The Healy Raes

SlowBlowin

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The people of Kerry are muck savages for voting for those two self-serving gombeens. Mightn’t be what they want to hear, but it’s the truth. Same as the people of Tipperary voting for Lowry and Matty McGrath.

Independents are a blight upon Irish democracy.

There it is, just a few posts back who were the foul mouthed judgementalists... You should run yourself you know better then the rest of the country.

Yurt2

SlowBlowin wrote: »

There it is, just a few posts back who were the foul mouthed judgementalists... You should run yourself you know better then the rest of the country.

FG Loyalist. One of 'the smartest guys in the room' (tm)

The problem with independents from their point of view is that they get elected at the expense of rocket scientists like Mary Mitchell O'Connor, Michael D'Arcy and Regina Doherty, keeping them from their rightful station marshalling the country with their brilliance.

salmocab

Yurt! wrote: »

FG Loyalist. One of 'the smartest guys in the room' (tm)

The problem with independents from their point of view is that they get elected at the expense of rocket scientists like Mary Mitchell O'Connor, Michael D'Arcy and Regina Doherty, keeping them from their rightful station marshalling the country with their brilliance.

Well there are issues with too many independents/small party candidates being elected meaning we’re not getting a government anytime soon. Some independents can do good work plenty are just anti everything and some do next to nothing. Now there are plenty of useless souls in all the mainstream parties too but we do have a problem at the moment that even if we do get a government we won’t even have a proper opposition because people vote for candidates that are just ineffective and really a waste of time at national level.

Yurt2

salmocab wrote: »

Well there are issues with too many independents/small party candidates being elected meaning we’re not getting a government anytime soon. Some independents can do good work plenty are just anti everything and some do next to nothing. Now there are plenty of useless souls in all the mainstream parties too but we do have a problem at the moment that even if we do get a government we won’t even have a proper opposition because people vote for candidates that are just ineffective and really a waste of time at national level.

Most backbenchers do f-all. Enda propped up the Dail bar for a couple of decades before someone in FG threw a glass of water over him and told him it was his time to be a minister.

The way the whip system is employed and enforced by Irish parties means there is little dissent from the back benches and they are all nodding dogs, unlike Westminster, where backbenchers have a greater degree of independent thought.

Our local government is so feeble and pointless that almost all political power is concentrated in the cabinet. We have one of the most centralised political systems in Europe, they may as well rename the cabinet as the politburo. All you need is the numbers to keep a cabinet in place and the rest of the gobdaws can go to sleep for 5 years if they want. Independents exist and thrive in that context.

SlowBlowin

salmocab wrote: »

Well there are issues with too many independents/small party candidates being elected meaning we’re not getting a government anytime soon. Some independents can do good work plenty are just anti everything and some do next to nothing. Now there are plenty of useless souls in all the mainstream parties too but we do have a problem at the moment that even if we do get a government we won’t even have a proper opposition because people vote for candidates that are just ineffective and really a waste of time at national level.

But is this not a result of democracy ? You give people the right to choose and they choose incorrectly ?

What would you propose as an amendment ?

salmocab

SlowBlowin wrote: »

But is this not a result of democracy ? You give people the right to choose and they choose incorrectly ?

What would you propose as an amendment ?

I don’t propose anything, I’m not suggesting it’s anything other than the result of democracy. The old saying is right we do get the government we deserve. We keep electing the same fools and the country doesn’t get what it needs it gets the small few who get into politics and have the staying power to keep going. Very few of these people are suited to the power for various reasons but so long as we accept politicians not doing what they should then we won’t have decent government or opposition.

SlowBlowin

salmocab wrote: »

I don’t propose anything, I’m not suggesting it’s anything other than the result of democracy. The old saying is right we do get the government we deserve. We keep electing the same fools and the country doesn’t get what it needs it gets the small few who get into politics and have the staying power to keep going. Very few of these people are suited to the power for various reasons but so long as we accept politicians not doing what they should then we won’t have decent government or opposition.

I agree.

People lose faith with the established parties and their behaviour, so vote for an independent local which is a known quantity.

