Dublin marathon to sell out in "few days"

benjamin d

If they ever do the College Green Plaza (lol) finishing down Dame Street towards Trinity would be lovely and would make a great fast finishing chute.

If they rerouted the last few km straight on at Nutley Lane to Stephen's Green and on to Aungier Street coming round Dame St it wouldn't even need huge course revisions I reckon.

Kissy Lips

RayCun wrote: »

I wonder how long it will be before some form of two-tier entry is introduced? A certain number of places set aside for people with qualifying times, or club members?

When it moves from selling out in 7 months to 5 days.

RayCun

Kissy Lips wrote: »

When it moves from selling out in 7 months to 5 days.

Even with all the time people have to enter, I'd guess there will be plenty of people in August/September complaining that entries are closed. And some of them will be club runners, and so there'll be some clubs complaining that they should be able to enter people in the national championships closer to race day.

robinph

The Dublin course doesn't do too bad for scenery but the runners would hardly ever notice. The previous edition running around Trinity or up O'Connell Street were better alright, and way back when it finished on O'Connell Street would be a great now with the bigger numbers.

Of all the tourist sites you go past in London though you probably only notice Cutty Sark and Tower Bridge. Easy to miss Big Ben and the Palace when running, although they do result in some great photos afterwards. The big difference with London though is the mostly fully lined route all the way round with people shouting at you.

For Dublin to get bigger they would need to have a longer start before going around any corners and a much bigger area for assembly at the start and dealing with the baggage drops. The size of the road in London and Dublin isn't that different as a road is a road, what allows for the bigger capacity is that they completely take over Blackheath and a large chunk of Greenwich park for the start and then the Queen lets them shut down her driveway and parks out the front and that gives all the extra space. Unless Dublin did their start and finish in the middle of Phoenix Park there just isn't the space, O'Connell Street possibly but would require the shutting down the whole area around as well.

Kissy Lips

RayCun wrote: »

Even with all the time people have to enter, I'd guess there will be plenty of people in August/September complaining that entries are closed. And some of them will be club runners, and so there'll be some clubs complaining that they should be able to enter people in the national championships closer to race day.

That should be a thing alright, would be a shame to turn away genuine late entrants to the national champs. Very tough to plan marathon readiness.

bucketybuck

Kissy Lips wrote: »

That should be a thing alright, would be a shame to turn away genuine late entrants to the national champs. Very tough to plan marathon readiness.

How many people are you talking about there? I have genuinely no idea by the way, but when it comes to competitive club runners who have genuine national title aspirations I would imagine you can't be talking many people at all?

average_runner

I think the finish and start should be at iconic parts of Dublin, so much history in Dublin.

This is a bit controversial, but maybe finish it in Croke Park or Aviva Stadium, just to give it that grand stand finish or even Santry if needs be.

RayCun

bucketybuck wrote: »

How many people are you talking about there? I have genuinely no idea by the way, but when it comes to competitive club runners who have genuine national title aspirations I would imagine you can't be talking many people at all?

I'm not so much thinking of the people going for the overall win, but the people going on club teams. The M50 teams and women's senior teams that won national medals, for example, most of their members ran over 3 hours (one of them posts on here ). Add in county medals and there are a lot of people who are in the mix.

bucketybuck

RayCun wrote: »

I'm not so much thinking of the people going for the overall win, but the people going on club teams. The M50 teams and women's senior teams that won national medals, for example, most of their members ran over 3 hours (one of them posts on here ). Add in county medals and there are a lot of people who are in the mix.

How many though? Dozens or hundreds?

I'm only asking from the context of a race with 20000 people, I would imagine the organisers would surely have leeway to add a few late entries at their discretion? I bet they can give elite athletes wildcard entries, why not allow certain exemptions for recognised club runners as well?

Assuming there aren't thousands of them of course...

average_runner

bucketybuck wrote: »

How many though? Dozens or hundreds?

