The Healy Raes

SlowBlowin

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

We both know that what I am saying is true.

Do I believe what you are saying as well, or is it just Rows ?

You must win the lottery every week !

MayoAreMagic

SlowBlowin wrote: »

I think the only way to achieve your ideals is to not allow TDs to be involved in any business/organisation that can financially benefit from government policy.

Well look, if a td is running a b&b from the old family home or even if he owns a pub or restaurant, and he manages to boost tourism etc, that isnt the kind of thing Im talking about. That is just a knock on effect and there isnt anything massively wrong there.

But if a guy is running companies that seem to get every contract going, on jobs that he himself directs to the area - disingenuously or otherwise - then that is obviously a potential abuse of his or her position. I dont think it is unreasonable that anyone in a position of directing works to an area, cant be in a position to direct that work to himself. It is common sense. Or do you believe that turkeys will in fact vote for Christmas?

Rows Grower

Donald Trump wrote: »

Don't worry. I wasn't expecting everyone to understand it. You can read a little bit here if you want.


The example on that page of doping in sport is one that people might be able to relate to a little easier. The idea for that one is that if doping is available in sport, then an athlete trying to gain an advantage will take the drug. But then more and more have to take it in order to try to compete with the dopers. It eventually ends up that all competitors need to take it. Therefore there is no longer any advantage to any competitor....but they are now all taking drugs that could harm them.


Parish-pump politics is the same. Everyone wants their own local fella to look after them. Then because some people are getting skipped up the queue, everyone else has to go to their local fella. But in reality, once everyone is doing it then there is no advantage anymore. You are just now left with a worse system.

You really do live up to your name, but I'm sure it all makes sense in your own mind.

Rows Grower

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Ah here, ah cmere, drame queen, would you go away, go and report it zzzzzzz
Spare us all that tired old stuff. If that is all you have to add then you have nothing to add.
We both know that what I am saying is true.

That's the second time today you've tried to claim that we both think the same about some opinion you have somehow formulated in your own head.

I know there's plenty room in there and you have a fertile imagination, but I'm fairly sure we don't have anything in common.

Shefwedfan

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Can you watch this then continue with your argument.

https://www.facebook.com/MHealyRaeTD/videos/279650666630703/

https://www2.hse.ie/services/cross-border-directive/about-the-cross-border-directive.html

This is a program from the HSE, if a group need a bus your local councillor should be able to arrange.

Your local TD should be part of a government trying to resolve the issue, working with a party on resolving the HSE. Like FF, FG, Labour, SF etc etc are trying to do.

I ask again. For all the years the Healy Rae are in government what have they done to resolve the issue in the HSE?

What have they done to resolve anything at a national level?

Rows Grower

Shefwedfan wrote: »

https://www2.hse.ie/services/cross-border-directive/about-the-cross-border-directive.html

This is a program from the HSE, if a group need a bus your local councillor should be able to arrange.

Your local TD should be part of a government trying to resolve the issue, working with a party on resolving the HSE. Like FF, FG, Labour, SF etc etc are trying to do.

I ask again. For all the years the Healy Rae are in government what have they done to resolve the issue in the HSE?

What have they done to resolve anything at a national level?

He fixed the road.

SlowBlowin

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well look, if a td is running a b&b from the old family home or even if he owns a pub or restaurant, and he manages to boost tourism etc, that isnt the kind of thing Im talking about. That is just a knock on effect and there isnt anything massively wrong there.

But if a guy is running companies that seem to get every contract going, on jobs that he himself directs to the area - disingenuously or otherwise - then that is obviously a potential abuse of his or her position. I dont think it is unreasonable that anyone in a position of directing works to an area, cant be in a position to direct that work to himself. It is common sense. Or do you believe that turkeys will in fact vote for Christmas?

I do understand the point you are making, but from the other side of the coin is that the roads get repaired by a local firm, who do a good job, local men are employed and it costs less than bringing in an out of county company. If the company runs well then after paying staff, and taxes, they make a profit, which after further tax is paid MHR gets a slice of. Its all in the open, less than ideal perhaps, but not worthy of the level of criticism it attracts.