Shefwedfan

SlowBlowin wrote: »

I agree.

People lose faith with the established parties and their behaviour, so vote for an independent local which is a known quantity.

So what is the known quantity part of Healy Rae?

What has he done for the people of Kerry?
Or planning to do for the people of Kerry in next 5 years?

salmocab

SlowBlowin wrote: »

I agree.

People lose faith with the established parties and their behaviour, so vote for an independent local which is a known quantity.

Yes for sure but they are in no way better off for it. They have effectively no voice in the dail, certainly the ones who have no intention of being part of proceedings don’t bring anything. The Paul Murphy’s rant but are ultimately ignored, the HRs get their sound bites but again bring nothing to the table. Until we hold our politicians accountable for their jobs we will end up with the same cycles of poor party before country governments and pointless independents.

SlowBlowin

salmocab wrote: »

Yes for sure but they are in no way better off for it. They have effectively no voice in the dail, certainly the ones who have no intention of being part of proceedings don’t bring anything. The Paul Murphy’s rant but are ultimately ignored, the HRs get their sound bites but again bring nothing to the table. Until we hold our politicians accountable for their jobs we will end up with the same cycles of poor party before country governments and pointless independents.

Are traditional political parties a good thing, are there better democratic models established anywhere ?

Yurt2

salmocab wrote: »

Yes for sure but they are in no way better off for it. They have effectively no voice in the dail, certainly the ones who have no intention of being part of proceedings don’t bring anything. The Paul Murphy’s rant but are ultimately ignored, the HRs get their sound bites but again bring nothing to the table. Until we hold our politicians accountable for their jobs we will end up with the same cycles of poor party before country governments and pointless independents.

Again, most backbenchers, even those within the governing party can do nothing but sit there with their thumb up their ar*se. That's system we've cultivated with the strict whip system and powerless pothole filling local government.

In many ways, they are even more useless than independents, unless they get a sniff of a cabinet seat.

For instance, when's the last time Sean Haughey did anything bar Healy Rae type medical card work? I'll give you a hint, bar a brief stint as a junior minister (who have less power to do anything than you'd think), that's all he's ever done.

salmocab

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Are traditional political parties a good thing, are there better democratic models established anywhere ?

I would say the party system in theory is great, you get a group of people with broadly the same views on things. Unfortunately we have let a small number of parties and politicians put the party in front of beliefs. So long as we vote in those unfit to do the job and unwilling to make the right decisions we will have poor government and opposition.

In the past when he was in opposition I gave Ross a high preference, he was a decent opposition politician able to call out things on the floor, he however once in government became the worst type of independent looking out for his narrow constituency and interests. The boundary’s have since been redrawn but I wouldn’t have given him a vote again after that, amazingly the people of his constituency have seen what he’s like and despite getting lots for the constituency have decided he’s not the right man for the job. If we followed this as a trend we might be in a better place.

salmocab

Yurt! wrote: »

Again, most backbenchers, even those within the governing party can do nothing but sit there with their thumb up their ar*se. That's system we've cultivated with the strict whip system and powerless pothole filling local government.

In many ways, they are even more useless than independents, unless they get a sniff of a cabinet seat.

For instance, when's the last time Sean Haughey did anything bar Healy Rae type medical card work? I'll give you a hint, bar a brief stint as a junior minister (who have less power to do anything than you'd think), that's all he's ever done.

Well thanks for that but I’ve not once argued that backbenchers do anything of use. In fact I’ve argued that the parties aren’t doing what they should.

SlowBlowin

This reads like students discussing "Animal Farm".

I certainly agree with Yurts comments re: the whip system and backbenches, and I am struggling to see where change can come from.

Yurt2

salmocab wrote: »

Well thanks for that but I’ve not once argued that backbenchers do anything of use. In fact I’ve argued that the parties aren’t doing what they should.

Well I think you're making the argument that independents are uniquely useless.

The relatively high level of independents in the Irish system (and this has been noted by political scientists) is actually a function of the severely centralised way power is wielded in our democracy. They are a symptom and not the problem.

