Dublin marathon to sell out in "few days"

Itziger

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Every! Single!! Year!!! The!!! Same!!! Bloody!!! Moaning!!!

Is it really so hard to understand?

The organisers decided the course is suitable for 17-18000 runner and they know that if they sell 20000 tickets, 17-18 will turn up. Perfect.

The "extra" entries are not lost. That's in the plan. If 20k turned up, they're in trouble.

Also, the money from the unused entries don't just disappear into the organisers' pockets. They are used to pay for the cost of putting on the race itself.

Therefore, if they allowed transfers, then a) they'd only sell 18k entries rather than 20k and b) the price per entry would go up by 10% because they still need the same amount of money coming in to pay for the costs. Do you really think that would be preferable?

It's not bloody rocket science!

That's all very well if 17 0r 18,000 show up. I'd like to see the final numbers though. No-one said it was rocket science and most people aren't moaning. So I'm not sure you deserve that high moral ground you're claiming there. In my most recent marathon the organisers claimed a 20,000 sell out (unless I'm greatly mistaken they were talking of that number). There were just under 15,000 finishers. 
Would it really be that difficult to run a system whereby runner A who's bought an early bird entry for say 55 euro and subsequently picks up an injury can release the number so that runner B can now snap it up at the higher price of 75 euro?
I understand that this entails work for organisers but it seems a bit fairer than the 55 euro originally paid going to a 'fund'.
We're discussing how these things work on this thread and looking at possible alternatives.

theyoungchap

Itzger that is the point that people are missing. I'd say everyone agrees that this is a great event, and I don't think anybody is suggesting otherwise.
It is a discussion board after all and everyone wants the event to maximise its potential!

TFBubendorfer

What moral high ground? I'm not claiming any superiority, moral or otherwise. I'm pointing out the fact that allowing transfers would not actually benefit the majority of runner, they'd just end up paying more for the exact same race.

Figures for DCM have been posted in a thread very recently. The non-starter rate has been very consistent and is quite predictable.

But I do admit, reading the exact same complaints year after year after year is starting to annoy me.

Itziger

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

What moral high ground? I'm not claiming any superiority, moral or otherwise. I'm pointing out the fact that allowing transfers would not actually benefit the majority of runner, they'd just end up paying more for the exact same race.

Figures for DCM have been posted in a thread very recently. The non-starter rate has been very consistent and is quite predictable.

But I do admit, reading the exact same complaints year after year after year is starting to annoy me.

I for one haven't made any complaints. I haven't missed out on Dublin. I've never run it and have no real plans to do so. I suggested a system (no bloody idea if it could work or not) whereby a transfer of sorts could benefit runners and organisers.
I do also get annoyed by people saying, "Oh, that's awful. I wanted to do Dublin..... I had no idea it was going to sell out" Get your act together mate.
But I do think there might be a halfway house that wouldn't be too difficult to set up.

Every!! Single!! Year!! The!! Same!! Refusal!!! To!!! Consider!!! Transfers!!!!
See what I did there?

RayCun

In Dublin marathon last year, when additional places were added because of the huge demand and outcry at the race selling out early, bringing the total entry up to 20,000, there were just over 16,000 runners on the day.

I don't think the marathon would even be allowed sell 20,000 entries if there was a possibility that close to 20,000 people would show up. Forget the money bit, there is a limit to how many people will be allowed on the course and in the start/finish area

TFBubendorfer

Itziger wrote: »

I for one haven't made any complaints.

And why do you think I was talking about you?

Itziger wrote:

Every!! Single!! Year!! The!! Same!! Refusal!!! To!!! Consider!!! Transfers!!!!
See what I did there?

How many races have you run that actually allow transfers? Maybe it works differently in Luxembourg but in Ireland I must have run somewhere around 250 races over the years and I vaguely remember 1 of them allowing transfers. Maybe it was 2 or even 3, but it's very much the exception, not the general rule.

I'm pretty sure most people complaining about the non-transfer rule aren't regular runners but will be running DCM to get it off the bucket list. There's nothing wrong with that, I started running with the exact same mindset, but complaining about a rule mostly out of ignorance is what it is.

runrun2

I'd like to see transfers or deferrals as well, people who bought a ticket and cant make it are probably going to unload it anyway so why not allow it to happen legally? You don't have to be out to make a profit but if you get injured or something serious comes up then 90 quid is better in your pocket than nothing.