Reading the REGISTER OF INTERESTS OF MEMBERS PDF good slice of political talent would be lost if your plan was implemented.

SlowBlowin

Donald Trump wrote: »

Which video? The one about Michael Healy Rae claiming that he is organising for people to go up the North for operations?


That is a national scheme. It is not something that he is doing off his own bat. He might like the local yokels to think he is the one doing it and be eternally grateful to him for "giving" them something that is theirs by right anyway.



My post was in response to someone more or less saying how they'd be glad that MHR was representing them as long as he was going to get them bumped up a list (at the expense of others). If everyone follows that same principle, then you are left with an overall solution which is not optimum for everyone, and possibly not even optimum for anyone.

The Prisoner's Dilemma is based on complete separation with no communication.

The video shows MHR communicating with government on the matter, therefore the analogy to the Prisoner's Dilemma is not valid in this case.

TaurenDruid

SlowBlowin wrote: »

What a load of pedantic bollox.

If you complain about something is it not logical to make reference to the actual data that is causing the issue ?

If your mum bought a new Nissan car and the MPG was really bad, would you go in the dealership and say "I think Nissan should improve the MPG of their cars" or would you say "My mum bought a car from you and its getting really bad MPG, whats going on" ?

You dont seem to grasp that by drawing attention to real world cases, in bulk, in front of cameras, MHR is making more of a point than asking a simple question, not backed up by real information.

Thats fine, thats just the way you think, but I would always make a point backed up by real world data, it has more impact and relevance.

I think it bizarre that people criticise MHR for asking the question and quoting the actual case. Your preferred route would be to generalise the question and not quote specifics ??? How is that better ???

That was a long response to point out that you don't actually watch Dáil TV or have much of a clue what goes in Leinster House.

TaurenDruid

SlowBlowin wrote: »

If you have watched the video can you comment ?

Remember your stance in this argument is that MHR does not ask questions about the performance of the National Health service.

My stance is that the MHRs and DHRs of this world think it's a good thing for them to intervene in the administration of the health system, so their preferred clients get treatment ahead of other equally deserving people, and I don't think it's a good thing.

ohnonotgmail

TaurenDruid wrote: »

My stance is that the MHRs and DHRs of this world think it's a good thing for them to intervene in the administration of the health system, so their preferred clients get treatment ahead of other equally deserving people, and I don't think it's a good thing.

exactly. The queue for procedures should be based on medical need not who has the cutest hoor for a TD.

Donald Trump

SlowBlowin wrote: »

The Prisoner's Dilemma is based on complete separation with no communication.

The video shows MHR communicating with government on the matter, therefore the analogy to the Prisoner's Dilemma is not valid in this case.

As I said, I was not responding to the video. I was responding to the general sense of people supporting a system which allows them to immediately gain a competitive edge with no concern for the actual best way to do things.



Prisoners dilemma needs communication, co-operation and trust to actually obtain the optimum outcome btw.

SlowBlowin

TaurenDruid wrote: »

My stance is that the MHRs and DHRs of this world think it's a good thing for them to intervene in the administration of the health system, so their preferred clients get treatment ahead of other equally deserving people, and I don't think it's a good thing.

OK, so you now have no issue with the health buses he lays on, as you said:

"That is a national scheme. It is not something that he is doing off his own bat. He might like the local yokels to think he is the one doing it and be eternally grateful to him for "giving" them something that is theirs by right anyway."

The issue you have is him "Bumping up" ?

As far as I know this "Bumping up" is a figment of the anti MHR mob.

What happens :

You feel that you mums waiting to long for her operation. You go to your TD (MHR) for help (its a national service), if he agrees its an unreasonable delay, he asks the Health minister/service if he is aware of the delays in this case.

Thats it. What often happens is the operation comes though, sometimes nothing happens and the delay continues.

The government definition of the role of a TD includes the following paragraph:

"As your local representative, a TD can ask questions in the Dáil or raise issues that are important to you or your local area. Most TDs have constituency clinics, where you can meet them and discuss issues that might then be raised in the Dáil or in PQs".