I'm only asking from the context of a race with 20000 people, I would imagine the organisers would surely have leeway to add a few late entries at their discretion? I bet they can give elite athletes wildcard entries, why not allow certain exemptions for recognised club runners as well?

Assuming there aren't thousands of them of course...

Why can't the club runners not just enter before it closes?
Most club runners would have their next 4 - 6 months planned out especially if a marathon is there

RayCun

Hundreds. Not hundreds who are going to win a medal, but hundreds who would consider themselves in contention. And even those who aren't in serious contention could argue that as AAI members they should be able to enter the national championship.

Most of them will enter on time of course. But the earlier entries close, the more complaints there will be from people who don't get a place, and the AAI members have some grounds for complaint.

Murph_D

RayCun wrote: »

I'm not so much thinking of the people going for the overall win, but the people going on club teams. The M50 teams and women's senior teams that won national medals, for example, most of their members ran over 3 hours (one of them posts on here ). Add in county medals and there are a lot of people who are in the mix.

Maybe transferrable entry for club members? Ie Club does mass entry in advance with unnamed runners, teams to be determined closer to the date?

Kissy Lips

bucketybuck wrote: »

How many people are you talking about there? I have genuinely no idea by the way, but when it comes to competitive club runners who have genuine national title aspirations I would imagine you can't be talking many people at all?

Very few, wouldn't even be a consideration since you get, what 20% now show on the day. Plenty of room for extra club runners.

theyoungchap

My only gripe with the Dublin marathon organisation (it is a fantastic event, the crowd are absolutely epic the whole way) is that of the 20k entries, maybe 1k of them don't do the race for a variety of reasons (injuries, etc).

Those entries should be allowed to be re-assigned. I have registered but am not confident on the injury front, if I don't make it somebody else should be able to take my place instead.

I also would love to see the finish around Trinity College, I remember going down Westland Row and coming down Pearse Street up Nassau Street to the absolute cauldron of noise around there. It was absolutely fantastic. Could a finish around Stephen's Green be an option? Maybe up Merrion Square, Nassau Street and up Kildare Street to the finish on Stephens Green. The finish misses that cauldron of noise.

RayCun

All races expect that a certain amount of entrants won't turn up, I think it's built in to their event plan.

robinph

If a race is selling 20000 entries they will have negotiated with the various authorities that they will have about 17000 turn up and participate and have the supplies of water/ goodie bags/ medals based on that number. Which will be why if 17500 tun up they will run out. It is apparently a very consistent a drop out rate among all race sizes and types over the years.

theyoungchap

But it is a pity that people who want to enter can't join a waiting list and just keep training until people pull out.

Murph_D

theyoungchap wrote: »

But it is a pity that people who want to enter can't join a waiting list and just keep training until people pull out.

Much simpler to just give people plenty of time to enter and close entries when full - ie. what they do now. People who want to enter should just enter - but on time.

sideswipe

Never seen the complaints about the race being full happen before the race is actually full before:D

Chivito550

average_runner wrote: »

I think the finish and start should be at iconic parts of Dublin, so much history in Dublin.

This is a bit controversial, but maybe finish it in Croke Park or Aviva Stadium, just to give it that grand stand finish or even Santry if needs be.

No way. They do this in Melbourne at the MCG and it is absolutely sh1te!

Worst marathon I've ever seen by the way. It takes in none of the CBD, except a tiny bit of Flinders Street at the start and the end, and most people in the city have no idea it is even going on. It covers just a few roads in an out and back format, along with Albert Park (which is a nice area). It takes in absolutely none of the Northside, which is where all the culture and charming streets and districts are. Tram tracks could be an excuse, but there are tram tracks on some of the streets they do actually use.

Worst of all, they start the marathon at 7am, to get it over and done with as quickly as they can, and there are bugger all people supporting on the course. Sonia O'Sullivan had a rant about in the Irish Times last year I recall.