Its only a matter of time before they're going to have to give in and alter the course so it can accommodate more people and start bringing deferrals into the loop. Also some live coverage of the race as well.


God when I think of the potential this marathon has after changing it to the Sunday and the reception it has received. A few more tweaks and it could be a really nice national event for the country to be proud of.

ultrapercy

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Every! Single!! Year!!! The!!! Same!!! Bloody!!! Moaning!!!

Is it really so hard to understand?

The organisers decided the course is suitable for 17-18000 runner and they know that if they sell 20000 tickets, 17-18 will turn up. Perfect.

The "extra" entries are not lost. That's in the plan. If 20k turned up, they're in trouble.

Also, the money from the unused entries don't just disappear into the organisers' pockets. They are used to pay for the cost of putting on the race itself.

Therefore, if they allowed transfers, then a) they'd only sell 18k entries rather than 20k and b) the price per entry would go up by 10% because they still need the same amount of money coming in to pay for the costs. Do you really think that would be preferable?

It's not bloody rocket science!

Well is a business modle designed to gouge 3 to 5 thousand people out of 70 to 90 euros ethical. Just because other races do it doesnt make it right. Marathon training is an attritional game and when the race sells out so far in advance entering is a gamble. Some system of transfer or deferal even if its an option to pay for such would portray a better image I believe. The Dublin Marathon is a fantastic and continously improving event and Im sure this problem will also be addressed in time.

average_runner

runrun2 wrote: »

I'd like to see transfers or deferrals as well, people who bought a ticket and cant make it are probably going to unload it anyway so why not allow it to happen legally? You don't have to be out to make a profit but if you get injured or something serious comes up then 90 quid is better in your pocket than nothing.


Its only a matter of time before they're going to have to give in and alter the course so it can accommodate more people and start bringing deferrals into the loop. Also some live coverage of the race as well.


God when I think of the potential this marathon has after changing it to the Sunday and the reception it has received. A few more tweaks and it could be a really nice national event for the country to be proud of.

Why will they have to bring it in? Most big marathons dont have it

Why tv coverage? Not exactly any money in it for a tv station

RayCun

The marathon committee are not sitting in a room saying "oh, they want a route that takes more people and tv coverage, do they? Well feck them, we want to keep things exactly as they are!"

ultrapercy

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

And why do you think I was talking about you?



How many races have you run that actually allow transfers? Maybe it works differently in Luxembourg but in Ireland I must have run somewhere around 250 races over the years and I vaguely remember 1 of them allowing transfers. Maybe it was 2 or even 3, but it's very much the exception, not the general rule.

I'm pretty sure most people complaining about the non-transfer rule aren't regular runners but will be running DCM to get it off the bucket list. There's nothing wrong with that, I started running with the exact same mindset, but complaining about a rule mostly out of ignorance is what it is.

BUT how many races sell out 6 months in advance?

RayCun

3000 people, 80 euro each.

If they don't "gouge" the entry fee out of those people, where will they make up the extra money?

How about they allow cancellations and transfers, but increase the entry fee by 10 euro for everyone?

Murph_D

RayCun wrote: »

3000 people, 80 euro each.

If they don't "gouge" the entry fee out of those people, where will they make up the extra money?

How about they allow cancellations and transfers, but increase the entry fee by 10 euro for everyone?

I'm sure an insurance company would be happy to design a product that refunds a runner in the event of having to drop out. The whole process could even be conducted completely separate from the DCM registration machine.

But how much would they charge, that's the question, and how many hoops would you have to jump through to prove that you're not just some lazy chancer who hasn't trained?

But why should I care? I'm doing NYC this year. ($358, no transfers, no refunds).

RayCun

Some marathons do have cancellation insurance. Pay an extra tenner when you sign up and you can get a refund, up to a certain date.

Murph_D

RayCun wrote: »

Some marathons do have cancellation insurance. Pay an extra tenner when you sign up and you can get a refund, up to a certain date.