I think sadder than independents of this world - who on occasion get big wins for their constituency by holding the balance of power and make noise in the chamber - is the career backbencher in a major party. These people are consigned to a life of constituency work and will likely never contribute anything to national good beyond that.

That's our system, and like so much about life in Ireland, are hostile to it being changed, and worse still, think it can't be changed.

salmocab

SlowBlowin wrote: »

This reads like students discussing "Animal Farm".

I certainly agree with Yurts comments re: the whip system and backbenches, and I am struggling to see where change can come from.

The change will only come when we use our vote to elect the people who actually best represent us, it won’t come from any political party or the independents that stand for either nothing or just on narrow anti something/everything platform. They are the people that the system currently works for.

salmocab

Yurt! wrote: »

Well I think you're making the argument that independents are uniquely useless.

The relatively high level of independents in the Irish system (and this has been noted by political scientists) is actually a function of the severely centralised way power is wielded in our democracy. They are a symptom and not the problem.

I think sadder than independents of this world - who on occasion get big wins for their constituency by holding the balance of power and make noise in the chamber - is the career backbencher in a major party. These people are consigned to a life of constituency work and will likely never contribute anything to national good beyond that.

That's our system, and like so much about life in Ireland, are hostile to it being changed, and worse still, think it can't be changed.

Well you think wrong I’m not arguing that at all, there is a place for independents but they have to work in the system not stand on the sideline or oppose single line items whilst doing nothing much. The whip system here is far too tight I’d agree with that and certainly with your last paragraph.

Shefwedfan

SlowBlowin wrote: »

This reads like students discussing "Animal Farm".

I certainly agree with Yurts comments re: the whip system and backbenches, and I am struggling to see where change can come from.

Stop voting in politicians with zero agenda, zero interest in change and zero interest in helping not only their voters but anyone in Ireland at all, only have interest in lining their pockets

Stop this and it might make some sort of difference

Yurt2

salmocab wrote: »

The change will only come when we use our vote to elect the people who actually best represent us, it won’t come from any political party or the independents that stand for either nothing or just on narrow anti something/everything platform. They are the people that the system currently works for.

That's rather tautological if you don't mind me saying so. We have elections on the regular to churn up those who would 'best represent us' and we get what we get.

The whip system in Ireland and the lack of free votes actually makes the proliferation of independents inevitable. Many of our sitting independents now and in in the past come from the inevitable break with the party (often on narrow issues) because of the imposition of the whip as if the cabinet and party leadership were the Soviet politburo.

In Westminster, the different whip instructions give mean the party pulls the cabinet in all sorts of directions that would be impossible in Ireland, backbenchers are free to have a mind of their own, and dissenting voices aren't frozen out like here.

salmocab

Yurt! wrote: »

That's rather tautological if you don't mind me saying so. We have elections on the regular to churn up those who would 'best represent us' and we get what we get.

The whip system in Ireland and the lack of free votes actually makes the proliferation of independents inevitable. Many of our sitting independents now and in in the past come from the inevitable break with the party (often on narrow issues) because of the imposition of the whip as if the cabinet and party leadership were the Soviet politburo.

In Westminster, the different whip instructions give mean the party pulls the cabinet in all sorts of directions that would be impossible in Ireland, backbenchers are free to have a mind of their own, and dissenting voices aren't frozen out like here.

Don’t think it is tautological we do have elections to choose who would best represent us but we don’t really get them. Personally I want more than ‘we get what we get’ from the people I pay to run the country. I understand why we have so many independents but that’s not standing to us but I freely admit that our current parties don’t do the job as it should be done. So long as we accept this nothing will change.

SlowBlowin

salmocab wrote: »

Don’t think it is tautological we do have elections to choose who would best represent us but we don’t really get them. Personally I want more than ‘we get what we get’ from the people I pay to run the country. I understand why we have so many independents but that’s not standing to us but I freely admit that our current parties don’t do the job as it should be done. So long as we accept this nothing will change.

Given the lack of a viable process to effect party change is voting for an interdependent the best route to bring about reform ? I agree its very fragmented approach but at the moment it seems to me its the only tool in the box.

salmocab

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Given the lack of a viable process to effect party change is voting for an interdependent the best route to bring about reform ? I agree its very fragmented approach but at the moment it seems to me its the only tool in the box.

