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A Limerick I can't recognise

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  • 23-05-2018 2:44pm
    #1
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭


    I don't suppose any old Limerickians on here were around in the early 19th century?!

    Anyway I have a question(s) I'll throw out there relating to a place once called Gallows Green somewhere near Limerick city. I was following the story of the Colleen Bawn and apparently that is where her murderers were executed. I have no idea where it might be in modern terms. The most helpful link I came across was this one:
    http://www.libraryireland.com/topog/L/Limerick-Barracks.php

    Do any people on here recognise where any of the following might have been in 2018 terms?
    • Gallows Green (Gallows hill occurred to me but sounds too far away)
    • Water Tank 50ft over the highest point in the city and 72ft over the river
    • Cromwell's fort (either of two mentioned, or both ideally)
    • 'new line of road along the Shannon on the Clare side' (one of the Strands perhaps?)
    • Artillery barrack in Irishtown
    • Limerick Institution
    • Swinbourne Hotel

    The only places mentioned I recognise with my 21st century eyes is the description at the end of the article of the Hanging Gardens, which is being redeveloped on Henry St. opposite the Garda Station, and I am also assuming 'the new barrack outside of Newtown Pery' is today's Sarsfield barracks.

    Any clue or guess at all to the bullet points above would be very helpful.


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    #2
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Sorry answering some of my own questions here - examined the oldest OSI map I could find.

    I have traced the Cromwellian fort and gas tanks to Fairview Crescent in Garryowen. 99% sure.
    I suspect the new line in Clare might be New Road in Thomondgate.
    I also suspect the Artillery barrack in Irishtown might be Cathedral Court.
    But could be wrong on those.


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    #3
    topcat72
    Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭topcat72


    Swinburn's Hotel was on Brunswick street ( Now Sarsfield Street)


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    #4
    killanena
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭killanena


    I'd be pretty surprised if anyone from the 19th century is still alive, let alone from Limerick!


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    #5
    testicles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭testicles


    This post has been deleted.


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    #6
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Thanks very much topcat. I think that just leaves me with the Limerick Institution - anybody ever heard of that?

    I now reckon from this link talking about old Garryowen -

    http://www.limerickcity.ie/media/garryowen%20by%20gerald%20griffin.pdf

    that the Gallows Green was in the Grattan St. area within the old extant walls, as this is where the old pre-famine map shows the 'rope walk' to be.

    If all these assumptions are correct, the Colleen Bawn murderers were tried on Bridge St. (so says the green plaque on the wall there opposite the CoI St. Mary's Cathedral) and brought perhaps over Baal's bridge to this location. This fits the legend - whether true or not - that the horses drawing Scanlan in the carriage stopped on the bridge and refused to budge under whips, such that he had to walk the remainder of the way to the gallows. I knew reading that, it wasn't Gallows Hill they were talking about.


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    #7
    MilfordBud
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭MilfordBud


    Looking at the OSI maps here and it seems you're correct on Fairview as the citing of the Cromwellian fort. Gallows green is beside the fair green, just west from the tank/Cromwell's fort. It's written in smaller text than Fair Green so it's hard to see.

    http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,558321,656619,11,7


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    #8
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Maybe I should have typed some smiley faces around that for you Killanena!
    I am relying on folk memories passed on or people that know their local history stuff.

    Brilliant guess there testicles - I do recall seeing a black and white photo of that before from the late 19th cent. http://www.memorylanelimerick.com/p789927387/h3B33E90C#h3b33e90c
    I wouldn't call that area classic Irishtown -but it's close enough to qualify.
    A much sharper guess than mine for sure.


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    #9
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    MilfordBud wrote: »
    Looking at the OSI maps here and it seems you're correct on Fairview as the citing of the Cromwellian fort. Gallows green is beside the fair green, just west from the tank/Cromwell's fort. It's written in smaller text than Fair Green so it's hard to see.

    http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,558321,656619,11,7

    Absolutely eagle-eyed MilfordBud. Again my guess was wrong.

    This makes sense to me as a place of execution. It is on the very edge of the then city and so mirrors what Tyburn was to old Westminster.


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    #10
    testicles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭testicles


    This post has been deleted.


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    #11
    MilfordBud
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭MilfordBud


    topper75 wrote: »
    Maybe I should have typed some smiley faces around that for you Killanena!
    I am relying on folk memories passed on or people that know their local history stuff.

    Brilliant guess there testicles - I do recall seeing a black and white photo of that before from the late 19th cent. http://www.memorylanelimerick.com/p789927387/h3B33E90C#h3b33e90c
    I wouldn't call that area classic Irishtown -but it's close enough to qualify.
    A much sharper guess than mine for sure.

    OSI again confirms the citing of Artillery Barracks on Mulgrave st.

    As a bit of a cartography nerd I'm enjoying this.


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    #12
    testicles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭testicles


    This post has been deleted.


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    #13
    testicles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭testicles


    This post has been deleted.


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    #14
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    testicles wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    That refers to an older time again, but just glancing through it - seems like a superb read.

    Going to read in entirety this evening. Thanks.


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    #15
    eyebrows63
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭eyebrows63


    I grew up in Garryowen and in the 70s we used to go up around the fairgreen .
    There was a tree in the grounds of the reservoir (the tanks ) which was known as the hangman’s tree . Have no idea what it’s like up there now


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    #16
    mitresize5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭mitresize5


    ten years after you in the 80's and lived in Garryowen for a while with the grandparents. We were always warned off that tree as well. Apparently it was where the last person in limerick was hanged. I think my grandparents were using is to keep me away from the area as it was a popular glue sniffing spot.

    Edit: Fairview rangers all weather football pitches are there now


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    #17
    garryowenglory
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭garryowenglory


    Your correct, the gallows was on this spot where Cromwell's fort was and later the reservoir tanks were ,there was hundreds hanged there ,the hangman's tree was an old fable ,there was a tree there in the spot as I remember it myself but of corce a gallows would have been erected for judicial hangings ,the same gallows was erected outside limerick prison for the same purpose of public executions ,so yea your detective work was spot on



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