Indeed - you can buy this for the NYC marathon for 8 bucks - but only if you're a US resident.

https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a20865202/new-york-road-runners-offers-race-entry-insurance-for-athletes/

runrun2

average_runner wrote: »

Why will they have to bring it in? Most big marathons dont have it

Why tv coverage? Not exactly any money in it for a tv station

There's plenty of potential in this race to turn it into something a lot bigger and better than it is now.
I'm sure there's plenty of options there for the department of Sport and Tourism to look into cutting a deal with the national broadcaster.


Advertisement, more sponsorship from bigger companies, better prize money, inviting better elites...the list is endless.


Nobody ever envisaged making a small change to a Sunday would result in a sell out 5 months before the event.


The race deferral is definitely something that I reckon they will eventually have to bring in without a doubt. Making something legal rather than watching the tickets exchanged is just common sense, they will gain more respect from a move like that than appearing to be riding on an accidental bit of fortune with the day change.


Theres not one part of me that thinks thats fair, people booking tickets not knowing what way their own fortune will be in a few months. Even if they are too lazy so what, its still 90 quid out of pocket so why not sell it to the eager beaver who trained. Better in your pocket than DCM.

average_runner

runrun2 wrote: »

There's plenty of potential in this race to turn it into something a lot bigger and better than it is now.
I'm sure there's plenty of options there for the department of Sport and Tourism to look into cutting a deal with the national broadcaster.


Advertisement, more sponsorship from bigger companies, better prize money, inviting better elites...the list is endless.


Nobody ever envisaged making a small change to a Sunday would result in a sell out 5 months before the event.


The race deferral is definitely something that I reckon they will eventually have to bring in without a doubt. Making something legal rather than watching the tickets exchanged is just common sense, they will gain more respect from a move like that than appearing to be riding on an accidental bit of fortune with the day change.


Theres not one part of me that thinks thats fair, people booking tickets not knowing what way their own fortune will be in a few months. Even if they are too lazy so what, its still 90 quid out of pocket so why not sell it to the eager beaver who trained. Better in your pocket than DCM.

Everyone knew the Sunday change would be massive even the organisers, but the council was the problem.

If you look at where the better elites go, dublin is at a big disadvantage as its not a fast course. To match the prize money they would need to increase the fee to 180 at least.

The dublin policy is in line with alot of the big marathons.

runrun2

average_runner wrote: »

Everyone knew the Sunday change would be massive even the organisers, but the council was the problem.

If you look at where the better elites go, dublin is at a big disadvantage as its not a fast course. To match the prize money they would need to increase the fee to 180 at least.

The dublin policy is in line with alot of the big marathons.

Nobody knew, if they did then it would've been changed years ago by hook or by crook long before they came to a stage of having no sponsor. The council don't run the country or sports.


It might be a big disadvantage now but who says the course has to stay the same?


Increasing the fee, not necessarily so...adding alternative packages, luring tourists in, clever advertising, sponsorship from companies with money to spare. All incremental steps, even if they do have to increase fee it would be in line with it becoming a more ''prestigious'' event to take part in.


Nobody seems to care about parting with big bucks for other other big marathons.


Again, leaving the option there for deferrals.


Look what the tourist board has done with the ''Wild Atlantic Way'' advertising, every bloody rock on the west coast is part of the Wild Atlantic Way but its working. They are drawing in huge numbers of people.


I also think Leo is the man who could propel this forward, with his interest in running etc I'm sure he could do something for the sport.

ultrapercy

RayCun wrote: »

3000 people, 80 euro each.

If they don't "gouge" the entry fee out of those people, where will they make up the extra money?

How about they allow cancellations and transfers, but increase the entry fee by 10 euro for everyone?

I dont know where they will get the money from Ray its not my business to know. What I do know is that it isnt right and the fact that other races also adopt this practice doesnt make it right. Itscthe only business I know pf that has no vancellation option what so ever.

average_runner

runrun2 wrote: »

Nobody knew, if they did then it would've been changed years ago by hook or by crook long before they came to a stage of having no sponsor. The council don't run the country or sports.


It might be a big disadvantage now but who says the course has to stay the same?


Increasing the fee, not necessarily so...adding alternative packages, luring tourists in, clever advertising, sponsorship from companies with money to spare. All incremental steps, even if they do have to increase fee it would be in line with it becoming a more ''prestigious'' event to take part in.