If you have a problem with this its down to your understanding of the role of a TD, or maybe you have experienced a TD who was not as helpful as MHR.

SlowBlowin

Donald Trump wrote: »

As I said, I was not responding to the video. I was responding to the general sense of people supporting a system which allows them to immediately gain a competitive edge with no concern for the actual best way to do things.



Prisoners dilemma needs communication, co-operation and trust to actually obtain the optimum outcome btw.

I thought the prisoners dilemma refereed to a situation where the optimum outcome was not achieved because of a lack of communication ?

TaurenDruid

SlowBlowin wrote: »

OK, so you now have no issue with the health buses he lays on, as you said:

"That is a national scheme. It is not something that he is doing off his own bat. He might like the local yokels to think he is the one doing it and be eternally grateful to him for "giving" them something that is theirs by right anyway."

The issue you have is him "Bumping up" ?

As far as I know this "Bumping up" is a figment of the anti MHR mob.

What happens :

You feel that you mums waiting to long for her operation. You go to your TD (MHR) for help (its a national service), if he agrees its an unreasonable delay, he asks the Health minister/service if he is aware of the delays in this case.

Thats it. What often happens is the operation comes though, sometimes nothing happens and the delay continues.

The government definition of the role of a TD includes the following paragraph:

"As your local representative, a TD can ask questions in the Dáil or raise issues that are important to you or your local area. Most TDs have constituency clinics, where you can meet them and discuss issues that might then be raised in the Dáil or in PQs".

If you have a problem with this its down to your understanding of the role of a TD, or maybe you have experienced a TD who was not as helpful as MHR.

I can have more than one problem with the HRs...

"if he agrees its an unreasonable delay" HAHAHA. "No, Bridie, you're only waiting six months, sure the average wait is a year, I'll not do anything!" HAHAHA. Yeah, he doesn't do that. He puts in a PQ or makes his phonecalls for everyone.

And it is not the job of a TD to organise a bus service.

Donald Trump

SlowBlowin wrote: »

I thought the prisoners dilemma refereed to a situation where the optimum outcome was not achieved because of a lack of communication ?

No, you need communication AND co-operation AND trust.


If you tell me that you will choose the one that can give the overall optimum then I can tell you that I will as well but I can be lying.

Or I can just refuse to co-operate with you and insist on the option that will be best for me regardless of your choice.

I cannot reach the best case scenario for me based on only my decisions. I need to depend on the other person's too. Given that, I will rationally choose the outcome that is best for me based on what I can control. We just both end up worse off than if we had coordinated and co-operated. But I am guaranteed to end up better off than if I had trusted the other person and they hadn't held up their end. And if they had held up their end, I'm kinda fucking them over by not holding up my end, but I then have the actual best outcome from a purely selfish perspective.

lalababa

The HRs have been probably the best
independent
TDs for their constituents for a number of years. Getting them what their entitled to/arguing their cases with mitigating circumstances. I have 1st hand and 2nd experience of them working wonders when dealing with civil service. Kicking up a fuss in the departments and if needed in the Dail.
However, given that they are independent and have Kerry more or less sown up. What is in it for the big parties to improve/keep status quo of services and investments in Kerry.
Nothing... Afaik. If HRs are not in a government deal they are severley weakened. I think people are copping on to this. For instance both the Garda and ambulance services are poor in Kerry.
The only saving grace for the future of the HRs is the shift away from the big two parties which will lead to more and more tri-party coalitions or/and almost national government s.

Shefwedfan

lalababa wrote: »

The HRs have been probably the best
independent
TDs for their constituents for a number of years. Getting them what their entitled to/arguing their cases with mitigating circumstances. I have 1st hand and 2nd experience of them working wonders when dealing with civil service. Kicking up a fuss in the departments and if needed in the Dail.
However, given that they are independent and have Kerry more or less sown up. What is in it for the big parties to improve/keep status quo of services and investments in Kerry.
Nothing... Afaik. If HRs are not in a government deal they are severley weakened. I think people are copping on to this. For instance both the Garda and ambulance services are poor in Kerry.
The only saving grace for the future of the HRs is the shift away from the big two parties which will lead to more and more tri-party coalitions or/and almost national government s.