I don’t see how it brings around change, independent numbers have bring steadily increasing I would think, although the like of pbp aaa or whatever they are called might muddy these waters as they seem to be neither fish nor foul, the parties didn’t seem to be changing how they operate. To be clear here I’m not offering any solutions and I don’t for a minute believe I am beyond that we need to change who and why we vote for people.

Shefwedfan

salmocab wrote: »

I don’t see how it brings around change, independent numbers have bring steadily increasing I would think, although the like of pbp aaa or whatever they are called might muddy these waters as they seem to be neither fish nor foul, the parties didn’t seem to be changing how they operate. To be clear here I’m not offering any solutions and I don’t for a minute believe I am beyond that we need to change who and why we vote for people.

PBP and that lot got in with big numbers for them last election. They don’t very little and a good few of them got dumped

They still brought legislation forward etc

Hence why it baffles me how the rest of country can see politicians not doing their job and they don’t get devoted, Healy Rae do nothing and people actually pay to vote them back in....

SlowBlowin

salmocab wrote: »

I don’t see how it brings around change, independent numbers have bring steadily increasing I would think, although the like of pbp aaa or whatever they are called might muddy these waters as they seem to be neither fish nor foul, the parties didn’t seem to be changing how they operate. To be clear here I’m not offering any solutions and I don’t for a minute believe I am beyond that we need to change who and why we vote for people.

The only way I see it helping is via self reform of the parties as a response to the increasing independent vote. I am of course assuming that they are professional enough to respond and act to a "protest vote".

Rows Grower

It's nice to see reasoned discussion.

SlowBlowin

Rows Grower wrote: »

It's nice to see reasoned discussion.

Yes its quite refreshing, just following one simple rule

Quackster

SlowBlowin wrote: »

By the way, before you accuse me of it, I am not "offended", I was just pointing out the post was incorrect.

If you want reasoned debate, calling a whole county villains will not help.

In fairness, they didn't call the whole county villains, only those of my fellow Kerry people who for whatever inexplicable reason defied all logic and voted for these most delightful creatures.

Quackster

So the political system is broken.

That still doesn't explain why thousands of, presumably, compos mentis individuals willingly choose to vote for a bunch of absolute leeches.

John_Rambo

Rows Grower wrote: »

It's nice to see reasoned discussion.

You should try and take part in one some day.

SlowBlowin

Quackster wrote: »

So the political system is broken.

That still doesn't explain why thousands of, presumably, compos mentis individuals willingly choose to vote for a bunch of absolute leeches.

Maybe, as I was saying earlier, because they are so disillusioned with the established political parties, they choose someone local.

Atlantic Dawn

Would love to hear their thoughts on Covid-19 and their solutions.

Muahahaha

Yurt! wrote: »

Well I think you're making the argument that independents are uniquely useless.

The relatively high level of independents in the Irish system (and this has been noted by political scientists) is actually a function of the severely centralised way power is wielded in our democracy. They are a symptom and not the problem.

Yep, Ive seen studies saying that Ireland is literally the most centralised political system in the EU. County Councillors have more or less no power here whereas in other countries their equivalents would have power over local schools, policing, hospitals, infrastructure and transport. Councils in other countries raise their funding locally through local property taxes which stay in the area and get spent in the area. Here they go into a central fund controlled by a centralised government and its basically political horse trading over what county council gets what, irrespective of how much had been paid in. The main thing is that the Cabinet hold all the funding centrally and can spend it in such a way that it gives the government party TDs a good chance of re-election.

I think sadder than independents of this world - who on occasion get big wins for their constituency by holding the balance of power and make noise in the chamber - is the career backbencher in a major party. These people are consigned to a life of constituency work and will likely never contribute anything to national good beyond that.

That's our system, and like so much about life in Ireland, are hostile to it being changed, and worse still, think it can't be changed.