Nobody seems to care about parting with big bucks for other other big marathons.


Again, leaving the option there for deferrals.


Look what the tourist board has done with the ''Wild Atlantic Way'' advertising, every bloody rock on the west coast is part of the Wild Atlantic Way but its working. They are drawing in huge numbers of people.


I also think Leo is the man who could propel this forward, with his interest in running etc I'm sure he could do something for the sport.

If you search through previous post over the years, it was the council that was against the sunday move for years, eventually the council gave in.

You can change the course but you cant change dublin, so you wont get a fast course within the city.

runrun2

average_runner wrote: »

If you search through previous post over the years, it was the council that was against the sunday move for years, eventually the council gave in.

You can change the course but you cant change dublin, so you wont get a fast course within the city.

Everyone is still in shock that this sold out with 5 months to go, trust me nobody knew that changing the day would have this effect. You can use your council argument all day long but nobody knew this would happen.



Staggered starts, in 2014 they managed to get 41,000 women lined up for the women's mini marathon in Dublin. Over 30,000 on average per year. Whats so different about the marathon?





Tell me how wide are the roads in London compared to the size of the crowd in the race?


Have you ever looked at the crowds at the start of the Great North Run?

TFBubendorfer

runrun2 wrote: »

Everyone is still in shock that this sold out with 5 months to go, trust me nobody knew that changing the day would have this effect. You can use your council argument all day long but nobody knew this would happen.



Staggered starts, in 2014 they managed to get 41,000 women lined up for the women's mini marathon in Dublin. Over 30,000 on average per year. Whats so different about the marathon?





Tell me how wide are the roads in London compared to the size of the crowd in the race?


Have you ever looked at the crowds at the start of the Great North Run?

The races you mention are actually a warning sign for DCM not to allow that many runners on the course.

It takes over 30 minutes for the runners of the Great North Run to cross the start line.

The women's mini marathon is not a race for the majority of runners. A colleague of mine just did it and said that for 4 km they were huddled together like penguins and weren't able to run. I sure would not want that in DCM.

And you seem to have failed to notice that they have been using staggered starts in Dublin for years. It was 4 waves last year, up from 3 waves in previous years.

The move to Sunday was always going to bring a jump in the numbers. Nobody was shocked by that. And it was totally predictable that this year it would sell out earlier then last year. It's equally predictable that it will sell out earlier next year, unless something changes drastically.



If you want to do something constructive, start lobbying the council and other authorities to start supporting the marathon instead of making a mint from all the charges they demand (road closure, Garda, ... and from what I've heard the costs for the road side barriers are absolutely astronomical). The marathon is bringing a massive amount of money into the local economy every year, it would be great if the authorities tried to support the event rather than milk it and putting obstacles in its way.

harr

I am not a runner but a spectator , my wife has run various marathons and I have accompanied friends who run to various city’s around Europe.
I think Dublin is one of the few cities where you wouldn’t even know the marathon was talking place. The only location you would know anything is going on is start and finish line or the suburbs.
Any where else in Dublin City centre you wouldn’t have a clue in other city’s its celebrated with a lot more fan fare and various events to include the marathon and most make it a city wide carnival kind of event.

runrun2

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

The races you mention are actually a warning sign for DCM not to allow that many runners on the course.

It takes over 30 minutes for the runners of the Great North Run to cross the start line.

The women's mini marathon is not a race for the majority of runners. A colleague of mine just did it and said that for 4 km they were huddled together like penguins and weren't able to run. I sure would not want that in DCM.

And you seem to have failed to notice that they have been using staggered starts in Dublin for years. It was 4 waves last year, up from 3 waves in previous years.

The move to Sunday was always going to bring a jump in the numbers. Nobody was shocked by that. And it was totally predictable that this year it would sell out earlier then last year. It's equally predictable that it will sell out earlier next year, unless something changes drastically.



If you want to do something constructive, start lobbying the council and other authorities to start supporting the marathon instead of making a mint from all the charges they demand (road closure, Garda, ... and from what I've heard the costs for the road side barriers are absolutely astronomical). The marathon is bringing a massive amount of money into the local economy every year, it would be great if the authorities tried to support the event rather than milk it and putting obstacles in its way.