Here's the map:

http://melbournemarathon.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/MM17-Course-Map-A4.pdf

Dublin's route looks a bit uninspiring to be honest (though better than what Melbourne offers), but we as people, continue to not push our government to build an underground network (we will always remain a car dependent society regrettably). If we had an underground, you could shut down the centre of the city for a marathon, but without such first world transport systems (that the rest of Europe enjoys and assumes to be a normal part of a functioning city), we can't go shutting down areas where the LUAS and buses run.

zico10

I've read enough to panic buy an entry: That was the easy part.
Bold prediction of a 2:32:59 finishing time; that'll be the hard part.

squinn2912

Just signed up! Thanks for the warning!! Crazy feeling planning the next one just into taper!

theyoungchap

Chivito550 wrote: »

Dublin's route looks a bit uninspiring to be honest (though better than what Melbourne offers), but we as people, continue to not push our government to build an underground network (we will always remain a car dependent society regrettably). If we had an underground, you could shut down the centre of the city for a marathon, but without such first world transport systems (that the rest of Europe enjoys and assumes to be a normal part of a functioning city), we can't go shutting down areas where the LUAS and buses run.

And the hundreds of billions, for a low-density city like Dublin, are going to come from where to build this underground network? We either go up or out, unfortunately in Dublin we've decided to go out. Don't want to move the discussion away from the point of the thread, but it is not just a case of "pushing" the government. Over half of the journeys into Dublin happen by public transport.

We can alter the route to avoid the Luas, and have a better finishing point than we currently do. It just involves a bit of thought.

Chivito550

theyoungchap wrote: »

And the hundreds of billions, for a low-density city like Dublin, are going to come from where to build this underground network? We either go up or out, unfortunately in Dublin we've decided to go out. Don't want to move the discussion away from the point of the thread, but it is not just a case of "pushing" the government. Over half of the journeys into Dublin happen by public transport.

We can alter the route to avoid the Luas, and have a better finishing point than we currently do. It just involves a bit of thought.

It is a myth that Dublin is a low density city.

http://irishcycle.com/2015/11/03/is-dublin-a-low-density-city/

You say over half the journeys into Dublin happen by public transport. Well maybe if we had more reliable and quick methods of getting into the city centre, that number could be increased considerably. As things stand, it is about 20-30 mins quicker for me to walk 21 minutes to the LUAS to get to work in the city centre, than it is to walk 3 minutes to my local bus and get that into work. I'm lucky that I live just about within walking distance of the LUAS, and that I'm fit and a fast walker. Others are not so lucky in these regards, and are stuck with miserable unreliable bus journeys, or bumper to bumper car trips.

If we actually invested in rail, like every other major European city our size, it would be a hell of a lot easier to get around, it would encourage people to leave their car behind, make the city cleaner and more vibrant, and you could easier close major city centre roads for big events like the Dublin Marathon.

theyoungchap

Well, that depends on where you get your news. Comparisons to Amsterdam is not valid - they built undergrounds, tram's, etc when labour was cheap. We don't have that luxury.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/dublin-s-development-plan-short-on-density-1.2867636

It is not just about city centre though, plenty of people work in the suburbs and have no option but to use a car.

But we shouldn't ruin a thread about the Dublin marathon by pulling the thread away from the issue. I have registered and can't wait for the torture to begin!

Chivito550

theyoungchap wrote: »

Well, that depends on where you get your news. Comparisons to Amsterdam is not valid - they built undergrounds, tram's, etc when labour was cheap. We don't have that luxury.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/dublin-s-development-plan-short-on-density-1.2867636

It is not just about city centre though, plenty of people work in the suburbs and have no option but to use a car.

But we shouldn't ruin a thread about the Dublin marathon by pulling the thread away from the issue. I have registered and can't wait for the torture to begin!