Yeah it is pretty sad that our system creates a cohort of TDs who literally show up to the parliament Tuesday to Thursday to push buttons as instructed by a Chief Whip. Even if they genuinely disagree with policy they are forced to vote for it or face the consequences. They dont get to debate or the opportunity to even talk, in the Dail or in the media or otherwise. The whip system prevents them from holding Cabinet decisions to account in public so they become relegated to the role of miniature flag wavers on the backbenches for the party . They remain silent in the Dail for decades, they are prevented from contributing on issues of national importance and are basically a waste of space and taxpayers money.

Contrast that to the UK where the MPs of the governing party question (shock, horror!) their own party leader every Wednesday at 12pm in the Commons and then again later on TV and to the print media. Parties over there tend to have two or three factions and the Prime Minister of the day isnt just held to account by the opposition, MPs in his own party will also be fulfilling this role. The transparency and political accountability they have is a world apart compared to what we have here.Leaders questions in the Commons consists of hundreds of MPs holding the Cabinet to account, here you would be lucky if there are more than 10 TDs in the chamber, largely because its a pointless exercise structured in such a way as to avoid political accountability altogether.

Shefwedfan

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Maybe, as I was saying earlier, because they are so disillusioned with the established political parties, they choose someone local.

That would account for one years voting, like example of PBP. They got in, done nothing and majority got kicked out

The Healy Rae have done nothing for a few votes now and still get in, that’s the bit people are questioning and yet to receive any answer

SlowBlowin

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yep, Ive seen studies saying that Ireland is literally the most centralised political system in the EU.

Yeah it is pretty sad that our system creates a cohort of TDs who literally show up to the parliament Tuesday to Thursday to push buttons as instructed by a Chief Whip. Even if they genuinely disagree with policy they are forced to vote for it or face the consequences. They dont get to debate or the opportunity to even talk, in the Dail or in the media or otherwise. The whip system prevents them from holding Cabinet decisions to account in public so they become relegated to the role of miniature flag wavers on the backbenches for the party .

Is there scope for a new party to emerge from current batch of interdependents, is there any common ground or will the party system continue to fragment ?

Rows Grower

Quackster wrote: »

So the political system is broken.

That still doesn't explain why thousands of, presumably, compos mentis individuals willingly choose to vote for a bunch of absolute leeches.

I don't get why you think you know more about the Healy Raes than the tens of thousands of Kerry people who consistently vote for them.

You're a regular contributor to this thread but apart from the personal attacks on the integrity of the Healy Raes you offer nothing else. I asked you before who you think is a better alternative to vote for and you declined to answer.

The truth is it's very easy to assume a negative stance on any issue when you are too weak or afraid of honest debate to nail your own colours to the mast.

Rows Grower

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Is there scope for a new party to emerge from current batch of interdependents, is there any common ground or will the party system continue to fragment ?

I'm not sure that there is a place for a party made up of various independents. I think the essence of successful independents is they are willing to fight and be a voice at national level for nothing but local issues. If they were to officially band together they might lose that unique aspect that counts for a lot of votes.

The Healy Raes have inspired a lot of independent candidates, and their actions and ethos has inspired people nationwide to vote for their own independent candidates. Some people might not admit it but it is true, anytime I travel around Ireland and chat with locals one of the most common comments I get after I tell them where I'm from is "Oh you're in Healy Rae country, we could do with a TD like them around here".

There's an old saying that all politics is local and it's very true. Look at Coveney and Martin barely scraping in on the fifth and sixth count for evidence.

Young people are becoming more politically aware than previous generations, this habit of voting for who your parents voted for is losing traction and it will affect the two previously biggest parties the most in elections to come.

If they fail to form a government in the next few weeks and continue to childishly try to smear Sinn Fein at every opportunity they will pay an even bigger price at the next election when Sinn Fein will run more candidates and win more seats.

Shefwedfan

What is the Healy Rae ethos?

SlowBlowin

Rows Grower wrote: »

I'm not sure that there is a place for a party made up of various independents. I think the essence of successful independents is they are willing to fight and be a voice at national level for nothing but local issues. If they were to officially band together they might lose that unique aspect that counts for a lot of votes.