What companies are moving to Kerry? Which big US companies are putting offices down in Kerry?

The big company in Kerry is Fexco who have nothing to do with Healy Raes. They go on about the big gas bomb they wanted to be built in Kerry but that was a disgrace that anyone would consider that a good proposal

I asked at time of election what jobs they brought and it was stoney silence, would expect the same now. If the Kerry people are happy with such poor performance then let them off, let’s the rest of the country take their share....

c.p.w.g.w

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What companies are moving to Kerry? Which big US companies are putting offices down in Kerry?

The big company in Kerry is Fexco who have nothing to do with Healy Raes. They go on about the big gas bomb they wanted to be built in Kerry but that was a disgrace that anyone would consider that a good proposal

I asked at time of election what jobs they brought and it was stoney silence, would expect the same now. If the Kerry people are happy with such poor performance then let them off, let’s the rest of the country take their share....

Its weird, the place my misses works(In Clare) has 17 lads on her shift travelling from Kerry for work...I just find it absolutely bizarre 244km round trip daily (3.5hrs maybe)

Rows Grower

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What companies are moving to Kerry? Which big US companies are putting offices down in Kerry?

The big company in Kerry is Fexco who have nothing to do with Healy Raes. They go on about the big gas bomb they wanted to be built in Kerry but that was a disgrace that anyone would consider that a good proposal

I asked at time of election what jobs they brought and it was stoney silence, would expect the same now. If the Kerry people are happy with such poor performance then let them off, let’s the rest of the country take their share....

They obviously are, look at the amount of votes they get.

SlowBlowin

TaurenDruid wrote: »

I can have more than one problem with the HRs...

"if he agrees its an unreasonable delay" HAHAHA. "No, Bridie, you're only waiting six months, sure the average wait is a year, I'll not do anything!" HAHAHA. Yeah, he doesn't do that. He puts in a PQ or makes his phonecalls for everyone.

And it is not the job of a TD to organise a bus service.

How do you know how it works ? I only know what I am saying by experience, what about you ?

Where does it say its not the TDs job, care to point me to the info so are so proud to quote ?

Coillte_Bhoy

Rows Grower wrote: »

All politics is local.

That's something that Mehall and Leo learned at the last election when they barely scraped in on the 5th and 6th count.

Not this nonsense again, they did not 'barely scrape in', their seats were never ever in doubt, they were both comfortably elected

Rows Grower

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Not this nonsense again, they did not 'barely scrape in', their seats were never ever in doubt, they were both comfortably elected

They both got the biggest kick up in the hole that any politician ever got at a General Election in Ireland and their still not over it, so don't be trying to cod yourself with your comfortably elected.

Edgware

Rows Grower wrote: »

They both got the biggest kick up in the hole that any politician ever got at a General Election in Ireland and their still not over it, so don't be trying to cod yourself with your comfortably elected.

Such exaggeration. Definetely related to the Kerry bogmen

Bellview

I see Healy Rae took a misfortune to court for using awful bad language.. based on a Garda advice..will he name the Garda.. and Rae won ..Your man must have asked him how was the planning application going for a pub in tralee..

I have seen same man spit enough bad language when things not going his way .. so ironic that he got a man charged for the same

goose2005

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

exactly. The queue for procedures should be based on medical need not who has the cutest hoor for a TD.

I''d be surprised if they have any impact. They just take credit for anything good that happens, and anything bad that happens is evidence for the need for a strong voice for Kerry in the Dáil

goose2005

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What companies are moving to Kerry? Which big US companies are putting offices down in Kerry?

The big company in Kerry is Fexco who have nothing to do with Healy Raes. They go on about the big gas bomb they wanted to be built in Kerry but that was a disgrace that anyone would consider that a good proposal

I asked at time of election what jobs they brought and it was stoney silence, would expect the same now. If the Kerry people are happy with such poor performance then let them off, let’s the rest of the country take their share....

University Hospital Kerry also performs poorly in league tables, and the roads and rail are not good either.

liosnagceann75

Bellview wrote: »

I see Healy Rae took a misfortune to court for using awful bad language.. based on a Garda advice..will he name the Garda.. and Rae won ..Your man must have asked him how was the planning application going for a pub in tralee..

