ireland, fúck her seriously. She needs to be put in her place.

I was wondering what would happen here. As e. G. our company has a "no retailiation" policy and such a threat in an email would cause a massive stir at least.

Tell me how

Steven Seagal wrote:

The next morning I had an email from the US manager saying she was extremely disappointed with my comments about her and would reflect badly on me when attempting to land a new role.

TallGlass wrote:

Any legal recourse for her saying she will give you a bad reference. Could be discrimination here in Ireland, fúck her seriously. She needs to be put in her place.

Harika wrote:

I was wondering what would happen here. As e. G. our company has a "no retailiation" policy and such a threat in an email would cause a massive stir at least.

I trust OP you happened to accidentally send a copy of this email to your personal account, or take a screenshot of it.

She's unbelievably idiotic to have actually put such a statement in writing. For me, that act shows just exactly the type of personality you were dealing with.

How does she think her career will go if that got out?

Enjoy holiday and best of luck in new role.

salmocab

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

So what was the company? Amazon data centre by any chance?

Think they’ve started to pay a bit better and look after staff after losing a pile of people

Banterbus28

Never understood tge stupidity of management.

Pay peanuts you'll get monkeys....

Treat people like crap they'll jump ship...

Wanderer78

Banterbus28 wrote:

Never understood tge stupidity of management.

The management I've had to deal with were very intelligent, well informed and very successful in their own right, but if their objectives are continuously to 'maximise profits', this is exactly what they ll do, even if it means, treating employees like ****.

Banterbus28

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote:

Never understood tge stupidity of management.

The management I've had to deal with were very intelligent, well informed and very successful in their own right, but if their objectives are continuously to 'maximise profits', this is exactly what they ll do, even if it means, treating employees like ****.

Then their not intelligent as it clearly costs more money to burn oit staff and then get new people in.

Gwtting new people in isn't cost free...

Wanderer78

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Then their not intelligent as it clearly costs more money to burn oit staff and then get new people in.

Gwtting new people in isn't cost free...

yes, there is an element of unintelligence in this thinking, but that doesnt necessarily mean those that operate under these conditions are themselves unintelligent, my own experiences show me that this is the case, and i suspect im not alone, im sure even many boards members have been or are indeed in this exact situation themselves.

Banterbus28

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Then their not intelligent as it clearly costs more money to burn oit staff and then get new people in.

Gwtting new people in isn't cost free...

yes, there is an element of unintelligence in this thinking, but that doesnt necessarily mean those that operate under these conditions are themselves unintelligent, my own experiences show me that this is the case, and i suspect im not alone, im sure even many boards members have been or are indeed in this exact situation themselves.

Many a study have shown that productivity is exponentially increased by supportive management systems I understand that sime industries the work them till their desd mentaloty works, primarily finance and trading.

Wanderer78

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Many a study have shown that productivity is exponentially increased by supportive management systems I understand that sime industries the work them till their desd mentaloty works, primarily finance and trading.

and many a study has shown, that the wealth gained from this increase in productivity has not been evenly distributed, and that many workers across many sectors have not seen much of an increase in wealth from the increase in their productivity. i think we need a rethink about all this increase in productivity thing, and fast! i will agree though, since the dawn of the era of financialization, something is going very badly wrong with all this stuff, we need an overall rethink, and quickly.

Banterbus28

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Many a study have shown that productivity is exponentially increased by supportive management systems I understand that sime industries the work them till their desd mentaloty works, primarily finance and trading.

and many a study has shown, that the wealth gained from this increase in productivity has not been evenly distributed, and that many workers across many sectors have not seen much of an increase in wealth from the increase in their productivity. i think we need a rethink about all this increase in productivity thing, and fast! i will agree though, since the dawn of the era of financialization, something is going very badly wrong with all this stuff, we need an overall rethink, and quickly.

Easiest solution is instead of cramming every thing into 9-5. Do all the front of house customer and client facing stuff Mon-Fri 9-5. And then have admin monkeys do nightshift to do all the administration 😂😂😂

Wanderer78

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Easiest solution is instead of cramming every thing into 9-5. Do all the front of house customer and client facing stuff Mon-Fri 9-5. And then have admin monkeys do nightshift to do all the administration ������

or maybe do everything 9-5, and simply employ more to do the work during the hours, introduce policies that make sure the wealth created from these processes is actually more evenly distributed, and treat workers with a bit of respect and not like they current are, i.e. worker drones. humans are humans, and its well known, shift work is highly dangerous for humans in relation to their physical and mental health

JustAThought

Well done OP and what an appalling stress and mess for what should be an ordinary happy annual event -a well earned holiday. Hopefully you will get a new job soon with a far better work environment & more trustable and less spineless and toxic 'managers'. Sounds like you are well out of there. Good luck with a new job and with the proposal and having more free hours in the day to spend with the people you love.