The Healy Raes have inspired a lot of independent candidates, and their actions and ethos has inspired people nationwide to vote for their own independent candidates. Some people might not admit it but it is true, anytime I travel around Ireland and chat with locals one of the most common comments I get after I tell them where I'm from is "Oh you're in Healy Rae country, we could do with a TD like them around here".

There's an old saying that all politics is local and it's very true. Look at Coveney and Martin barely scraping in on the fifth and sixth count for evidence.

Young people are becoming more politically aware than previous generations, this habit of voting for who your parents voted for is losing traction and it will affect the two previously biggest parties the most in elections to come.

If they fail to form a government in the next few weeks and continue to childishly try to smear Sinn Fein at every opportunity they will pay an even bigger price at the next election when Sinn Fein will run more candidates and win more seats.

I pretty much agree.

I do think there there might be a benefit to some sort on interdependent alliance, and where common ground on national matters between multiple independents (and their constituents) exists, it should be voiced collectively to add volume.

TaurenDruid

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What is the Healy Rae ethos?

"The family(*) comes first.

Get re-elected. Get more of us blooded on the council so we can keep the dynasty going.

Then do everything we can to profit from that. Give people what they've already paid for with their own money - but claim the credit. Get the council contracts.

Use the Dáil where we can to block or delay anything that might interfere with profit - things like the reduced drink driving limits."

(*) The Healy-Rae extended family, specifically.

Rows Grower

SlowBlowin wrote: »

I pretty much agree.

I do think there there might be a benefit to some sort on interdependent alliance, and where common ground on national matters between multiple independents (and their constituents) exists, it should be voiced collectively to add volume.

Yes definitely an alliance would work for all independents and the people who voted for them.

Quackster

Rows Grower wrote: »

I don't get why you think you know more about the Healy Raes than the tens of thousands of Kerry people who consistently vote for them.

You're a regular contributor to this thread but apart from the personal attacks on the integrity of the Healy Raes you offer nothing else. I asked you before who you think is a better alternative to vote for and you declined to answer.

The truth is it's very easy to assume a negative stance on any issue when you are too weak or afraid of honest debate to nail your own colours to the mast.

I know only what everybody else knows about them from facts in the public domain, unless there's something I'm missing..?? And what I do know would lead me to believe that, yes, they lack integrity.

I've no strong affiliation for any other particular candidate who ran in the election and I am not aware of any information that would lead me to question the integrities of the candidates that stood for FF, FG, SF and GP.

Rows Grower

Quackster wrote: »

I know only what everybody else knows about them from facts in the public domain, unless there's something I'm missing..?? And what I do know would lead me to believe that, yes, they lack integrity.

I've no strong affiliation for any other particular candidate who ran in the election and I am not aware of any information that would lead me to question the integrities of the candidates that stood for FF, FG, SF and GP.

Logic would dictate that there is a lot you are missing.

SlowBlowin

Rows Grower wrote: »

Logic would dictate that there is a lot you are missing.

To be fair this is a normal human trait.

If we are honest with ourselves, how often have we heard about someone, formed a poor opinion, then when we have met them and got to know them totally changed our minds ? This has happened to me many times in my life, moving to a new area, someone gives me a bad overview of someone, I meet them and the totally opposite..

I don't see why this doesn't apply to TDs, probably more so, we read click bait journalism, form an opinion, but unless we meet them we don't really know.

Seems that the people who meet MHR generally like MHR, the rest generally dont.

Rows Grower

SlowBlowin wrote: »

To be fair this is a normal human trait.

If we are honest with ourselves, how often have we heard about someone, formed a poor opinion, then when we have met them and got to know them totally changed our minds ? This has happened to me many times in my life, moving to a new area, someone gives me a bad overview of someone, I meet them and the totally opposite..

I don't see why this doesn't apply to TDs, probably more so, we read click bait journalism, form an opinion, but unless we meet them we don't really know.

Seems that the people who meet MHR generally like MHR, the rest generally dont.

I wouldn't agree that it's a normal human trait to be honest, but then again I'm probably more open minded and assertive in real life than I am on here.