I have seen same man spit enough bad language when things not going his way .. so ironic that he got a man charged for the same

You can bet your bottom dollar Healy Rae was on the bus lane. Wouldn't have been the first time for him either.

When are we going to get the outcome of Gsocs investigation into election fraud in the last local elections?

Hangdogroad

Saw MHR carrying on a not very flattering manner in Killarney years ago.

liosnagceann75

At last years All Ireland football final (drawn match) a guy sitting behind me threatened to put a bullet in my head. At half time he apologised for the threat which I didn't accept. It never occurred to me to contact a steward or guard and have him brought to court. Michael Healy Rae most certainly would have for the publicity alone

Shefwedfan

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

At last years All Ireland football final (drawn match) a guy sitting behind me threatened to put a bullet in my head. At half time he apologised for the threat which I didn't accept. It never occurred to me to contact a steward or guard and have him brought to court. Michael Healy Rae most certainly would have for the publicity alone

You had 3 people who said that was never said, you had Healy Rae who said it was.



With no other evidence the judge ruled in favour of the Healy Rae. Just explains the current Irish legal system. A f**king shambles

Bellview

Bellview wrote: »

I see Healy Rae took a misfortune to court for using awful bad language.. based on a Garda advice..will he name the Garda.. and Rae won ..Your man must have asked him how was the planning application going for a pub in tralee..

I have seen same man spit enough bad language when things not going his way .. so ironic that he got a man charged for the same

Only goes to show how brittle the chancer is. You're a public representative, grow a skin. Sticks and stones. Looks a right eejit dragging a few words spoken in anger to the courts.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Only goes to show how brittle the chancer is. You're a public representative, grow a skin. Sticks and stones. Looks a right eejit dragging a few words spoken in anger to the courts.

Sitting in car
Someone makes signal to wind down window
Wind it down and they shout
Wind back up window and drive on


^^^
That is what normal person would do


We have to remember this is the person who has a couple of thugs as sons who beat up a tourist.



Like father like son

expectationlost

heres the article https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/man-threatened-to-shoot-td-michael-healy-rae-court-told-1012704.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter guy threatened to put a bullet in his head and was let off with a donation to a charity..... incredible

Shefwedfan

expectationlost wrote: »

heres the article https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/man-threatened-to-shoot-td-michael-healy-rae-court-told-1012704.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter guy threatened to put a bullet in his head and was let off with a donation to a charity..... incredible

His sons beat up a tourist over chips and got nothing but a suspended sentance. Not a penny to charity. Lied the entire time of the court case.

This was after loads of people picked them out, had CCTV evidence and the Judge told them they lied

It was one man v 3 people, no other witnesses and he got a bigger sentence than the Healy Raes. SO work that one out

Who could thrust the word of a Healy Rae? Judge should have fired it out the door

Bellview

Hangdogroad wrote: »

Saw MHR carrying on a not very flattering manner in Killarney years ago.

also witnessed in Tralee in front of a premises that he has failed to get planning in twice (from an bord pleanla).. never saw such a fit of temper and stamping of the footpath.. any 3 year old would be proud of the same display...

Bellview

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You had 3 people who said that was never said, you had Healy Rae who said it was.



With no other evidence the judge ruled in favour of the Healy Rae. Just explains the current Irish legal system. A f**king shambles

disgraceful & ironic as Jackie the boxer claiming the garda are leaking details on him when his fist went astray after hunting a lad down in Kenmare

judge appears to be a bit soft here ... but a judge is never wrong

Coillte_Bhoy

Rows Grower wrote: »

They both got the biggest kick up in the hole that any politician ever got at a General Election in Ireland and their still not over it, so don't be trying to cod yourself with your comfortably elected.

Im not codding myself mate, unlike you i know how our electoral system works Martin's FPV dropped just over 300, while Varadkar's went up by a couple of hundered, so if thats a kick in the hole :rolleyes:

Rows Grower

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Im not codding myself mate, unlike you i know how our electoral system works Martin's FPV dropped just over 300, while Varadkar's went up by a couple of hundered, so if thats a kick in the hole :rolleyes:

You are codding no one only yourself bhoy.