Hundreds of billions by the way? Nice bit of dramaticism there. The metro from Sandyford to Swords will cost 3 billion. And it will more than pay itself back in terms of economic benefits. That's the difference between an investment and a cost.

So you think we should continue as we are, all the while the population explodes, with nowhere to fit these extra cars on our already cramped roads?

Remember, we have a housing crisis here, and investment in proper public transport (metro, DART Underground, LUAS extensions etc) will encourage developers to build in new areas with easy links to the city centre. Housing and infrastructure go hand in hand. Unfortunately in this country, we lack joined up thinking.

When the areas around Cherrywood are developed, nobody from Balally and inwards will be able to fit on the low capacity LUAS. It will be a disaster. Public transport needs to grow with housing.

This isn’t really all that off topic though. People are moaning about how boring the route is. I’m giving a very valid reason for why that route is so unremarkable.

Also Amsterdam are in the process of building a new metro line. So much for cheap labor.

theyoungchap

Chivito550 wrote: »

Hundreds of billions by the way? Nice bit of dramaticism there. The metro from Sandyford to Swords will cost 3 billion. And it will more than pay itself back in terms of economic benefits. That's the difference between an investment and a cost.

That is a line, not a network. If people talk about a network, it will involve a lot of those billions. You are also forgetting that half of that line is already built. If we needed to build the whole way from Swords to Sandyford, you can bet your bottom dollar we'd be well into 10-15bn. And these are just estimates, which never go down. Look at Crossrail if you want to see how inaccurate costings are, especially when you are digging underground.

Chivito550 wrote: »

So you think we should continue as we are, all the while the population explodes, with nowhere to fit these extra cars on our already cramped roads?

No - we need to go up in the city centre, the more people who can live in the city centre, especially young people, takes a huge amount of pressure off the suburbs and transport networks.

Getting back to the topic, where do people think the marathon route should go? Most cities have an unremarkable section of their marathon.

Chivito550

theyoungchap wrote: »

That is a line, not a network. If people talk about a network, it will involve a lot of those billions. You are also forgetting that half of that line is already built.



No - we need to go up in the city centre, the more people who can live in the city centre, especially young people, takes a huge amount of pressure off the suburbs and transport networks.

Getting back to the topic, where do people think the marathon route should go? Most cities have an unremarkable section of their marathon.

Amsterdam are still expanding their metro network, so the cheap labour argument is flawed.

You invest bit by bit, like our motorway network. Nobody is argueing that we should be building 5 metro lines all at once. Build the metro from Sandyford to Swords first. People will see how beneficial it will be. Then we keep chipping away at it, constantly having a new line/ extension under construction. That's how most cities work. We did that very well with our motorway network, and we could do it with our rail, if there was political will.

Regarding the marathon, they should be taking in more parts of the northside.

theyoungchap

Chivito550 wrote: »

Amsterdam are still expanding their metro network, so the cheap labour argument is flawed.

You invest bit by bit, like our motorway network. Nobody is argueing that we should be building 5 metro lines all at once. Build the metro from Sandyford to Swords first. People will see how beneficial it will be. Then we keep chipping away at it, constantly having a new line/ extension under construction. That's how most cities work. We did that very well with our motorway network, and we could do it with our rail, if there was political will.

Regarding the marathon, they should be taking in more parts of the northside.

I agree we should be investing bit-by-bit. But 3bn for 1 line - our entire HSE costs 20bn to run.

I would also like to see something like an proper escrow account (or maybe use the 13bn we already have in the Apple one! ) which we could build something with during the next downturn. It would provide an economic stimulus at such a time.

I think first we need to increase density in city, take the pressure off the roads/buses/trains at least a little bit, then see where we are at.

theyoungchap

On the marathon, I would absolutely love if it did not go up Roebuck Road - I absolutely hate that part of the route. It is 1-day of disturbance though people, on a bank holiday weekend, for a few hours. I don't think it is the armageddon it is made out to be if we stopped the city a bit more for the day.