The races I mention are an example that it is very possible to increase the numbers and also possible to attract a very elite field through sponsorship and advertisement and generally great support to the sports council in Britain.


As for your friend in the womens mini marathon, herself and the rest of the 'penguins' were not in pursuit of running anything since she would've been up the front in the sectioned off area for anyone who can jog under 60s minutes. Anyone behind that line is not in it for a run, maybe in it for a waddle?

Anyone under 60 minutes is running straight away with maybe a 3 second delay going around the first bend, absolutely loads of room for running. If you're really serious about it then you dont even have that delay, you're out of the blocks straight away.



I havnt failed to notice anything, increased numbers of staggered starts. Follow the way other big marathons start, you know all about that.



I cant take you or the other guy seriously when you say everyone knew the numbers would jump. This very thread was started here warning people that DCM is about to sell out, whats that all about I wonder because as far as you're concerned everyone knows!


If you want to do something constructive maybe you could lobby the council since you have so much to say about the situation in your final paragraph.

ThePiedPiper

We’re getting fleeced with the entry price of DCM at €93. Someone else mentioned NYC at $370, and that most major marathons are a similar price to DCM. Seriously, we can’t be calling Dublin a major marathon, it doesn’t come close. It’s got a decent reputation that is mostly due to being the ‘friendly marathon’. So, we’re good supporters. That’s the major selling point. Personally, I don’t think there’s anything friendly about coughing up €93 for the pleasure. Fair enough, as TFB said above, it’s not the organizers making money, but other stakeholders. Bad form in my opinion.

I did a bit of research on various alternative options for autumn. Only Munich came close to the cost of Dublin. Amsterdam, Venice, Florence, Lisbon, Porto, loads others all in €50-€70 bracket, and with a bit more to offer than being good craic.

TFBubendorfer

runrun2 wrote: »

I cant take you or the other guy seriously when you say everyone knew the numbers would jump. This very thread was started here warning people that DCM is about to sell out, whats that all about I wonder because as far as you're concerned everyone knows!


If you want to do something constructive maybe you could lobby the council since you have so much to say about the situation in your final paragraph.

The numbers didn't jump this year. They sold the same numbers of entries as last year. And if you did a search you'd see a very similar post last year, warning that it was about to sell out. So how could anyone possibly have been shocked by the fact that it did so again?

runrun2

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

The numbers didn't jump this year. They sold the same numbers of entries as last year. And if you did a search you'd see a very similar post last year, warning that it was about to sell out. So how could anyone possibly have been shocked by the fact that it did so again?

Come on TFB, you're better than this.

robinph

Have entered some races where there is the option of paying extra for insurance in the event of you dropping out. Can't remember how much extra it was or what criteria they might have for being able to make a claim though.

Have had to miss a few races, but have never felt that the event owes me anything in return for my failure to be able to turn up on the race day.

devilabit

average_runner wrote: »

Your heart wasn't that set on it, otherwise you would of done your research and entered earlier!

I have been training since the start of February but since I have other health issues which compromise my training I dont really know for a number of months if my body will allow me to increase my training load enough in order to complete a marathon. I for one have better things to be doing than keeping an eye on Facebook etc.

It would be better if a certain amount of entries were only released come 1-2 months out from the marathon so that people could make an informed decision but that doesnt work with the commercial reality of organising a large "event". Im not sure it makes sense that a marathon sells out even before the majority of people start their training.

theyoungchap

I think what people are missing here, is that if you forget about the looking down your nose on people like the poster above who didn't sign up.
Everybody agrees that DCM is a great event, it is the only marathon I have ran so I can't compare it London, etc. But as a supporter who has attended London, the atmosphere in Dublin is epic.
All anybody is trying to do is make it more accessible for more people, it is hardly a crime to ask if insurance/systems/etc could be added to make this possible?
If 3-4k people drop out, I can guarantee you one thing, there are probably hundreds of people running on somebody else's badge. That is the effect of the inflexible registration policy, and DCM can ignore it or do something about it. It shouldn't be done, but tell people they can't do something and they will find a way.
For what its worth, I never heard about this "annual" issue before this year! Unlike the pubs being open on Good Friday / St. Patricks Day drunkenness / split Dublin footballers in two / etc.