If you knew so much about how the electoral system works you would realise that the metaphorical kick up the hole to the two of them was delivered by Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire who sailed through on the first count and increased his FPV by over 7,500 votes.

Can't see the wood for the trees?

Salvadoor

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Im not codding myself mate, unlike you i know how our electoral system works Martin's FPV dropped just over 300, while Varadkar's went up by a couple of hundered, so if thats a kick in the hole :rolleyes:

Rows Grower wrote: »

You are codding no one only yourself bhoy.

If you knew so much about how the electoral system works you would realise that the metaphorical kick up the hole to the two of them was delivered by Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire who sailed through on the first count and increased his FPV by over 7,500 votes.

Can't see the wood for the trees?

How about the 2 of ye fcuk off to the respective SF/IRA & FF & FG threads instead of polluting the Healy Rae thread

spoonerhead

Danny Healy-Ray minster for transport, for the crack sure.

I actually really like the two lads from a Dublin point of view. We’ve never had anyone from my constituency who delivers so much for the community. Living in the People’s republic of Dublin south central, with 3/4 left leaning seats you’d think we’d get someone in with a bit of charisma rather than Joan Collins and Bríd Smith! Both who go forward every few years with a different socialist party name on their background and talk a good fight without actually doing anything.

Rows Grower

Salvadoor wrote: »

How about the 2 of ye fcuk off to the respective SF/IRA & FF & FG threads instead of polluting the Healy Rae thread

Calm down lad, deep breaths.

You're not here a wet week.

Edgware

Rows Grower wrote: »

You are codding no one only yourself bhoy.

If you knew so much about how the electoral system works you would realise that the metaphorical kick up the hole to the two of them was delivered by Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire who sailed through on the first count and increased his FPV by over 7,500 votes.

Can't see the wood for the trees?

If O Laoghaire is so great where is the second seat?

Rows Grower

Edgware wrote: »

If O Laoghaire is so great where is the second seat?

He's only got the one arse.

Bellview

did the appeal get heard for the young healy rae's yet or did covid pospone the appeal

garrettod

Cute Hoers, seem to have Kerry completely sown up via their extended family...

However, that said, the two H-Rs are doing more for Kerry then my 5 TDs have done for Dublin North Central, (and that stands over the previous 5 year term, when 2 of the 5 TDs were Ministers sitting at the Big Table in the Dail). So, if a H-R relocates to Dublin and they are in my constituency, I'll vote for them....

SlowBlowin

garrettod wrote: »

Cute Hoers, seem to have Kerry completely sown up via their extended family...

However, that said, the two H-Rs are doing more for Kerry then my 5 TDs have done for Dublin North Central, (and that stands over the previous 5 year term, when 2 of the 5 TDs were Ministers sitting at the Big Table in the Dail). So, if a H-R relocates to Dublin and they are in my constituency, I'll vote for them....

A refreshingly honest post for this thread....

Superfoods

garrettod wrote: »

Cute Hoers, seem to have Kerry completely sown up via their extended family...

However, that said, the two H-Rs are doing more for Kerry then my 5 TDs have done for Dublin North Central, (and that stands over the previous 5 year term, when 2 of the 5 TDs were Ministers sitting at the Big Table in the Dail). So, if a H-R relocates to Dublin and they are in my constituency, I'll vote for them....

What have they done in Kerry that would make you vote for them out of interest?

TaurenDruid

garrettod wrote: »

Cute Hoers, seem to have Kerry completely sown up via their extended family...

However, that said, the two H-Rs are doing more for Kerry then my 5 TDs have done for Dublin North Central, (and that stands over the previous 5 year term, when 2 of the 5 TDs were Ministers sitting at the Big Table in the Dail). So, if a H-R relocates to Dublin and they are in my constituency, I'll vote for them....

Imagine TDs working for the good of the country as a whole, rather than for the good of their own fiefdoms. Imagine what could be achieved then!

Water John

Has Danny opened the pub with grub being brought in?