In real life I'd never let anyone get away with warning me about someone they don't like before I have actually met the person myself. I'd usually say they might have been having an off day that time, or shur who knows what was going on in their life at that particular time or look shur we all make mistakes.

Now if I meet the person and do find them to be as the person described then I'd make it my business to get back to them and remind them of the warning they gave me and tell them how right they were. I'd also add that I had to find out for myself, and I never let anyone else's experience influence my opinion of someone before I'd met them.

I do agree that the low standard of click bait journalism does sway the opinion of a lot of people but what surprises me is how some seemingly intelligent people can ignore the bare faced facts in front of them and cast insults at tens of thousands of Kerry people because of what can only be a superiority complex.

It's easy to be a keyboard warrior or a hurler on the ditch on boards.ie and even easier on other websites for that matter, but in my opinion the important thing is to not let these people get away with it without at least calling them out and letting them be aware they are not as smart as they think they are and they are not getting away with it scott free.

I totally agree with you that anyone who hasn't met MHR and had a conversation with him is in no position to judge him and I know dozens upon dozens of people who have met him maybe only once and changed their previous negative opinion of him.

What amazes me most about him is his ability to remember people he has only met once before, not only their names but the casual conversation they previously had.

If the conversation was about some concern the person had in relation to anything he could possibly help with there is always a follow up letter or phone call usually with a positive result and often the people are taken totally by surprise thinking the conversation was casual and he didn't take notes.

I personally and a lot of people I know were never once given false hope from him or any of the family on any issue enquired about. He and his family genuinely like to help people and that's good enough for me.

TaurenDruid

Rows Grower wrote: »

I totally agree with you that anyone who hasn't met MHR and had a conversation with him is in no position to judge him and I know dozens upon dozens of people who have met him maybe only once and changed their previous negative opinion of him.

Bollocks. We can judge him on what's on the public record, his voting record, his statements to the media, his SIPO returns, and so on.

Nobody he's saying he's not personable, probably great craic altogether and a great friend to his friends and family. None of that excuses anything else, though.

What amazes me most about him is his ability to remember people he has only met once before, not only their names but the casual conversation they previously had.

That's an amazing talent and I've come across it in a few politicians. I'd a casual conversation with one that I'd never met before at an event, and two hours later as he was leaving, and after he'd spoken to literally a couple of hundred other people, he shook my hand, remembered my name, and brought up something we'd been talking about. Wish I had that skill!

Rows Grower

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Bollocks. We can judge him on what's on the public record, his voting record, his statements to the media, his SIPO returns, and so on.

Nobody he's saying he's not personable, probably great craic altogether and a great friend to his friends and family. None of that excuses anything else, though.



That's an amazing talent and I've come across it in a few politicians. I'd a casual conversation with one that I'd never met before at an event, and two hours later as he was leaving, and after he'd spoken to literally a couple of hundred other people, he shook my hand, remembered my name, and brought up something we'd been talking about. Wish I had that skill!

I'm talking about weeks, maybe months later.

Shefwedfan

Rows Grower wrote: »

What amazes me most about him is his ability to remember people he has only met once before, not only their names but the casual conversation they previously had.

Thats the trait that amazes you?


Any county you go to is full of people who have lived their entire life in the place and will know every single person in the area, children, parents etc and remember names.

Thelonious Monk

I have met both in the past and used to deal with them on the phone a lot. Very polite and nice I have to say, especially compared to some of their Oireachtas colleagues, although there seemed to be so many of them and they all sounded the same in their constituency office.
It doesn't take away from the fact that they seem to want to promote things that are bad for the country and heading in the wrong direction, their politics are bad news.

Quackster

Rows Grower wrote: »

Logic would dictate that there is a lot you are missing.

Well if you are party to information not in the public domain that would change all of our perceptions of the Healy Rae clan, then please fill us in!!

Rows Grower

Quackster wrote: »

Well if you are party to information not in the public domain that would change all of our perceptions of the Healy Rae clan, then please fill us in!!

Just ask anyone you know from Kerry that voted in the last election.

It shouldn't take long as one in three people voted Healy Rae number 1.